Questions on Reading the Silmarillion

[Rúmil]

Huch more like HOME vol.4. Much less good.

[Gil-Galad]

cesarfilho,read the Sil.That's the only way to understand that JRR.Tolkien wrote the book,not his son.His son just compiled it.

[¤-Elessar-¤]

Yes, quite right. That is undoubtably the best solution.

[Legolas_lover12]

it took me about 2 months. mainly because i had to go to the index 5 times on each page. because everyone and everyplace had to have 5 different names in 5 different languages. and then they had to change their name because something or another happened. gosh, keep the same name ur whole life and choose one language to have it in. it took me till when i was looking at the family trees in the back to realise that thingol was actually elwe. and it took me till about half way though the book to stop getting finrod and fingon confused. and trying to figure out which one had felegund as a surname. actually i still don't know that. it was finrod, wasn't it??...........and everyone's name sounds like someone else's name. hurin, turin. fingolfin, finarfin. tuor, huor, finwe, ingwe, elwe, olwe. curufin, carathir. it took me half way through the book to figure out who the sons of feanor were too. i've started unfinished tales now. am still in the first chapter. i wouldn't even be there if i haden't skiped the prologes and notes and stuff.
ok, done ranting:rolleyes:

[unearthly16]

3 or 4 days. Once I got through "the Music of the Ainur," and some action stuff started happening, I couldn't put it down.

Not that I read just action stuff. Maybe that was what I was in the mood for or something. I liked the romance between Beren and Luthien just as much.

[Legolas_lover12]

JJRT wrote it. his son just put it together and "filled in the gaps" so it would be more readable. i think he also said he shortened it so it wouldn't be soo long.

[Str!d3r]

i absolutely loved the hobbit and fellowship books

i started the silmarilion and it was kinda slow, should i continue the book?
is it good?(scale of 1-10)?

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by Str!d3r
i absolutely loved the hobbit and fellowship books

i started the silmarilion and it was kinda slow, should i continue the book?
is it good?(scale of 1-10)?

The style of the Sil is pretty much different than in LOTR and the Hobbit. You'll (probably) get lost with all those names at first,but take it slow,and you can always reread it later and fill in the gaps.
I'd give it a perfect 10 without much consideration and I'm guessing the majority of the people here will agree with me.But this is just a mere guess of course!;)

[Phenix]

I wuld say... a 10 maybe a 9 couse it was a difficult languitch (at least in the Swedish translation)

[¤-Elessar-¤]

it is a bit slow at the beginning, with the struggles between the Valar and Melkor, and then the coming of the elves and the coming of men... But after that you get into the wars of Beleriand, and those are all wonderful. The Silmarillion really opens you up to Tolkien's other writings, such as HoME and Unfinished Tales. It is an essential 10.

[Grond]

I suggest you read Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age first. It is a familiar topic and will keep your interest. Save the Ainulindale and the Quenta Simarillion til last and read them in spurts. The Quenta Silmarillion is like a book of short stories. You don't have to read them in order. Look in the table of contents and pick a story to read each week. I especially liked the story of Beren and Luthien and the story of Turin. It is definately a 10 but you have to work at it.

[Tinuviel]

It's hard for me to say because I didn't read it through all the way just once. Like others, I skipped back and forth between chapters. Some I read many times over, others I think that I've read only once. This summer I picked it up after many years and read most of the way through in a couple of days. This really is one of my favorite books. It gives so much history and makes everything else so much more understandable.:)

[Winch]

I just picked it up from the library last night. I have read AINULINDALE and VALAQUENTA 3 times now. It is so fascinating. I want to get all these Valar straight. I hope I can move on pretty soon!

[Winch]

I'm about 1/3 of the way thru it on my first reading. I'm really enjoying it but starting to get bogged down. I think once I have I finish it and have understood it well enough it will make another pass thru TH & LOTR much more enjoyable. Hang in there

[Winch]

I'm about 1/3 of the way thru The Sil on my first reading. I was doing fine for a while but now I'm starting to bog down. My question right now is: what delineates the different ages? You know, what marks the beginning and end of each? How many were there? I believe TH & LOTR occurs in the 3rd age right?

[Gamil Zirak]

The First Age begins with the Return of the Noldor to Middle-earth, the first rising of the Moon, and the Awakening of Men in Hildórien. It ends with the War of Wrath. The Second Age begins after the War of Wrath and ends with the overthrow of Sauron by the Last Alliance.

[Winch]

Crud, I haven't even got to the start of the first age yet! I was assuming it began at the beginning of creation. What is that interval before the first age referred to as?

[Gamil Zirak]

The time before the First Age is known as the Years of the Trees.

[¤-Elessar-¤]

they were still ages, though. They were ages of the trees, and then the later were ages of the sun, I beleive.

[Ceorl]

The ages are divided as follows: The ages of the lamps, these were the first lights for the lighting of ME. During the first spring of Arda the world was the fairest it has ever been.

Then the lamps were destoyed and around the same time Morgoth destroyed also the Valar's dwelling on the Isle of Ilmaren, therefore they removed from ME and went to Aman where they founded Valinor and Yavanna sang a song which sprouted the two trees of Valinor. What followed was known as the ages of the trees. These were the longest and the most joyous of all the ages, when Valinor was filled with things new and more beautiful every day, and the land lived in the light of the trees. ME was shielded from the light by the vast Pelori mountains and most of the things that grew there were put under the sleep of Yavanna that they might grow again when a new light had been divised.

