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Turgon
08-08-2002, 07:14 PM
I thought it might be interesting to get some ideas on the subject of the Fall of Arnor. Why did Arnor fall, yet Gondor survive? Both Kingdoms suffered from the same troubles during the middle of the third age: War, plague, civil strife... and yet while Gondor weathered the storm, Arnor fell before it

What advantages did Gondor have which Arnor lacked?

Natural defenses? A greater population base? Did the expansionist policies of Gondor play any part in it's survival? Was the Presence of the Witch-king in the North the deciding factor? Were it not for the Kinstrife in Gondor, could the Dúnedain of both Kingdoms have put up a united front against the Witch-king before he had taken a firm footing in the northlands?

Any thoughts?

Gothmog
08-10-2002, 10:52 PM
After Elendil and Isildur there were eight High Kings of Arnor. After Eärendur, owing to dissension among his sons their realm was divided into three: Arthedain, Rhudaur, and Cardolan, Arthedain was in the North-west and included the land between Brandywine and Lune, and also the land north of the Great Road as far as the Weather Hills. Rhudaur was in te North-east and lay between the Ettenmoors, The Weather Hills, and the Misty Mountains, but included also the Angle between the Hoarwell and the Loudwater. Cardolan was in the South, its bounds being the Brandywine, the Greyflood, and the Great Road. From Apendix A: The North-kingdom and the Dúnedain

This in itself is enough of a difference to give Gondor more of a chance to survive than Arnor. The fact that there was enough dissension amoung the sons to cause the division of the realm of Arnor into three petty kingdoms would seriously lessen the chances of the survival of the once great realm of the Dúnedain in the north. To prove this the story continues:
In Arthedain the line of Isildur was maintained and endured, but the line soon perished in Cardolan and Rhudaur. There was often strife between the kingdoms, which hastened the waning of the Dúnedain. The chief matter of debate was the possession of the Weather Hills and the land westward towards Bree. Both Rhudaur and Cardolan desired to posses Amon Sûl (Weathertop), which stood on the boarders of their realms; for the Tower of Amon Sûl held the chief Palantír of the North, and the other two were both in the keeping of Arthedain.

In the case of Gondor, although there was trouble in plenty for the kingdom and it's reach was lessened, it was not divided into lesser kingdoms but remained as one kingdom with one ruler from the time of Meneldil son of Anárion through to Denethor II the last of the Ruling Stewards.

So it seems to me that One united kingdom would stand a far better chance that Three Dis-united kingdoms that had strife between them.

Arvedui
08-20-2002, 08:55 AM
If there is one reason more substantial then the other, the Witch-King must be it.

quote:
It was in the beginning of the reignof Malvegil of the Arthedain that evil came to Arnor. For at that time the realm of Angmar arose in the North beyond the Ettenmoors.

Of course, it didn't help matters much that there was often strife between the kingdoms.