Ohtacárë i nwalmë úquétima: War OOC [Archive]

Elbereth

08-03-2002, 04:00 AM

Yes, I am here. Thank you Elessar for your kind words of support.

Gondor is indeed aware of the rising storm that is brewing above it's proverbial horizon. We are currently mustering our troops at Minas Tirith and plan to march northward toward the Brownlands. Our militia will be divided into seven companies. Five companies will be sent immediately Northward, led by Valar's chief general Maedhros. The other two companies shall be sent soon after led by either Valar or myself. The following is Gondor's current military census.

Military Strength:

Provincial Militia - 16,000 Infantry
750 Cavalry

Professional- Infanty 54,100
**Sword 24,100
**Foot archers 10,500
**Heavy Infntry 11,020
**Spear 8,480
Cavalry 14,345
**Knights 75
**Paladins 45
**Heavy Cavalry 10,200
**Light Cavalry 4005
Total - 85,195

Snaga

08-03-2002, 08:05 PM

Here are the forces at the disposal of Zirak Khazad.

Province of Ostmor: 4,600 - 3,000 orc infantry, 1,500 wolf-riders, 100 trolls
Province of Gundabad: 9,200 - 6,000 orc infantry, 2,500 wolf-riders, 700 trolls.
Province of Inghaburzush: 5,200 - 3,100 orc infantry, 1,500 wolf-riders, 600 trolls
Province of Mount Gram: 5,000 - 3,400 orc infantry, 1,500 wolf-riders, 100 trolls
Province of Khazad-dum: 14,400 dwarves
Province of Methedras: 16,700 dwarves
Province of Nogrod: 4,600 dwarves
Province of Belegost: 5,500 dwarves.

Their first involvement is here: The Capture of Isengard (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5457)

Snaga

08-04-2002, 02:48 AM

BTW... Just so you understand why I havent posted again in the March from the North, Lorien has told me he can't post his reply 'til Monday and asked me to wait.:)

Ciryaher

08-04-2002, 03:51 AM

Since when do you control Zirak Kazhad? Telchar should control his own forces if he's going to be in this war.

Arnorian Military:

20,000 Swordsmen
25,000 Short/Longspearmen
15,000 Axemen
15,000 Hammer/Mace
5,000 Archers
80,000 Infantry

plus
1000 Praetorian Guardsmen
500 Dunedain (Arathin's followers)

And the Navy...if it is needed...will be posted later.

Arathin

08-04-2002, 04:18 AM

Due to my lord Ciryaher's good graces, I am now the Governor and Arnorian Senetor of the Mithlond/Himling Province.

I have 5,000 milita through out Mithlond ready at a moments notice, and I have my 500 Dunedain warriors of Numenor.

Eomer Dinmention

08-04-2002, 04:45 AM

Millitary Stregnth
__________________

Calvary= 30 000
_______

Calaviers: 100

Knights: 200

Light Calvary: 4000

Medium Calvary: 9000

Heavy Calvary: 9000

Calvary Archers: 4200

Charioteers: 3500

Infantry= 35 000
________

Swordsmen: 16 000

Archers: 7000

Spearmen: 8000

Axemen: 2000

Cross Bowmen: 2000
_______________________
Millitary Total= 65 000 to 67 000 mark,

City Militia: 5000
_____________

Each City has 2000 Militia to defend the city.
The Militia are less skilled as the soldiers, but still strong in strength

Snaga

08-04-2002, 01:11 PM

I have been a governor in ZK for a very long time.

There is 'control' and then there is 'writing the post'. Telchar is in control. I will not post anything without full authority.

Telchar

08-04-2002, 09:56 PM

I should have said that Snaga posts for me.. I don't get much time online nowdays, due to work and my search for a new apartment/house..

Edit: And if i'm not totaly mistaking, i think i said that he could post for me a while ago..

Mormegil

08-05-2002, 01:26 AM

Military numbers of The White Mountains:

20,000 total infantry
500 rangers

Civilian militia will be used if necessary

All troops of Ered Nimrais are currently at various points in the mountains.

Khamul

08-08-2002, 06:25 PM

Drygo moved towards Pelagir from his fortress at the fords of Poros. His force numbered 50,000, with 30,000 cavalry, 20,000 infantry, and 250 oliphaunts from the far lands of Harad.

The great beasts had great weapons dragging behind, attached to strong ropes, used in the sea by the great Corsairs. They carried trebuchets, catapults, and other great weapons made in Dúr Saur. They had been created by Drygo himself, and built with his powers of fire. None other in the earth had the same ability with siege-craft, and this advantage Drygo would use fully.

The siege weapons were flanked in all directions by the cavalry, and the infantry was inside the great coverage given by the horses.

Scouts were sent far ahead to make sure of the safety of the region. No trouble was expected, but Drygo needed to be sure.

Ciryaher

08-08-2002, 08:13 PM

Where in the name of Eru has Dengen gotten off to, now? This war is going to go *fizzle* if something doesn't happen soon....:(

Dengen-Goroth

08-10-2002, 08:00 PM

I apologize for me departure, a slight vacation I had no knowing of prior to a day before I was to depart. However I am back.

Telchar

08-10-2002, 08:56 PM

I'll most likely be unable to get online from next thursday and for the next week or so..
I'm moving..

Eomer Dinmention

08-11-2002, 07:24 AM

I won't be here from Monday to Friday, I have a school camp to go on.

I'm very sorry for this

Khamul

08-11-2002, 11:18 AM

I cant get online at home at the moment, internet is down....:(

Elbereth

08-14-2002, 01:18 AM

Narya (IC: Altaira) has been appointed Governor of Belfalas, and will serve as its General in battle.

Also, please be aware that in their absence, I will post for Maedhros, Narya, Valar and Eomer.

Elbereth

08-14-2002, 08:14 PM

Gondor is sending Ithlien 9,500 reinforcements from Lebennin.

sword - 3,000
heavy infantry - 1,200
heavy cavalry - 2,300
light cavalry - 1,500
spear - 1,000
foot archers - 500

total troops = 9,500

Narya

08-16-2002, 06:30 AM

(ooc Aiya Elbereth! and I would like to thank you (and Cir) for considering me for such a noble position. I will try my best not to let you guys down.)

Snaga

08-16-2002, 11:44 AM

Alas... I am going to be away from Saturday for a week...

Elbereth

08-16-2002, 11:30 PM

Dengen - What city do you think you destroyed? Please explain yourself, because you are very vague. I suggest if you are going to decimate a city...you would at least have the common courtesy to let us know which city it is! :rolleyes:

Dengen-Goroth

08-16-2002, 11:41 PM

I apologize, I would have thought that the unmistakeable description would have been more then enough, for the trianglular characteristic is well known. It is Pelargir.

Elbereth

08-22-2002, 09:15 AM

Dengen, Tal, and Mith!

We all need to discuss the war of the "Girdle of Goroth"... this is getting way out of hand. I suggest we schedule a time to discuss the war outside of the forum. Alot needs to be discussed and I do not have the time to list it all here.

Until that time let's put the war on hold until things are straightened up.

Elbereth

08-24-2002, 12:10 AM

I'm going to be away from TTF for a few days. My friend is getting married and she is having a weekend long bachelorette party. I will try to be back on TTF by Sunday night. No promises! :cool:

Arathin

08-24-2002, 02:30 AM

have fun, Elbereth.

And yes, I do read this thread people.

¤-Elessar-¤

08-24-2002, 09:19 PM

um... just a suggestion... the west kindof... GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER!

good lord, your making this far to easy for Dengen and all of us on this side! The west has no chance if they allow us to divide and conquor them! The more war fronts you have, the worse you will be. We simply have too high of a numrical advantige. Try unifying some of those armies, or something... I mean, geeze....

Ciryaher

08-24-2002, 10:31 PM

First of all, when you have a multi-front attack, you can't just group up and leave one place to get sacked.

Second, I'm still waiting for Snaga to edit his post in the north.

The forces of Mornclaur need to pay attention to everyone's posts because you are overlooking a lot of things.

¤-Elessar-¤

08-25-2002, 03:08 AM

quite sorry, Ciryaher. It just seemed to me that you were all sitting around reading posts, and not bothering to do anything about them. I had no clue that Snaga had a post that needed to be edited somewhere.

Ciryaher

08-25-2002, 08:44 AM

Yeah, I PMed him with a lengthy list of evidence and requested changes...but he's away, so I've had to wait.

Arathin

08-25-2002, 06:59 PM

Well I also have a post that Snaga needs to reply to. So I can't do anything as I have nothing to do until he posts again. Elessar, read before you say something like that.

Elbereth

08-27-2002, 02:25 AM

My week is going to be very busy...so I won't be able to post anything for a while for the war...

If you could be so kind as to not siege anymore territories while I'm gone...I'd appreciate it! thanks ;)

Eomer Dinmention

08-28-2002, 04:25 AM

I am at school and my home comp is stuffed so i won't be able to get on that often. But i will try

In the mean time i trust Cir to take care of my military army. Thankyou
Eomer

Ciryaher

12-09-2002, 10:46 PM

I want to express my infinite distaste and scorn for the way that the newly-arrived participant to this war handled itself.

Rangers, if I *ever* see a post as ridiculous as the one I saw on "March from the North", I will bar you from future participation in the war. Your post didn't even follow the bare rules of RPing! Slaugtering an army more than 20,000 strong with less than 1000 men? Running in with SIEGE WEAPONS?! Do you even know what a siege weapon is for? SIEGE! Not a guerilla attack! For Eru's sake...come on, people! Use your brains!

I have removed every post starting with the first one to deviate. Please try again.

Ecthelion

12-10-2002, 02:59 AM

I truly thought it wasnt as bad as you say it is. Look at it like this. For all Mornclaur forces knew it could have very well be your Arnorian forces attacking again in which you would outnumber them. And only 5 siege weapons isn't enough for a normal siege which is why I chose only that many, but I would still like to say on behalf of The Rangers and Heren Istarion that we are sorry.

