How can I learn an Elvish language?

[DMEII]

Hello all,
I saw a post where someone commented that he could read and write Elvish. I would like to learn to speak in the Elven language. How can I do this? I once studied Scottish Gaelic at an online study site (it sounds a lot like LOTR Elvish to me), so is there a website where you can go to learn it or books or what? I once had a great Tolkien language site bookmarked but have since lost it. Anyone know what it was? Which of the Elven languages did Legolas' people speak and which did the ones in Lothlorian speak?
Thanks,
Dave

[tasar]

ok, I might not be correct here, but I think that both Mirkwood and Lothlorien elves were silvan. Wich means they spoke silvan. That is pretty much the same as sindarin, with some very minor differences.
If you really want to learn some of it then...the only site I know is www.ardalambion.com

[DMEII]

Hello Tasar,
Thanks for the site info. I went there and that is a neat site. I believe that is the one that I referred to that I had at one time a long time ago.
By the way, what is the difference between "Sandarin" and "Quenya"? I noticed a downloadable course in Quenya. I wonder if they have something like that in Sandarin? I wonder if there is available at book stores Elven/English-English/Elven(Sandarin or Quenya) dictionaries
Thanks,
Dave

[Cian]

"By the end of the Third Age, the Silvan tongues had probably ceased to be spoken in the two regions that had importance at the time of the War of the Ring: Lórien and the realm of Thranduil in northern Mirkwood" (UT).

A footnote to Appendix F explains that in Frodo's day, Sindarin was spoken in Lórien "though with an 'accent', since most of its folk were of Silvan origin.

[Lantarion]

Welcome to the forum, DMEII! :)
Quenya is the High-Elven language, the original langauge created by the Elves when they first awoke. It is much more refined and ceremonial (but immesurably cool; like Latin!) than Sindarin, which is the more common form of spoken Elvish; though it is little less beautiful.
But I strongly suggest you check out Ardalambion, as it is the single nest site to be found on the Eldarin languages. Also, if you haven't read the Silmarillion, please do so! It is (in my humble opinion) Tolkien's finest work of literature.
Welcome again, and enjoy learning whichever language you will attempt to learn! :D (IF you have the time, try to learn to write the Tengwar!)

[Beorn]

There are two threads in this forum, within the past two days dealing with learning Elvish. Read http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5873

[Cian]

Originally posted by Lantarion: Quenya is the High-Elven language, the original langauge created by the Elves when they first awoke.

To be a bit more detailed about the early period, from Helge (edited by me for brevity):

_____
"The language made by the first Elves at Cuiviénen was to have an immense impact on the linguistic history of Middle-earth. Usually called Primitive Quendian, it was the ultimate ancestor of all Elvish languages, including Quenya and Sindarin.

What was it like, the tongue that the Elves formed in those first years of innocence by the starlit waters of Cuiviénen? We know much of its phonology and methods of derivation; we know less of its precise grammatical structure. Judging from the daughter-languages that are commonly held to be least changed from the original, namely Quenya and Telerin, PQ was a case language; an allative ending -da is explicitly mentioned by Tolkien (WJ:366)."
_____

cheers

[DMEII]

Thanks y'all for the help and advice. I was wondering, which language was it that Arwen and Aragorn were speaking when they spoke in Elven in LOTR? I wonder which would be easier to learn, Sandarin or Quenya?
And an interesting note:: When I first saw the movie (LOTR), and when I first heard Elven, I immediately told my wife that it almost sounded like Scottish-Gaelic (which I have studied some), or at least reminded me of it. It is interesting that on one of the Tolkien related sites I read somewhere that Tolkien's Elven languages were sort of Celtic based. I believe it. By the way, as far as I know, Scottish-Gaelic is one of the only six surviving examples of the Celtic languages (Scottish-Gaelic, Irish-Gaelic, Manx[Isle of Man], Cornish [Cornwall], Welch [Wales], and Breton [Brittanny]). I intend on studying one of the Elven languages, but I want to study the one they spoke in the movie?
Take care,
Dave