The ages of the sun followed Morgoths destruction and the Valars setting of two great vessels in the sky- Anar ar Isil. These are the ages which we are most concerned with in our studies of ME.

The ages of the sun were as follows: First age of the sun, was deemed to begin when the moon first rose above the confines of the world, and it ended upon the defeat of Morgoth in the War of Wrath. The Second age was held to have ended upon the first defeat of Sauron, in the Last alliance.The third age was then held to have ended not upon the final destruction of Sauron but when the ringbearers, passed into the uttermost West. Thus began the fourth age, the age of men, in which the Elves faded and the men multiplied.

It is not only the ages of the sun that are divided up, the other lights were also divided into ages, but were never defined I dont think. for instance Melkor was sentenced to three ages locked in the halls of Mandos.

[Flame of Anor]

I thoroughly enjoyed it. I give it a perfect 10. It does get kind of confusing at times, but it works out in the end. Continue reading it. It gets better. It sheads light on many things.

-Flame

[Maeglin]

I'd give it a ten, its very difficult to remember all the names and who they are, I had to keep going back to find out who was who, and some of the chapters don't seem related at first and you'll be wondering why there in there, but eventually it all comes together and you'll understand why everything was there when you reach the end.

[Gil-Galad]

The Sil is 11 not 10!I like it more than LOTR.I won't try to proove my oppinion cause I believe most of the other members who have read it think the same thing.It's just a history of a world,full with great battles,deeds,and great sadness.

[Gil-Galad]

Well you can classify them very easy.But see this:
I ages-Melkor's life in Arda and the greatest ages for the elves.Their "Golden Century".
II ages-the time of Sauron and the last High king of all Noldors Gil-Galad-Me:cool: .
III-the returning of Sauron,first in Mirkwood and later in Mordor.The arriving of Maiar who have to help people,the last days of elves in ME and the war of the ring.
It's simple.

[Maeglin]

I wouldn't say its better than LOTR, but it does help understand everything they're always talking about in LOTR, anyone who reads it will be glad they did.:)

[Grond]

Originally posted by Glorfindel1187
I wouldn't say its better than LOTR, but it does help understand everything they're always talking about in LOTR, anyone who reads it will be glad they did.:) It's my favorite book simply because of its diversity. I will agree that it isn't necessarily better than LotR... just a different type of experience. :)

[Jon]

Read it all the way through without going back, however great the temptation. You will enjoy it more this way. When you`ve finished you can go back and `study it` if you want, but what is most important is the enjoyment.

[Dwarf Lord]

I've read both LOTR and The Hobbit, and i've been wanting to read other Tolkien books. The first book that came to my attention was The Silmarillion. The only reason i didn't get it was because i've heard it was written in a different style or manner. I was just wandering if any of you could shed some light on the matter? :confused: I would be more then happy if you could.

DWARF LORD

[Nóm]

Welcome to the forum Dwarf Lord..

The Silmarillion is written differently than the other two books. It doesn't follow in a straight line, rather each chapter tells a tale that ties in with the other tales in the book. These are told in good order though. The book starts with the creation of middle-earth and from there is tells of the major events of the first age. I think this book has something to offer for any Tolkien fan. I see you like Dwarvs..they too are in the book, not just Elves. I don't want to give anything away but there's some stuff in there that I think you will find quite interesting. In my opnion the book is as good as The lord of the Rings even if not written so simply.

[Dwarf Lord]

Thank you! I'll definatly find some time to read it. I'm glad they have dwarves, i do enjoy them! I like the idea of being a bold warrior living under a mountain, not to forget the honor!

DWARF LORD

[Old Man Willow]

Dwarf Lord,


Think of the Sil as the "bible" of Tolkien's works. LOTR is a specific example of one of the tales tied in with the whole story, harping on the third age. It is such an amazing piece of literature, but I will tell you, it's somewhat long and some have told me it's bored them to the point of stopping. Don't do this, because it is a beautiful, complete, and well-worth book when you've finished.

[Dwarf Lord]

Thank you, I will heed your advice and read through the whole thing. It's very odd though some peoples descriptions make it sound something like a poem. But it sounds great.


DWARF LORD

[Samwise_hero]

Should i mention that, that last post was a little WEIRD!!!
Not to mention a little under-sane!:)

[Beverly]

I would have to agree with the Old Man. Both have the creation of the universe and beings.
JRRT was a genius.

[Tserry]

It´s good to know, that I´m not the only one, who doesn´t understand The Silmarillion. I just started to read it. And I haven´t ever read any Tolkien´s book before. So, I´m totally clean list. My mother tongue is not englis, but The Silmarillion is in english, so that is probably one of the reasons, why it is difficult for me.
But is there some kind of summary of Silmarillon somewhere? Does somebody know? I thought, that if I could first read the summary, then it would be easyer for me to read the book itself.

[emopansy]

true tolkiens intelect in the silm is at times difficult to understand but i would atleast start with the trilogy since it would get you into the swing of his style.

