Was Viggo the perfect Aragorn? [Archive]

indexerkevin

07-29-2002, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by King of Gondor.
H... Viggo is a great actor but he doesn't have the type face I immagined Aragorn to have. I thought Aragorn would have a more manly look to him than Viggo. So I voted he was ok. Maybe this is just me though.

I actually thought he was very close to how I imagined him. His face is weatherworn and Viggo seems to do a good job of depicting a man burdened down with cares. On the other hand physically, I don't think he is near tall enough. Various hints throughout the book show that when he stands to full height he is head and shoulders above even those normally viewed as tall, like Eomer. In my view that would make him, as well as the men of the Grey Company, on the order of 6' 6" or more. That would have been tough to accomplish in the movie.

I was dissapointed that they didn't give more of his background. The right point to do that was at the Prancing Pony, but that scene has countless minor and several major mongo digressions from the book and totally skips the "all that is gold does not glitter" scene which establishes who Aragorn is, and why Gandalf is late. Then to make up for that they invent the totally bogus "altar scene" at Rivendell. Of course this is not in the book and in fact Aragorn is out doing last minute errantry with the Sons of E and doesn't get back until the night before the Council. The altar scene makes him into some guy obsessed with morbid ancestor worship.

My other major dissappointment is how they totally skip all the great book parts of Aragorn as tracker and sign-reader. In the book at many important junctions, Aragorn carefully reads a number of signs and gives a reading as to what they all mean. An example is at Weathertop, but the most glaring change was at Parth Galen, where in the book he, Leg, and Gim get back and try to understand why a boat is missing and he figures out that Frodo set off on his own and Sam followed; the movie simply shows Frodo and Sam clearly visible getting to the other side. I understand this in terms of time, but a major "coolness aspect" of Aragorn is discarded. I hope at least a bit of his tracking ability will appear in TT, like when he finds a mallorn leaf discarded by Merry (or P?) as a sign.

Sorry to sound like a whiner. Overall I think the film is a masterpiece. I wished they had held a competition and let fanatics submit scripts. Instead they got the usual Hollywood cocaine-addled type of writers (one was PJ!) who can say with a straight face "oh no but it'll be really cool to have Arwen rescue Frodo;" and worse, actually believe that this would be "true to the book." In other words you have to be on drugs to think some of the changes are good, yet so grand is the scope and accomplishment of the movie I still love it!! Sound crazy...?

Mindy_O_Lluin

07-29-2002, 10:50 PM

Viggo is a beautiful Aragorn, but:

Too young,
Too pretty,
Too timid.

to go with my original vision of middle-aged, rugged, charismatic father figure.

:confused:

Lady Legolas

07-30-2002, 12:18 AM

Viggo did a really good job as Aragorn.He did Aragorn like I imagined it.

Ravenna

07-30-2002, 01:34 AM

I think Viggo did a fantastic job, especially considering how late he came to the part, visually he's very close to my own mental image of Aragorn.
I agree totally about the altar scene, its really the only bit of the movie where I can't come up with a rational explanation for why it's there.
As for isn't he cute- no way, but he does come across as an extremely powerful (ok and sexy) character. That may be my imagination going overboard, as I've always found Aragorn to be my favourite character in LOTR.

:o

indexerkevin

07-30-2002, 01:49 AM

Originally posted by Ravenna
..... I've always found Aragorn to be my favourite character in LOTR.

:o

Same for me! To me, LOTR is first and above all else a great love story, the most beautiful but yet in the end the most bittersweet of all time. Yet, as Elessar says on his deathbed, we (as Men) are not bound to the world forever (unlike the Elves). There is hope of their walking again together beyond the end of Arda.

Winch

07-30-2002, 07:50 PM

I'm not familiar with him as an actor but I thought he did a great job. At least he played him humble. I was afraid they would do a James Bond kind of character. Can't you just see Pierce Brosnan as Aragorn :confused:

indexerkevin

07-30-2002, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by Winch
I'm not familiar with him as an actor but I thought he did a great job. At least he played him humble....

Good point Winch. They did a good job making Aragorn humble, which is an aspect of his character.

I wanted to correct one point I made in my rabid long passage a few posts ago. It is incorrect when I said Aragorn was out doing erranty most of the time and only got back the night before the Council. But it is true that he wasn't at Rivendell most of the total time. I just reread the Rivendell chapters last night and here's the correct timing:

1) Aragorn stays at Rivendell for about 6-7 days, until Frodo is cured, has a couple of days to recover, then the Council is held.
2) Aragorn is not at the big banquet the night before the Council, but not because he's out on erranty, just that Sons of E return and he wants to check in with them; he appears later that night in the Fire Hall.
3) Council is held and it is agreed that at the minimum Frodo and Sam will go, but the choice of companions is delayed
4) about 2 months go by. This is when Aragorn spends time with others including Sons of E and other Elves of Riv. and the Dunedain scouring all the lands nearby for signs of Black Riders. He returns shortly before they are to set out.

Not that it matters (or anyones cares!), but when I make a mistake I like to correct it.

Talimon

07-30-2002, 10:49 PM

I wished they had held a competition and let fanatics submit scripts. Instead they got the usual Hollywood cocaine-addled type of writers (one was PJ!) who can say with a straight face "oh no but it'll be really cool to have Arwen rescue Frodo;" and worse, actually believe that this would be "true to the book."

You have no idea what you are talking about. To call the script of this movie "Hollywood cocaine addled" shows a lack of understanding as to what is "Hollywood". Quite frankly, very few of the changes (if any) have anything to do with keeping the movie "PC", as the good PJ-critics like to call it. All too often do I hear folks pointing to scenes as being "sell-outs" but not backing thier claims. Chief of these is Arwen. Both sides are at fault here for making the absurd presumption that Arwen's inclusion has anything to do with keeping a female presence. There is not one good example of this. Non of Arwens actions help beef up that presence.

The altar scene makes him into some guy obsessed with morbid ancestor worship.

I'm sorry you didn't like that scene. It was one of the best added scenes in my opinion. There was just so much symbolism in Boromir dropping Narsil and then Aragorn picking it up. It said leagues about both of thier charachters. Boromir dropping the sword shows his disillusion with Gondor and it's past, and Aragorn picking it up is yet another bit of foreshadowing as to his coming fate.

