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Kraas
11-02-2001, 03:09 AM
How accurate are these maps? Would Tolkien accept them?

Also, I have a question regarding Mordor's position. In the map of the First Age, the Inland Sea of Helcar is where Mordor is supposed to be. Then, in the map of the Second Age, the Sea of Helcar is completely gone, and Mordor is there. How did this happen?

Hama
11-06-2001, 03:42 AM
I believe that the Atlas is quite accurate. Well it may not be exactly as Tolkien envisioned it, but the gray areas have been filled in by the cartographers. Tolkien enjoyed a sense of secrecy concerning many of the ways of the world (he never describes events in the far east, nor were his sketches of the area ever published - remember how two of the Istari, the blue ones, went into the east and no longer came into the tales) The maps are to scale and very detailed. Middle Earth went through a number of geographical changes over the years. The world was very simple geographically when there were the two pillars which lighted the world. In the numerous wars between Melkor (aka Morgoth) and the Valar the land was torn apart. The last time this happened was at the end of the second age when Beleriand was flooded and Numenor was lost under the sea. The lake that you speak of was part of the huge body of water by which the Elves were born. I don't have my books handy or I would give you their names. Mordor was not always an evil land (Utumno and then Angband were the fortresses of Melkor), and Sauron occupied it in the third age because it was surrounded by mountains. So the body of water was moved in the process of the changing landscape, probably by either Melkor or the Valar during the First Age although I can't swear to that.

Halasían
12-17-2001, 05:56 AM
Being that the music of the Ainur was the creation, and Melkor started playing his own tune in opposition to the other Ainur, the forming of Middle Earth was affected. And afterwards much changed like when Melkor threw up the Mist Mountains to impede Orome, and then the overthrow of Melkor/Morgoth when the Valar intervened on behalf of Erendel which destroyed Beleriand and the north. And then the changing of the lands when Numenor attacked Valinor changed Middle Earth alot. So naturally there is inconsistancies in the maps.

I always wondered what was south of Far Harad, or east of Rhun, or to know more of the people of Khand. So much to dream about!

Aldarion
01-15-2002, 02:11 AM
"A Tolkien Bestiary" by David Day contains an interesting and credible composite map of Arda.

Taranir
01-22-2002, 01:42 PM
The Helcar sea broke in the seas of black sea and Kaspian sea... I think