Ciryaher

12-10-2002, 04:20 AM

If Arnorian forces attack, an Arnorian will say so.

Ecthelion

12-10-2002, 02:21 PM

What I meant was that Mornclaur would have THOUGHT it was Arnor making them not want to attack back.

Ciryaher

12-10-2002, 04:37 PM

Orcs aren't blind, and certainly not in the dark. They could count how many enemies there are.

And as for siege weapons, this is not Age of Empires where siege engines can be rapidly created and deployed for your amusement. It would take hours (if not days, depending on the device) to set one up and move it into position. With less than 1000 troops against 20,000, you would not be able to defend your engines against the counterattack that would happen.

As for oliphaunts, tell me exactly how the Haradrim let you have them when they are part of Mornclaur, and then tell me how you got them from Harad to the Weather Hills, and then tell me what you're feeding them and where you kept them.

Elbereth

12-23-2002, 12:15 AM

I will be doing a great deal of business and personal travel for the next month and a half, therefore, I will be unable to post anything in the war threads for long while...

While I am gone...I will be appointing Nenya as Steward or Gondor and head of the Gondorian army. If you have any question about this change...please PM or MSN IM me.

Thank you.

Elbereth
Queen of Gondor.

Turgon

01-01-2003, 08:43 PM

Due to popular request, Agarloth Serewing hereby sumbits the number and disposition of his ships - according to the Courtesies of War.

Corsair Fleet
Grand Admiral Agarloth Serewing

25 Great Ships
50 Corsair Galleys

2nd Fleet of Mornclaur - The Black and the Gold
Admiral Salahir

The Black

50 Mornclaur Men o' War
50 War-galleys

The Gold

25 Great Ships
50 Mornclaur Men o' War
50 War Galleys
50 Ships of Other Note

Nenya Evenstar

01-01-2003, 09:55 PM

I am posting here to simply let you all know that yes, I am reading the War. Please forgive me if I'm a little slow, but you have no idea how hard it is to figure out what is going on when you enter a war in the middle without any previous knowledge of what is going on. So, please bear with me! :)

¤-Elessar-¤

01-01-2003, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by Turgon
Due to popular request, Agarloth Serewing hereby sumbits the number and disposition of his ships - according to the Courtesies of War.

Corsair Fleet
Grand Admiral Agarloth Serewing

25 Great Ships
50 Corsair Galleys

2nd Fleet of Mornclaur - The Black and the Gold
Admiral Salahir

The Black

50 Mornclaur Men o' War
50 War-galleys

The Gold

25 Great Ships
50 Mornclaur Men o' War
50 War Galleys
50 Ships of Other Note

heh, that's an old trick of Mike's, so that you cannot change anything after you see why Ciryaher's name translates to Ship King.

Turgon

01-01-2003, 11:15 PM

Mmm... is that so Elessar? I posted those numbers as a courtesy to Anamatar and the poster formerly known as Nain... I know full well what Ciryaher means - and who the original Ciryaher was... I joined this war to participate in some good old fashioned storytelling - not to play tricks upon people...

¤-Elessar-¤

01-01-2003, 11:30 PM

no need to sound bitter over it. I meant no offense, I was just trying to make sure everyone played fair.

Now Dengen, I will acount the horse-loss somewhere around 1500? If Lord Ciryaher approves. Such a small group of men could get few more, for the Rohorrim love their steeds, and their steeds are very, very smart.

Turgon

01-01-2003, 11:43 PM

I'm not bitter Elessar, and no offence taken... just wanted to clarify my intentions... I posted those figures because I was asked for them, and I'm a firm believer in fair-play myself... Hehe - 'tis a pity the same cannot be said for Serewing...;)

Dengen-Goroth

01-02-2003, 12:26 AM

Perhaps a number nearer to 2,000 would do, some 1,800. Mind you, though the horses may be smart they couldn't avoid being killed if they're tied to a post. And when considering how many able horses are left remember the injured, for though they may heal they won't be able to be used for some time.

¤-Elessar-¤

01-02-2003, 05:40 PM

yes. I remembered injured. Please read my post, it has all of the things that I thought of to take into consideration.

The horses are smart, they can kick and run, and we never said that they were tied, t'was an assumption. Also, the men of Rohan love their horses, and would fight like hell to protect them.

¤-Elessar-¤

01-02-2003, 06:25 PM

oh, and yes, Mornclaur, what forces do you have at or en-rout to Minas Tirith, I have read them many times, but numbers in your post still seem to elude me.

Nenya Evenstar

01-03-2003, 06:08 PM

I wish to ask for a temporary halt in the Girdle of Goroth. I do not know what I am working with and will not know until I can talk to certain people. I have been unable to make contact with those people as of yet. So, I would ask that the forces of the Mornclaur would not post anymore until I know where I stand. Thank you! :)

¤-Elessar-¤

01-03-2003, 09:44 PM

yes, we still have people to make contact with, and we must, of course, know the numbers of the army they are up against.

Nenya Evenstar

01-08-2003, 04:20 AM

I will be ready to start RPing in the war again as soon as I can know the sizes of the forces I am up against. :)

Dengen-Goroth

01-08-2003, 10:57 PM

I will post shortly. Though I would also wish to know the forces i'm up against:)

Nenya Evenstar

01-09-2003, 01:20 AM

Hmmm... how does this usually work? What are the rules about this? For example, Dengen has no way of knowing in the RP certain things about me, and I'm sure that I have no way of knowing certain things about him. This, I believe, includes certain troup numbers. However, certain things (such as the number of enemy troups in the Pellenor which is 100,000) are things that my troups can see. Another example is the number of Dengen's ships in the Anduin near Minas Tirith. I can also see Aei's and Drygo's armies very easily as well as the ships in the Bay of Belfalas. I think it is more than fair that I should know the amount of troups in these situations. That is all I ask: that I know the number of troups that I can visibly see. I will give the same.

¤-Elessar-¤

01-11-2003, 11:31 PM

It's rather complex, but simple at the same time. The forces posted will only be the ones that are 'engaged' in battle. I have already given Dengen the numbers for Gondor, or at least the lastest ones I was aware of.

And, since the battle is in Gondor, it would be natural that gondor would know more of situations and numbers than their assailent, because their scouts are more adapt to the land. And also, pilaging armies are usually given away by survivors, or people who escaped villages. So their relative locations and paths are available by logic.

I have nothing to say on the ship-subject. I don't know enough in the general area, even to the point of knowing where the ships are, to give my oppinion.

And just remember, everything is for the story. Don't whine, it causes people not to like you.

Nenya Evenstar

01-12-2003, 12:00 AM

Elessar, I know exactly where all the armies are -- I just don't know numbers. :)
And just remember, everything is for the story. Don't whine, it causes people not to like you. Why thank you!

Nenya Evenstar

01-13-2003, 07:32 PM

Gondorian Troup Numbers:

Anfalas and Andrast: 21,195 (16,000 standing in the Pellenor awaiting the onslaught towards Minas Tirith)
Rohirrim: 30,000
Other (not known as of yet): 86,600

The Gondorian Navy numbers 375 warships.

5,000 militia are stationed inside every Gondorian city.

Dáin Ironfoot I

01-17-2003, 11:32 PM

OK, I dont mean to sound ignorant, but can anyone acurrately describe what is going on in the March from the North? I am very lost, and I know I am not the only one. What I think is going on is the Mornclaur dropped off some forces and then they kept going and Cir has a secret navy, and yea Im lost. I dont think I ve got this right... can someone please explain?

¤-Elessar-¤

01-23-2003, 01:34 AM

The hunter landed with his forces, which were quickly backed up by a small bit of Mornclaurian forces. That is all I know.

Ciryaher, if you would, could you please describe, in a bit more detail, what you've done with the Militia outside of the ring?

Ciryaher

01-23-2003, 03:04 AM

Ok, i'm going to tell you, but you can't use this for your tactical advantage...it's just so you can't say I cheated.

I sent a couple hundred archers into the hills and forests around and south of Bree. The defense lines have shifted so that they protect every side of bree, but least in the north.

Dáin Ironfoot I

01-23-2003, 08:52 PM

OK... what happened to the newer posts in the March from the North?

Nenya Evenstar

01-23-2003, 08:59 PM

Go here: http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9188 :)

Ciryaher

01-23-2003, 10:55 PM

Yes, since the sea-battle was really heating up, I didn't want it to be mixed in with the land battles. So, I split the thread :)

Anamatar IV

01-23-2003, 10:58 PM

I have a question: A while ago Turgon posted the numbers of his ships, well it seems most of them are fighting at sea.

So my question is WHO (not how many mind you;)) if fighting against Mithlond on land?

¤-Elessar-¤

01-25-2003, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by Ciryaher
All of Arnor's troops are inside the Inner Ring, which is the collective borders of Arthedain, Cardolan, Breeland, and The Shire. All of the militias have been assimilated into distinct groups which guard the major (abandoned) cities outside the Ring. The Navy is still moored at the havens of Forlond and Harlond, though several ships are at Himling.

This was actually what I was wondering about, but if you don't feel comfortable giving any elaboration, or the more desired numbers, I would understand.

Ciryaher

01-25-2003, 11:41 PM

They're guarding the major cities outside the Ring, such as Imladris, Meltestastia, Helkamardi, Tharbad, etc.

Ciryaher

01-27-2003, 10:30 PM

Yet again, established fact is cast aside.

Snaga, until Telchar tells me himself that he allowed your troll-offal to pass through the Misty Mountains, and that the Master of the Andiuin Vale allowed you to pass through his realm, your post will not stand observed.

Lord Telchar controls the Hithaelgir all the way up to nigh Gundabad, and if the trolls had come from there, they would have met a tremendous army.