[Gil-Galad]

Grond,:
"It's my favorite book simply because of its diversity"
The best sentence in the whole post I think.:p ;)

[Gil-Galad]

Old Man Willow,:
''Think of the Sil as the "bible" of Tolkien's works.''
A very good idea.:p
Dwarf_Lord,The Sil is very hard to read but Unfinished Tales are harder.Altough there aren't easy to read you will enjoy them,I guarantee!

[Nóm]

The Silmarillion is not difficult for everyone to read. I think that chances are if you Like the first part you'll find the book easier to read. I could be wrong but it seems to me that those who don't enjoy the first part are the ones who think it is harder to get into. I loved the opening part though....it was nothing like I expected even though I didnt know what to expect. I dont have the way with words to describe my opinions/feelings for that Book.

[LordofNumenor]

I just restarted the Silmarillion. I got it a while ago and read about half, then stopped. Its pretty amazing in places, but hard going. I found it pretty hard to follow in places, as everybody has a name similar to their father's.I will finish this time though. I hope.

[Winch]

I just finished the first reading of The Sil. It took 3 weeks off and on. I intend to read it again to see how much more I get out of it the next time but after that or in addition to it, what do you suggest I read next? I've only read TH & LOTR besides The Sil.

[Mormegil]

You should read 'Unfinished Tales' next.
It contains many stories from the First Age through to the end of the Third Age. Especially interesting are the extended tales of Tuor and Turin.

After that you should try reading the 12 volumes of 'The History of Middle Earth'. And possibly 'The Letters of JRR Tolkien'

I suggest you re read the Silmarillion a few times before reading HoME though, as you need to be fairly famiuliar with all the stories.

Have fun reading more about Middle Earth.:)

[Grond]

I found The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien to be the most enlightening read I've had in a long time. I would encourage you to read the Letters after you finish Unfinished Tales. HoMe is a daunting read as it was really written more for research material than as a cohesive story.

[elf boy]

The Sil is the probably the greatest single (notice i said single, i'm not going to try to compare it to LOTR, cause i don't know who would win and don't want to know either) book i've ever read. BUT, ya have to have the interest in the other books to make it through the Sil... at least it seems to me that ya would. The other books put the Sil into more of a context, and then when ya read the Sil, it puts the other books into context (sounds confusing, but i'm pretty much saying the Sil fills in stuff ya wondered about in the LOTR)

[Hama]

Tserry:
From one non-native English speaker to another, I would suggest you start reading the Trilogy first, and maybe perhaps the Hobbit. You may even find some of the stories from the Unfinished Tales easier to read, as it is probably closer to English literary material you have already been exposed to. Once you are through these, you will find it a lot easier to get into the style and language of the Silmarillion, as it uses a slightly archaic but more grand vocabulary which inexperienced English readers would be unfamiliar with.

[Gil-Galad]

LordofNumenor,no matter how difficult is you MUST finish it!!:p ;) :)

[DurinsBane]

Dwarf Lord,


Welcome, i am Durins Bane. It's Nice to see another Dwarf Lover join the Ranks of The Tolkein Forum.

"All Hail the king under the carven stone"

[mr underhill]

errrrrmm...

its a bit late look at his posts!

lol!

dwarfs 4 ever!

[Beverly]

The Silmarillion is my favorite. It took me from first reading the Hobbit,
which made me want to read the LOTR, which left me totally curious as to how all of these wonderful people/races started in the first place.
Yavanna was my favorite Valar.

[Silnarrin]

I thought the Silmarillion a masterpiece. Very much deeper than the LOTR and Hobbit. Written in an 'older' style. Some readers cannot get into it, and put the book down...I found it hard to shake off. The writing style gets into my brain...and example:

I was reading it last month (fourth or fifth time I guess), when my oldest son came into the room and said he was already tired of his new video game, and wished he had another. To which I said "And when you become weary of that one also, will you yet desire another?"
He just stared at me. I noticed then my wife was also staring at me.
My family does not understand when I speak Tolkieneese...
"You're just gonna have to deal with that one." I told my son.
My wife gave me a strange look, and went back to her book.
I went back to the Silmarillion.

[Anamatar IV]

Im serious. I started reading it like a week ago and im on page 70!!! Im usually a good reader---finished the entire LOTR books in 3 weeks flat. But THIS book! It is HARD! What age did you guys read this thing?

[Nóm]

If the book is too hard then get a papaer back. :D
Actually I first read it a couple months ago when I was 22. It is crammed full of information/names. Stick with it the best you can, and then try reading it a second time. Actually, our guild will be reading it a chapter at a time and discussing as we go along. This may be a great thing for you.

[LúthienTinúviel]

Aye, it is a wee complicated with all the people names and place names etc etc. Definitely headache material if you try to take it all in too fast or all at once. I suggest in addition to keeping a bookmark in the name index in the back for quick reference, also make use of the wonderful, though sometimes flawed, site The Encyclopedia of Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/). That was you get a quick name reference, but you can also quickly view more related topics. This will give you a broader and also more clear view of what's going on or who exactly a person is and why he\she is important.

