Ohtacárë i nwalmë úquétima: War OOC

[Snaga]

ack ... we just posted at the same time! I'll move mine to after yours... it would make more sense that way!:D

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

Hmm it seems there is no escape for the forces of Heren Istarion, I should have posted that we killed those damned trolls when I had the chance!:p

Dain cannot possibly turn the tide of this battle, and I will council Anamatar so. But dont you worry, snaga, we'll be back next war! :mad: ;)

EDIT: Anamatar, read my PMs before you post!

[¤-Elessar-¤]

why is it that all of the major posting happens on nights when I have homework??? Alright, I didn't read all of this thread, but I read the first and the last posts, so I should be alright.

[Ciryaher]

Firstly, I want to apologize for any rudeness that I conveyed to you all. It was inexcusable, and I shall do my best to redress it for the good of all.

Secondly, I have a...few concerns.

Mornclaur is *really* getting too big...can we please please please make Zirak Khazad a neutral group as before, Angmar deserted completely, and Imladris left raped and abandoned. I don't mean to whine, but even I know that if Mornclaur controlled the Blue and Misty Mountains, Angmar, AND Rivendell...the regions of Arnor, Arandor, and Rohan would be completely hopeless.

Come...you have millions of troops to draw upon, give the West a *little* break and allow these measures...there is no way that a war would be fair with the scales that much in Mornclaur's favor. I implore you to consider my requests, Snaga (and Dengen).

Also...I think that if we ended the war and withdrew our forces, it would be much easier to start a new cycle of politics and eventually a war. I have a plan in mind that I have talked over with Mormegil, but unfortunately not Turgon, who I needed to talk to the most (and apparently thinks that I didn't like him and thus left his moderating position :(). Hopefully we can work things out to ensure that the next conflict is not so...quarrelsome? And much more fun!

[Ciryaher]

As you can see, I've moved many of the War threads (as well as other wars) into the Government Forum. Hope this helps things!

[Snaga]

Thanks for moving things... I think that helps a lot.:)

It seems appropriate that as the thread starter I should write a concluding post to the March from the North.

I agree with your sentiments Cirayher, and I am working on some things to re-order the world somewhat.

But I am not part of Mornclaur at the moment, but I have control of Zirak Khazad, the Grey Mountains, Angmar and Rivendell.

I am going to take this opportunity to involve some new participants... especially some new dwarven chieftains.

My new realm is generally evil and aligned to Mornclaur but its not as disciplined, unitary or reliable. It could be dangerous and unpredictable... it might act as one ... or it might not. It might answer the Dark Lord's call... or it might not.

I hope this is acceptable in terms of balance of power, and more fun and interesting?

[Nenya Evenstar]

I think that will work great, snaga.

Now, we really need to get Dengen in here and posting. *Runs to call Dengen* ;) What will be a satisfactory resolution to the war in Gondor? As it looks now, Gondor may end in the hands of the Mornclaur . . . . I'm thinking that since The March to the North is ended that The Girdle of Goroth needs to end too. However, the trick is just doing that and making everyone happy. Regardless of how this war ends, the Mornclaur and the West can always make treaties later. Discuss. :p

[Ciryaher]

Hmm...true, Nenya. Rather than worry about where things settle (as long as they're not terribly unfair) we could just as easily and effectively make treaties after the war to perhaps make some side-balancing compromises.

[Anamatar IV]

Just so everyone knows my lastest post in the Girdle of Goroth thread is insignificant to everything. Pretend it didn't happen if you must. I am simply doing it for simplicity (yeah yeah I know:p)

[Dengen-Goroth]

I think most know my thoughts on this issue. I am completely against a restart, in all too many ways. The issues I have seen brought up can very easily resurface in any other war we may attempt. New parties may enter the fray midway, should we instantly restart the war because of that? Errors in 'organization' may occur, does this instantly merit a restart. I also have to say that I have not seen any true organization errors so far within the war. Disputed conclusions to battles may occur, and undoubtedly will continue to occur, but can be resolved. I will agree that Mornclaur does not have enough members, but that is an issue which I am certain can be rectified immediatly. The northern front, admittedly, is lacking in posts from the Mornclaur Side, and has not spawned as numerous battles as has Girdle. However the West has not responded in Girdle whatsoever (not counting Anamatar's post:)).

I realize that it is very unlikely that the war will continue with such opposition, so here is my idea for a compromise. We end things as they are now, exactly. The nations can declare some kind of armistice, and that's the end of that war. But I then call for a moritorium on any other war for an extended period of time (I would prefer three months). The reasoning behind this being that within three months most students will be in that wonderful period of the year known as summer vacation, and can thus devote much more to the war then otherwise possible. Thoughts?

[Arathin]

Really about June 17th would be that latest anyone would be getting out of school. I believe that is only about two months, correct?

[Anamatar IV]

I get out June 23.:(

I agree to the time period without violence and war but I hope we'll be able to do the other things involved in these wars like diplomacy, preperation, dealing with problems in your society (face it: you have peasants:p), and the sort.

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

Dengen that is precisely what we have agreed upon. I was fairly sure we all decided to make as few posts as possible to end this war, so that it can have some sort of conclusion. It has already been finished in the March from the North, Rivendell is now Mornclaur's, and Dain, Arathin, and Elessar have been "called" to their positions of power for the future war. We are making great progress, perhaps if the other slower moving threads could sign treaties rather than battles, either way it will work. Just as long as its not some long drawn out thing...;)

[Ciryaher]

I am discussing something with the Webmaster than concerns us all, so please do not post anything that will open up anything new. Senates and councils should be on the minimum until I bring further news. :)

[Nenya Evenstar]

That sounds enticing . . . .