The Dark Legion's new habit of pathetic raiding parties and cowardly sneak attacks are most amusing. Is Master Serewing the only of your ranks that understands the concept of a true war? Or are these underhanded attacks going to be the norm from the mass-rabble of the Dark Legion.

Only one of you do I have respect for, and that is Lord Serewing and his Umbarian forces. Worthy foes are hard to come by.

Snaga

01-27-2003, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by Telchar
I should have said that Snaga posts for me.. I don't get much time online nowdays, due to work and my search for a new apartment/house..

Edit: And if i'm not totaly mistaking, i think i said that he could post for me a while ago.. You have this already stated earlier in the thread, Herr Penngriston. The trolls live in the Misty Mountains. No problems with visas here!;)

Ciryaher

01-28-2003, 01:01 AM

Very well.

Just recall that the trolls of the Ettensmoors and the Misty Mountains are turned to stone when exposed to the Sun. They are not of Sauron's breed (if you had said before, then you might have held the argument).

Nenya Evenstar

01-30-2003, 11:48 AM

I'm afraid me little hearties, that you cannot go around declaring that it is Nenya who betrayed you. I have planned this out accordingly. It was NOT Nenya because it does not fit any picture whatsoever. There is a usurper on the throne of Gondor at the moment. I am afraid that no one can dictate what my character does. Nenya is sided completely with the West. Tarla, the usurper, is not. If I wish to have a good and a bad character that is my choice. No questions asked. If I choose in the long run to have Nenya be the betrayer, that is my prerogative. If I choose to have Nenya stay loyal that is also my prerogative. No one can dictate that but me.

You cannot change the course of the RP. Nenya has been captured by the Mornclaur without a doubt. Tarla is now on the throne of Gondor and DOES exist whether you believe it or not. General Maedhros has been captured and Dol-Amroth and all troups have surrenered. Everything I said in my post is true. Valar (if he is around) is in prison in Minas Tirith. Elbereth is the only free link. I suggest you work with what you have, not twist the facts until they are no longer true. That is something you do not have the power to do.

Ciryaher

01-30-2003, 09:29 PM

If anyone is twisting the facts, it is you.

The people of Gondor would never surrender so easily, and if you are so base as to think they would, I think you should pick up a copy of The Lord of the Rings and read it again.

Nenya Evenstar

01-30-2003, 10:48 PM

The people of Gondor's loyalty is to their ruler. If ordered from higher up to surrender, they will do so. They serve Gondor first and foremost.

Dáin Ironfoot I

01-30-2003, 11:30 PM

Now I know I have nothing to do with the Girdle of Goroth but I am posting in this war, and every post affects everyone in the war. I realize Nenya's post was sudden and astonishing to some, but give her a chance to work her magic. If it's one thing I know about Nenya, her RPing skills are extraordinary and allthough I'm sure she would disagree, I believe her to be one of the BEST if not thee BEST RPer in TTF. She has been with me through thick and thin, as I myself had been attacked and yelled at for my posts, even if there was naught wrong with them.

Nenya has a plan. She has a brilliant mind and NENYA is NOT the traitor, it is the other woman Tarla. Elebereth's post simply put, ruined her plans for the ultimate glorification of the RPing world. I know you all know Nenya is an honest and sincere RPer and person moreso. She is a GREAT friend and it is now time for me to be there for her as she has been for me countless times in the past. Being an adequate RPer myself, I put my whole reputation on the line for her, and I ask you to just trust her and let her do her thing, because we will all be better for it in the end.

¤-Elessar-¤

01-31-2003, 01:40 AM

hmm... well, I haven't read these posts yet, but, just by judging what has been posted here, I have a feeling I will be slightly disgusted. And I have a feeling I may have to speak to Cir.. and to Nenya.... meh, things are getting complicated.

meh... now I'm really confused.

Alright. It's obvious that Elbereth's post, no offense, cannot stand. Nenya was in power, and what she did has every qualification for a plot twist. It may be cruel, and it may look as thought it will be a bi*ch to handle, but we have to accept it. Meh... Cir, if your on here, I think we should discuss... and Elb too...

Ecthelion

01-31-2003, 02:29 AM

I am also confused, so is Gondor surrendering or not? If not, my post in the Gulf od Lhun thread will be deleted.

Anamatar IV

01-31-2003, 02:32 AM

Is there that much to discuss? Really.....

Assume Gondor has surrendered (which it has) can't we just go on? If you have as much hope as you displayed in the Temple of Heren Istarion, Ciryaher, then Gondor falling would not matter so much.:rolleyes:

Evil winning for a change might be original....wouldn't it?

Okay I think you'd all love it if I shut up about now....:rolleyes:

Elbereth

01-31-2003, 04:52 AM

I have no problem with plot twists. In fact...had I known what was going to happen to Gondor...I probably wouldn't have objected so strongly. However, I NEVER gave complete power of Gondor to Nenya.

I appointed her Steward to protect Gondor during my leave. She did not have complete rule of the land. I expected to be informed of all major tactical employments of the Gondorian Army. Therefore, I was shocked and horrorified to see my trust betrayed by the one person I put total trust in. I should have been notified and informed well ahead of time, but instead I was kept in the dark.

I have no doubt that Nenya is a great rpg'er...that why I chose her to join Gondor's forces...and I'm sure she had a great plan. But I can not sit by and let Gondor be conquered in this fashion. I would rather have that war deleted off TTF than to carry it on as it is.

Elbereth

01-31-2003, 02:17 PM

Let me now pose a question to all the other rpg leaders in this war.

What would be your reaction if one of your appointed leaders (whether it be Governor or General, ect.) who you chose to help defend your nation, went behind your back and surrendered (even just a little piece of) your land to the enemy?

I do not think you would be happy with it...no matter how good of a rpg'er that person may be. Now think how I must feel right now to have my entire nation taken away from me without prior notice. I do not think my reaction is far off base.

Dáin Ironfoot I

01-31-2003, 02:56 PM

While I do not want the West to fall, sometimes things happen. What good is a war if no one can lose their cities or battles? I do not think it fair that JUST the bad guys lose all the time, I think we need to lose some things as well, it is more realistic that way. This war is a game, but it is still like war in that **** happens. Remember Napoleon, who was ambushed on his way back home by his "allies", or when Pearl Harbor was attacked, or the fall of Paris in WWII, or the Americans pulling out of Vietnam. Things happen we dont expect, but it is history, and life has moved on. Nenya's post is history, and I think we should move on...

I will do my duty to uphold the West, but that is me. Nenya did pull an "outrageous" stunt, that is true and I would be mad if I were in your position if I were you Elbereth. But I dont think it fair to delete whatever happened, because we can get past it in a more creative way.

Nenya Evenstar

01-31-2003, 07:06 PM

First off, I do not understand why some of you are taking this personally. I have had my little "evil" splurge, if you will, and cannot say I regret it. The only thing I regret is losing Elbereth's friendship. That is something that is a deep blow to me. Obviously you do not know me very well. If you are taking this out against me as a person then you all need to get a life. This is a game and if you decide to take the things that happen in this game personally that is not my fault. I, had Elbereth done something like this, would NOT have lost all trust. I know her and know that she has a good heart and is a wonderful person. I would trust her to know that, though things may be crazy for a while, she would bring things back to normal (or semi-normail). She has my trust.

Now, as Elessar and Dain have said, what I did was completely fair. I was given charge of the entirety of Gondor. I am the only person who knows exactly where the troops are stationed, I am the only person who knows the battle plans, I am the only person who knows what is going on with the Navy, I am the only person who knows what is going on period. You say you did not give me complete control over Gondor and that I was supposed to protect it? I was unaware of this. I was under the impression that I was supposed to fight a war. Therefore, I assumed that driving the enemy out of the country would be welcome. Even though I did not do that, those were my orders. I was given an army to work with and a country to fight in for a little while. In such a position a coup d'etat is not anything new.

Perhaps I should give a little explanation? Since some of you seem to have forgotten how I am as a person, I guess it's needed. :( Yes, I do have a plan. However, this plan is extremely unexpected and people will probably be unhappy for a while. However, once accomplished, I do not think anyone will regret it. I am not base enough to forsake the West. That is something I cannot do. Though things may be unexpected, I would never do that.

Ciryaher

01-31-2003, 11:53 PM

The problem is that you surrendered a land that was not yours to surrender. What happened won't be changed, but the fact that you abused beyond belief your powers cannot be changed.

Aerin

02-01-2003, 05:24 AM

Yes, hello, good-day and all that. I'm back, and am ready to get back into the war.

I just read the relevant threads, and I think that Nenya's post was absurd. For one thing, as has been pointed out already, the people of Gondor would not merely bend as grass in the wind; they would fight against Mornclaur until the last breath. Gondorians are of a strong stock, and would not bend to evil so easily.
Being in complete control of Gondor is very different from temporarily taking charge. Come to think of it, this rather reminds me of Denethor being unwilling to give Aragorn the throne.... Even though Denethor was in charge of Gondor, that did not mean he had unlimited power.

Nenya, frankly, it doesn't matter what kind of person you are. I'm sure you're a very good human being, but that does not have any relevance on the story. If you want, you can ask my friends what kind of person I am, and what kind of character I play in one RP. They've even come up with a rather nasty, insulting name...:rolleyes:

Elbereth

02-01-2003, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by Nenya Evenstar
First off, I do not understand why some of you are taking this personally. I have had my little "evil" splurge, if you will, and cannot say I regret it. The only thing I regret is losing Elbereth's friendship. That is something that is a deep blow to me. Obviously you do not know me very well. If you are taking this out against me as a person then you all need to get a life. This is a game and if you decide to take the things that happen in this game personally that is not my fault. I, had Elbereth done something like this, would NOT have lost all trust. I know her and know that she has a good heart and is a wonderful person. I would trust her to know that, though things may be crazy for a while, she would bring things back to normal (or semi-normail). She has my trust.

