I HATE that scene with the broken carrot!!!!!

[SABOTAGE]

Who breaks it? - Pippin? MAN!!!! the movie doesn't slap-stick comedy like that in it - there are other examples, but that one is the worst. WHAT was PJ thinking - comic relief? It just dumbs down the movie for me, its like he's aiming at kids - I suppose he is - but I think it will age very badly.

[zeldamaster13]

I thought it was funny

[Ravenna]

So did I. :D

[Ariana Undomiel]

That scene was wonderful! And Pippin didn't break the carrot, Merry did. He landed on it when he fell down the hill. "Ohhhhh ... I think I broke something." And then he pulls out the carrot and is sorrowful to see that it is broken. LOL. That's a bit of lightheartedness that is needed in the darkness of the rest of the film.

~Ariana

[SABOTAGE]

I think its appalling - can you see Tolkien putting something like that into his book? - imagine if he saw it in the film-script - he would think Disney were making the film.

Its an excellent movie - except for that scene.

[Darth Saruman]

I don't get why nobody likes the added humour to LOTR. They had to put more comedy in there that was more relevant to modern times, in order to connect to modern audiences. As long as they don't start making obscene gags and sex jokes, in these films, I won't mind it at all.

[SABOTAGE]

Oh I'm all for humour - just not that slapstick style - doesn't suit the movie IMO.

[Rangerdave]

Just for the record, the incident with the carrot was prop humor with overtones of sexual inuendo. Slap stick involves physical violence. If Pippin would have hit Merry with the Carrot, that would have been slap stick.

I knew I should not have taken that theater class.
RD

[ReadWryt]

Wait...you are trying to say that the guy who had three dwarves literally FALL into Bag End in a pile on top of each other would never dain to stoop to Prat Falls and Slapstick or even a bit of lighthearted fun in his stories? Heck, I literally laughed when Beren told Luthien's dad that he still was holding the Palantir in his hand, but that his hand was elsewhere...But then what can you say about a guy who gives you the visual image of a Hobbit dancing and singing on top of a table and stepping too far, falling off and dissapearing altogether? Naw, Tolkien would never stoop to silly visual humor...well, maybe a little. Like showing two Hobbits sitting amidst a mass of rubble that had been a nearly impervious stronghold eating and smoking with no other means to tell what had destroyed Isengard...and then Gimli asking them first about where they got the Pipe Weed instead of how they had lain waste to all about...*Shrug* You might be right, the guy never lowered himself to including Sight Gags...

[PRH]

I don't mind some humor...love it actually. Little jokes in the midst of serious drama are often the best.

What I don't like are the modern type references: Dwarf-tossing, 'your love of the halfling's leaf has clouded your mind,' and the carrot as double-entendre. It breaks the fantasy (draws you out of Middle Earth) and they're not that funny (well, the idea of Gandalf actually smoking weed is a bit funny, but it still draws you out of ME more than it's worth).

[Rúmil]

Actually, Saruman's objecting to Gandalf's smoking is real Tolkien: in UT, he tells Gandalf "When earnest matters are in debate, Mithrandir, I marvel a little that you should play with your toys of smoke and fire". Then he takes up smoking in secret, and hopes no-one notices and makes fun of him for acting like an insecure schoolboy. That's one part of UT that made me laugh out loud. I didn't mind the humour in the movie at all, in fact I found it quite refreshing.

[aragil]

Even better is Gandalf's guess (?) that Saruman lusts after the Ring. He blows a big smoke ring at Saruman and grasps after it, even as it disappears into nothingness. Think that played with Saruman's head a bit?

[Ravenna]

I can see why some people object to the humourous bits, as most of them are not pure Tolkien. Personally, I liked them, at least they weren't dwelt on too long becoming too intrusive into the main thrust of the story.

[Pelvidar]

Thank goodness ReadWryt put a sensible post in this thread...

If you're going to complain about that scene, at least get your complaints right.

[PRH]

Yes, but nowhere in the books does it suggest that the pipe-weed is getting it's smokers high (like Saruman implied in the movie). It is consistent for him to make fun of Gandalf for this habbit but not to suggest that it's turning him into a burnout.