[¤-Elessar-¤]

exciting? More like frightening. Whenever Cir and the WM get to talking, one of two things can happen.

a- Cir gets suspended (soon to be indefinate, more than likely)
b- I come back and I can honestly not tell what forum I'm at.

[¤-Elessar-¤]

So what's the deal with Gondor? Is division of it still pending?

And, on something Ciryaher said a page or so ago... Mornclaur really has too much land. And that wouldn't even be that much of a problem, except that they have two people running over 3/4 of the known land of the world. (those statemtents of course refer to the entire 'evil' world as Mornclaur, and Snaga is counted in the 'two')

The west is divided as all of the land should be, and there are plenty of people to work it. If the 'other' side gets any bigger, I am going to have to start to ask for land-possession rules. Someone needs to kick the DL in the butt and get them working in here.

[Nenya Evenstar]

Calm down Elessar! This is all being worked out via Dengen, myself, and Cir. It is my guess that I will be pending out a good conclusion for Gondor between Elbereth and myself soon. Land may be given back and everything resettled etc. during the break in between wars.

[Snaga]

I think we should all take some time to mull things over, both in character and out of it.

In character, there are deals to be struck, new alliances to be forged etc.

Out of character we need to maybe reflect on what we think the rp is 'about'. In some sense talking about fairness is irrelevant. Life isn't fair... maybe this rp is a tragedy? Alternatively, if there is a big feeling against that, and we want to find a scenario in which the West gains some ground, then lets find a way to rp towards it.

I don't want to just hand over territory for out of character reasons. It just bugs me...

As for the settling of the Girdle of Goroth thread... I suggest a 'line of control' is drawn roughly where the battle lines are currently drawn. I don't think the West would 'accept' the division of Gondor - but a stalemate where both sides face each other and patrol the borders of 'the neutral zone' seems plausible.

[Elbereth]

As for the settling of the Girdle of Goroth thread... I suggest a 'line of control' is drawn roughly where the battle lines are currently drawn. I don't think the West would 'accept' the division of Gondor - but a stalemate where both sides face each other and patrol the borders of 'the neutral zone' seems plausible

Speaking on behalf of Gondor, I would have to say this is the best idea that I have heard yet. I would be more than willing to go along with this plan.

And as for Elbereth's role in the story....well, I will do my best to get her back into the war. I have this subplot that I'm trying to compose now. If all goes well, I will hopefully have it posted by the end of this weekend. (And don't worry Dengen...there will be no mystical, valar-like remedies to this war from me. I am going to let you and Nenya handle the details of the war for now until I can get myself back into Gondor.)

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

Well I think the new war should be similar to WWI, so many intricate reasons pull in every alliance and every small group into war. Perhaps a young Gondor woman could fall in love with her enemy, wedding to Serewing or something (hmm Helen of Troy anyone?). Or maybe a leader is assassinated? Personally, I think natural resources could also come into play. Maybe a group of NEUTRAL Dwarves (perhaps the Zirak Khazad), Men, Orcs, whatever find a strain of mithril, and the resource needy Arnor led by Cir comes to snatch it up. The Ohtar Valaina, shocked at the slaughter of innocent Dwarves and Men at the hands of the West, decide to uphold the law of the Valar with their skills and spears of the Rohirrim. This could bring in HI to the aid of Arnor, and Mornclaur can sneak in one's country and wreak havoc. There is SO many possiblilites with each new independent group, so I suggest we do something similar to that. Start with one conflict that escelates into a full out war in which there will be strange allies and enemies. This will not only be interesting, but challenging, and full of charactar and story. What do you think?

[Anamatar IV]

I don't know...if everything is staged what's the point of role playing? I thought people wanted to do an rp 5 type thing and, from what people have told me, that really had no set plot from the beginning but rather grew from nothing into something as people kept having ideas and things to do.

[Snaga]

I think there is a difference between having no idea of where things are going, some general ideas and 'having everything staged'.

I certainly don't want everything set in stone.

I guess really I want to encourage creativity in thinking about what might happen and what would be cool storylines rather than ambition and land-grabbing.:) My impression from reading RP5 is that it was that spirit that made it so great.

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

Yea thats a good point guys. But those could definitely be some plots that parties could do... I hope that makes sense. I think we should make it up as we go, make new alliances and wage our own wars, but first we should establish how many soldiers, etc. etc. A MAP with regions would be exceedingly helpful!

[¤-Elessar-¤]

We have lots of maps. Every country in existance has one, of it's own provinces and such. And there are other maps that show the entirety of ME. I do beleive there is a thread in this forum.

[Anamatar IV]

Yeah, maps maps and more maps:

http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5600

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

Well, I meant a new updated map showing everyone's holdings... but we'll have to wait till the other threads are done

[Nenya Evenstar]

I'm sorry this whole thing didn't go through as planned with Gondor Elb! :(

What we all need to remember (myself included as I really got too carried away last time), is that when someone brings in a new idea into the story that we don't go to every extreme to make things go our way.

[¤-Elessar-¤]

If whatever Cir was talking about comes out, and is not posted in the RP forums, I would appriciate it if someone would let me know. I don't tend to look through the others.

[Nenya Evenstar]

I'll notify everyone if I see anything posted elsewhere. :)