GOP: Asylum Seekers

[LadyGaladriel]

9Ive edited my post because its obviously causing some people offence

[DGoeij]

Aaah, Kosovo... It would be great going back to the booby-traps, the bandits, hostile neighbours, burned down farms and Western Soldiers who cannot protect you. I recently saw a documentary about that place. I'm planning my vacation elsewhere.

People can vote with their feet too. And they are right, the Western world is richer, so it's best to come here and get what you can. And as long as the rich part of the world does not care what happens in the poorer parts, I don't blame them either.

And I strongly believe that the taxes in my country will rise more because of the everlasting problems with football hooligans (consider the amount of policemen on duty, on Sunday, plus hazard pay) than people stuffed in cheap housing waiting for something between 5 - 10 years to hear wether they are allowed to stay or not.
And the largest part of the illigal immigrants is working, paying taxes and sending its kids to school. I'm usually more frightened by people who are actually born here.

Or am I oversimplifying the problem?

[LadyGaladriel]

In my country Illegal imingrants are a much bigger problem as there can be regular clashes with my own people.


I think this thread is going to be shut down though soon cause not many people seem to wanna talk about it .

[Legolam]

To be fair, most of the clashes between immigrants and the "natives" are started by the citizens of our own fair country because we are not particularly tolerant.

I don't really see the problem with immigration. Sure, we have problems in this country, but they're nothing compared to what some of these people have suffered. Surely we have enough humanity to listen to their pleas for safety?

[Dengen-Goroth]

I believe there is some piece of legislation within the U.S. to allow all illegal immigrants permanent stay power, or something along those lines. but has not yet been passed. So I ask you this, how many of those "aliens" have you seen walking around in Gucci clothing, driving in their BMW's, living in opulent five bedroom villas? And how many have you seen wearing second-hand clothing, working intolerable hours for meager pay, living in overcrowded apartments and battling horrid conditions, only clinging to the hope that they would be granted citizenship or a Green Card so that they may not return to where they came from. Many of the jobs they take are those legal citizens would not take. If you would prefer working in a factory which does not comply to safety regulations for many hours a day only to be given some twenty or thirty dollars a week and return to your bungalow you call home, excellent. But I doubt many would. My little addition, don't throw to much at me:)

[Gamil Zirak]

Originally posted by Dengen-Goroth
I believe there is some piece of legislation within the U.S. to allow all illegal immigrants permanent stay power, or something along those lines. but has not yet been passed.
There isn't any legislation to those affects.
[B]So I ask you this, how many of those "aliens" have you seen walking around in Gucci clothing, driving in their BMW's, living in opulent five bedroom villas? And how many have you seen wearing second-hand clothing, working intolerable hours for meager pay, living in overcrowded apartments and battling horrid conditions, only clinging to the hope that they would be granted citizenship or a Green Card so that they may not return to where they came from. Many of the jobs they take are those legal citizens would not take. If you would prefer working in a factory which does not comply to safety regulations for many hours a day only to be given some twenty or thirty dollars a week and return to your bungalow you call home, excellent. But I doubt many would.
Tsk, tsk. Those illegal aliens can get a work visa and come over here and work. Besides, those unsafe working conditions are illegal and if you had citizens performing those duties the company would not be allowed to pay that little or to have an unsafe work environment.

The worst part about illegal imigrants is that they are giving citezenship rights. They are allowed to use food stamps and get on welfare. If you want to come to this country, do it the legal way.

[daisy]

Ewww, Lady Galadriel, gross, " my people"? Do you happen to be Australian? Because unless you are sub-saharan African, tribal Asiatic, or maybe Teutonic, I have some news for you.....

[Thorin]

Let's throw a bit of a twist on this discussion...What about asylum for criminals?

Case in point: Charles Ng was wanted for torture and murder in California. He was caught in Calgary, Alberta on shoplifting charges and assaulting a police officer and Canada wouldn't deport him because they knew he'd get the death penalty. He stayed in a Canada jail for 4 years on the shoplifting/assault charge....

That must have been the only time as a Canadian that I was embarassed of my country....We should be ashamed for such foolishness. I hope that Canada doesn't get a reputation around the world as a "bleeding heart" justice system (though here in British Columbia it is joke).

Any comments?

[DGoeij]

If I remember my International Law classes correctly, this man should have been gone to trail for murder, in Canada.
Based on the rule with this latin name I keep forgetting, but means that, either you send him/her to the country where the crime was commited, or you prosecute him/her yourself for the crime he/she was accused of.
This to make sure that criminals do not cross a border and get away with it. Canada was, as a nation, in its right not to send this man to the USA, because of the difference of opinion on the deathsentence, but (still IIRC) they should have prosecuted him for murder nevertheless, apart from the crimes commited in Canada itself.

EDIT: Forget the above, that would only count if the supposed murderer was a Canadian himself. In that case the latin term would have been aut dedere aut iudicare
Now in this case, the USA is asking for one of its own subjects. So assuming Canada and the USA have treaties on these matters (would be more than logic, considering the large border they share) the Canadians would have to deliver the suspect to the authorities. Assuming that the allegation is a criminal offence in both nations involved, but we're talking murder here, that should be no issue.
In this case, that could be after he did time for the crimes commited in Canada, or the USA would take these events into account and trail the man for both the murder and the crimes in Canada.(depending on the treaty)
Because of the death penalty, Canada is allowed not to deliver the man, unless the USA guarantees that he would not recieve that particular penalty.

Considering all that, I wonder what was going on that this man was not sent to the USA.

[Thorin]

Originally posted by DGoeij
In this case, that could be after he did time for the crimes commited in Canada, or the USA would take these events into account and trail the man for both the murder and the crimes in Canada.(depending on the treaty)
Because of the death penalty, Canada is allowed not to deliver the man, unless the USA guarantees that he would not recieve that particular penalty.

What you said is exactly right. The state of California stated that it would be seeking the death penalty against Ng. So Canada made him stay in Canada to serve the crime committed in Calgary first...I'm not sure what happened after that that Canada finally deported him...Either way, I still find it unacceptable that we would continue to harbor a sex-murderer in our midst who not only came to our country illegally to hide from the law in his own country, but who also committed crimes here as well....They should have shipped the sicko and let him face the music, rather than waste 4 years in a Canadian jail for a lesser offence....

[daisy]

charles ng was eventually extradited to the United States and was put on trial for his horrific murders. If memory serves me correctly, the problem with Ng's extradition was the appeals and challenges to that extradition from his lawyers, not from the Crown. Therefore, it was not the Canadian justice system balking at extraditing Ng, it was just the usual mess ups and delays due to appeals. A little while ago though, Canada did deny extradition to the United States for a criminal convicted of helping his friend kill the friend's parents. Yet I believe this guy was a Canadian, and that is why Canada got involved in the extradition, because they did not want a Canadian facing a possible death sentence....could be wrong about the guy's nationality.Hey, as has been proven , the United States is a smuch of a harbour for terrorists, murderers etc. than Canada even with the death penalty.

[DGoeij]

That's the problem when you respect law. Even the most disgusting criminals get treated in a fair and just manner. However, rather that than see innocent people suffer in a medieval system.

Here in the Netherlands we had this problem with a Kurdish resistance fighter from Turkey. Well, the Turks called him a terrorist of course. They wanted to bring him to trail. He would most likely face the death penalty, so it was already a difficult scenario. Apart from the protesting Kurds in the Netherlands who did not wish to see their 'hero' rot in a Turkish jail. I completely forgot whatever happened to him too.