And there was really no better way to express Aragorns fear and insecurity then have Arwen speak it for him. It couldn't be done without dialogue, and it would deminish Aragorns nobility if he brought up the subject himself. I don't think him talking about it with Arwen, a woman he loves at that, deminishes anything, and makes him leagues more human.

Grond

07-31-2002, 03:47 AM

First, I thought that Viggo made the perfect Aragorn and did a superb job in portraying the role. I say this as a true loyalist to the works of JRRT.

I can't, however, let Talimon get away with some of his/her comments. I felt that Arwen's increased presence is an unnecessary intrusion on the intent of Tolkien's work and is being done solely for the purpose of having a big name female star on the billboard. (I'm not complaining too loudly though because I love Liv Tyler.) PJ has largely rewritten the history of TFOTR in his own image leaving much of the plot unblemished but much of the plot changed beyond recognition. The scene you spoke of at the altar was one that any self respecting Tolkien fan would have been revolted by. No such encounter occurred in the book and the leagues you speak of are leagues away from any work of JRRT. The sad thing is that it appears PJ intends to take us even further from the path of JRRT in the next film.

Having said all of this, I have been able to enjoy the film immensely simply by putting any thoughts of the written word away when I watch the film. I think PJ did a superlative job in catching the environment of Middle-earth and I like most of the characterizations... I just don't appreciate the large departures in plot.

indexerkevin

07-31-2002, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by Talimon
You have no idea what you are talking about. To call the script of this movie "Hollywood cocaine addled" shows a lack of understanding as to what is "Hollywood".

I apologize for this highly inflammatory comment, I should keep my low opinion of Hollywood to myself.

[altar scene at Rivendell]...was one of the best added scenes in my opinion. There was just so much symbolism in Boromir dropping Narsil and then Aragorn picking it up. It said leagues about both of thier charachters. Boromir dropping the sword shows his disillusion with Gondor and it's past, and Aragorn picking it up is yet another bit of foreshadowing as to his coming fate.

I will grant you it is self-consistent with the characterization of Boromir in the movie. But I don't see that in the book. He clearly is a bit unsure of Aragorn at first because of his looks, but I get no impression from the book that he is at all disillusioned with Gondor's past. Disillusioned with the fact that Gondor doesn't get the credit it deserves for holding off Sauron, and highly disillusioned about the choice of the Council as far as wanting to destroy the Ring. But he takes to Aragorn quickly and longs for the day when they can fight together. Whatever his personal faults, I see Boromir as a great patriot of the White City who puts its survival above all else. The altar scene shows him, in my opinion, showing contempt for the downfallen Northern Dunedain. (he doesn't "drop" Narsil, he throws it down in contempt as I interpret that scene) I get nothing like that from the text in terms of him being contempuous towards Gondor's past.

And there was really no better way to express Aragorns fear and insecurity then have Arwen speak it for him.

Fear and insecurity are portrayed in the movie, again no argument there, but I would assert that is not the case in the book, although I will stand corrected if you can come up with book quotes showing Aragorn as fearful/insecure (I don't think his fear for the fate of Eowyn counts). The ones that tend to pop into my mind are more like, when Gandalf hands him the Palantir and tells him to be wary of using it, Aragorn replies "When have I been hasty or unwary, who have waited and prepared for so many long years." These are not in my opinion the words of an insecure man.

His standing up alone on the battlements at Helm's Deep just before dawn, when all hope seems lost, and defying the enemy, is not the mark of a fearful man, if anything more like one who is fey. Yet he isn't fey. He is more like supremely confident and fearless because he has both Arwen's love and her foresight that he will be among the great to defeat Sauron.

Mindy_O_Lluin

07-31-2002, 02:19 PM

Thanks indexerkevin, for pointing that out to them. I too liked the portrayal of Aragorn better in the book than in the movie. In the book, I never sensed any self doubt, fear, reluctance or any of that. Just a Wise and Wary man who was patient, sure of himself, and who KNEW when the time would be right to put himself forth, and not foolishly before. Even that line in the movie quoted by Arwen about deing Isildur's heir, not Isildur himself, in the book, was dialog by Aragorn about himself, therefore putting a much more self-confident tone to it.

I mean, he knows he's a king, albeit yet uncrowned, and kings are not whimpy.

Aragorn to Borimir at the Council of Elrond:

'For my part, I forgive your doubt. Little do I resemble the figures of Elendil and Isildur as they stand carven in their majesty in the halls of Denethor. I am but the heir of Isildur, not Isildur himself. I have had a hard life, and a long; and the leagues thay lie between here and Gondor are a small part in the count of my journeys.'

This is why we love Aragorn - not because he is gorgeous! ;)

Talimon

07-31-2002, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by indexerkevin

I apologize for this highly inflammatory comment, I should keep my low opinion of Hollywood to myself.

I doubt your opinion of todays Hollywood is any lower then mine. I love the Hollywood of the past, but it is impossible to match my contempt for what goes down as art today. Yet it is important to note what it is that one despises. Very little of the elements that define a "Hollywood movie" are displayed in FotR.

Originally posted by indexerkevin

But he takes to Aragorn quickly and longs for the day when they can fight together. Whatever his personal faults, I see Boromir as a great patriot of the White City who puts its survival above all else. The altar scene shows him, in my opinion, showing contempt for the downfallen Northern Dunedain. (he doesn't "drop" Narsil, he throws it down in contempt as I interpret that scene) I get nothing like that from the text in terms of him being contempuous towards Gondor's past.

As for your first point, there is little doubt that Boromir loves the White City and wishes for it's well being. I happen to be traveling and only have TTT and RotK with me, but even here there is a quote from Gandalf about Boromir that applies, I believe.

'He [Denethor] is not as other men of this time, Pippin, and whatever be his descent from father to son, by some chance the blood of Westernesse runs nearly true in him; as it does in his other son, Faramir, and yet did not in Boromir whom he loved best.

