Gandalf's Business

[Nahar]

In The Hobbit, when Gandalf left the company of dwarves and Bilbo at the beggining of Mirkwood, what is the business he had to attend to? Ive looked this up, and cant find anything.

[Nóm]

The white counsil was driving the necromancer out of Mirkwood. He tells of this in The Lord of the Rings in the chapter "The Counsil of Elrond"

'Some here will remember that many years ago I myself dared to pass the doors of the Necromancer in Dol Guldur, and secretly explored his ways, and found thus that our fears were true: he was none other than Sauron, our Enemy of old, at length taking shape and power again. Some, too, will remember also that Saruman dissuaded us from open deeds against him, and for long we watched him only. Yet at last, as his shadow grew, Saruman yielded,and the Council put forth its strength and drove the evil out of Mirkwood and that was in the very year of the finding of this Ring: a strange chance,
if chance it was.
`But we were too late, as Elrond foresaw. Sauron also had watched us,
and had long prepared against our stroke, governing Mordor from afar through Minas Morgul, where his Nine servants dwelt, until all was ready. Then hegave way before us, but only feigned to flee, and soon after came to the Dark Tower and openly declared himself

PS: That is Gandalf speaking

[Popqueen62]

I was wondering that too, while i was reading it, he always seems to leave people in their adventures (sometimes at very inconvinient times).

[Anamatar IV]

stupid gandalf. He was just a few hundred miles away (probably less) when the dwarves were shooting alltheir arrows and dreaming about food yet he didnt help.

[Maeglin]

Yeah he definitely went to drive away sauron, but does anyone think that Saruman was still good at that time? And when Gandalf says "The White Council" I know that meant Radagast and Gandalf and Saruman, but does anyone know or think that the Blue Wizards were still around and helped with that?:confused:

[Popqueen62]

I'm not sure either. And i don't even remember who the blue wizards are. Anyone want to refresh my memory?

[Nóm]

Right off hand this is the only quote I can find which shows that it is beleived that Saruman was working for himself rather than the white counsil back when Sauron was driven from Mirkwood...

'Then, said Glorfindel, 'let us cast it into the deeps, and so make the lies of Saruman come true. For it is clear now that even at the Council his feet were already on a crooked path. He knew that the Ring was not lost forever, but wished us to think so; for he began to lust for it for himself. Yet oft in lies truth is hidden: in the Sea it would be safe.'

Council in this refers to The White Counsil's meeting, and not The Council of Elrond.

I do not know who all were members of this white counsil, Saruman was the head of it, Gandalf was part of it, Elrond, and Glorfindel appears to have been involved in it. Probably some other Rivendell Elves were in it as well. Perhaps Erestor for example.

[Maeglin]

Ooooh yeaaaa Glorfindel was in it!:D

[Mithlond]

Galadriel and Cirdan were also members of the White Council, and probably a few more of the chief Eldar that lived in M-e at the time.

About the Witch-King, perhaps Tolkien just liked the sound of it better than Warlock-King. I know i do. :)

[Maeglin]

Yeah witch-king sounds so much cooler and more intimidating for some reason.

[Anamatar IV]

heh. Wrong thread. maybe he is the king of witches. But continue it on the other thread.

[Mithlond]

Oops! The Witch-King isnt mentioned in this thread, hehe.
Damnit, i been reading too many posts, getting confused. :(

[Maeglin]

Originally posted by Mithlond
Oops! The Witch-King isnt mentioned in this thread, hehe.
Damnit, i been reading too many posts, getting confused. :(

Clearly you are getting confused.:D And you confused me too.

[Celebthôl]

K about 100 posts up (exaggerated) some one said was saruman still good! (i cant b bothered to read if anyone answered) no he wasnt he held off driving away sauron i.e the necromancer until it became apparent he was getting to close to getting the ring back so then saruman acted to late when sauron was stonger and his retreat was fake so no one got suspicious!
also not radagast or the blue wizards "pollando and atarni" i think were there name they left and went east and made up some sorta cult like a "we hate sauron cult!" so only Mithrandir succeded in his mission to distroy sauron.
hope it all helped.

Jiff

[Maeglin]

Radagast never went east, and he never started a cult:rolleyes:

[Celebthôl]

I didnt mean he went east n stuff he stopped being and istarí and lived in the wild

[Maeglin]

oh ok, well i guess u could say that, but u can't really stop being an istari, not voluntarily anyway, but yes he did decide not to embrace his powers and use them.;)

[Celebthôl]

yeah but i guess that his powers may have been taken away from his like sarumans except, because he never used them

[Maeglin]

yeah but Saruman's powers got taken away from him because he turned evil, radagast never did, so his powers were never taken away

[Celebthôl]

Yeah, but did this mean that he stopped going to the white council's council's?

