I don't like how he portrayed the hobbits. [Archive]

SABOTAGE

08-12-2002, 12:52 AM

I thought it was a great movie - didn't like it the first time - coz it clashed with the movie in my head from reading the books. But watched it agin, and took it for what it is - a movie adaptation - and a very well made movie too.

But what somewhat spoils it for me is the portrayal of the hobbits - esp. Pippin and Merry. They are the 'humour' of the film - and I don't think the film needs slapstick like the tent/firework incident and that awful scene with the bent carrot - I haven't read the books in a while - but tell me that didn't happen in the book!!!!!! And when Pippin (or Merry) goes "where are we going?" at the Council of Elrond. Makes me CRINGE!!!!

I don't like the Liverpool FC '70's perm on Frodo either - in my mind he's more like the Ralph Baskhi Frodo.

Ravenna

08-12-2002, 02:16 AM

I know it's not in the book, but I quite liked some of the humourous moments.
I agree that the hobbits are not perfect, but they are WAY WAY better than those awful animated children in the Bakshi film!

SABOTAGE

08-12-2002, 02:22 AM

Well, I think the animation in that version is outstanding! - great detail gone into it - blows away anything Disney ever did. And it was 1978.

lilhobo

08-12-2002, 04:04 AM

say what you will about Bakshi's version, but i still think that it is a far superior product than PJ's (superior dialogue and animation)

ReadWryt

08-12-2002, 07:10 PM

That's because there was little "Animation" in it. The guy filmed the whole thing in Spain on the cheap in black and white and then had people draw over the actors...:rolleyes:

SABOTAGE

08-12-2002, 07:20 PM

I know a lot of it was filmed and then 'traced' over and coloured in - but were the priciple characters originally live actors - and them animated over too?

I have to say, I've thought it might be the case coz I have NEVER seen an animated film with the characters movements so life-like. The way they walk is perfect - animating a walking character is VERY hard to do, just compare to any other animations.

Talimon

08-13-2002, 12:32 AM

say what you will about Bakshi's version, but i still think that it is a far superior product than PJ's (superior dialogue and animation)

What?!? I am I hearing correct? A "superior product"?!?!?

falls dead

Where to begin... Actually, I'll let you choose, since I am willing to take it on in absolutely every single aspect, from the music, the visual style, the dialogue, the editing, the charachter development... Give me one aspect that was better and try and defend it. It isn't possible.

The only other worthy adapatation of Tolkiens works was the animated "The Hobbit". It left out Beorn, who cares. It actual had a bit of feeling in it.

aragil

08-13-2002, 01:15 AM

The only clear positive I can see for Bakshi over PJ is I liked what's-his-name Hurt's voice over Viggo's for Aragorn. Still, I liked Viggo a lot, and much of the dialogue in Bakshi was just plain bad. I don't know how the dozen or so Orcs at Helm's Deep, Moria, and in the Death March across Rohan could be considered superior animation to the thousands that appear in the same shots (plus the battle of the last alliance) in the PJ version, nor do I see the Bakshi Balrog as superior to the PJ version. In fact, I think I'm as puzzled as Talimon over the fact that anyone can consider Bakshi superior to PJ.

For Sabotage- Tolkien described Hobbits as having curly hair (several times, actually). The ones in Bakshi actually had incorrect (as per Tolkien) haircuts, ones which were definitely more 70-ish than those in PJ's version.
As for movie/book inconsistencies, much of Pippin's dialogue at the CoE was lifted right out of the books (of course in the books it was delivered later, as Pippin didn't attend the actual council). This includes 'You need someone with intelligence', to which Gandalf (not Merry) replied 'That rules you out'. In fact, a lot of the Pippin/Merry humor in the movie was reminiscent of things from the book, which makes it perfectly placed, IMO.

Ravenna

08-13-2002, 01:44 AM

My comment on the Bakshi film was really about the appearance of the characters, not the film itself, I came away from it thinking that the hobbits were shown as children, Aragorn as a red Indian-going purely on skin colour, Boromir as a viking - i mean, horned helmet?, and Gandalf as way too close to Merlin. It just put me off the whole film.