There are other smaller references, but I think the point remains that Tolkien made Faramir and Boromir opposites in this one way. Faramir, when meeting Frodo in TTT, shows a deep love of Gondors past. One of my favorite quotes from Faramir is this:

...but I do not love the bright sword for it's sharpness, nor the arrow for it's swifteness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend: the city and the Men of Numenor; and I would have her loved for her memory, her ancientry, her beauty, and her present wisdom.

At the same time we get the impression that Boromir was accounted great only for his greatness in arms, proven by another quote from Faramir:

...and though we still hold that a warrior should have more skills and knowledge than only the craft of weapons and slaying, we esteem a warrior, nonetheless, above men of other crafts. Such is the need of our days. So even was my brother, Boromir: a man of prowess, and for that he was accounted the best man in Gondor."]

All this, in addition to Boromirs actions, lead me to believe that he was of lesser nobility and grace then Faramir, Aragorn, or even Denethor. Finally, it should be mentioned that Denethor was less then keen at having Aragorn come and replace him. It can be assumed that Boromir, (while never hostile towards Aragorn, certainly didn't hold him in the highest respect) held a similar opinion. He was still more loyal to his father then to Aragorn. If anything the movie makes thier relationship closer then the text does.

Originally posted by indexerkevin

Fear and insecurity are portrayed in the movie, again no argument there, but I would assert that is not the case in the book, although I will stand corrected if you can come up with book quotes showing Aragorn as fearful/insecure (I don't think his fear for the fate of Eowyn counts). The ones that tend to pop into my mind are more like, when Gandalf hands him the Palantir and tells him to be wary of using it, Aragorn replies "When have I been hasty or unwary, who have waited and prepared for so many long years." These are not in my opinion the words of an insecure man.

While it is true that in TTT his confidence rises to soaring hights, there are numerous examples of his insecurity in FotR. While perhaps not in this specific respect, we see Aragorn insecure when Gandalf falls in Moria, nonetheless for having to take so much responsibility upon himself. But I think this point isn't very relevant, and is one of those changes that helps enhance the movie as a movie. It helps make Aragorn more human, by having him express doubt. Tolkien put subtlety in Aragorns charachter (as he did in Gandalfs), to ensure that the reader not conjure a mental image of the stereo-typical warior and wizard. Both charachters have human sides to them, and I think PJ's choice to emphasize these sides is what separates this movie from every fantasy movie before it. To readers of the book it's easier to look at the empty half of the cup, indeed that's the obvious impulse. But the more aware viewer will see the movie for what it is and appreciate what subtlety is there, while keeping in mind that not every change from the book is necessarily a bad one.

King of Gondor.

07-31-2002, 05:02 PM

Viggo is a beautiful Aragorn, but:

Too young,
Too pretty,
Too timid.
_________________________________________________

Those are the words I was looking for Mindy!

:D

indexerkevin

08-01-2002, 03:14 AM

Originally posted by Talimon

[see post of Talimon above for several quotes]

All this, in addition to Boromirs actions, lead me to believe that he was of lesser nobility and grace then Faramir, Aragorn, or even Denethor. Finally, it should be mentioned that Denethor was less then keen at having Aragorn come and replace him. It can be assumed that Boromir, (while never hostile towards Aragorn, certainly didn't hold him in the highest respect) held a similar opinion. He was still more loyal to his father then to Aragorn. If anything the movie makes thier relationship closer then the text does.

You bring up some interesting points, which mirrors a bit my own comments on Boromir in the thread on the Dunedain. However I don't see this as making Boromir less in love with Gondor's past. I see them both as having an equal intensity of love for their land but with a different emphasis. Boromir loves Gondor's past for the glory of its military accomplishments, while Faramir loves the whole ball of wax as you say.

Denethor doesn't know until he interrogates Pippin that one is coming who may supplant him, though Pippin is careful not to mention Aragorn by name, Gandalf fearing just the situation you describe. Therefore when Boromir goes to Rivendell he has no clue that his father once competed for his own father's favor with Thorongil/Aragorn, and has no reason to dislike Aragorn. [appendix under Stewards/Ecthelion II in terms of fact that only Denethor, the son of King Ecthelion II, was happy to see Thorongil leave at the height of his fame.]

These points are subtle and could go either way, but I will have to continue to disagree as to you last line that movie makes them more friends than book, as I see it just the opposite. In the book there are parts where Boromir longs for the day when they can draw swords together in defense of Minas Tirith. In movie Boromir is shown expressing disillusion/contempt for the downfallen Northern line and Aragorn by extension, and what about the scene where Boromir picks up the Ring from the snow and Aragorn must intimidate him into giving it back.

While it is true that in TTT his confidence rises to soaring hights, there are numerous examples of his [Aragorn's] insecurity in FotR. While perhaps not in this specific respect, we see Aragorn insecure when Gandalf falls in Moria, nonetheless for having to take so much responsibility upon himself. But I think this point isn't very relevant, and is one of those changes that helps enhance the movie as a movie. It helps make Aragorn more human, by having him express doubt......

Again some subtle points. I see Moria as less insecurity than being stunned by events. He's not supposed to really be anything but a co-traveller with the Fellowship, as his aim is to make for Minas Tirith with Boromir, and now his best and perhaps only true friend (besides Arwen) has been apparently killed and he is forced to take on the additional mantle of leading the Fellowship. Yeah I would call that being stunned and freaked out but he shouldered the responsibility immediately.

Gandalf himself is stunned and totally freaked out on several occasions in LOTR. Something bad happens and for about 2 paragraphs Gandalf literally acts like the old chicken with no noggin. But every time he masters the situation and his temper and not only recovers but usually finds some possible hidden good in the bad thing that just happened. Confident, secure guys are allowed to be freaked out and in doubt on occasion, as I see it!! As long as they pull themselves together soon enough.

I agree with you that doubt makes Aragorn more human and a more appealing movie character. I think doubt is well portrayed several times with Aragorn in the text, most notably at Parth Galen, where he basically goes "ARGGHHHH! First I lose by best bud, then Boromir bites the dust and the Ring-bearer is gone. What a fell choice I have been given." Here he is stunned, freaked out, and in doubt, but less then a few lines later he confidently chooses what to do next.

enough babbling ......

indexerkevin

08-01-2002, 03:27 AM

Originally posted by indexerkevin

Confident, secure guys are allowed to be freaked out and in doubt on occasion, as I see it!! As long as they pull themselves together soon enough.