<shameless advertising>
Also, I'm working on writing a *huge* Sil section for There And Back Again.net (http://www.thereandbackagain.net) which includes significant people\places\items\creatures, as well as beautiful illustrations done by Daniel Govar (webmaster of TABA and TORn staffer - aka saulone). If you want to see some very cool pictures of some of the Sil characters, it's worth checking that out.
</shameless advertising>

;)

[Anamatar IV]

well i would do that 1 chapter at a time thing but I need this for a 2 credit book report in about 1 week. I gotta read fast! The easy part is...i dont need to know the names. I only have to make a timeline of 10 events. Thatll be easy if I knew when it happened. :rolleyes:

[Ithrynluin]

I was 17 when I first read it,and it wasn't all that easy.I kept glancing at the index of names and eventually understood everything:rolleyes:
You're quite young Anamatar aren't you? Just take it slow you've got all the time in the world don't you? (except for that book report thing right?;) ) By reading it slowly you can enjoy and cherish every page of the book.

[Anamatar IV]

by reading slowly I can get an F on my book report for turning it in 2 weeks late. Ya know my family was proud of me when I read the LOTR series about a year ago. Whatll they say now?!? :rolleyes: ;)

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by Anamatar IV
by reading slowly I can get an F on my book report for turning it in 2 weeks late. Ya know my family was proud of me when I read the LOTR series about a year ago. Whatll they say now?!? :rolleyes: ;)

Emmm....That's our boy?:D

Well,sure if you have to read it that fast you'll just have to do that. But take your time after that and read it again (and again and again...) ;)

[Anamatar IV]

yeah-too bad I cant get credits for the same book again and again and again. Or else id just read LOTR all the time. :D I actually dont have to make a timeline now---I have to write 3 gifts for the main charecter. Er Umm. Who IS the main charecter??????

[Ithrynluin]

What do you mean 3 "gifts" ?
There is NO main character (lest it be the Silmarils themselves of course :p )

[Anamatar IV]

i have to think of 3 tangable and intangable gifts. Ill just give the silmars to morgoth, the light of the 2 trees to Ungoliant, and a sword made to slice Feanors neck clean and easy for Fingolfin. :D

[Phenix]

ok... well anyway first time i reed it I was 13 but I only reed half of it befor I quit... But this summer ( i'm 15 now) I reed the whole book pritty fast and I understood almost everything.

[Carantalath]

I thought the Silmarillion was hard the first time I read it too. But I stuck with it and now I'm reading it again. Here's a tip for you for reading it. When you're ready to stop, make sure it's at the start of the next chapter. I tried stopping in the middle of a chapter once and I got confused when I tried to start reading again. Good luck with your report thing!

[Anamatar IV]

now people tell me that at the end of the 1st hundred pages. ive had no problem stoppng in the middle of chapters actually. If a nice luxury to be able to stop on a chapter though.

[LadyGaladriel]

I found the same problem but Thanks to a very nice person on thwe forunm (Maedhos) I am trying it again

[Nenya Evenstar]

I first read it when I was about twelve. Boy, it went right over my head. I didn't even get anything out of it and don't think I learned anything from reading it. Then I read it again a year ago and got a lot more out of it and was able to really appreciate it and understand everything that went on. Unfortunately, I've found that it is a very easy book to forget what happens, and so I now have only a hazy idea of what happens. I just started reading it again and am making my way through it smoothly and without loosing concentration once. Yay! :D It always helps me to refer to the index and the maps frequently and to do things like memorize which Valar is married to which.

[gate7ole]

The biggest difficulty of the book, is the plethora of names, most of them are not used in many chapters. Most times, I had to check the previous chapters for that name that didn't ring abny bell. It is after all a mythology and should be given some time to be adopted. 2nd and 3rd readings of course help...

[Anduril]

Yes, I've to agree with you guys about "Silmarillion".

It's HUGE and DENSE, but, calm down, every history has its own beginning...

It's not easy to remember all those things, since Ainulindale to the whole adventures in the countless battles inside the story.

I suggest you to read it again, I know it can be hard and tiring, but think about it as a good experience that has to be discovered by parts.

I red the book when I was 20, and believe, I finished dizzy and with a massive headache...but I learnt a bunch...

Please, try it again.
At the end, It will be fun.

And PLEASE, don't set yourself with reading times or "records".
You're trying to catch a tremendous amount of info.
Be kind with your brain...you only have one...

If this idea can help you...when you finish a chapter, make a synthesis with the main ideas, it will help you to set the things in their own perspective.

Regards.
Good Luck.

C U Out there.

[Anamatar IV]

well not only do I need it for a project-its on the 10th grade reading list in the library so I have about 5 more days with this thing. :(

[Carantalath]

Wow, you're in the 10th grade too? So am I. Well, like I said before, just keep reading it. Do like that other people suggested and look up names and stuff in the index and you'll do fine.

[Anamatar IV]

nope not even close to 10th grade. Its on the 10th grade reading list. That doesnt mean im there. Try 2 grades down (reading level). im in the 7th grade otherwise.

[Elenaelin]

Persevere- the beginning of the Sil. can be a little tricky the first time, but once you get going, you can't put it down (at least I couldn't) I read it completely this year (10th year at school) but I started, muddled about halfway through it, then lost it/ had to read something else. The Sil. is so complicated ( that's one of it's beauties!) that you may want to pick a easier, pansy-ish book for your report. If you're going to soldier on (to which i STRONGLY ADVISE!) you may want to re- read each chapter once you're done with it (yeah, yeah, i know...it's a bit of an ego- deflation...) Keep working at it- you won't be sorry!