First of all, let me begin by saying that the very reason that I choose someone to take my place in the war these past few months was because I do have a life. Unlike, most of you posting here...I have a career and in the last few months that career has taken me away from my computer and TTF. I made it a point to tell how long I would be unavailable...esp. to the key players of Gondor (ie: Narya, Nenya & Cir) and explained when I would be able to post again (which was at the end of January...and possibly the end of Feb....as I would be away on business during that time). My explicit instructions to all involved was to protect Gondor at all cost! That was it...that was the requirement!

Now to answer your question: Why am I taking it personally?

I am taking it personally, because I do not tolerate someone who lies to me. You told me that you will do everything in your power to protect my lands, so that I will not have to worry about the war while I am busy with my real life issues. And to make matters worse...when you decided take it upon yourself to throw away my nation to the enemy...you neglected to warn me of it. I had to hear about it from a third party! Had I been warned, and told of what was going on...I probably wouldn't have had a problem with it at all...because ultimately I did trust you Nenya. However, the way this all went down was full of conceit and backstabbing. How could anyone trust someone who plays that game?

Originally posted by Nenya Evenstar
Now, as Elessar and Dain have said, what I did was completely fair. I was given charge of the entirety of Gondor. I am the only person who knows exactly where the troops are stationed, I am the only person who knows the battle plans, I am the only person who knows what is going on with the Navy, I am the only person who knows what is going on period. You say you did not give me complete control over Gondor and that I was supposed to protect it? I was unaware of this. I was under the impression that I was supposed to fight a war. Therefore, I assumed that driving the enemy out of the country would be welcome. Even though I did not do that, those were my orders. I was given an army to work with and a country to fight in for a little while. In such a position a coup d'etat is not anything new.

Yes you were suppose to fight a war...but you are suppose to fight the war under the instructions of the ultimate leader...Queen Elbereth of Gondor. Yes I instructed you to drive the enemy out...and yet you welcomed them through the front door of Gondor with milk and cookies!

I agree a coup d'etat is not anything new. However, if that is the game you like to play Nenya...I'm all for it...but this time...we're playing by my rules:

If you do not remove your post from the war threads....I will have no other alternative than to resign my post as Queen of Gondor...and as a result...I will delete every single post that I have ever created concerning the current war 'The Girdle of Goroth'. Nenya, it is up to you!

Nenya Evenstar

02-01-2003, 10:10 AM

I am taking it personally, because I do not tolerate someone who lies to me. You told me that you will do everything in your power to protect my lands, so that I will not have to worry about the war while I am busy with my real life issues. And to make matters worse...when you decided take it upon yourself to throw away my nation to the enemy...you neglected to warn me of it. I had to hear about it from a third party! Had I been warned, and told of what was going on...I probably wouldn't have had a problem with it at all...because ultimately I did trust you Nenya. However, the way this all went down was full of conceit and backstabbing. How could anyone trust someone who plays that game? I will have you know that I NEVER lied to you once. I never even started planning this until very recently. I would never lie straight to someone's face, much less your's. I am not that base or that stupid. When I said I would protect Gondor, I meant it. I also took great pains to wait UNTIL YOU RETURNED to post this for the express purpose of not doing it behind your back. I could have done it sooner, but I refrained from doing so so that I did not backstab you. The thought did not even cross my mind to warn you first. I'm sorry, I should have told you in an email when I posted it. I was at fault there, but I honestly did not even think about it. Please forgive me!
Yes you were suppose to fight a war...but you are suppose to fight the war under the instructions of the ultimate leader...Queen Elbereth of Gondor.I never got any instructions! I was placed plop in the middle of this RP and had to figure every single thing out for myself. Cir would barely even give out any help. Elessar was the only kind person willing to help me. Yes, Elbereth, you did help me ONCE but only with things I had already figured out myself. I fail to see any instructions. However, EVERY time I talked to you about the War I was in full dedication to protecting Gondor. It wasn't until a week before you returned that I started to plan this. I did not talk to you from then on until you got back and then not of the War. There was no backstabbing.
I agree a coup d'etat is not anything new. However, if that is the game you like to play Nenya...I'm all for it...but this time...we're playing by my rules:

If you do not remove your post from the war threads....I will have no other alternative than to resign my post as Queen of Gondor...and as a result...I will delete every single post that I have ever created concerning the current war 'The Girdle of Goroth'. Nenya, it is up to you!
I am sorry, but I have absolutely no respect for your deleting posts. If you people in the West cannot handle losing just once then you really need to wake up to reality. Get some humility for goodness sakes! I can only guess that you have Cir's approval of this.

The game you have outlined that I play is not the game I like to play. The only thing I even remotely did wrong was not inform you myself, and I have admitted to that. Unfortunately, I did not think of it. You may play by your rules if you like, but I will neither accept them nor acknowledge them. I can easily fill in any gaps that are left. I have every single post printed out on paper. What has happened has happened, and by deleting posts in such a manner you merely announce yourself as a poor sport. It makes no sense. But, life will go on even in the War RP's if you do.

I'm terribly sorry things have come to this. I had absolutely no intentions for this to happen.

Elbereth

02-02-2003, 04:42 AM

However, EVERY time I talked to you about the War I was in full dedication to protecting Gondor. It wasn't until a week before you returned that I started to plan this. I did not talk to you from then on until you got back and then not of the War.

That is where you lied to me.

We did chat several times since I have returned from my business trips...and you had several opportunities to tell me what you had planned for Gondor. Your silence spoke volumes about your honesty.
I am sorry, but I have absolutely no respect for your deleting posts. If you people in the West cannot handle losing just once then you really need to wake up to reality. Get some humility for goodness sakes! I can only guess that you have Cir's approval of this.

The game you have outlined that I play is not the game I like to play. The only thing I even remotely did wrong was not inform you myself, and I have admitted to that. Unfortunately, I did not think of it. You may play by your rules if you like, but I will neither accept them nor acknowledge them. I can easily fill in any gaps that are left. I have every single post printed out on paper. What has happened has happened, and by deleting posts in such a manner you merely announce yourself as a poor sport. It makes no sense. But, life will go on even in the War RP's if you do.

I honestly don't care if you respect my decision to delete my posts or not...that is my perogative to do it and it has nothing to do with the other members of the 'West'. Cir had no knowledge of my decision to delete my posts and would probably be against it had he known. Let it also be clear that my decision has nothing to do with whether the west wins this war or not.
The fact is... that post is a shining example of your disrespect to me and the trust that I gave you to you. The fact that it remains simply shows me how much respect you had for me in the first place...and I want nothing to do with that. Start the war anew....I don't care. But if that post remains...I don't want to have anything to do with the rpg wars again.

Morwen

02-02-2003, 04:43 AM

Now you must feel lucky, for I do not normally post in such matters:

First of all, everybody needs to just hold on to their panties. It doesn't help that everyone is getting overly upset. As I always say, it's life; get used to it.

Yes, Nenya, it would've been preferable if you HAD informed Elbereth of your intentions...but every single person, I mean everyone, makes mistakes. You're all acting like she has committed this terrible sin. The fact is that what she is doing is far more interesting, and entertaining, then what all the other blokes in this war are attempting to do. So just give her a break...so what if it was truely, legally, morally, and justfully incorrect. Life doesn't flow like that. She was in charge of things while Elbereth was away; let her control what she will.
Yes, while it does seem a little absurd that Gondor would surrender so complacently, it happened. The thing is, we have no idea what is ticking away in Nenya's mind. Perhaps this sudden coup and surrender fits the bill perfectly.
All I say is don't judge her until the last hand is played.

Elbereth

02-02-2003, 05:08 AM

Morwen, I appreciate your opinion.

However, I stand by my decision. If the post remains...I will leave.

Nenya Evenstar

02-02-2003, 10:18 AM

After a long talk with Elbereth, I have edited my post somewhat. Some things have changed, but not much.

Elbereth, I regret and am very sorry that I did not speak to you earlier. It was a major mistake on my part. I should have trusted you especially since it was my duty. Please forgive me! Thankfully, we understand each other once more. I am terribly sorry for any trouble this incident may have caused you. :(

Anamatar IV

02-02-2003, 05:30 PM

I see your editted part....so what is the deal now? Is Gondor Mornclaur? The ships are still fighting........

Ecthelion

02-02-2003, 05:50 PM

I'm going to guess that the boats don't yet no that Gondor is surrendering and thats why their still fighting? Maybe?

¤-Elessar-¤

02-02-2003, 08:15 PM

As long as Elb isn't leaving! I'd sure hate to have to rule over Gondor ;)

Ciryaher

02-02-2003, 09:59 PM

*grins at Elessar*

Firstly, how does *my* name keep getting popped into this little argument? Nenya, I helped you out all I could, but I am not some omnipotent god, and I don't know where everything is unless it is mine or the enemy's. Therefore:
I was placed plop in the middle of this RP and had to figure every single thing out for myself. Cir would barely even give out any help.
Is false. So you can stop complaining about that because I helped you more than I should have, apparently.

Secondly, the issue is over, so let's leave it at that.

Arathin

02-03-2003, 02:21 AM

Amen to that Ciryaher!!!!

Nenya Evenstar

02-07-2003, 10:29 PM

I just wanted to point out that Anamatar is in prison....
In and around the city of Dol-Amroth the troops of the enemy marched at large, for the swift approaching army of Uldrick Aei received a message of surrender from the beleaguered city, and soon his troops were occupying the city and filling it with an aura of fear and dread. The citizens were confined to their quarters to be used when the approaching army of the Rohirrim reached the city. The leaders were imprisoned in the darkest of dungeons and allowed to see no light. Anamatar would have been in the city when it was taken and would have been one of the first to go down. :)

Arathin

02-08-2003, 02:42 PM

When Gondor fell, Anamatar was leaving Bree with HI... He was not anywhere near Gondor...