Just like the secure and confident man will stop and ask for directions! Sorry I promised no more babbling for the time being.

Gandalf_White

08-01-2002, 06:34 AM

I guessed I never imagine Aragorn as being "cute" (I am a girl by the way) I think they made Viggo a good Aragorn by making him tough and outdoorsman type of person.

Talimon

08-01-2002, 03:43 PM

In the book there are parts where Boromir longs for the day when they can draw swords together in defense of Minas Tirith. In movie Boromir is shown expressing disillusion/contempt for the downfallen Northern line and Aragorn by extension, and what about the scene where Boromir picks up the Ring from the snow and Aragorn must intimidate him into giving it back.

I didn't see it like that. One of my favorite scenes with Boromir and Aragorn is in Lorien.

Boromir: I will find no rest here. I heard her voice inside my head. She spoke of my father and the fall of Gondor. She said to me, even now there is hope left. But I cannot see it. It is long since we had any hope. My father is a noble man, but his rule is failing. And then our... our people lose faith. He looks to me to make things right, and I, I would do it. But I don't see the glory of Gondor restored. Have you ever seen it, Aragorn? The white tower of Ecthelion, glimmering like a spike of pearl and silver, its banners caught high in the morning breeze. Have you ever been called home by the clear ringing of silver trumpets?

Aragorn: I have seen the white city. Long ago.

Boromir: One day our paths will lead us there, and the tower guard shall take up the call: For the Lords of Gondor have returned.

indexerkevin

08-01-2002, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by Talimon

[about Boromir and Aragorn being closer in book than protrayed in movie]

I didn't see it like that. One of my favorite scenes with Boromir and Aragorn is in Lorien.
[see quotes above]

I will stand firm on my arguments about Aragorn not being fearful or insecure, but I think I will reread some of FotR to find some of the places I seem to think Boromir looks forward to drawing swords with Aragorn. It is quite possible I have imagined these or exaggerated their number.

In the meantime, I think I'm scaring people away from voting on this poll with all my super-long posts. There does seem to be a consensus that Viggo did a great job.

Have any people here joined the throngs following him to poetry readings or seen any of his photography?

Anamatar IV

08-01-2002, 09:29 PM

This is perfect for picking out the people who just liked the movies so post here. Any ways i imagined someone Austin Powers as Aragorn.:)

4th Age Scribe

08-06-2002, 05:01 AM

He wasn't big enough in stature. Not heavy enough. He looks to me as if he threw his sword down I could whip him in a fist fight.

Thats not how I pictured a very lean, muscular, but wiry Aragorn.

Grond

08-06-2002, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by 4th Age Scribe
He wasn't big enough in stature. Not heavy enough. He looks to me as if he threw his sword down I could whip him in a fist fight.

Thats not how I pictured a very lean, muscular, but wiry Aragorn. You might want to rent G. I. Jane starring Demi Moore and Viggo. He's the bad-arsed Master-chief who trains the SEAL candidates.

He looked plenty tough to me. :)

Beverly

08-06-2002, 07:30 AM

Any one person who has studied Tolkien's work, seriously, only want's an
accurate account of it.
The man was a genius. To alter any of his story is to disrespect him.
Arwen actually interacts only in the Return of the King, and then lightly.
The biggest role she played is at the wedding and afterwards with her decision. YES she is from Luthien. But Luthien conquered sooooo much more.
There had to have been a way for the film makers to include the female persona and still stay true to the book. They are paid millions, and this is the best they could come up with regarding Arwen??

(And it's not that hard to have Gandalf take the credit for the stallions in the river............there's a reason for that)

Signed,
Fan of
Luthien Tinuviel

Mindy_O_Lluin

08-06-2002, 08:54 AM

What? *Looks around* Am I in the right thread? :confused:

Beverly, It sounds like you are answering a question from a different thread.

Well, welcome, and maybe one of the mods can help you re-direct this most passionate post to it's rightful thread.
Have a good time here. You'll get the hang of it.
;)

In Flames

08-06-2002, 09:01 PM

I think that Viggo made a solid performance as Aragorn. I never pictured me Aragorn as a really muscular fellow, but as this dark, troubled, mysterious and powerful man. And Viggo portrayed (sp?) him just as how i imagined him to be. IMO, I dont think PJ could have gone with anyone better than Viggo.

BTW, did you know he is in the movie "Texas Chainsaw Massacre III"

There's a quality performance right there:p

Mindy_O_Lluin

08-07-2002, 07:52 AM

Oh gosh, that's terrible. I didn't need to hear that! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

But really, even tho I pictured the book Aragorn as more rugged, I do think Viggo is very sexy as Aragorn, which is an added plus over the books. In fact, his pictures don my computer desktops, at home and at work.

Beverly

08-07-2002, 11:15 PM

Mindy,

Thanks for your patience........don't know how my reply got posted to your thread. It was my first time on the site.

At any rate,as far as looks go, I think Viggo was a pretty good Aragorn. I have to keep in mind he is playing Aragorn as a Ranger, not the King of Gondor. (In my mind he cleans up verrryyy nicely).
The acting was comparable. We got the LOTR DVD last friday, and I watched it once, complaining all the way. I wouldn't see it in theater because I knew I would ruin the movie for those un-educated in JRRT.

I'm going to give it a go again, this time ALONE. Hopefully I will be able to separate the book from film,(if possible), and enjoy it.

Thanks again!

Aragorn*9

08-08-2002, 04:10 AM

YES YES YES!!! Viggo Mortensen was PERFECT as ARAGORN!!!!!!

In Flames

08-08-2002, 09:12 AM

Confusticated...It was a long time since i saw it, but he plays the roll of Tex...if i remember it right hes the cowboy that gets "killed" in the beggining:)

In Flames

08-08-2002, 12:32 PM

Heh...tommorow im gonna rent it, and the other TCM movies as well..

Yes! Tommorow i will have "Gorefeast Friday!":D , hm....I wonder how many of the Friday 13th movies i can watch in a row?

Ooops...this have gone way of topic:rolleyes:

Im just gonna stop writing now..

