The Time Lords - Roman Mythology as it Affected the Culture

[Aerin]

Mythology, in pre-literature cultures, played a big role in telling members of society how to act and how not to act. (Pre-literate as in the society not yet having the ability to read or write)

For the sake of a debate, how do you think the Romans, after stealing the Greek deities and claiming them as their own, were affected by their mythology?

The Greek myth of the creation of the Earth involved mainly Mother Earth and Father Universe, who created the Titans.
The Roman myth of creation was that of Romus and Remus, the twins who were raised by a she-wolf (I think, I'm quite sure on the Roman myths). After the Romans took over the Greek gods and goddesses, most things that came after the "creation" were the same, only they had different names for the deities.

What kind of impact on Roman culture did that have? Was it positive or negative?

[Eomer Dinmention]

I think Romas and Remus, they were twins, and they were brought up by a female wolf, where i think they found Rome

[Ciryaher]

I think that the polytheism of Romans had a positive influence on their culture.

Note that around the time of Augustus there was a general nonchalance for the "old religion" and that immorality was rampant. Augustus himself struggled to bring back the old morals and religion to improve the waning Roman population. He pointed out that the pure-Latin blood was beeing replaced by non-Latin freemen who were increasing in numbers rapidly, while the Romans themselves often chose not to have families and instead used contraceptives to allow for a life of promiscuity.

Since the old religion of Rome was abandoned, the Roman bloodline waned and mingled with that of others, until Rome inevitably collapsed out of its own excess.

[Rangerdave]

Originally posted by Aerin
Mythology, in pre-literature cultures, played a big role in telling members of society how to act and how not to act. (Pre-literate as in the society not yet having the ability to read or write)


I will agree with that statement, as far as it goes. However, it does seem to suggest that mythology has a lessened effect on literate societies. That I have to take some umberage to. Myth is still a very important part of the human condition, even in this "enlightened" modern age.

As for the original topic of the Romans. Its effectiveness must be looked at with two widely different perspectives. The myths of the people, and the myths of the State. For an example, compare the popular Estruscan legend of Romulas and Remus to the State Legend of the Aeneid (http://eawc.evansville.edu/anthology/aeneid/book1.htm). I bring up the Aeneid because it is a great example of Rome's need to reinvent the myths of Athens. Virgil wrote the epic of Aeneas as a Roman counterpart to Homer's Iliad.

As a whole, Rome was not a exceptionally creative society. But they did have a mastery for adapting and expanding on the concepts of other civilizations.

Have a day
RD

Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.---Whatever is said in Latin sounds profound.
Vescere bracis meis.---Eat my shorts.
Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati - When all else fails, play dead.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.--- I have a catapult. Give me all the money or I will fling an enormous rock at your head.

[Aerin]

I did not mean to suggest that myth does not play a large part in modern culture; however, I do believe it is somewhat muted from the role it used to play.

In pre-literature cultures, the only "history" they had was in myths. The Iliad and Odyssey were taken as historical fact; they had no other way of transmitting stories or morality other than through oral tales. (Here's where the big debate over Homer comes in....)

In today's "modern society and culture", there are history books with proven facts: written word that has not changed. Because of that, we need not believe the tales of George Washington cutting down the cherry tree or Paul Bunyan and his giant ox.
If America was pre-literate, the aforementioned tales could possibly be taken as fact and believed to be historical events.

Oh drat, not another super-long Roman poem to read... I still have yet to finish the Odyssey! I'm studying it in school now, so that's why I'm so interested in the myths and how they pertain to the culture, but this is too much! Brain overload! AHHHH!

[Rangerdave]

Actually, there is no historical evidence to either support or deny that the ancients used their mythic literature as an absolute historical fact. The arguement can be made that The Oddity and the Idiot, opps sorry, the Odyessey and the Iliad were simply good stories. Granted, the German Archaeologiest whose name escapes me at the moment did find the ruins of Illium (Troy), but everything else is Homer's imagination working overtime. I would like to think that the society that spawned the Epicurians and the Stoics, not to mention Socrates and his crew could see alagorical ficton for what it was.

But thats another arguement. If your teacher tries to tell you that the Greeks used Homer as historical documentation. You tell him or her its a good theory, but you have a friend who teaches history and literature and he says that there's no proof either way. Also as you go through the rest of your academic life; remember the first law of Sophist philosophy. "Knowlidge of the subject is helpful but not necessary to win the arguement."

With that I leave you with the immortal words of Socrates who said...
I Drank What!!!


ps
in your last post, you said
Oh drat, not another super-long Roman poem to read... I still have yet to finish the Odyssey!
You've got your cultures mixed. the Odyssey and the Iliad are Greek. The only major Roman epic poems are the Aeneid and Ovid's Metamorphoses. The Metamorphoses is a good one, really easy to read.
You can find it here (http://classics.mit.edu/Ovid/metam.html)

rd

[Aerin]

As I mentioned before, I am currently attending lectures on Greek mythology and the influence it had on society and culture throughout the ages. That is the source from which I am currently learning, and the teacher, Professor Vandiver, examines myth: the historical and fictional aspects.

As for:
Actually, there is no historical evidence to either support or deny that the ancients used their mythic literature as an absolute historical fact.
One could argue that there is no historical evidence for history.....;)

I am not taking Professor Vandiver's views and opinions as the gospel truth; I am merely looking at the argument from one of the *many* aspects there are.