[LúthienTinúviel]

Hey Dave. They were speaking Sindarin, which, I'm sorry to say, is much more difficult to learn than Quenya, the other major alternative. Sindarin is both more complex grammatically and there is less information available on it. Nevertheless, with a lot of work, a fairly good mastery of the language is indeed possible. The reason Aragorn and Arwen spoke Sindarin is because by the time of the War of the Ring, Sindarin was the daily elven vernacular, whereas Quenya had passed into an old language used mainly for the keeping of books. So, for example, a history of the War of the Ring written by an elvish historian would be written in Quenya, whereas a song composed would most likely be Sindarin.

However, Galadriel's Lament: Namárië, is one of the most complete examples of Quenya as utilized by Tolkien. One reason for this is that Galadriel was a Noldo, and thus her native tongue is Quenya, though she certainly spoke Sindarin. Is this making sense? Basically if you were an elf and chatting with someone you'd be using Sindarin. :)

Gwaith i-Phethdain has an elvish movie dialogue breakdown here: http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie_elvish.htm

Hope that helped some. :)

[DMEII]

Hello again.
I was wondering, what about the orders that Elrond shouted during the battle with Sauron's army at the beginning of the movie; "Tangod haid! Hado i philinn!" ("Hold your fire! Fire your arrows!"). Am I correct in assuming that Sandarin as well, or the High Elvish, Quenya?
Thanks once again.
Dave

[Elfstone]

Hey DMEII,
There is a book that can teach you the fourteen languages of Middle-Earth and you can get it at some bookstores for $16.00. It is pretty cool.
I can't think of the name of it right now but I will try to get back to you later. Eomer88 will know the name of the book because he has it.

[Elfstone]

Namerie means "Farewell" in Elvish.

[Beorn]

the fourteen languages

Fourteen? I can only think of these:


Westron
Quenya
Sindarin
Black Speech
Khuzdul
Entish
Rohirric
The one Ghan-Buri-Ghan spoke (forgot what it's called...Druadan?)

[LúthienTinúviel]

First off, I definitely don't recommend the books. I've looked through some and talked to other language scholars, and the general consensus is that they're outdated and not as useful as the info you can get for free on the internet.

As for the languages...14 hmm? I can think of a bunch. There are more than 14 languages created by Tolkien.


Quenya
Sindarin
Adûnaic
Westron
Telerin
Doriathrin
Nandorin
Old Sindarin
Ilkorin
Avarin
Khuzdul
Entish
Orcish\Black Speech
Valarin
Primitive Elvish
Khandian
Rohirric
Dunlending
Drúedainic


And then there are a few he made up from his childhood. As far as those books "teaching" you all 14 languages that are included is impossible. They can give you what little info was known at the time of publication, but only Quenya and Sindarin can be learned with any sort of fluency whatsoever, and even they are sadly full of holes. My advice is to stick with reliable internet resources. They have the best, up to date info, easy access, and even better...it's all free. :)

[Mula]

Originally posted by DMEII
And an interesting note:: When I first saw the movie (LOTR), and when I first heard Elven, I immediately told my wife that it almost sounded like Scottish-Gaelic (which I have studied some), or at least reminded me of it.

Yeah, Sindarin is apparently partly based on Gaelic or some such (I'm not familiar with those languages). Quenya, though, is based on Latin, Finnish and Greek. Sindarin has a lot of soft sounding 'th' voices (at least that's how it sounded like in the Movie) and don't those Gaelic type languages have them, too? Quenya sounds a lot like Finnish or Greek (obviously :) ).

[Cian]

Generally speaking, Welsh inspired Sindarin, and the Prof. did not much like (Irish) Gaelic.