Mindy_O_Lluin

08-08-2002, 04:15 PM

No problem Beverly. Besides, I cannot take credit for this thread. ;)

You brought up a good point. If Aragorn looks good now, by the end of the third movie, he will look faint-on-the-floor / throw-water-on-me, outrageously gorgeous! I can't wait.

Why would we want to defile our mental image of him by watching TCM3. Better to watch "A Walk on the Moon." Viggo would probably be embarrased to know anyone even found him in TCM3.

I need to re-watch GI Jane, because I have vauge memories of him in there, since I wastn't aware of him at the time.

Ariana Undomiel

08-10-2002, 06:40 PM

[ I do think Viggo is very sexy as Aragorn]

Aragorn SEXY! That's disgusting. What about ruggedly handsome. Kind, Brave, Loyal, a King! But don't call him SEXY! What would Tolkien say?

~Ariana

Mad Adski

08-10-2002, 09:32 PM

Okay - I've been gone a long time (I left before a lot of you people registered), but I think this is good place to start posting again.

Getting to the point, I was glad that PJ cast an actor suited to the part in Viggo, rather than a big Hollywood star, such as Tom Cruise or whoever. Disagreeing with what some people have said, I believe he had exactly the right look for Aragorn and his performance centered upon showing Aragorn as a noble character, weighed down by the world. In my mind, Viggo get across the point of Aragorn being in exile very well. I though that it was easy to believe he was a king in exile, living a hard and lonely existence in the wilds. It will be interesting to see how he progresses, but I think that like many of other roles (Gandelf, Saruman, Boromir, Legalos) Aragorn was perfectly cast.

Mindy_O_Lluin

08-11-2002, 12:11 AM

Well if they had picked an actor based more on Tolkien's description, instead of Viggo, then I probably would not have used the word "Sexy".
Let me say I think VIGGO is sexy, dressed in Aragorn's garb. (well when his hair is clean anyway. They probably had to keep his hair dirty all the time just to DE-Sexify him and give some homage to Tolkien.)
;)

indexerkevin

08-11-2002, 01:32 AM

Originally posted by Mindy_O_Lluin
Well if they had picked an actor based more on Tolkien's description, instead of Viggo, then I probably would not have used the word They probably had to keep his hair dirty all the time just to DE-Sexify him and give some homage to Tolkien.)
;)

Arwen apparently thought he was sexy enough! Although it could be pointed out she only went head over heels for him when Galadriel dressed him up and played matchmaker, when they pledge troth in Lothlorien.

Gil-Galad

08-11-2002, 02:04 AM

I like Vigo as an actor very much and I think he's the best actor for Aragorn.He's just like Tolkien describes it and you see in the next parts how good he is.In the FOTR he ,Wood,Sawn Bean and Ian do the best they can and I think they manage to become part of their characters.

elven_warrior

08-11-2002, 04:34 AM

he was just as i thought he would be. all my friends and i were suprised at how good he was.

Ariana Undomiel

08-11-2002, 09:05 AM

Arwen apparently thought he was sexy enough! Although it could be pointed out she only went head over heels for him when Galadriel dressed him up and played matchmaker, when they pledge troth in Lothlorien

I personally think that SEXY is not an appropriate term when describing someone with a character like Aragorn's. I doubt that Arwen thought he was SEXY and I also doubt that Galadriel had that in mind when she brought them together. Galadriel and Arwen both saw a kingly man who had a noble heart and a desire to bring something better to the world that he would someday rule as king. Sure he must have been handsome, but SEXY is such a ... well don't take a offense, but such an obscene term. I wouldn't use it when discussing anyone in Tolkien's works.

~Ariana

Mindy_O_Lluin

08-11-2002, 11:24 AM

You'll have to forgive my inclination of viewing marriage motivations from a more modern bent. I realize Tolkien was from a prior social culture, but I find it hard to think of women as gold-diggers, or of finding their social status through their spouse. I'd prefer to think Arwen was attracted to him first,
(then only secondarily, after his status and wealth! :D )

P.S. I don't consider PJ's movie as one of 'Tolkien's works.'

indexerkevin

08-11-2002, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by Ariana Undomiel
I personally think that SEXY is not an appropriate term when describing someone with a character like Aragorn's. I doubt that Arwen thought he was SEXY and I also doubt that Galadriel had that in mind when she brought them together. ... SEXY is such a ... well don't take a offense, but such an obscene term. I wouldn't use it when discussing anyone in Tolkien's works.

~Ariana

hmmmm.. Very interesting. I was partly kidding in what I wrote and am not sure how to reply since I don't have a clue how old you are and wish to be very careful in my reply.

So I'm just really fascinated by why you would think the idea of "sexy" is obscene. I agree 100% with you that Tolkien never directly brings out any such concept. Like Mindy said I think we tend to push our modern views onto what we read; I was clearly doing so. Mainly I just think Tolkien was writing in a grand tradition in which this didn't need to be stated; it was taken for granted. When people are shown to fall in love and get married it is taken for granted that they were attracted to each other, whatever sort of words we choose to place on it. Romantic attraction may be a more comfortable term, but it's just a flowerly word for the same thing.

For Arwen's part, I think you are right that she saw in him what he could/would be in terms of his kingliness. Women are often more foresighted than men and look to a man not so much for what he is now but what he could become. And true to the real life properties of men, Aragorn is shown being first attracted to her beauty, by calling her Luthien, etc.

(may be slightly off-topic)
In real life, most loves begin with flirtation. In the Tale of Arwen and Aragorn, Tolkien does a great job of making a scene which essentially amounts to flirtation noble (first time they meet). Aragorn says something like "clearly your father has kept his best treasure hidden." This is the noble equivalent of the bar line "where have you been all my life!" Arwen replies to his flirt of calling her Luthien, basically saying she's the most beautiful thing in Middle-Earth, by the line "I am not her, but maybe my fate will be not unlike hers." This is part deep and moving bit of foresight, and yet a flirt. In perfect flirting innuendo, she doesn't say "maybe I'll marry you," but says "maybe it may just happen that I'll marry a Man." In real life, such a line would both make a guy's heart soar ("maybe she means me!!") and paranoid at the same time "I wonder if she already has a Man?" and that's exactly the intent. The essence of flirtation is ambiguity..