Also, it's pretty clear from the prologue to LOTR (concerning pipe-weed) that it's meant to be tobacco. It derives from "nicotonia" and it was first grown by "Tobold" and they call it "Old Toby."

[Rúmil]

Well I think it would be just like sneaky old Saruman to suggest that good, wholesome tobacco could in any way be damaging for a wizard's mental health. :p

[aragil]

From the Movie
GANDALF: All these long years it was in the Shire, right under my nose.
SARUMAN: And you had not the wit to see it. Your love of the Halflings' leaf has clearly slowed your mind.
From the Books
The Council met in Rivendell, and Gandalf sat apart, silent, but smoking prodigiously (a thing he had never done before on such an occasion), while Saruman spoke against him, and urged that contrary to Gandalf's advice Dol Guldur should not yet be molested. Both the silence and the smoke seemed greatly to annoy Saruman, and before the Council dispersed he said to Gandalf: "When weighty matters are in debate, Mithrandir, I wonder a little that you should play with your toys of fire and smoke, while others are in earnest speech."
But Gandalf laughed, and replied: "You would not wonder, if you used this herb yourself. You might find that smoke blown out cleared your mind of shadows within. Anyway, it gives patience, to listen to error without anger. But it is not one of my toys. It is an art of the Little People away in the West: merry and worthy folk, though not of much account, perhaps, in your high policies."
Saruman was little appeased by this answer (for he hated mockery, however gentle), and he said then coldly: "You jest, Lord Mithrandir, as is your way. I know well enough that you have become a curious explorer of the small: weeds, wild things, and childish folk. Your time is your own to spend, if you have nothing worthier to do; and your friends you may make as you please. But to me the days are too dark for wanderers' tales and I have no time for the simples of peasants."
Gandalf did not laugh again; and he did not answer, but looking keenly at Saruman he drew on his pipe and sent out a great ring of smoke with many smaller rings that followed it. Then he put up his hand, as if to grasp them, and they vanished. With that he got up and left Saruman without another word; but Saruman stood for some time silent, and his face was dark with doubt and displeasure.
(gratuitous over-quoting for the benefit of Confusticated)

I think that I'll have to disagree with you on this one, PRH. In the movie Saruman disparages pipe-weed just as in the books (although Gandalf does not defend its use in the movie). Also, 'burnout' is a much stronger term than what is used in the movie- clearly in both books and movie Saruman is simply annoyed by the smoke. Another thing, in the books it is most-often referred to as 'weed', while in the movie Saruman calls it the Halflings' "leaf". One thing I didn't see in the movie was Old Toby toked out of a bong, it is always smoked out of a pipe (as tobacco). I'm afraid that I think the innuendo is something you're reading into the movie.

[LadyGaladriel]

Personally I think slapstick provides an healthy source of entertainment . The Lord Of The Rings Jokes about a lot to even in the face of danger . Now what is the Moral story?

[Anamatar IV]

i loved all that comedy. Pippin with the 'where are we going' line. The fireworks. Sam hitting orcs on the head with his pan. In the tt he hits gollum with it.

[Pelvidar]

Confusticated: "You know what? That he did. Are you saying that no one else has? I know you didn't "say" it...but did you mean it?"

Hmmm... I guess you're right, my comments could have been misinterpreted quite easily. I didn't mean that no one else had brought something meaningful to the discussion - but I found ReadWryt's comments most 'to the point' - and based on a rational examination of Tolkien's work.

Before him it was mostly "I liked it", "I didn't like it", "It was slapstick", "No it wasn't". Or at least, that's how I percieved it.

Your post in there (regarding 'modern' innuendo's) was pretty sharp to (gee, I never meant to become the resident 'post' critic :) )

I think I shared your concern. The drawf tossing was a bit too much. That was really the only time I felt the humour detracted from my suspecion of disbelief.

[Talimon]

Wow, aragil just whet my appetite. Was that from 'Unfinished Tales'? If so I'm buying that the next chance I get. I had no idea UT had anything to do with the Third Age or the events leading up to the War of the Ring. I was sure it was mostly closing up holes opened by the Silmarillion. Is it based mostly in the older lore or does it actually have something to do with the end of the Third Age?