[Anamatar IV]

ya know this sounds like a weight loss commercial. Try and try some more. Youll be happy you did. I actually understand alot of it. Just seperating the maia and valar gives me the headache. Ill read again in a bout 2 years. I know i can read it then.

[Ancalagon]

The Silmarillion is still my favourite published work of Tolkiens, though I know Christopher has tirelessly worked upon revising much in HOME, The Sil is still the best read of the lot.

[Elenaelin]

You're the one who asked for help...besides, if this was a weight loss comercial, I'd promise that you could read the sil. in less than two week, you're IQ would be raised 50 points, and you would be active sought after by the opposite sex...

[Nóm]

Originally posted by Anamatar IV
ya know this sounds like a weight loss commercial. Try and try some more. Youll be happy you did. I actually understand alot of it. Just seperating the maia and valar gives me the headache. Ill read again in a bout 2 years. I know i can read it then.

Perhaps it is just beyond your reading level. Well, I know you can read it but I mean comprehension. I don't know..:confused:..anyhow: our guild will be reading this and discussing each chapter, wont you join that? :D

[Anamatar IV]

i keep forgetting to add smilies when i want to. I wanted a ;) thing there. Anyways i WOULD join but---A) thing due in 4 days.
B)-thing due in 4 days.

[LúthienTinúviel]

Yikes! Good luck...

Again, I suggest The Encyclopedia of Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/) as a quick reference tool. It'll help you to tell who's a Valar, Maia, elf, man, etc with only a few clicks of a mouse. :)

Then of course the awesome index of names. But sometimes thinking in alphabetical order gives me a headache (go figure...), so I get lazy and use Arda.

[Anamatar IV]

i have the index bookmark. Its so easy now. I look up stuff like Turgon when i get confused or like just now Maegil.

[Anamatar IV]

I havent understood this for a long time. What exactly is the Curse of Mandos? Its not in the index and i dont remember reading about it.

[Ceorl]

The Curse of Mandos, also known as the Doom of the Noldor, fell upon all those of the Noldor who fled from Aman to pursue Morgoth and wrest from him the Silmarils. It was not due to the flight of the Noldor that it was laid, as the Valar did not seek to hold any Elf in bondage. It was due however to the vicious kinslaying at Alqualonde where many of the finest mariners of the Teleri were slain.

'Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains. On the House of Feanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the west unto the uttermost East, and upon all that follow them shall it be laid also. Their oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin, and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Dispossessed shall they be forever.
'Ye have spilled the blood of your kindred unrighteously and have stained the land of Aman. For blood ye shall render blood, and beyond Aman ye shall dwell in Death's shadow. For though Eru appointed you not to die in Ea, and no sickness may assail you, yet slain ye may be, and slain ye shall be; by weapon and by torment and by grief; and your houseless spiritd shall come then to Mandos. There long shall ye abide and yearn for your bodies, and find little pity though all whom you have slain should entreat for you. And those that endure in Middle-Earth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden, and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger race that cometh after. The Valar have spoken.'

taken from; The Flight of the Noldor, The Silmarillion

Thus spoke Mandos himself before the host of the Noldor, and hearing his words, many of that host indeed repented and turned back, and formost among them was Finarfin youngest son of Finwe.

That was the curse of Mandos

[Anamatar IV]

Im in the chapter Turin Turambar or whatever but thats not the point. I just said that because i dont want people to give me any spoilers. OKAY! NO SPOILERS!!! I was just wondering...ive read about lots of battles and the elves always lose! Morgoth always wins and the elves and men are always utterly defeated. So heres my question...do the elves ever win a single battle?!?!:confused: and if they did how did they win the war when morgoth had won so many?

[Elenaelin]

Oh yes- they do win....it will take a while...but it does happen...but i can't give the secret away of course...they had help (i probably ought not to say that);)

[Nóm]

Originally posted by Anamatar IV
Im in the chapter Turin Turambar or whatever but thats not the point. I just said that because i dont want people to give me any spoilers. OKAY! NO SPOILERS!!! I was just wondering...ive read about lots of battles and the elves always lose! Morgoth always wins and the elves and men are always utterly defeated. So heres my question...do the elves ever win a single battle?!?!:confused: and if they did how did they win the war when morgoth had won so many?

Anamatar... you just contradicted the heck outta yourself. If you knew the answer to this question you would understand that it can not be answered with spoiling the Quenta Silmarillion...:D

[Anamatar IV]

also you dont need to try not to tell me turin kills morgoth. some THOUGHTLESS PEOPLE ON THIS VERY FORUM (;) ) posted it somewhere. Thats what drives me on. To read where that happens.

And confusedicated (hope you dont mind :p ) the que-hoosa sil-what-now? ;)

[Nóm]

Originally posted by Anamatar IV
also you dont need to try not to tell me turin kills morgoth. some THOUGHTLESS PEOPLE ON THIS VERY FORUM (;) ) posted it somewhere. Thats what drives me on. To read where that happens.

And confusedicated (hope you dont mind :p ) the que-hoosa sil-what-now? ;)

I am of the thought that no one should respond that that part in bold. Just a suggesting though...by all means do what you guys will.

que-hoosa sil-what-now?...hehehehehe
The Quenta Silmarillion. There are several sections in the book "The Silmarillion" 1)Ainulindale: That is the short part about the music of the Ainur...the next part is the 2)Valaquenta, that is where it tells about the Valar. Next is The Quenta Silmarillion, that is the story of the coming of the Elves and their battles with Morgoth. The section you are reading now...:D The next two secotions I'll let you figure out..;)

[Anamatar IV]

a dont understand that 1st part really. But if you mean i shouldnt have said that thoughtless thing i put a little :p after it. Doesnt that make things all better? :( :rolleyes:

But what about Allkabeth or whatever and that last chapter? Are those the same book or like the appendixes?