[Maeglin]

I would assume that he stopped attending the council's because someone put up a quote in another thread saying that he forsook elves and men, so he really couldn't be bothered with Sauron, even though he did bring a message to Gandalf from Saruman concerning Sauron, so maybe he still cared a little.

[Mrs. Maggott]

As noted, Gandalf went south to meet with the White Council of which Saruman was the leader. The business with the orcs in the crossing of the Misty Mountains and the group's time with the eagles may have caused him to consider what was happening in Middle Earth at that time. Furthermore, I do not think he wished to enter Mirkwood because he did not want to attract the attention of the Necromancer in Dol Guldur which was located in the southern part of that great forest.

I also wonder if Gandalf was already speculating about Bilbo's unusual behavior (escaping from the orc den and apparently "sneaking unseen" into their gathering). He definitely had questions on the above and may have decided to see if there were anything else that might shed light on the matter. He does, however, mention his discomfort when he learns while in the South that the road through Mirkwood no longer ran completely through but ended in deadly marshes. I believe when he learned this, he turned around and began to head back to the group - although this must have been AFTER his meeting with Saruman and the rest of the Council. (Interestingly enough, the White Council included Galadriel and Elrond, neither of whom would have been physically included since they did not leave their respective homes. How then, did the "Council" meet? I don't really know.)

Indeed, I have always wondered why Gandalf bothered to get involved in the dwarf business at all even though Thorin had asked that he choose the fourteenth member (to avoid a group of thirteen which was considered unlucky). Might Gandalf have wished the attention of the powerful of Middle Earth to be attracted to what was going on in the Lonely Mountain with the dragon (always an eye-catcher) rather than take note of what HE was doing? :confused:

[Celebthôl]

Didn't radagast get sent later by varda to look after the trees and animals? coz in the sil she was worried for her trees coz men and dwarves would cut them down so manwe (i think) made the tree shepards and she got manwe to send radagast aswell but later on.

[Celebthôl]

But it says in the book somthing like the necromancer has been driven from mirkwood and it says gandalf was there at the council of the white wizards so ?i guess Radagast was there to? i also think that gandalf knew of this plan to attack the necromancer and so didnt get involved because he knew he would be away for a time.

[Maeglin]

Well if it actually says somewhere Council of White Wizards then Radagast was definitely involved, along with the two blue wizards. And you people that are saying Elrond and Galadriel were part of the council, how do you know? I never read that anywhere, so give me a quote and I'll believe it, otherwise I will stick to my thought that it was only wizards.

[Mithlond]

...and in that time was first made the Council of the Wise that is called the White Council, and therein were Elrond and Galadriel and Cirdan, and other lords of the Eldar, and with them were Mithrandir and Curunir. And Curunir (that was Saruman the White) was chosen to be their chief, for he had most studied the devices of Sauron of old.
From: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age.

There, is that evidance enough for you Glorfindel1187?

[Maeglin]

Yes it is, thank you, and may add that I am a fool for not remembering that quote from when I read it.:rolleyes:

[Brent]

Originally posted by Mrs. Maggott


Indeed, I have always wondered why Gandalf bothered to get involved in the dwarf business at all even though Thorin had asked that he choose the fourteenth member (to avoid a group of thirteen which was considered unlucky). Might Gandalf have wished the attention of the powerful of Middle Earth to be attracted to what was going on in the Lonely Mountain with the dragon (always an eye-catcher) rather than take note of what HE was doing? :confused:

Gandalf's "mission" was to contest the power of Sauron, he knew that smaug would ally with Sauron or at the very least aid him so he had to be removed - it was on his "to-do" list, I'm sure this is written of somewhere (appendix to LOTR ?? anyone ?) and he gives his reasons for the Quest.

To the other poster how do you know that Elrond (or galadriel for that matter she certainly got about) did not leave their respective homes to attend the council ?

[Mrs. Maggott]

Question: Do we know WHERE the White Council met? Might they not have met in different places at different times and might not Rivendell and/or Caras Galadon been places at which they met (which would negate the need for Elrond or Galadriel to leave their respective strongholds too often)? Might not Elrond have sent his sons as his emissary as he did after the Battle of the Pelannor with instructions as to his wishes in matters being discussed?

I don't know if any of this is mentioned anywhere, but I do know that Galadriel says that she wanted Gandalf as head of the Council but Saruman was chosen instead, so she at least, must have been a part of it. :rolleyes:

[Maeglin]

Actually I think Galadriel said that she chose Saruman for the head of the council but now regretted that decision and if she could have seen the evil that he was going to turn to would have made Gandalf the head of the council, I think it was something like that,but I'm not 100% sure.

[Elfarmari]

Originally posted by Popqueen62
I'm not sure either. And i don't even remember who the blue wizards are. Anyone want to refresh my memory?

check out this link (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=148669#post148669) It also has links to more threads which will probably tell you more than you could ever need to know. this one (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=148669#post148669) also has more info.