Grond

08-11-2002, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by Mindy_O_Lluin
...P.S. I don't consider PJ's movie as one of 'Tolkien's works.' LOL!! Welcome Mindy_O_Lluin to the ranks of the Tolkien purists of The Tolkien Forum.

Beverly

08-11-2002, 07:33 PM

I don't think Galadriel played match maker for Aragorn & Arwen.
Let's remember, Elrond was given the task of housing & keeping safe the heir of Isildur, along whith the shards of Narsil, the blade which was broken & was to be remade. Arwen is Elronds' daughter, so she lived in Rivendell. Probably watched Aragorn grow up, she is that old.
Arwen went to her Grandmothers house, (Galadriels') after her mother's
death in the dens of orcs.
I wish there was more information on Arwens' twin brothers
Elladan & Elrohir, and their quest to revenge their mothers death.

o k .......... all done for now.

b

lilhobo

08-11-2002, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by Lhunithiliel
I voted with "He was dredful", for I really think so!
Yet, when I first saw the film, I was a bit confused. While reading the book I built up my own image of Aragorn, like most of us, I suppose, and Vigo's face was not the one I expected. But after watching the film a few times more and maybe after having read a lot about him, I now can not imagine Aragorn being somebody else but Viggo! I don't find him handsome, I don't even find him attractive... But there is smth. special about this man and I often wonder what!
What does the cinema do to us! ;)

i dont think you can have a better Araorn than that....rugged and regal, and respected!

cant trust them himbos like Legolas can ya nowadays :D

PS. i voted yes coz viggo has the big resonating voice like in submarine movie (i cant remember lol)

indexerkevin

08-11-2002, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by Beverly
I don't think Galadriel played match maker for Aragorn & Arwen.
... Arwen is Elronds' daughter, so she lived in Rivendell. Probably watched Aragorn grow up, she is that old.
Arwen went to her Grandmothers house, (Galadriels') after her mother's
death in the dens of orcs.
I wish there was more information on Arwens' twin brothers
Elladan & Elrohir, and their quest to revenge their mothers death.
b

The scene I referred to is in the Appendix in The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen and when you read it you'll see exactly why I said that Galadriel sets them up. Couple of points:
1) Arwen's mother is not killed; she is captured and tormented, then rescued by Sons of E. Back in Rivendell, Elrond heals all her physical wounds but can not heal her mental anguish, so the next year she takes ship and leaves Middle-Earth. A bit of info is scattered here and there about Sons of E., though I agree they are cool and we'd like to know more about them. They become very tight with the Rangers and Aragorn since he is their chief and are often involved in wiping out invading orc bands in what is left of Arnor.

2) Arwen is living in Lothlorien all the time Aragorn is growing up. She only meets him when he comes of age at 21 I think and Elrond reveals his true identity to him. At this time she has come back to Rivendell for a while and they have the first meeting I mention in my last post in which Aragorn calls out to her "Luthien!"

3) When Aragorn has had about 30 years of adventures, many no doubt with the Sons of E., it so happens that he stops by Lothlorien to rest for a bit. He doesn't know that Arwen is back in Lorien visiting her grandmother Galadriel's people.

[from appendix: Tale of Aragorn and Arwen]
"..Aragorn was grown to full stature of body and mind, and Galadriel bade him cast aside his wayworn raiment, and she clothed him in silver and white, with a cloak of eleven-grey and a bright gem on his brow. Then more than any kind of Men he appeared, and seemed rather an Elf-lord from the Isles of the West. And thus it was that Arwen first beheld him again after their long parting; and as he came walking towards her under the trees of Caras Galadron laden with flowers of gold, her choice was made and her doom appointed."

This is a matchmaking in the finest tradition if I ever saw one!!
There is a beautiful backshadowing I guess it would be in FoTR at the very end of the first chapter in which they are in Lothlorien, where Aragorn stands wistfully on the same hill remembering that moment, never to come there again, though Arwen will one day return to that very spot. This is the most beautiful yet sad love story of all time..

indexerkevin

08-11-2002, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by indexerkevin

There is a beautiful backshadowing I guess it would be in FoTR at the very end of the first chapter in which they are in Lothlorien, where Aragorn stands wistfully on the same hill remembering that moment, never to come there again, though Arwen will one day return to that very spot. This is the most beautiful yet sad love story of all time..

The chapter I refer to is chapter 6: Lothlorien, the first of 3 chapters in which they are in LothLorien. After you know the appendix story, read the last 2 paragraphs of the Lothlorien chapter, they are beautiful.

lilhobo

08-11-2002, 08:13 PM

the saddest part was when arwen had to go off and die alone, knowing that no ship would come for her :(

indexerkevin

08-11-2002, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by lilhobo
the saddest part was when arwen had to go off and die alone, knowing that no ship would come for her :(

Yes, on the very hill in which there is the beautiful scene I just mentioned. To me the saddest thing of all is that it is all quiet. All the people of Lorien are gone. That is why this is the most beautiful but yet bittersweet love story of all time. But that is the way things are in real life, all things but faith, hope, and love change, diminish, or whither and die, or so it says in so many words in the Bible.

Grond

08-11-2002, 08:23 PM

Err... Umm... Beverly.... Arwen is that old and during the entire time that Aragorn was born and growing up, Arwen was on Holiday with her Grandmum Galadriel. from Appendix A, Annals of the Kings and Rulers, V HERE FOLLOWS A PART OF THE TALE OF ARAGORN AND ARWEN,
"Estel i was called," he said; "but I am Aragorn, Arathorn's son, Isildur's Heir, Lord of the Dúnedain"; yet even in the saying he felt that this high lineage, in which his heart had rejoiced, was now to little worth, and as nothing compared to her dignity and loveliness.

But she laughed merrily and said: "Then we are akin from afar. for I am Arwen Elrond's daughter, and am named also Undómiel."

"Often is it seen," said Aragorn, "that in dangerous days men hide their chief treasure. yet I marvel at Elrond and you brothers; for though I have dwelt in this house from childhood, I have heard no word of you. How comes it that we have never met before? Surely you father has not kept you locked in his hoard?"