[aragil]

A little from column A, a little from column B. Also some from column C (that being the lore of the second age, belonging neither to the Silmarillion or to The Lord of the Rings proper. The stories I can remember offhand:

First Age-
1) Story of Tuor and his finding of Gondolin- largely an embellishment of material in the Sil.
2) Narn in nan Hurin (probably murdered the spelling on that)- largely an embellishment of the tale of Turin from the Sil.

Second Age-
1) The line of Elros- largely a recapitulation of the line of kings from the appendices of tLotR

2)The Story of Erendis and Aldarion- completely new, very interesting story about one of the Kings of Numenor at the time when evil began to stir again in Middle-earth

3)Galadriel and Celeborn- very confusing in that there are many conflicting versions of the story, but also very informative. This story contains a lot of information about the Ring-makers of Eregion, the works of whom play a pretty significant role in the later LotR.

Third Age-
1) The Disaster of the Gladden Fields- excellent fully fleshed-out account of how Isildur met his end following the War of the Last Alliance

2) Cirion and Eorl- the tale of how the Rohirrim came to Rohan

3) The Hunt for the Ring- Great story (albeit with two slightly conflicting versions) of how Sauron began his hunt for the Ring, and how the Nazgûl eventually found their way to Bag-end. My quote above was from a subsection of this, dealing specifically with Saruman and Gandalf.

4) The Battle of the Fords of Isen- Ever wonder what was happening in Rohan when the Fellowship was being split at Parth Galen? It's all here, though I think that the consistent reference to Saruman's troops here as 'uruks' is in error.

Supplemental-
Stories on the nature of the Palantiri, the Istari, and the Druedain (folks like Ghan-buri-ghan. All very interesting (esp. the palantiri).

That's what I can remember. There's probably more on the first age, but I can't recall any off-hand.

[PRH]

aragil, I don't think there are any pot references in the movie except for Saruman's. "Your love of the halfling's leaf has clearly slowed your mind" really just comes off as a pot joke. It may have just been a nod to all that 60's 'what exactly were they smoking' stuff, but I truly think that was the reference. It is well within (book) Saruman's character to say something in jest to Gandalf about pipe-weed but I do believe this particular rip was a out-of-place pot comparasion (just like dwarf-tossing).

[Thorin II]

Haha! I remember that part. If the scene in the movie weren't so gloomy and dark, then it could have gone over quite well.

Still...I don't know. My head hurts too much to imagine it into the scene.

I dunno, maybe I'll get an aspro...


Thorin the Second.

[Legolas_lover12]

LOL. i remember that!and that could've fit in right after gandalf tried to open the doors for the 1st time.
and i thought it was all funny. well, the dwarf tossing thing might have been a bit much but it didn't ruin the movie for me or anything...

[ReadWryt]

The line of Gandalf's that *I* personally missed was on the way up Caradhras...

"If Gandalf would go before us with a bright flame, he might melt a path for you," said Legolas. The storm had troubled him little, and he alone of the Company remained still light of heart.

"If Elves could fly over mountains, they might fetch the Sun to save us," answered Gandalf. "But I must have something to work on, I cannot burn snow."

and in "The Treason of Isengard" he goes on to say,

"But I could turn Legolas into a flaming torch, if that will serve: he would burn bright while he lasted."

"Spare me!," cried Legolas, "I fear that a dragon is concealed in the shape of our wizard. Yet a tame dragon would be useful at this hour"

"It will be a wild dragon if you say any more," said Gandalf.


That conversation cracks me up every time...

[Legolas_lover12]

LOL. i guess i missed that when i read the book. but, thenagain, i probably missed a lot of things ....:D;)

[Pelvidar]

Tolkien had such a pleasent sense of humour :)

[Legolas_lover12]

yes, i laugh a lot when i'm reading the books.:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Minas]

The carrot should have stayed in the garden cause it sure wasn't funny to me

[ReadWryt]

The part above where I mentioned "The Treason of Isengard" was from "The Fellowship of the Ring", everything below is from "The Treason of Isengard" from "The History of Middle-earth". In fact in many of Tolkien's early manuscripts (In his case they truely WERE manu-(hand)scripts(writings)) Gandalf was a bit more testy and grumpy then he was in the final draft.