The Rings of power

[Falex1100]

What confuses me about lotr is the rings of power, 7 for the dwarves, 3 for the elves and 9 for the men, ok, they gave the power for the kings to control their land/empire/realm but when Sauron created the one ring, what happened? did the kings and lords who where given the rings turn evil and give their land to sauron? or did they weaken them so sauron could attack and take the free lands of middle-earth? i know that the dwarves and elves manadged to get rid of their rings and the men became 'wraiths', so does this mean the dwarven lands and elven lands go untouched? i cant really explain my question thatw ell, but if you ge it, please reply :D

[Ravenna]

As far as I can tell, it was a gradual procedure, with mortals at least, they slowly fell under the domiation of Sauron, presumably turning evil and into the Nazgul.
The dwarves, did not seem to be directly affected in the same way, their rings appear to have worked on their lust for gold etc rather than for power, and they were all either destroyed or regained by Sauron.
As for the Elven rings, they were never under the domination of Sauron ofr his ring. Sauron aided the elven smiths in the forging of the other rings, but Celebrimbor became aware of what Sauron was doing and hid the three rings he had made and Sauron never touched them. They therefore had no detrimental effect on those who wielded them, and could be used to help fight or guard against the evil, although after the One was destroyed, their power waned.

I'm sure others have a more in depth knowledge, but hope this helps for starters.

[Gothmog]

Ok, the first thing to tell you is that the '3' the '7' and the '9' are ALL Elven Rings made by the Elven smiths of Erigion through the lore given them by Sauron in disguise. When Sauron made the One Ring to control the others he hoped to enslave the Elves with them. When this did not happen because the Elves took off the rings, Sauron then attacked Erigion and took 16 of the Rings from the Elves.

The only ones he could not find were the last three to be made by Celebrimbor and were the most powerful of the Elven Rings.

Of the 16 Elven rings that Sauron stole He gave 7 to the Dwarves hoping to subdue them to his service but did not get the result he wanted. He also gave 9 to Mortal Men who then became great kings in their time before slowly being overcome by the rings and turning into slaves of Sauron Called the Nazgul.

[Falex1100]

Ahhh, i think i get it now but not 100%, so he gave the rings in disquise, they found out, took them off, he then came back , took 16 of them, gave them to the dwarves and men, the men fell under his endlavment, the dwarves didnt, but how would he enslave eberyone else? all the normal men and dwarves, what i se si that he aimed to ensalve the rulers so im sota still confused

[Elfarmari]

Sauron didn't just go take the rings back from the Dwarves, he hd to steal them, kill the wearer, or torture them Thror (? I thinkthat was his name; Thorin Oakenshields father) was tormented in Dol Guldor for quite some time before Sauron was able to take the ring. The Men became sorcerers and great kings through the power of the rings, and were gradually corrupted and drawn to Sauron's growing power. Sauron meant for this to happen to the dwarves and elves also, but luckily was thwarted.

[Gothmog]

Falex1100, Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you.

Sauron did not give the Rings to the Elves, he showed them how to make them. But yes after his attempt to enslave the Elves failed he returned to Erigion and stole the Rings from them.

He tried to enslave some Dwarves and Men with the Rings but was only partialy successful with this as the Dwarves could not be turned to Wraiths and would not be dominated by anyone. However, Men could. This meant that those of Men who were enslaved to the Rings became rulers in their time and by enslaving these kings of Men Sauron had the means to guide nations to his cause as these kings would follow him and their subjects would do so or die.

Using the hosts then under his command he could do war on the peoples of Middle-earth not under his sway.

When the Nine at last were turned to Wraits, Sauron used them in much the same way as Melkor (Morgoth) used the Balrogs - to spread fear and dispair amongst his foes.

I hope that helps.:)

[Falex1100]

I see now! thnk you all for the help :D

[Gothmog]

Originally posted by Walter
Gothmog - as always - has hit it on the head with his replies. Only nitpicking I could - and as always can't resist to ;) - do is that Sauron rather took the rings by force than stole them from the elves...