"No," she said, and looked up at the Mountains that rose in the east. "I have dwelt for a time in the land of my mother's kin, in far Lothlórien. I have but lately returned to visit my father again. It is many years since I walked in Imladris."

Then Aragorn wondered, for she had seemed of no greater age than he, who had lived yet no more than a score of years in Middle-earth. But Arwen looked in his eyes and said: "Do not wonder! For the children of Elrond have the life of the Eldar."

Then Aragorn was abashed, for he saw the elven-light in her eyes and the wisdom of many days; yet from that hour he loved Arwen Undómiel daughter of Elrond.and later in the same Chapter is states,He did not know it, but Arwen Undómiel was also there, dwelling again for a time with the kin of the mother. She was little changed, for the mortal years had passed her by; yet her face was more grave, and her laughter now seldom was heard. But Aragorn was grown to full statue of body and mind, and Galadriel bade him cast aside his wayworn raiment, and she clothed him in silver and white, with a cloak of elven-grey and a bright gem on his brow. Then more than any king of Men he appeared, and seemed rather an Elf-lord from the Isles of the West. And thus it was that Arwen first beheld him again after their long parting; and as he came walking towards her under the trees of Caras Galadhon laden with flowers of gold, her choice was made and her doom appointed.I might call that match-making. :);):D

Grond

08-11-2002, 08:25 PM

indexerkevin, while you was typin', I was typin' and you beat me to the submit key. Sorry for the redundancy, but I think our point is correct. :)

Beverly

08-15-2002, 07:08 AM

Correct are Indexerkevin & Grond...........incorrect am i.
Lots to read & learn.....again...& enjoyment to be had by all!

Grond:
How do you feel about Feanor? Most here don't like him.

Indexerkevin:
Thanks.

B

Beverly

08-15-2002, 07:26 AM

No need to reply to my question.......Just read "Grond- Feanors Legacy"
Will be watching your intellect....

B

Beverly

08-15-2002, 11:40 PM

I hadn't read the Appendixes, tho I plan to after ROTK. I'm on chapter 2 right now.
Thanks for the info, I'll be sure to keep my kleenex handy while I'm reading them.

Sure learn alot on this site!

B

indexerkevin

08-16-2002, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by Confusticated

...
I had read the book twice before paying attention to the first parts of the appendix, but the third and fouth time reading the book was enriched because I was aware that Aragorn was thinking of Awen there in Lothlorien, and that she is who he obscurely mentiones a few times.

From FotR/Ch 6/last 2 paragraphs

At the hill's foot Frodo found Aragorn, standing still and silent as a tree; but in his hand was a small golden bloom of elanor, and a light was in his eyes. He was wrapped in a fair memory: and as Frodo looked at him he knew that he beheld things as they once had been in this same place. For the grim years were removed from the face of Aragorn, and he seemed clothed in white, a young lord tall and fair; and he spoke words in the Elvish tongue to one whom Frodo could not see. Arwen vanimelda, namariel! he said, and then he drew a breath, and returning out of his thought he looked at Frodo and smiled.
"Here is the heart of Elvendom on earth," he said, and and here my heart dwells ever, unless there be a light beyond the dark roads that we still must tread, you and I. Come with me!" And taking Frodo's hand in his, he left the hill of Cerin Amroth and came there never again as living man.

(me again)
There are many such fore-and back-shadowing scenes in LOTR. Each time you read it you may pick up a few more. Another good one is when Frodo is at Bombadil's, he has a dream that foreshadows what takes place just a few paragraphs from the very end of the book, when he sees a fast sunrise, etc....

Gil-Galad

08-17-2002, 11:52 PM

In fact I would say Viggo is not very handsome,just see nose and chin.But I must confess he's a good actor and in my view nobody would make better performance than Viggo as Aragorn.

Kathl85

04-28-2003, 04:06 AM

I think Viggo was really good as Aragon, he has that dark, rugged and mysterious look about him.. I can't think of anyone else in his role..:)

ladyoflorien

04-28-2003, 03:16 PM

viggo definetely fit the part of aragorn perfectly. i always thought he was one of the most well done characters. he looks so hansom when he's all rugged and dirty!

Idril

04-28-2003, 05:17 PM

I think Viggo was perfect as Aragorn (perhaps a wee bit young) - he looks a bit 'bland' in other films - but in LotRs, with costume, makeup etc - he's spot on:) Yum Yum

Maeglin

01-08-2004, 01:20 AM

I just found this thread, and I know its old, but I'll bring it back to life if I can...actually I don't really care if anyone responds, but I'm going to voice my opinion anyway.
I thought that Viggo Mortensen did indeed play Aragorn very well, and very close to the way I imagined him in my mind. That said, I don't think he was the only person who could have pulled off such a good Aragorn. One of these people is Russel Crowe, he was spectacular in Gladiator, and if he can play that role so well, I also feel that he could have made an awesome Aragorn. Another person who I think could have played him is Mel Gibson; Gibson was excellent in Braveheart, playing a role similar to the type of role Aragorn has, so I feel that he would have been a good fit. The last alternative actor would be the guy who plays Wolverine in X-men (I forgot his name), I'm not sure why...he just seems to have an Aragorn type of air about him.

celebdraug

01-12-2004, 02:05 PM

Yea! he was really goood! Its a shame he is not the one acting as Sirius and H.P :(:( Big shame......................

ladyoflorien

01-13-2004, 06:59 AM

i didn't know he was up for sirius? that is soooooooooo cool! that is too bad! he would have been the perfect handsome/mysterious/creepy sirius!!! darnit!!!!!!!!!!

celebdraug

01-13-2004, 01:41 PM

do you know who the person acting as him is? But still i dont think that HE will do a job as good as aragorn did...:(:(:(

Fechin

01-13-2004, 11:15 PM

Could not have picked anyone better. He played his part perfectly.

Barliman Butterbur

01-14-2004, 12:05 AM

Everyone has their own perfect version of Aragorn in their mind, but I thought Viggo was great.

Certainly Mortensen was absolutely committed and sincere, and a fine actor! But I would have wanted an actor who was physically larger and more imposing, and with a more stentorian voice.