Just thought I would point that out.

Ecthelion

02-08-2003, 04:51 PM

I think Ingolemo is with HI and Anamatar is in Gondor

Anamatar IV

02-08-2003, 05:30 PM

Who says Anamatar is a leader?:confused:

¤-Elessar-¤

02-08-2003, 05:32 PM

Anam actually told me once that he was going to go to Amroth, but then again, I thought he and Ingolemo were one in the same... :confused:

Anamatar IV

02-08-2003, 05:36 PM

Well a while ago there WAS a plan for Anamatar (NOT Ingolemo) to be introduced in Dol Amroth and to have been made a captain but that plan never got off the ground. And to clear any confusion: Ingolemo is in the wars with Arnor, Anamatar (now) in Gondor. Anamatar has never been said to be a Lord or captain or anything of the sort.:)

Nenya Evenstar

02-08-2003, 10:14 PM

Anamatar has never been said to be a Lord or captain or anything of the sort. Except for the fact that Cir, me, and you all decided that you were in Dol-Amroth. I've got the plans I sent Anamatar in Dol-Amroth to show if you'd like. Anamatar began to take orders from me. Nenya the Steward of Gondor was in direct correspondence with him concerning the battle going on in the Bay of Belfalas. He received numerous orders. I'm very much afraid he WAS in Dol-Amroth and that he WAS the leader.

I'm talking about the character here Anamatar, not you. ;)

¤-Elessar-¤

02-13-2003, 11:53 PM

Ciryaher... just to draw something to your eyes...

This was posted by Anamatar on 2/7...

Ingolemo and the others of the Council of Heren Istarion rode with sixty soldiers behind them. Twenty spearmen, archers, and swordsmen.
Ingolemo knew where he had told the other groups to go, yet he did not know where they were, which route they took, or whether they took rode or plains. But he would lead his company over the roadless grasses north eastward from Annuminas.

And this by yourself on 2/8

As the forces of the Hunter and the Heren Istarion clashed to the southeast, the gates of Fornost Erain opened and a host marched out.

Their armour was of a blue shade, just as the Emperor's axe, Bregoldramb Naurlhûn. Upon their blue and silver breastplates was the Crest of Atannore emblazoned, and their blue swords were covered with silver runes. Their silver helms bore each an azure plume (ooc: think corinthian) and they word pale blue capes. These were the dreaded elite of Arnor, the Praetorian Guard of the Emperor, the Makarlhûn.

They marched at steady speed towards the city of Bree.

I just wanted you to know that the Praetorian Guard is in the wrong part of Arnor. The battle is north-east of Annuminas... I do beleive somewhere along the western side of the North Downs...

Nenya Evenstar

02-14-2003, 12:03 AM

In and around the city of Dol-Amroth the troops of the enemy marched at large, for the swift approaching army of Uldrick Aei received a message of surrender from the beleaguered city, and soon his troops were occupying the city and filling it with an aura of fear and dread. The citizens were confined to their quarters to be used when the approaching army of the Rohirrim reached the city. The leaders were imprisoned in the darkest of dungeons and allowed to see no light.
Anamatar is in prison.

Anamatar IV

02-14-2003, 12:09 AM

Again, why is Anamatar suddenly a leader? Yes, you gave me plans. These plans I couldn't make heads or tails of them and discarded them. It is obvious you did not use the plans you sent to me.....so how does sending me plans to be devoid make me a captain?

I remember from a convo with Ciryaher and you yourself, Nenya when he said he would make me a captain when he met me. That means that I currently was not a captain. It also means you were a witness to that.

In the rps Anamatar was never introduced as a captain. As far as I know, the Queen of Gondor was never informed of me being (or even becoming) a captain, either. I have Anamatar as a man of Dol Amroth and nothing more right now. I do believe it is up to me to decide what becomes of my own character.

Ciryaher

02-14-2003, 12:31 AM

There's no way you could have gotten there alive, Elessar. You'd have had to sneak out of Rhudaur, head north towards Angmar, then come back around from the northwest. Even then, you would have been spotted by the Arnorian watches. The North Downs are crawling with Arnorian soldiers, and these are the professional

So....somebody needs to change some posts.

Anamatar IV

02-14-2003, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by Ciryaher

So....somebody needs to change some posts.

I suppose it'd be easier if I did, right?

So I'll just change where I said north east to south east. Instead of fighting you, Elessar, on the western side of the north downs we will be fighting in the north west area of the Weather Hills. This would make more sense because it's closer to Imladris which you just sacked and where HI first saw you guys is just about the road we would take to get to Bree (as obviously Ingolemo's intention).

¤-Elessar-¤

02-14-2003, 02:23 AM

I suppose that you, Ciryaher, are right in saying that there really is no way for me to be up that far. But it is also not right for me to suddenly be stuck where I was sure I was not going to be. As far as I knew, Ciryaher was heading in the opposite direction of myslef. If the 'presence in the east' had been he instead of what lies in my plans, then I wouldn't have stayed to risk being captured by the PG.

Ciryaher

02-14-2003, 06:02 AM

The Makarlhun will remain in their current position, but will not attack, so you don't have to worry about being hit from another side unfairly (although this won't stop the HI from running south to join with the Makarlhun legionairres).

¤-Elessar-¤

02-14-2003, 10:52 PM

alright. The battle was not supposed to last long anyway. The only reason it did so was because HI wavered when they were given ample opportunity to retreat.

Nenya Evenstar

02-14-2003, 11:45 PM

Ok, Anamatar, face it! You were the person to lead Dol-Amroth appointed by Ciryaher to do so. You and I made the plans for you to post all the movements of Dol-Amroth. Don't say we didn't...because we did. So, if things hadn't changed in Gondor, you would be posting all the movements in that city. Anamatar was in charge.
Yes, you gave me plans. These plans I couldn't make heads or tails of them and discarded them. It is obvious you did not use the plans you sent to me.....so how does sending me plans to be devoid make me a captain?Hmm...I'm afraid it's not my fault you couldn't make heads or tails of my plans. I sent you the plans meaning for you to use them. That was all you needed to know. And you were going to use them too.
In the rps Anamatar was never introduced as a captain. As far as I know, the Queen of Gondor was never informed of me being (or even becoming) a captain, either. The Queen of Gondor was me at the time -- I WAS informed. Anamatar was never introduced in the RP's, no, but he did correspond with the ruler of Gondor and he was going to post for Dol-Amroth. As the leader of that place, he was put in prison.

Please don't complicate this! It's really quite simple!

Ciryaher

02-15-2003, 12:09 AM

Actually, no. I don't recall Elbereth ever appointing Anamatar to a leadership position, and seeing as she is the only Queen of Gondor, she is the only one (besides me) who can appoint a leader of Dol Amroth (I can because my family is the ruling family of Dol Amroth; as I have said, because I am descended from the Prince Imrahil and Halbarad the Dunadan). If you want a timeline of the leaders of Dol Amroth, it was Ciryaher, Eariel, and then Altaira Penngristion. No leader was appointed after she left the RP's here.

You're a Steward, not a Queen. Anamatar, the character who has no blood-claim of Dol Amroth, was not the leader or even high up in the echelon of Amroth, and thus he would not have been arrested.

Anamatar IV

02-15-2003, 12:12 AM

I never denied those meetings or those plans took place. What I am saying is that they were never made official.

i'll make you a captain when I get there

Thus Ciryaher spoke in our conversation. Cir is officially the prince of Dol Amroth. I THINK Dol Amroth is a province of the west (it has 5000 militia....as does every province but note NOT every city). If Dol Amroth is a province as well as a city it would take Ciryaher to be there to formally make me a captain.

Note how he said he'd make me a captain when he gets there. hmmm....I don't think Cir has posted something about being in Dol Amroth so I am not yet a captain.

You have said that you planned for Gondor's fall long ago. Meaning when you gave me the plans for Dol Amroth you were already plotting Gondor's fall.

What makes Anamatar all of a sudden a leader of Dol Amroth? Really, just suddenly introducing myself in the middle of a war and I'm a leader? Wouldn't it have made more sense if I had been a leader from the beginning? Yes it would....MUCH more sense then out of the blue posting to the surprise of all but two and claiming to be a leader of Dol Amroth.

As I said earlier, Ciryaher and Narya are the leaders of Dol Amroth. I never was the leader of it, even in our conversations.

In your next post (which I'm sure you'll make;)) say why Anamatar should out of the blue to the surprise of the entire world claiming to be a leader.

Tell me why "I'll make you a captain when I get there" all of a sudden means "you are a captain before I get there regardless of what I have told you while you were present. INstead you will follow decisions quite possibly made without your presence and thusly your consent."

Tell me why sending me plans that you obviously didn't even use makes me a captain.

Nenya Evenstar

02-15-2003, 12:28 AM

Is it just me or am I going insane? What is this? :confused:

I, Nenya Evenstar Steward of Gondor, corresponded directly with Anamatar of Dol-Amroth and told him all my plans for Dol-Amroth. He was to carry out those plans. When I, Nenya Evenstar, was captured by the Mornclaur I was torchured until I told those people who I had given my orders to. Since I corresponded directly with Anamatar of Dol-Amroth and gave him all my plans and since he was going to post all the movements of Dol-Amroth the Mornclaur concludes that he was in charge of Dol-Amroth. Therefore Anamatar of Dol-Amroth has been imprisoned in Dol-Amroth and labled its leader.

Is that simple enough?

Anamatar IV

02-15-2003, 12:34 AM

But it was never said in the rp that you said Anamatar's name. Infact in your post of the battle with the ships of Dol Amroth you used different characters than Anamatar. If Anamatar was indeed a captain of Heren Istarion of whom you had given plans to he would have been the one comanding that ship. He would be the one of whom you have called Grendale Ardeen or Admiral Holand Grady.