[Nenya Evenstar]

The Akallabeth is basically about the men of Numenor. It's not like an appendix at all (though the appedixes contain much valuable information) and is more like a little book. After The Akallabeth is a part about the Rings of Power. You should definitely read both.

The elves won at Mordor when they defeated Sauron.... and they won in the end too. :D

[gate7ole]

Since you are at Turin's chapter, you must know that the elves did actually win a few battles.
The 2rd battle, the battle under the stars, was a battle won, since they siezed Angband for more than 300 years. They had peace for a long period. Of course Feanor died in this battle, but we can't have everything.
Beren's battle was also won (in general).
There will be some more in a while.
Keep reading...

[Lord Aragorn]

You ask us a question, the tell us not to give you the answer... You shouldn't tempt us... But oh well, Read On!

[Ceorl]

What I think sums up your question very well without giving away too much is the final passage in the Silmarillion:
Here ends the SILMARILLION. If it has passed from the high and the beautiful to darkness and ruin, then that was of old the fate of Arda Marred; and if any change shall come and the marring be ammended, Manwe and Varda may know; but they have not revealed it, and it is not declared in the dooms of Mandos

Sums it up very well I think.

[Anamatar IV]

I cannot beleive it! I just finished the Quenta Silmarillion (i still need to finish Akellabeth or what not) and MORGOTH DIDNT DIE!!!! THAT IS NOT RIGHT!!! what happened to him? What happened to sauron too? Why didnt the valar find him when Angband was overthrown?

[Thorin]

Nope...Morgoth was banished from Arda into the void...Sauron escaped Valar detection and lived to fight another day....At the end, it has been prophecied that Turin and Morgoth will fight the last battle and Morgoth will be destroyed....

[Gothmog]

No Morgoth did not die. It is impossible for this to happen. Melkor (Morgoth) is in fact an Ainu who like the rest of the Valar and Maiar has chosen to be bound to Arda. But this only means that his power can only be used within Arda. He is still the same type of being that he was before he decended into the World and is not subject to death, not even the 'Minor' death of the Elves. There is nothing in or on Arda that can end his life, only Eru possesses that power and he will not use it.

That being the case all that can be done with Morgoth is to lock him in The Halls of Mandos or banish him to the Void. The Valar choose to banish him.

As for Sauron, when the Valar captured Morgoth they were not concerned with a Maia and did not try very hard to find him when he hid from them.

[Anamatar IV]

didnt turin die? How could they fight if he is dead?

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by Anamatar IV
didnt turin die? How could they fight if he is dead?

Turin indeed died,but at the Dagor Dagorath he would reappear to slay Melko (the concept of the Dagor Dagorath was abandoned by Tolkien later in his life I think).

And BTW,concerning Sauron :
He pleaded for mercy to Eönwë,the herald of Manwë.Eönwë couldn't pardon Sauron for his evil deeds,because they were peers (both Maiar) so he said Sauron must go to Valinor to receive judgement from the Valar.Sauron was too ashamed to do that so he just hid himself and returned to evil.

[Anamatar IV]

so that prophecy or the dagor da whats it isnt in my book? Too bad. I wouldve LOVED to read about that.

[Ithrynluin]

Yeah sorry about that,it's in one of the HOME books.you should get them if you really really wanna know. I think there's a thread somewhere around here,which provides you with all the quotes regarding the Dagor Dagorath.;)

[TheFool]

just wondering: I've seen a few posts that have 'Melko' instead of 'Melkor' - is this correct?

[gate7ole]

As for Sauron's escape, this is another misstep by the Valar. They just can't solve a problem thoroughly. I understand that they couldn't care about any Maia, but what about the strongest lieutenand of Melkor, a poerful Maia that caused two more wars the next two Ages? They just let him go away.

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by TheFool
just wondering: I've seen a few posts that have 'Melko' instead of 'Melkor' - is this correct?

Yes, "Melko" is correct as well,though less commonly used.

[The Tall Hobbit]

Here is a link to the Last Battle Thread that ithrynluin referred to:
http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4971

[Ceorl]

When it comes to Sauron, the Valar were only interested in Morgoth; however they left behind Eonwe to mop up the 'war criminals' so to speak. It is said that Sauron at first repented, and paid homage to Eonwe. However it was not within the power of Eonwe to forgive him or to constrain him. However he did command him to come to Valinor and there abide the judgement of the Valar. Sauron however feared bondage, since he had been a master over many during the days of Morgoth's reign, and refused to come to Aman. He hid in ME and there fell back into evil ways.

[Gil-Galad]

Sauron also hides himself so that for many years nobody see.He comes back when the Valar go back in Valinor and there's no any danger for him.

[Popqueen62]

I just started the Silmarillion. I bought it at Barnes and Nobles. Does anyone have any reccomendations on reading it. It's really confusing, but don't worry, I WON'T GIVE UP

[Anamatar IV]

book mark the index in the back and the map of beleriand. I FINISHED A FEW DAYS AGO!

