Valinor? a metaphor for heaven

[the_merv]

if elves are like the angels of middle earth and they came across the sea from valinor then is valinor tolkien's metaphor for heaven.

[ReadWryt]

Actually the Elves are just...er...Elves. The Istari and other Maiar were more to be compared to Angels.

[Ravenna]

Strictly speaking, I would say not as Valinor is not aplace where 'good' dead people go, but a place where those who do not die live (if that makes sense) The only dead people there were the spirits of elves who could be reincarnated.

[Nenya Evenstar]

I would say no, strictly because Tolkien when writing the books was not making them an allegory in any way. In fact he hated allegories. Here's a quote from him:

As for any inner meaning or "message", it (the books) has in the intention of the author none.

So, I don't think that he meant for Valinor to be in any way meant as heaven. I believe it is just another one of his great and wonderful ideas!

BTW, didn't the humans go to the Halls of Mandos when they died? That was in Valinor too.

[Maeglin]

Originally posted by ReadWryt
Actually the Elves are just...er...Elves. The Istari and other Maiar were more to be compared to Angels.

so then would Saruman be like Lucipher?:confused:

[Elbereth]

My belief has always been that Valar are the equivalent angels....and Maiar are simply lesser angels.

Taking to consideration that Tolkien was Catholic, he believed in only one God. Therefore the idea of the Valar being gods (at least in my opinion) would be blasphemous to that Catholic ideology.

[Thorin]

If you were comparing it to heaven, Morgoth would have been considered Lucifer. Keep in mind that Tolkien was also influenced by many different myths. If the theology of Christianity doesn't always add up (i.e. demi-gods), it's probably due to the other influences....

[Ceorl]

I would definitely say that Valinor was a heaven, Tolkien often talked about the Valar as 'gods'.

A better comparison could probably be made to Greek Theology, and Valinor would be like Mt. Olympus; A place within the world, where dwell the gods. But it is protected and no ordinary mortal could come there.

It is true that Tolkien despised allegory, however you can have comparisons and similarities without it being an allegory. All theologies have a 'heaven' or place where the God(s) live, it is a required part and does not make it an allegory.

Also the Elves did not come from Valinor. They were born to the NE of the center of ME, and from there were invited by the Valar to join them in Valinor.

[Nóm]

Originally posted by the_merv
if elves are like the angels of middle earth and they came across the sea from valinor then is valinor tolkien's metaphor for heaven.
Valinor isn't a metaphor it is a place. They elves didn't originate in Valinor.

[Maeglin]

well you're right technically they didn"t originate in Valinor, but that is where they thought of, it is where they came to be in the mind of the Valar, Manwe in particular.

[Ragnarok]

If you want to get technical, Taniquetil would be more like Mt Olympus.

[Maeglin]

oh yeah thats right, I hadn't really thought of that