Can you answer my questions from the previous post?

Nenya Evenstar

02-15-2003, 12:44 AM

Anamatar was in the city, NOT on the ships (as you should have known). I fail to see your point.
Can you answer my questions from the previous post?Of course I can! I feel I have given a completely decent explanation so far!

Why must these things be so complicated? You guys are floundering here and trying to fish up anything you can to make any statement. I reside by my first statement:
I, Nenya Evenstar Steward of Gondor, corresponded directly with Anamatar of Dol-Amroth and told him all my plans for Dol-Amroth. He was to carry out those plans. When I, Nenya Evenstar, was captured by the Mornclaur I was torchured until I told those people who I had given my orders to. Since I corresponded directly with Anamatar of Dol-Amroth and gave him all my plans and since he was going to post all the movements of Dol-Amroth the Mornclaur concludes that he was in charge of Dol-Amroth. Therefore Anamatar of Dol-Amroth has been imprisoned in Dol-Amroth and labled its leader.

Ciryaher

02-15-2003, 01:11 AM

Regardless of whether or not he *was* imprisoned, he has now been freed by the forces that have retaken Dol Amroth.

Nenya Evenstar

02-15-2003, 04:17 AM

Forces have retaken Dol-Amroth? I beg to differ! You cannot take over Dol-Amroth so simply, Cir. I have just not gotten around to making a rebuttle of your last post yet. It cannot stand #1: because I have no idea where you came up with 100K troops and #2: because Dol-Amroth is nicely guarded.

Why do you make things so difficult? Cir, you really need to start posting fairly and within the bounds of the RP. You cannot just twist whatever you want to twist! It will not work!

Ciryaher

02-15-2003, 04:25 AM

Nummer 1: You aren't part of Mornclaur, and so you won't be making any rebuttal. I will not accept any rebuttal from you, if you decide to make one. That is for the forces of Mornclaur to do, unless you declare that you fight for them.

Nummer 2: Any forces around Dol Amroth would have been thrown into shock by the appearance of such a force, and they would have been slaughtered, regardless of whether any rebuttal came from you, or anyone else for that matter.

Nummer 3: Those 100,000 Rohirrim came from Rohan. I've stated that countless times.

Nummer 4: With my instruction, men are able to enter the city undetected, and so no matter what defense you had, it would still lose.

I beg to differ! Twisting and manipulating is the best way to win a war, as long as you are straightforward about it ;)

Dáin Ironfoot I

02-15-2003, 04:40 AM

I find faults in both your arguments, and I do not like the idea of fabricating evil plans and soldiers out of thin air.

Twisting and manipulating is the best way to win a war

Yea? And its also the best way to make people lose your trust and disrespect you. Maybe you should think of what this manipulating will do in the future... its just adds more distrust to an already decietful West.

And Nenya, my dear, I quite frankly dont understand what in God's name you are doing... but I do find it a little odd that you would be questioning all of Arnor's actions, even if they be so questionable, and they most certainly are. Elessar has pointed out many a mistake in Cir's posts, so I can understand your point if that is what you are coming from. However I am sure you are planning something... and I do hope it is for the glory of the West...

Ciryaher

02-15-2003, 04:54 AM

Deceitful?! Who's been deceitful? I haven't conjured soldiers out of thin air or anything like it. I'm using the army that Eomer Dinmenton left in my care, and if you want to argue, then you can argue with him.

You misquoted me, and left out the wink. Don't make yourself look like a fool by making me look evil.

Nenya, you seem to be arguing more on the part of yourself and Mornclaur than you seem to support the West, so which is the false front?

Dáin Ironfoot I

02-15-2003, 05:01 AM

Next time I wil be sure to check the facts before posting... but judging from some inaccurate posts in March from the North.. well what was I supposed to think?

And, another thing the West is full of lies and deciet. Look at whats going on right now. Cir, you are the leader of the free peoples of Middle Earth I thought? How is twisting and manipulating a good thing for a 'good' emperor to do? You DID say that... if you meant something other than what is written then by all means, post away mon ami.

Dengen-Goroth

02-15-2003, 02:36 PM

This is utterly ridiculous! Where to begin.
Point 1: Any forces around Dol Amroth would have been thrown into shock by the appearance of such a force, and they would have been slaughtered, regardless of whether any rebuttal came from you, or anyone else for that matter.
That is unbelievable. Scouts would not have noticed 100 K of the Rohorrim coming till they were finally upon them? They wouldn't have heard the approach of 100k horses!? Unless every one of the men in Dol Amroth is deaf, blind, and dumb that can not happen. You can't sneak in 100 k of cavalary, especially not in a full charge.
Point 2: Those 100,000 Rohirrim came from Rohan. I've stated that countless times.
Where did you get those numbers Cir? The last I checked Eomer stated: .Millitary Total= 65 000 to 67 000 mark, . That's 65,000 to 67,000 . 30,000 of which had left to defend Minas Tirith. That leaves between 35,000 and 37,000. There is also a major lapse in numbers in Rohan. From that 35,000 (at most) that was left you stated: .All told, there were nigh eighty thousands
Their captains assembled quickly and created a plan. Within the hour, sixty thousands made their way out of the city with Ciryaher leading. After taking a long rest, the remainder of the armies set out eastward, with Éodath in command.
/QUOTE] In the end, there is no possible way you could have had 100 k.
Point 3: [QUOTE]With my instruction, men are able to enter the city undetected, and so no matter what defense you had, it would still lose.
This is absurd. The men were able to enter the cit in such overwhelming numbers as to take at unawares a great force of Mornclaur and completely route them after they knew of the coming of the Rohorrim. The post must be changed, and until then I call for a cease to any posts in Girdle

Nenya Evenstar

02-15-2003, 05:09 PM

Hroom...let's just say that I'm doing something that no one expects, that probably some people won't like, and that will seem insane until it reveals itself in due course. :rolleyes: That's all you'll get from me.
Any forces around Dol Amroth would have been thrown into shock by the appearance of such a force, and they would have been slaughtered, regardless of whether any rebuttal came from you, or anyone else for that matter. I'd also like to remind you, Cir, that Nenya knew of an approaching force of Rohirrim that would be going to Dol-Amroth. During her interrogation that information would have been drug out of her and the Mornclaur forces at Dol-Amroth more than prepared for a surprise attack.

Anamatar IV

02-15-2003, 05:20 PM

Dol Amroth is pretty small being only a city.....can such a huge battle be fought there?:D

But really, the Dagorlad is a HUGE place. According to JeffF's Armies of Middle Earth thread there were 50 k on the good side in that battle. He said that the army then was about as big as it was during the war of the ring so that is about 117 k. So if 167 k soldiers fought on that HUGE battle plain why can a battle of 70-170 (depending on the number Ciryaher has) thousand soldiers be fought in one city?

¤-Elessar-¤

02-15-2003, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by ¤-Elessar-¤
yes, and this is as good a time as any to point something out... This is an rp made for a story. Sure, competetiveness will come, there is no doubt about that, but lets try to keep it at a minimum. We are just looking for a war where everyone can get along ooc. If anyone is being unreasonable, I am sure that the other members of the RP will be more than happy to dismiss them. Lets all have fun, ok?

Ciryaher

02-16-2003, 03:28 AM

I've made changes to my numbers and to the last paragraph. Everything remaining is perfectly reasonable. Now do stop whining, Dengen. You can't win them all.

Arathin

02-16-2003, 08:29 PM

I would just like to point out, on a side note to what Elessar just said, that you are all acting like the spoiled, whiny little brat children I have been babysitting all weekend. Seriously... all you are doing is squawbling over nothing. This whole rp war thing, is exactly that! an rp... I am all for fighting til death for your lands, etc, but this is none-sence. This was not started to make enemies of each other.

¤-Elessar-¤

02-17-2003, 12:08 AM

:D I knew I liked you for some reason ;) ...

¤-Elessar-¤

02-18-2003, 01:01 AM

A new position is joining the war of unspeakable torment, and it is known as Arandor. I will post it's military status and allegances soon, once I get them all drawn up.

Nenya Evenstar

02-18-2003, 09:32 PM

Hmm...just wanted to point out that I was already moving Arandor's troops by Cir's permission.... Oh well! :rolleyes: I guess no one really was in control of them anyway. :p

¤-Elessar-¤

02-18-2003, 11:28 PM

hmm... well, I wasn't aware that any actual moving had happened... but it wasn't posted, so it can't realy be verified.

Anamatar IV

02-19-2003, 01:53 AM

Elessar, is it safe to assume that you left Ingolemo and his 60 soldier guard and most of the larger group (the 100) of mine alive?

Dáin Ironfoot I

02-19-2003, 06:35 AM

I think so... but all of my troops (fifty I think?) died, minus Dain. They died to trap the hunter, but he miraculously escaped. Hmmm. And he never posted about Dain and Ingolemo beating him up... but uh.. o well, I dont wanna turn into a Nenya by pointing out every little detail.

Gotta love Nenya!:p

¤-Elessar-¤

02-20-2003, 02:31 AM

sorry Dain, I just read that. I hadn't had time to post much the past few days, and was being asked to 'continue' the story.

Anamatar IV

02-20-2003, 09:07 PM

Dol Amroth is pretty small being only a city.....can such a huge battle be fought there?

But really, the Dagorlad is a HUGE place. According to JeffF's Armies of Middle Earth thread there were 50 k on the good side in that battle. He said that the army then was about as big as it was during the war of the ring so that is about 117 k. So if 167 k soldiers fought on that HUGE battle plain why can a battle of 110 thousand soldiers be fought in one city?