Oops, my mistake about the Greek versus Roman myths... my curriculum has both, and I used the wrong term. :o

[LadyGaladriel]

Originally posted by King Eomer
I think Romas and Remus, they were twins, and they were brought up by a female wolf, where i think they found Rome

The full Mythology and resoning behind Rome is the two babygods were thrown to earth by their jealous uncle . The babies were washed up ashore and a wolf who had recently littered took them in as their own. As they grew up and became stronger and stronger their father offered them the chance to go back to heaven but they refused and said they would first build a city worthy of their fathers praise . Upon 4 mounds they begun to build a city wall . Remus built the north wall and Romas built the south. When Romas saw Remus's wall he took the mike and asked how it was going to stop armies when he could jump over it and proceeded to do so . Remus grew angry and killed his brother in a fit of rage . I think Remus was also refused to ever find peace and was damned for all enternity.

[Talierin]

Come on people! Let's not let this discussion die!

[LadyGaladriel]

Originally posted by Talierin
Come on people! Let's not let this discussion die!
I ahve a feeling I kindof stopped the conversation flow. sorry about that.

[Melian Le Fay]

I think that the two brothers who founded Rome were called ROMULUS and REMUS. Well, so much for the corretions.
Does mythology have any impact on our history, lives....?
I believe that mythology is a "mirror" of a culture. All the myths begin with a little grain of truth. And then through time, it gains more and more "leyers" of story, of fantastical events. That's due to human nature - at that time people would explain many unknown things as divine, supernatural... And combine that with enormous imagination... And also desire to personify all the things men would like to do, to be... That's why you always have beautiful, strong, wise, competent heroes - because that's what we'd all like to be...
Legends and mythology tell who we are. And they influence on us in the way that they are our past, our history. And you can't run away or completely forget your past. It is a part of you.
For example - many people I know aren't Christians, but still they find it imoral to kill, or steal...etc. Why? Because Christianity came from desire to fullfil our high moral needs, but also it left a trace in all the generations to come! Like some return - action- reaction event (sorry I cannot say this in English the way I'd like) So, people are unaware that thay share same ideas like those who are Christians. It's something like a " soul imprint"....

[Ponte]

It was Romas who killed Remus when Remus jumped over Romas wall, not the other way around, and Romas wasn't damned for al eternity, he became king over Rom and later the god Quirinus.

[Melian Le Fay]

Hey, how about I dig out the more-or-less official version of the legend of Romulus and Remus, so we don't confuse each other.........?
What do you think?

[Maedhros]

The Greek myth of the creation of the Earth involved mainly Mother Earth and Father Universe, who created the Titans.
This depends if you are using the Hesiod version or that of Ovid.
After the Romans took over the Greek gods and goddesses, most things that came after the "creation" were the same, only they had different names for the deities.
What kind of impact on Roman culture did that have? Was it positive or negative?
The greeks taught the romans, and Rome taught the western world. The impact of the Roman Empire is enormous. In linguistics, latin, and the languages that derived from it, are used in a great part of Europe (France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, etc)
The establishment of the Roman Catholic Church, who had it's roots in the Roman Empire, when the Empire Religion was christianity. We can still feel the influence of the Vatican today.

[Anduril]

Hi!
Just a few comments about the main theme of this thread...

I'd like to introduce my comment with a fact:
Myth has a strong influence in all cultures, it's an esential part of the human "sistem" of each society to explain blanks or certain notions.

About Myth from Theasaurus:


"A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society: the myth of Eros and Psyche; a creation myth.
Such stories considered as a group: the realm of myth"


I also think that "stealing" concepts can be a side-effect of "acculturation"...

Since Romans took several deities from Greeks, they could believe that such ideals and such "superideas" explain in a better way the interaction between man and his environment, man and his world or man and the "cosmos", his known cosmos...

The fact here is not the "god-borrowing effect"...the ancient cultures use myth to fill out their blanks about the universe (as ourselves use science to fill out our own blanks) and human condition, to explain the unknown...
It's not a coincidence that the anthropomorphism is a succesful notion in both cultures...

Yes, definitely the impact was full, none can isolate himself from his time and his culture; and that benefit Romans, who perpetuated some of the Psy-cultural-principles of greeks, and this benefited Greeks through the survival of their culture through "the conquerors".

I also think this idea of consequences in two ways...it's positive because allowed to some "succesful" myths to keep alive in time, those strong enough to explain human ideals or even defects. In contrast, could be negative in the way that this "acculturation" didn't allow the creation of a "Full and 100% Pure Roman Mythology", but, after all, humans influence each other's life every day and it's part of human's evolution.

Thanks guys.

C U

[Húrin Thalion]

Hi all!

I am a little new to this and I am not going to post very much in this thread since my special interest is in actual happenings and notmythology although many of the things said here are very interesting.
It was only one thing I had to say and it will kind of disrupt the picture of Rome. In the earliest times before the growing connections with the other Etruscs the Romans meant not wolf but a derogative word for a prostitute female. The misunderstanding is because the words are very similar if not identic, my latin is a little rusty. In fact the Roman's "own" religion was taken from the Etruscs and then replaced by the Greek Gods.

Húrin Thalion

PS: Oh, of course another area of interest is Homeros (Homer) and his (?) works.