Ariana Undomiel

08-13-2002, 02:04 AM

Considering how dark the majority of this movie is it was wonderful for PJ to add a bit of humor into it. I mean, the audience needs to be able to laugh once in a while. I didn't think that any of the parts with Merry and Pippin were stupid. They were quite clever actually!

~Ariana

SABOTAGE

08-13-2002, 02:13 AM

Originally posted by Talimon

What?!? I am I hearing correct? A "superior product"?!?!?

falls dead

Where to begin... Actually, I'll let you choose, since I am willing to take it on in absolutely every single aspect, from the music, the visual style, the dialogue, the editing, the charachter development... Give me one aspect that was better and try and defend it. It isn't possible.

The only other worthy adapatation of Tolkiens works was the animated "The Hobbit". It left out Beorn, who cares. It actual had a bit of feeling in it.

Rankin Bass's 'The Hobbit' was HIDEOUS!!!! and that guy singing "the greatest adventure" - WTF!!!!!!!

And I think the music in Jacksons movie is nothing special at all, which is a shame - Baskhi's had great music - the scenes w/the black Riders especially standing out. And the main theme was good as well.

SABOTAGE

08-13-2002, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by Ravenna
My comment on the Bakshi film was really about the appearance of the characters, not the film itself, I came away from it thinking that the hobbits were shown as children, Aragorn as a red Indian-going purely on skin colour, Boromir as a viking - i mean, horned helmet?, and Gandalf as way too close to Merlin. It just put me off the whole film.

yeah, Gandalf was a bit too Merlin-like. And the horned helmet makes me laugh. What did you think of Gollom? I though he was spot-on.

SABOTAGE

08-13-2002, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by aragil

For Sabotage- Tolkien described Hobbits as having curly hair (several times, actually). The ones in Bakshi actually had incorrect (as per Tolkien) haircuts, ones which were definitely more 70-ish than those in PJ's version.

Well put!

I guess I always just pictured Frodo looking like he did in the '78 version - with the hooded cloak and all - I thought he looked the part. I saw the movie YEARS before I read the books - barely remember them being connected - maybe thats where I got my idea of what Frodo looked like.

aragil

08-13-2002, 04:29 PM

Hmm, your last comment to Ravenna got me remembering. Gollum was also a shining point for the Bakshi version. I especially liked that he looked vaguely Hobbit-ish, very different from the frog-thingy of the Rankin-Bass adaptions. His 'Sssssneakin!' line was great.

Ravenna

08-13-2002, 04:46 PM

Sabotage.
I forgot about Gollum, I did like him in Bakshi's film.
:o

Talimon

08-13-2002, 11:39 PM

I see someone hated that song. I actually like it, alot. Bilbo's (Orson Bean) voice in the animated Hobbit is my favorite voice out of all the Tolkien anaimtions & PJ's movie. The Animated Hobbit movie doesn't have to be as good as PJ's lotr...but it is more dear to me and I think it does the best job of portraying a specific Hobbit.
I may be biast though because Bilbo is my most beloved Tolkien charactor...and he is the star of The Hobbit.

Another fan of the animated Hobbit! I'm not saying it was great or anything (the battle of five armies was a sad affair), but it had some very good moments, and I thought the music was one of them. The dwarfs song about the misty mountains had the perfect tune. Two memorable scenes were where Bilbo climbs to the canopy of Mirkwood and says something to the effect, "I wondered if I'd ever see home again. I wondered if I wanted to." I also liked the way the men of dale were animated, looked very roman-like with thier sandals and all. And when Thorin dies and Bilbo pays him a last visit it was also a great moment, with the words from the book retained more or less. I don't know, maybe it's because the Hobbit is such a happy tale, but it seems that all the adapatations of it turn out nicely. I think it is much harder to do LotR because of the much darker subject matter.

ReadWryt

08-14-2002, 06:27 PM

Baskhi's had great music

...if you can get past the fact that it sounded like someone stuffed an Orchestra in a Closet and recorded them, and the monotonous droning male chorus singing "Mooooooooooooooooore-doooooooooooooooor.....moooooooooooooooore-dooooooooooooooor".

Legolas_lover12

08-14-2002, 07:41 PM

i've never seen the animated hobbit, or the bashki version of LOTR. mybe they have them at me video store . . .