Just so everyone knows, I WAS serious with this post. I don't want anything changed or anything. Just a quick explanation as to why such a huge battle can be held in the city.:)

¤-Elessar-¤

02-20-2003, 11:49 PM

well, when you think about it, 100,000 people easily fit into any modern day city.

I mean, when you take into account that Dol-Amroth is a few thousand years old, it wouldn't be that strange for it to be a giant city... And, most of our stuff is on a much larger scale than tolkien's middle earth. We had some sort of inflation between RP 5 and now, it's odd, really.

Ecthelion

02-21-2003, 12:10 AM

I always wondered how that happened Ellesar, how did the troop numbers grow so high? Also, maybe after this war to make things a little easier we could scale back down to the old Tolkien like numbers, or if everyone has more fun with thousands upon thousands of men I'll be just fine with that.

Ciryaher

02-21-2003, 02:38 AM

As I told you before, Anamatar, the entire battle is NOT in the city!!! There are a few thousand Rohirrim that went in, but the bulk is fighting outside the city walls.

Populations (especially of men) would increase dramatically in 900 years, and so the numbers are logical and ok.

Anamatar IV

02-21-2003, 02:43 AM

Ah but I didn't question the logic of the numbers.:D

Thanks for clearing this up for me, Elessar and Cir.

Nenya Evenstar

02-23-2003, 10:50 AM

hmm... well, I wasn't aware that any actual moving had happened... but it wasn't posted, so it can't realy be verified. Aye, aye, I'm going to have to start making an official log and dating everything...I need to come up with a system in which I can prove everything. ;)

Dain, but details are important. :p

For those of you who are wondering...no, I'm not back yet. Just sticking my head in for one lone night.

¤-Elessar-¤

02-28-2003, 11:40 PM

There is talk going around here of a restart to the wars. And, as everyone knows, Idle talk is no way of getting things done. So I say that we start the arguments now...

Personally, I wouldn't be against a restart. There is a huge time gap in the wars, from the beginnings and the recent stirrs that began in january. Much of what we had done was forgotten, and RPers from both sides had dropped their allegiances or their characters. I think that erasing it would be a good Idea, so that both sides could get organized again.

However, the main drawback is the lack of movement, or lack of players, really, for the side of Mornclaur. I think that if we can come to some sort of resolution on that problem, we may come to a resolution for or against a restart.

Dáin Ironfoot I

03-01-2003, 02:59 AM

Yes, we need more players for the Darker side of life. I suggest everyone show their true colors now, and no one will be mad. The fact is, if everyone posts about the good side (Arnor), well everyone understands. So maybe the DL should be talked with over this? An emissiary would be nice.

And as to a restart? Definitely.

Nenya Evenstar

03-01-2003, 08:05 AM

I would like to formally request that everyone refrain from discussing this topic until I get back from the forum a week from Sunday (March 8th). I'm still grounded from the 'net. But anyway, this entire subject touches ground that is extremely related to myself...I really hate to miss it.

Please Cir, Dengen, Galdor, everyone, could you wait for me to get back? :D (You all know why.) I'd really appreciate it!

Galdor

03-01-2003, 08:26 AM

Yes, Elessar, I was holding off on starting this thread until Nenya got back. So I will second her request to hold on this topic until she returns.

Thanks

Arathin

03-01-2003, 03:40 PM

I believe waiting until everyone who is majorly involved, Nenya mainly, is back/able to get on and discuss would be a good idea. Although I am glad Elessar brought this up as I hadn't heard of any such plans.

Ecthelion

03-01-2003, 08:02 PM

-->EDIT<--
I would just like to say that I think we should keep the war going, but if we do restart it I think we should keep the finished parts of the war(Rohan and The Capture of Isengard).

Elbereth

03-02-2003, 01:01 AM

I won't pose my position on whether I want the war restarted or not...not everyone is present. However, I think it would be best if a poll be started so that we keep track of where everyone stands on the topic.

Anamatar IV

03-12-2003, 12:31 AM

Okay, Nenya is back, everyone else seems to be here, and the war is incredibaly slow. So should we continue this so thusly getting back to the role playing sooner?:)

Dáin Ironfoot I

03-12-2003, 02:57 AM

Yes, lets start over now. Should there be a poll of some sort?

¤-Elessar-¤

03-15-2003, 03:26 AM

I say that we let Nenya speak her piece, as I assume that it will be the strongest toward anti-restart.

Nenya Evenstar

03-16-2003, 02:52 AM

Actually, I am proclaiming myself neutral at the moment. I would like to know from those of you who are for restarting the wars why exactly you want to restart them. That little detail seems to have slipped past me. :D

Ciryaher

03-16-2003, 06:59 AM

I think that we should restart, with some new rules implemented. There is hardly any organization, no moderation, and the Dark Legion simply doesn't have enough people to post for them. There should be no players playing on both sides, and we should balance out the sides so that there are enough players on both sides.

Nenya Evenstar

03-16-2003, 05:25 PM

And why should we restart now? Why not wait until this war is over before we implement any new changes? Just wanting info....

Anamatar IV

03-16-2003, 07:51 PM

Because there is no sure date as to when the war will end. It could go on for months or even years, what with the low level of organization. This thread was started 7 and a half months ago and look at where we are: there are basically the same boundaries, the same forces, yada yada yada. If it takes us another 7 or 8 months to get twice as far as we are now I wouldn't call us role players but that is how it will go with such little organization.

¤-Elessar-¤

03-16-2003, 08:29 PM

Yes, but on the side of anti-restart, there is no guarantee that any of the dark forces would participate at all if we restarted. We could loose all that they have already contributed, trading it for none.

Dáin Ironfoot I

03-17-2003, 03:33 AM

But on the side of pro-restart, we need to restart the war to properly introduce the Ohtar Valaina. If the DL will not participate in this war, then the OV can take their place as the bad guys, we are neutral afterall...

What a good way to acquire land

Nenya Evenstar

03-17-2003, 08:30 PM

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at that, Dain. ;)

I don't think that a good introduction to the newest "good" force would be to have them introduced as bad guys. You say you're neutral but you kind of aren't, unless there are some weird happenings. Ohtar Valaina and Heren Istarion are tightly linked.

The Ohtar Valaina can easily just enter the war where it is as a newly-formed body. After all, they are a newly-formed body.

Dengen should have a rather large say in this matter, IMO.

¤-Elessar-¤

03-19-2003, 03:02 AM

Yes, Dain. Please remember that our duties are to the Valar. And thus, the side of their will is ours. And the west best upholds those morals and values.

Elbereth

03-19-2003, 03:26 AM

I'm all for starting over, if it will bring some sanity to the war threads...however, I think if we decide to "start over" we need to discuss...what starting over will entail...since many members who were key parts in the story then...are no longer posting today. (ie: Valar, Eomer, Mithrondir, ect...)

Dáin Ironfoot I

03-19-2003, 03:26 PM

I think we need some views from the other side as well... wherever and whoever they are...

Turgon

03-19-2003, 08:30 PM

Speaking for the Men of Umbar - I'm all in favour of a restart too. However I see a few things that need addressing for any new war to work. Firstly it's obvious that the main problem with the last war was that not enough DL members were posting. This is a problem that I can see no solution to.

Secondly - I think this RP world of our is becoming a little stale. We have two powers in the land, a basic good and evil struggle, if this war is restarted I'd like to see a few more kingdoms in place. Gondor standing on its own, Rohan with a new king and so on, perhaps even a Dwarf and Elf Kingdom somewhere... this would bring some much needed politics back into the RP world.

Lastly in regard of Serewing and the Men of Umbar, we must be considered a neutral state from here on in. Restart or no.

Ilúvatar has given the lands of Middle-earth into the governance of man. And the Lord of Umbar will no longer tolerate non-human races meddling in our affairs. Be he elf or maia or goblin-damned.

So speaks Agarloth Serewing, Adûnakhôr.

Dáin Ironfoot I

03-19-2003, 08:48 PM

Well the Ohtar Valaina are a new power in the land, and we will do our best to make things as interesting as possible. Depending on how this new war will be and what it is based on, we can stay neutral or ally ourselves with whichever force best upholds the will of the Valar. As to any Dwarf-realms... well I would be glad to be more involved in THAT

;)

Anamatar IV

03-19-2003, 08:49 PM

On behalf of the Temple of Heren Istarion I say yea to the restart of the war. So much has happened involving the war yet not in the war recently and so much more is going to happen. The Ohtar Valaina has been recently added. If we play the war as if they suddenly get these powers or not at all then things will either be very confusing or very useless.

There have been so many disagreeing events in this war. The Fall of Gondor, the battles in Dol Amroth, the nobility of Anamatar and these are just a few that I can recall off the top of my head. It would be so much easier to just restart the war and get all this sorted out.

I know as a fact that at least one new organization planed on entering the war. It would be easier if they could enter right from the beginning.

Advocates of keeping the war as it is would probably argue for the most part that the war is well in, many things have happened, and there is no need to restart it. But the war is not that well in, in comparison to when (if?) it will end. Many things have happened. Yes, and most of them are questionable. For example, as it was not the proper ruler of Gondor who surrendered it there is still some question to it (though that has been for the most part sorted out.) There is no need to restart it? I see MUCH reason to restart it, my friends. Has it ever surprised you that suddenly out of the blue in the middle of a war a new organization calling themselves Heren Istarion sprout out of thin air and get involved? The same with the Rangers. The lord of Umbar was thrown into the middle of the war as the ruler of one of the most important places in the war.

My point throughout this has been simple. For complexity’s sake, for newcomer’s sake, let’s restart the war.

As for the lack of Mornclaur, it's only just because newcomers all want to fight for the good side and that's how it is gonna be. Maybe some of the older Rpers here could switch to Mornclaur? I dunno...I don't know how this COULD work. Probably couldn't even. Just a suggestion.

Dáin Ironfoot I

03-19-2003, 08:56 PM

Well you know, we could make the 'good' side twisted in the new war.