[Popqueen62]

thank you, i keep going back into the index anyway

[Eliot]

I know what you mean. It IS hard to understand. I just started a couple weeks ago. I'm going sloooooow.

[Gil-Galad]

Read it very carefully.If you can't read it for second,third time,but try ot understand it!

[Popqueen62]

the thing is, atschool you getmarked off if the book takes longer than a month for you to read, and my teacher said "NO EXCEPTIONS" so i'm like dedicating all my time to it, because my older sister wants to read it for school in two weeks

[Anamatar IV]

you CANNOT read the book in a month and still comprehend it!!! You just cant!

[Popqueen62]

i know right? so i'm probably gonna have to buy my sister another copy for herself. the sad thing is, i've been at my grandparents house this weekend, and it's really boring, so i read, so i'm like 100 pages into it. but when i finish it, i'll probably read it again to keep everything straight.

[Anamatar IV]

ya know when i read it i skimmed over each chapter AFTER i finished it and I still dont understand half the stuff that goes on in this forum.

[Popqueen62]

yeah well, everything in there is a little confusing.It gets a little frustrating. My teacher made us all make goals. and my goal was to read all of j. r. r. tolkien's books by the time i'm 23 years old, which is pretty sad, because i probably wouldn't be able to do it cuz i'm so stupid

[Anamatar IV]

WOOHOO not a chance. Your 14 now, right? Well youre done with 4 books. Youve just started your 5th. But after this theres apparantly more than 6 volumes of 300 page books in the HOME series then a THICK book of UT. Then there are a whole bunch of other books written by tolkien outside of middle-earth...i could go on and on.

[Popqueen62]

actually, i've read six, but whose counting. Hey, i said it was a goal that i probably wouldn't achieve. Plus, what's the problem with trying? ever heard of it? jk.

[¤-Elessar-¤]

If you read it un-interrupted, and in long-spans, it should work out fairly well. I find it hardest to understand a book when you continually have to put it down, and break the train of thought. Try and go outside, find a tree or something (preferrably where no-one can find you) and read. It works really well...

[ravenbrand]

I read The Silmilarian pretty much solidly in about two weeks!Im still goin back to it every now and again and reading odd chapters to refresh my memory.

p.s i love elessar's little jimi hendrix signature pic its so cool!!
i want one.

[flame]

i found this book hard to get to grips with. i am 14 and i am waiting few more years to read it. does anyone talk in it.

[Ithrynluin]

Awwwwww....yet another new member who's having difficulties with the Sil...:D Just kidding.;)
If you are asking whether there is any dialogue in the book,yes there is -just be patient.Read the book very slowly,look up any words you do not completely understand and the index of names at the back is extremely helpful for the first reading especially(so you don't get lost with all the different names).
Good luck,and welcome!:)

[flame]

thaks. i signd up in aug then lost this play site put i just found it. yay.
this place rock like my broad

[Valinorean]

I had a hard time with the Sil at that age, too. It isn't really necessary to read it all in order, though! Feel free to skip to the good stuff, rather than lose interest altogether. I think you'll find that once you see how fascinating it is, you will be more motivated to dive into the hard parts.

[flame]

is it a good book then.

[Valinorean]

the best!

[LadyGaladriel]

Im reading the sim and I have bought a book 2a guide to tolkien" to help me with it.

But it seems pretty good so far and I haven't encountered any major promblems.

[flame]

what is better the trilogy of the lord of the ring or the sil.

[Ravenna]

They are both brilliant, but I suppose a lot depends on what you want from the book.
For something that can be read as a straightforward story, without having to delve into the deep and meaningful, (although, obviously that is part of the book), then LoTR is better.
But if you really want to find out more about Tolkiens Middle Earth and it's history, then the Sil is the best possible starting point.

[Anamatar IV]

very hard. I just finished it. It is hard to read but whats strange is that the entire time youre reading it youre constantely forgetting things but after you read it you remember like all of the details. There is some dialogue in there. I guess thats why theres no quoteable quote game for the sil :p

[Princess Vi]

I'm reading Silmarillion for the first time, but it's confusing me just a tad bit

[LadyGaladriel]

That happens to many people 9especially me) You have to keep on going with it though and look up anything you find confusing . theres always a TTF member who knows just a bit more about it than you.

[Princess Vi]

yeah, I know. I just finished with Melkor doing his music thingy and I am totally confused!

[LadyGaladriel]

Originally posted by vigoldenflower
yeah, I know. I just finished with Melkor doing his music thingy and I am totally confused!


The first bit you mean when Melkor is singing louder , I think it is?

[Celebthôl]

K this is l8 but it may help (im not moking tou inany way) but did you read the very beggining the chapters entitled...Ainulindale and ...Valaquenta coz these expalin the whole thing from the beggining and helps a lot well hope it helps and if not oh well!