Melian Le Fay

08-14-2002, 08:00 PM

My comment on the Bakshi - PJ relation is this:
when I was watching Bakshi's film, i fell asleep
when I was watching PJ's film, I didn't even blink

Bakshi's film hasn't got that splendour, that brilliance, (like when they meet the elves), it's completely dark, with few colours, and soooooo long!!! It just felt like it lacked action! The book is not all about action. of course, but the film is much shorter than the book and needs some going-ons, it's simply more "concetrated"... And when I say action, I don't mean simply sword-fighting action...

Melian Le Fay

08-15-2002, 05:53 PM

Yes, that's how I felt, too! It could have been great, but it just seemed like their financies were suddenly cut off!!! I do not recall all too well the characterisation in Bakshi's film, the only impression I've got left is - booooring....
I liked Galadriel's voice in PJ film...Cate really did it great!!!

Legolas_lover12

08-15-2002, 11:01 PM

i found RW's comment about a male chorus going "moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooore doooooooooooooooooooooooooooor, moooooooooooooooooooooooooore doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooor" very funny. LOl

Melian Le Fay

08-16-2002, 07:43 PM

Oh, God, that boring chanting!!!! That's what probably put me to sleep!
I definitely prefer "the theme of Nazgul" in PJ's film...probably the best track from OST...

Eowyn

08-17-2002, 03:09 AM

I personally like the way the hobbits were portrayed. They really are supposed to act like that, but they mature a lot throught the journey. When I was younger, around 5, I saw the cartoon of LotR, and I wasn't at all impressed. It was so boring. I knew the books had to be better, but I just kept percrastinating, because I still thought they'd be like the cartoon. Then I saw PJ's version. I am now a bit into the third book, a trivia master, and, at least for someone my age, and obsessee. I definately prefer PJ's version.

Rangerdave

08-17-2002, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by ReadWryt

...if you can get past the fact that it sounded like someone stuffed an Orchestra in a Closet and recorded them, and the monotonous droning male chorus singing "Mooooooooooooooooore-doooooooooooooooor.....moooooooooooooooore-dooooooooooooooor".

Sounds like the Volga boat song to me boss.

O-way-O, Whoah-O
O-way-O, marching with a spear.

RD

Melian Le Fay

08-18-2002, 08:20 PM

I liked the Hobbits, but maybe they should have been a bit chubby...But that's why Sam was perfect!!!
...
Sweet Sammy...:)

Eowyn

09-01-2002, 04:29 AM

Good ol' Sam...

Diamond Took

09-01-2002, 09:37 AM

Hey, this isn't an adaption of the bible we're talking about here,
its just a simple film adaption of lord of the rings, and niether book nor film will probably be remebered in a hundred years time.
so theres no need to talk about it like the world is gonna end.

btw= pippin was my favourite thing about the movie!! so cute!:p

joxy

09-01-2002, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by Diamond Took
niether book nor film will probably be remebered in a hundred years time.
so theres no need to talk about it like the world is gonna end.

The book is going strong after fifty years; I reckon it has at least another hundred years going for it!
No-one's talking about the end of the world- just a few oddities in an otherwise great film.

Melian Le Fay

09-01-2002, 05:46 PM

I drink to that! Hick!:p

Legolas_lover12

09-01-2002, 09:24 PM

LOL.:D

Diamond Took

09-02-2002, 10:02 AM

i suppose not.

But still.... I love the hobbits! especially pippin!

Legolas_lover12

09-02-2002, 02:03 PM

my kids will because i'll tell them about LOTR ALL the time;);)

Melian Le Fay

09-03-2002, 06:16 PM

And I'll leave the books and the films as a legacy to my children! And I'll write in my last will that they'll get no money unless they read the books and see the films!!!!!:D :D :D

Eowyn

09-04-2002, 07:41 AM

I too shall make it my duty to help with the preservation of the great works of J.R.R. Tolkien.

Melian Le Fay

09-06-2002, 10:43 PM

Nah, I think his works will have the same strength and same power even 200 yaers from now! Heck, even longer than that! The value of his work is enough to preserve it and continue influencing people and bringing magic to them...But "helping" it pass on is really a splendid duty!;) :D