"Welsh has a common origin with the Gaelic languages of Scotland and Ireland, but belongs to its own family (of which the other living survivor is Breton) and is very different in appearance and pronunciation from Gaelic." Noted Tolklinguist David Salo

[DMEII]

Hello Mula,
While it does remind me of Scottish-Gaelic (Of the six surviving Celtic languages; Scottish-Gaelic, Irish-Gaelic, Manx, Cornish, Welch, and Breton, I have studied only Scottish-Gaelic just a little), there are no "th" sounds in Scottish-Gaelic. Actually "th" is silent in Scottish-Gaelic. But there are a lot of h, v, j, and sh sounds in Scottish-Gaelic though. For example; "Madainn mhath!" (Good morning), pronounced like "Mahteen Vah". Or something like "Ciamar a tha sibh?" (How are you?), pronounced like "Kehmuhr a ha shiv"? Also something like, "Tha i glè bhrèagha an diugh!"("It is very beautiful today!"), pronounced like, "Ha ee glay vreea-uh uhn jew!" "Slainte mhath mo bhrathair. Is mis Dàibhidh Èdelen." ("Good health to you my brother! I am David Edelen."), pronounced like "Slanjeh vah moe vra-ear! Ish misheh Dah-ivih Aydelen." To me one pretty expression in Scottish Gaelic is the one for "Please". It is spelled "Mas e do thoil e", pronounced "Ma shay do hol ay". Said quickly; "Mashay doholay", it sounds pretty and fluid, sounding like one or two words, and reminds me of Elvish. Oh well, I have bored you enough with Gaelic. I am no expert by any means anyway, just a student once upon a time.
Take care,
Dave

[Lantarion]

Wow! :eek: Incredible, I would love to know even that much of Gaelic! :) Oh well, I guess Finnish is just so cool that it will suffice for now. ;) I am also going to read Latin in High School, but only in a couple moths or so. *sniff*
I could give you a huge lecture on the similarities between Finnish and Quenya, and explain in detail the intricacies of my marvelous mother-tongue, but I won't because I'm too knackered. :D

Uhm, and if this book some people are referring to is called The Languages of Tolkien's Middle-Earth, just forget it. It is outdated and incorrect.

[CloakedShadow]

I haven't read the entire thread (which is an 'oops' on my part, most likely) but in the back of the Silmarillion there are elvish rootwords, and in the back of Return of the King, there is the alphabet in Elvish Runes, which is what I use to write to my friends during school. :D Hope that helps, if someone hasn't already told you that. :rolleyes:

Until next time...
The Cloaked Shadow

[Earendil]

Originally posted by DMEII
Hello again.
I was wondering, what about the orders that Elrond shouted during the battle with Sauron's army at the beginning of the movie; "Tangod haid! Hado i philinn!" ("Hold your fire! Fire your arrows!"). Am I correct in assuming that Sandarin as well, or the High Elvish, Quenya?
Thanks once again.
Dave

Hey dave it is sindarin...i don't think they speack any Quenya in the fellowship but the documents such as Gandalf's papers are in quenya! and as for those books that teach the languages of middle-earth they are pretty outdated adn wrong...you should use the free interent sites...i am quite young but i am quite fluent in sindarin after i am finished i hope to master quenya and write tengwar! so anim estel anim thaed lle !!! that means i hope i helped you! see you aruond!!

[DMEII]

Hey Earendil,
That is interesting. For some reason I was thinking that what Elrond spoke during that battle ("Tangado haid! Hado i philinn!"="Hold your positions! Fire your arrows!") was Quenya. How long did it take you to learn Sandarin reasonably well? Is the sentence structure like English, or is it like Scottish-Gaelic and some other languages where everything is backwards? Where did you learn Sandarin from?
Thanks,
Dave

[Lantarion]

The best place on the net to learn the languages of Tolkien perfectly! (http://www.ardalambion.com)

[Earendil]

Hey dave well i know that it is sindarin because those are sindarian words but they may suond Quenya i do not know how to speak quenya right now...but those are definately Sindarian words...it toook me about half a year maybe more or i think it was like way more i can't really recall when i first started...i learned it from alll the internet sites on the web adn i had to study the structure of the words such as verbs adn pronouns and sentence structure. well it depends on how you interpret it...like evrything is in the right order its just that in certain examples there are a few words missing from the sentence but mostly only helping verbs are the ones missing...