For instance, look at France now. They are one of the Allies, and a world power, but their government is doing immoral things in order to get the full amount of money from Iraqi contracts...

Maybe a vien of mithril could be found, and the West jumps for it, attacking the neutral Dwarves that guard it. Then Mornclaur could join in on the West, in defense of the Dwarves, and in turn the OV (Ohtar Valaina) could join with Morn. to uphold the law of the Valar!

How the tables could turn my friends! Give the darkness a moment to shine, and I guarantee members would flock towards it and revel in the glory of the night!

That was full of symbolism!!! O_o

Ciryaher

03-20-2003, 12:49 AM

If any of you recall RP5, we could do something similar to that, to make up for a lack of Dark Legion forces.

For those not in the know, RP5 was where Ciryaher was taken out of power by an election, then turned on Gondor after siding with Harad and Mordor. The war was very action-packed and seeing as we had powerful members on all sides, who could post often, it was very well-handled (except the eventual degeneration caused by the fire-headed Dengen and the sly Ancalagon ;)).

With a few changes, I think that this would be a good plot. I don't like being good all the time, anyhow ;)

Just an idea for the restart.

Arathin

03-20-2003, 02:14 AM

Also we could get DL more members using what Elessar has done so far in the current war. Have two characters for the people who are willing. No two good guys unless they are like Ciryaher's generals and such, but the main good character and then a made up evil one to make up for the lack of DL members posting. I personally would not mind having two characters in such a mannor.

Dáin Ironfoot I

03-20-2003, 03:24 AM

I think it necessary for the good guys to split up in this war, turn against one another for some reason, I personally like the mithril idea, but whatever we decide as a group we can do...

After the war ends this time, it should make for an exciting future with more parties and governments involved. I just wish Dengen would post, but I havent seen him in a loooong time...

Anamatar IV

03-20-2003, 03:30 AM

Dain and Cir, if we do do this where we redo all alliances and sides and everything we will have to redo the numbers, too. Like, we can't have Heren Istarion go up there with 1000 soldiers anymore. And likewise, it wouldn't be exactly "fair" for Mornclaur to go up there with 300 000 soldiers (or whatever the number is).

Aerin

03-20-2003, 03:49 AM

I'm for restarting the war. If we could pull off anything like RP 5, then we'll be doing just fine. ;) Hehe, seeing Ciryaher as a baddie was funny!

If we restart, then we'll definitely have to re-calculate the numbers. By the by, just how does Mornclaur justify such immensely huge numbers of troops?

Nenya Evenstar

03-20-2003, 05:00 AM

I have just a few things to say: I have so far only seen people say that we should restart the War simply because things are "complicated" and because of the newer groups wanting to join. As for the first one, yes, things are complicated, but I don't see how this justifies restarting the War. War is complicated. As for the second, we've gotten along just fine so far by just slipping those new people in nice and fine. Why do we want to restart right as things are getting exciting? I was the one who spiced it up. :D

But anyway, the whole complicated thing just doesn't make sense. I jumped into the war right in the middle, had to figure out what was going on on my own, and did just fine. It is complicated, but not nearly complicated enough to justify a restart for that reason.

My main concern is that people just want to restart to regain land and power that they've lost. Is that anyone's motives? I mean, restarting would put the entirety of Gondor back in the hands of the West, and would ultimitely be a great move for the West as a whole. I'm worried that some people are doing this because things are going poorly in the East. Do you want to restart because you're down over there? I hope that this idea is false . . . but I can't help but think it has a small ring of truth.

As for the lack of DL members, I've decided that, in the event of a restart, that I will ally myself with the DL. They need more posters and very few people seem willing to take on that position. So, I've decided that I will help them along a bit for the sake of the RP. I'll try my best . . . I don't know how good of an evil person I'll make. :rolleyes:

But as things are now, I still don't have sufficient reason as to why we should restart. I know I'm playing the devil's advocate, but I need more reasons.

Dáin Ironfoot I

03-20-2003, 05:25 PM

I dont know why people would want to restart for the sole purpose of regaining land... as with the new groups coming in there will only be land lost to these holders. All the land is claimed remember, so these people arent really regaining at all.

Some new groups are:

OV
Rangers
HI
Dwarf group
Elvish group

-At least that is the impression I got...

Another point is that key posters are now gone. Groups have dissolved that were previously involved (i.e. White Council) Lorien is gone, Mirthrander, Eomer, even Dengen, just to name a few. Also Nenya, while I love what you did, your surrendering of Gondor was what really got the ball rolling. That was mass confusion, and the Dol Amroth and Anamatar thing... I dont know if there was any resolution to that.

Point is, this war has been dead for about a month now, and has become more of a chore and a hassle to complete, or even post in. We need a fresh start, or else this war will never get done. We need new faces to replace the forgotten ones, and new ideas to replace these tired and drawn out arguments over little details.

Restarting the war, or making a new kind of war is the only way this can be solved. And Nenya- I am so happy to hear you are going to be in the DL. You can inspire the new members there to post in the war, but make sure you give them a history of what happened to not cause more confusion.

Calime Silvana for one is a good writer...

Anamatar IV

03-20-2003, 06:37 PM

Dengen's not gone. He just hasn't posted in a while.

Who are these Dwarvish and Elvish groups you speak of?

Yeah so uh can we start the poll yet? At least for whether or not we WILL restart it?:rolleyes:

Dáin Ironfoot I

03-20-2003, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by Turgon:

Secondly - I think this RP world of our is becoming a little stale. We have two powers in the land, a basic good and evil struggle, if this war is restarted I'd like to see a few more kingdoms in place. Gondor standing on its own, Rohan with a new king and so on, perhaps even a Dwarf and Elf Kingdom somewhere... this would bring some much needed politics back into the RP world.

Thats where I got those from... it sounded like a good idea...

Galdor

03-20-2003, 08:23 PM

It seems to me that Nenya and Dengen are just about the only ones still against restarting the war. So why don't we just go start a poll? It seems to me that we enough people who want to restart the war to win the poll.

No offence Nenya, but I doubt that anything anyone here can say will get you to change your mind. You seem set in the idea that we shouldn't restart, and in my expearience, when you set your mind on something, nothing, and I mean nothing can get you to change it......;):p

So anyway, I think a poll should now be made, because everything is really at a stand still until this issue is resolved. And we will still need a lot of time to get things re-organized before we can start again. So already I doubt we could get things going again in less than 2 weeks, and I don't see why we should delay things any longer.

But I am not yet in the wars, which is why for the most part I have been staying out of this debate, and letting those who are in the wars fight it out. So if you guys still want to debate this for a while, I'm not going to put up a fight.

Nenya Evenstar

03-20-2003, 09:35 PM

Remember, me little hearties, that I'm neutral in this matter. :p I'm just playing the Devil's Advocate here to see why exactly people want a restart.

The war is only dead because I requested people to stop posting during my month-long absence. HI and the Rangers are already in the War, and any other little things can wait until it's finished.

My main concern is that I know of people who will be very disappointed to just stop the war where it is now simply because of the amount of time and energy they have put into the writing for it. They have no wish to just cut off this war after all that work and effort and call it quits. That is my main concern, and I think it's a big one.

I am personally excited for a new war, but am willing to play this one through first. Then we could re-order the lands etc. and share our new ideas for the new war.

Dáin Ironfoot I

03-20-2003, 09:37 PM

The people who have dedicated so much to this war are supporting a restart, midear. I fail to see what you are getting at... as three of the major posters disappeared.

I will start a poll later today, unless someone tells me not to.

Nenya Evenstar

03-20-2003, 10:07 PM

I am hinting that Dengen is not at all happy with a restart. He has put much time and effort into this war and does not like the idea of just quitting it now. :) And no, Dengen has not disappeared, he just hasn't posted in this thread yet. He's very much here.

Ecthelion

03-21-2003, 12:52 AM

When whoever it is makes the poll for the keep going or restart where will it?

Anamatar IV

03-21-2003, 01:01 AM

Probably in this forum.

But before you guys vote really think about *why* you want to do this. What are the reasons, and do they really warrant a restart or deserve to keep going at it. For instance how complicated is the war? Is it so complex that we have to restart? When you really think about it do you realise we've dug ourself a big hole?

Are all these things so important that we have to restart the war for it? Can we change and sort all this without a restart? Really analyze your choice before you vote! Let's not make this decision in haste.

Turgon

03-21-2003, 01:14 AM

I've spoken to DG about this issue too - and he makes very good points about there not being a restart. Dengen is one of the people who have invested the most time into this enterprize - and I know he has a monster post up his sleeve which could just make this war interesting again... but that's by the by.

But I would hate to see this thing decided by poll... I say if Dengen is against it then we should all take his wishes into consideration. Perhaps another option would be to end this war, not restart it, with everything that has happened set in stone. Then come up with some ideas in the ensuing peace, new kingdoms, new alliances... before beginning a new war?

Elbereth

03-21-2003, 02:26 AM

The fact is...Dengen is not the only one who has invested alot in these wars. Everyone who has been involved in the wars since its begining have put a lot of time and energy into them as well. Therefore,I do not believe that the deciding factor should lie in the opinion of just one person.

I do agree with Dengen and Nenya, that it would be a shame to lose the great posts that have been made in the war thus far. However, how do we move on with so many missing from the general plot line...and how do we fit in the new players into the mix? Those are questions that I would like to see resolved.

I think there is general confusion as to what is going on in the war...not only with newcomers to the war...but amongst the veteran members. Perhaps restarting a war will be the best thing. However, I won't be terribly hurt if we keep the war as is...It really doesn't matter to me.

And in response to a jab that I believe was pointed (whether directly or indirectly) at me ...I am going to make this clear. My decision to consider restarting this war has nothing to do with "reclaiming my lands". I am not that petty.