Celeb

[Princess Vi]

actually i think it was Ainulindale that confused me

[Elfhelm25]

I borrowed the Sil from a friend about two months ago ....and was all set to dive into the book ...
However , after about nine or ten or the beginning pages I gave up and stowed it away .
For a little while .
After a short time , I took it out and started reading it by certain chapters .....much better way to get it started . The neat thing about the Sil is that it's not just one big story , it's a bunch of really good stories , so just leaf through , find one you like , and get started . I got hooked on Feanor and his creating of the Sils , then that got me into the whole departing of the Noldor , than into the Elvish wars going on , then on and on and suddenly Id gotten through the majority of the book and I am totally addicted . Reading it the second time was so much clearer , I kind of read through most of it front to back . If you are still having trouble , good hints to the best ch.( in my opinion )
Umm...well , i dont have the book here , so here goes memory ....
Anything having to do with Feanor and his sons
Anything having to do with Gondolin and Maeglin
Anything with Fingolfin
The Third age , The Numenoreans .....thats about it . Happy readings , and dont give up !!!!!!!!!!!:) :) :)

[Elfhelm25]

Hmm..I seem to have babbled quite a bit ...you'll find I do that sometimes ....dont mind me .

[YayGollum]

What about my hero, obvious Gollum hater? That has nothing to do with you not wanting people to help you when you act like you're confused! oh well. Anyways, Yay for babbling! Very fun! My favorite parts were the ones with Mim, Eol, and Ungoliant! :D Poor guys! Very misunderstood!

[Princess Vi]

never mind your stupid question. I'm very ****ed off right now, am running out of places to **** *** ******, don't mess with me, make me mad, or annoy me. warning: you are annoying me.

[Rasec]

I am 15, and I am reading the Sil now. I don't find it hard to read. There are in fact some words I do not know, but the rest is easy. =)

'Cesar.

[Grond]

vigoldenflower, if you have a question about the Silmarillion ask it. If you have a comment about the Silmarillion, say it. This is the book forum and idle chatter will not be allowed.

[Finduilas]

I'm 14 and I'm reading the Sil now ,too.
It's quite easy maybe because I had been told a lot about the book and I expected a lot.
The book is really great and everything about it said in this forum is true.
A friend (actually Gill-Galad)told me it would be really a big dificulty to read the Sil but I don't find it so hard.
If you try to read a bit more carefully everything's easy.:)

[flame]

well im 14 and ill try

[Samwise_hero]

i'm gradually getting there, it sure is confusing, i'm only 15, but i just can't stop reading it even if i have to read a section ten times before it is understandable.:p

[Eliot]

It helps to have a map of Beleriand with you while reading it, otherwise you will get pretty confused. Most versions of the book should have one in it.

[Eliot]

That's a pretty good map site. I had already had it bookmarked on my internet.

[Grond]

Smeagol, you have a wonderful site. Thanks for sharing it with us. :)

[Eliot]

I mean on my computer.

[gandalfthegrey]

hello

i just bought the book yesterday and i was wondering i have not finished the the lord of the rings set yet because doing school work is like all the time i have to do but i am grounded now lol and so i have time to read again so should i read the sil or should i read the set first i have already just got done with the hobbit what a adventure. and if you could tell me it would help alot.

thanks

[Grond]

I would read The Lord of the Rings first. Then read The Silmarillion. The LotR is a novel and flows more smoothly. The Silmarillion gives you the history behind the Lord of the Rings and the world of Middle-earth. You need to be grounded in the story before you get grounded in the history. :D;)

[Flame of Anor]

Also, to add to Gronds post, it will make more sense to read The Lord of the Rings Tillogy before you read the Silmarillion.

-Flame of Anor

[Eliot]

Just so you know, at first the Silmarillion is one of the most boring books in the world. I got so bored with reading it, I put it down almost a whole month. It might be hard, but it is so interesting.

If you have the time, try -not immediately- to read it again afterwards. You'll be able to understand it better the second time through. I plan on doing that myself. I'm still reading it for the first time. I'm almost done.

[Eliot]

I'm not stupid. I said it in the wrong way. I meant to say that when I first read it, the beginning was extremely boring. The rest of the book is great.

[gandalfthegrey]

well i have read the hobbit and i will start tomm. the lord of the rings i did start for a while but school work can be hecktic...

thanks
:D

[Gil-Galad]

Originally posted by Finduilas
I'm 14 and I'm reading the Sil now ,too.
It's quite easy maybe because I had been told a lot about the book and I expected a lot.
The book is really great and everything about it said in this forum is true.
A friend (actually Gill-Galad)told me it would be really a big dificulty to read the Sil but I don't find it so hard.
If you try to read a bit more carefully everything's easy.:)
Well you're reading the sil in your native language.Try reading it in Englsih and you'll see how difficult it is. ;)

[Gil-Galad]

Originally posted by Smeagol
... and it's mine :D

btw what do you mean with your internet?
Yeah,it's your precious;) ...and I really like it!!!do you have anything in mind if I bookmark it on my computer?:confused:

[Gil-Galad]

Originally posted by Smeagol
Of course you can bookmark the site
As long you don't download a section of it and sell it as your own... (I had that already) ;)
I guess how you felt then.Be sure I wouldn't do such thing,cause I had similar problems ,but with music.

[Gil-Galad]

Originally posted by Smeagol
You don't have to ask if you are allowed to bookmark his site.
A webmaster would not create a site if he didn't want folks to visit his site, bookmark it and return to it later on. That's the purpose of the internet, or is it not?
Yes,but I want to be polite ,cause you have done a great think and I appreciate it.:)

[Courtney]

Oh isn't it sweet! I am getting all teary-eyed! Be right back I have to find some tissues...:)