We all now that you cannot resist temptation;) but in defence of my way of describing how Sauron got the Rings from the Elves, Mugging is still theft but with force. Sauron just had to use excessive force to carry out his "Mugging" of the Elves.:D

[Kalmanluin]

To Gothmog:

Sauron did not take the Elven Rings of Power from the Elves.

He DID show them how to make the Rings, but he did NOT have anything to do with the actual forging of the Elven rings, so Sauron did not touch and befoul them and so could not have any control over the Elves as he so desired. Celebrimbor did not allow Sauron and I believe in fact kept secret the forging of the Elven rings.

When Sauron forged the One Ring and put it on, Celebrimbor finally knew who Sauron really was and his evil intentions. For Sauron disguised himself as a fair being and perhaps he did regret the evil that he commited for Morgoth, but his lust for power overtook him, along with his jealousy of the Elves and his hatred and hunger for revenge against the Numenoreans. For it was the men of Numenor who defeated Sauron and took him prisoner.

[Dwimmerlaik]

Dear Kalmanluin,
As you have stated in your post:"He DID show them how to make the ring's,but he did NOT have anything to do with the actual forging of the elven ring's,"
Correct thus far,but only to a point,Sauron did not physically aid the elve's in the forging of the ring's,but they did learn a great deal in their method of construction from him.
Sauron may not have had physical contact with the three elven ring's,he did not necessarily have to,as these ring's were made with at least some of his influence.
Unfortunately for the elve's,the forging of their ring's was not the great secret as they would have hoped.Sauron was more than aware of their ring's and hoped to capitalise on the wearer's power's to be subservient to his own.

[Kalmanluin]

Dwimmerlaik;

yes, you are right. But my point is that the Elven Rings of Power were not stolen from the Elves; Celebrimbor gave one ring to Gil-Galad (Vilya), another ring to Galadriel (Nenya), and he gave the last one to Cirdan (Narya), who eventually gave to Gandalf. Celebrimbor did this before Ost-en-Edhil was destroyed by Sauron when he return from the Drowning of Numenor.

[Grond]

Originally posted by Kalmanluin
Dwimmerlaik;

yes, you are right. But my point is that the Elven Rings of Power were not stolen from the Elves; Celebrimbor gave one ring to Gil-Galad (Vilya), another ring to Galadriel (Nenya), and he gave the last one to Cirdan (Narya), who eventually gave to Gandalf. Celebrimbor did this before Ost-en-Edhil was destroyed by Sauron when he return from the Drowning of Numenor. Ringlore 101
If you'll notice Kalmanluin, Gothmog only spoke of the 16 not the 19. It should again be noted that all 19 of the Rings of Power (9, 7, 3) were made by the Elven-smiths of Eregion. They were all originally Elvish Rings and they were all taken by force from the Guild of the Gwaith-i-Mirdain in Ost-in-Edhil by Sauron after he forged the One.

The sixteen Elven Rings which were later given to Men and Dwarves by Sauron were made with Sauron's direct input. It is not said whether he actually aided in the forging or not but it is likely. The only Rings he didn't have direct input were the Three... but since they were made with knowledge "obtained" from Sauron... they, too, were subservient to the One.

This is all very plainly laid out in Unfinished Tales, Of Celeborn and Galadriel and has been extensively quoted in other threads on the subject. Gothmog is a loremaster extraordinaire in this forum. Also, being a Balrog, it isn't wise to cross him.... especially when you've merely misinterpreted what he wrote.

[Anárion]

I dont know a whole lot about the three rings of the Elves...(well, now I do, but thats not the point)...but as I understand the 7 rings given to the Dwarves fulfilled their purpose. Now as it says in the book(s), Dwarves cannot be controlled in any way, no matter how strong the rings desire is...(I think) but the rings did fufill their purpose on the Dwarves and that made them gold/Mithril hungry and cared of nothing of the outside world.

As for the 9 given to men, as Gothmog said, they became great and then were corrupted by the ring.

However that brings me to a question, do you think Dwarves could resist the One Ring? It says somewhere that Dwarves cannot be controlled by any magic, or whatever.....or....maybe Im talking gibberish?