Barley

celebdraug

01-14-2004, 03:32 PM

Yea! i agree! and i would not swan another actor for Aragorn with him! :):):)
Something P.J did a good choice on! :D

e.Blackstar

12-27-2004, 06:41 PM

I loved him as aragorn, becuase not only did I feel that he looked right and handled the terrain right (with a excellent ruggedness what-have-you), but also just because he is a good actor in general and made the best of some cheesy lines/situations (oh no, here come the Movie Defenders to kill me)

I think that Hugh Jackman also would have made a pretty good Aragorn...but Viggo was a GREAT choice.

Ingwë

01-06-2005, 03:00 PM

He wasn`t perfect but I like him. I think that he was greater in the book. The description in the book is better and PJ can`t make Aragorn in the movie greater than Aragorn in the books.

Barliman Butterbur

01-06-2005, 03:16 PM

He was very good, IMHO. My only quibble was how he let his American accent slip through at times. That popped the bubble at inopportune moments;)

Barley

Valandil

01-07-2005, 12:42 PM

Perhaps he was OK. Where I feel the character is a little off - I'm not totally sure how much is the actor and how much is the director.

I guess Gregory Peck wasn't available, huh? :p

Barliman Butterbur

01-07-2005, 03:59 PM

I guess Gregory Peck wasn't available, huh? :p

Yeaaghhhhhh!

Thankfully they didn't use Sean Connery! (Or indeed — any "Hollywood Star" in any of the major roles, which would have seriously jeopardized believablility, methinks...

Barley

Starbrow

01-15-2005, 05:32 AM

Viggo came very, very close to how I have always imagined Aragorn. He did a fine job.

lamariaevenstar

01-29-2005, 01:24 AM

You have no idea what you are talking about. To call the script of this movie "Hollywood cocaine addled" shows a lack of understanding as to what is "Hollywood". Quite frankly, very few of the changes (if any) have anything to do with keeping the movie "PC", as the good PJ-critics like to call it. All too often do I hear folks pointing to scenes as being "sell-outs" but not backing thier claims. Chief of these is Arwen. Both sides are at fault here for making the absurd presumption that Arwen's inclusion has anything to do with keeping a female presence. There is not one good example of this. Non of Arwens actions help beef up that presence.

I'm sorry you didn't like that scene. It was one of the best added scenes in my opinion. There was just so much symbolism in Boromir dropping Narsil and then Aragorn picking it up. It said leagues about both of thier charachters. Boromir dropping the sword shows his disillusion with Gondor and it's past, and Aragorn picking it up is yet another bit of foreshadowing as to his coming fate.

And there was really no better way to express Aragorns fear and insecurity then have Arwen speak it for him. It couldn't be done without dialogue, and it would deminish Aragorns nobility if he brought up the subject himself. I don't think him talking about it with Arwen, a woman he loves at that, deminishes anything, and makes him leagues more human.

I agree with everything you have said especially about Arwen. In the appendixes They explain why they have Arwen in there more, and it was NOT because Liv Tyler is a known actress, but because of the fact that they wanted to show the importance of the relationship. JRR Tolkien valued this relationship as it goes back to his love for his wife. Because the book was detailed with plenty of conflicts and battle already, he never really had time to put them in the story. Which is why JRR Tolkien wrote the Appendixes so that people would understand the relationships between people. Peter went to them and read them and put them in the movie to explain this important relationship.

joxy

01-29-2005, 05:53 PM

Barliman Butterbur

01-29-2005, 06:49 PM

More to the point: was Aragorn the perfect Viggo?! :p

Barley

lamariaevenstar

01-29-2005, 08:27 PM

It's interesting to see a response to a posting Talimon made over two years ago, but he has not been around for a long time now,
so it is not likely that he will see the response.
I stand by the theory I proposed right from the moment when Arwen poked her sword at Aragorn, that she has all her additional and excessive prominence for just one reason: Jackson was paying Liv a vast amount of money but realised that hers would be a very small role, and therefore had to justify the expenditure to his paymasters by inventing all the new stuff for her to do.
Interestingly enough, i've just signed on, so of course I wouldn't know that Taliman or who ever started this two years ago. Interesting theory about the whole Arwen thing, but I dont agree with it what so ever.
And sorry Barliman, I think Viggo was an awesome actor for Aragorn. He's very noble and humble, and Viggo took this part with great consideration and was determined to do a very good job (just like the whole cast, but taht's for another thread;-))

Barliman Butterbur

01-29-2005, 10:48 PM

...Barliman, I think Viggo was an awesome actor for Aragorn...

I was just being silly! Sometimes this place just gets too huffy-stuffy, and so I thought I'd do something inane (some think I'm insane) — something akin to setting a mouse loose in a crowd of girls just to liven things up and break up the pontificatory seriousness. :p

Viggo was beautifully cast as Aragorn. I thought the whole cast did themselves proud.

Barley

Maggot

01-30-2005, 06:13 PM

You are one hundred percent right in saying the cast were fantastic. As they were indeed the best cast for a movie i have ever seen. Orlando Bloom was brilliant as Legolas. Viggo Mortensen was brilliant he rode a horse like a pro and killed the orcs superbly. But nobody was better than Ian Mckellen (please excuse me if i spelt his name wrong) who really brought the mystical, mysterious Gandalf to life Peter Jackson and your cast are the best!!!!! wwwwwwwwwwwwooooooooooooooohoooooooooooooooooo!!!! !!

lamariaevenstar

01-31-2005, 09:50 PM

In light of what Maggot said, I was particularily proud of the cast, they weren't spoiled at all, they worked their hardest and they formed friendships and a close knit family through out the flimings. Viggo broke his toe when he kicked the urakai helmet in the TT at the beginning. PJ said that when that happened he didn't even know that Viggo had broken his toe, he said that he was surprised that he didn't say anything because he said most actors would have said "Oh god, i broke my toe" but PJ said that VIggo decided to use that pain into it to make it believable(that he was truly missing his friends(hobbits)). Also Orlando had a broken rib and the guy who played Gimli's(John Ryhs-Davies) double had dislocated his knee, so these poor guys who were injured were running their butts off along the terain(sp?) and just kept going...absolutley amazing, to me that shows a lot of dedication to this film(s)