Treebeards face

[Talimon]

This is from the card game, which is ussually representative of the images in the movie. What do you think? Looks awesome in my opinion. Of course the way he is portrayed will depend on the script, but at least he's not laughable by the looks. More then I can say for Bakshi's attempt... :)

http://warofthering.net/specialnewspages/treebeardsface.shtml

[Talimon]

Originally posted by Confusticated
That is great. Better than I imagined. His voice will be important though. I have always imagined him having a voice like the voices sometimes used to represent the voice of god in movies and cartoons, I can not think of a specific example though. Kind of a deep, powerful voice that seems kind and patient.

I imagined his voice deep. In the book it's described as being deep, sounding like a wood-wind almost. The again I don't think "voice of god" would do. Treebeard is quite humorous, and so I don't think it should be too deep. And there definitely shouldn't be that annoying reverb they always put on god-voices. Bakshi did that, and it sounded horrible.

Just reading over it, and I love his first line. lol:

'Almost felt you liked the Forest! That's good! That's uncommonly kind of you,' said a strange voice. 'Turn round and let me have a look at your faces. I almost feel I dislike you both, but do not let us be hasty. Turn around!'

:)

[PRH]

Something tells me he'll end up sounding a little like Gimli..or maybe Sallah from "Raiders of the Lost Ark"...or possibly that professor from that show "Sliders."

[Treebeard]

hmmmmmmm...yes, i'd say that's about right. That's a pretty good portrait of me.

[Talimon]

Originally posted by PRH
Something tells me he'll end up sounding a little like Gimli..or maybe Sallah from "Raiders of the Lost Ark"...or possibly that professor from that show "Sliders."

I wonder why ;).

[Leto]

wow...I saw the pictures just in time. The first time I checked the link, I saw the pictures. The second time, a little while later, and the site said the pictures had been removed at the request on New Line cinema. He looks great, though...

[Ithrynluin]

Talimon,I tried to take a look at the link but they have removed the picture.:mad:
Anyway,I really liked Treebeard in Bakshi's film.Actually,I like almost everything in it.But then again, I saw it when I was 7 years old and it stuck in my mind.;)

[Talimon]

Don't get me started on that putrid piece of garbage. I pitty those whose vision of Tolkien was butchered by having seen Bakshi at such an early age. I can only hope that perhaps you can see Tolkien for being more then that. I litterally get queasy watching Bakshi's version. Don't get me wrong, it works at parts, but it's just not a good movie. That's just my opinion, of course, but I have a hard time seeing anyone really enjoying it. Don't rely on your rose-colored memories. Go see it again, right now, and compare it with PJ's movie. It's unbearable.

[Ithrynluin]

Your pity is not needed Talimon. I have had Bakshi's film on tape for 14 years now and I've seen it about a hundred times so far:eek: believe it or not! Despite the fact that I see some faults now, they just don't bother me. A person certainly views things differently at different ages. I do believe that if I saw it now for the first time,I wouldn't like it that much but I certainly would not hate it to such an extreme as you yourself exhibit.
Sorry but everyone has their opinions and tastes,and I could say that I pity you for admiring PJ's film that much...but I won't.

[Talimon]

All I'm saying is that if you saw Bakshi's movie when you were 7 years old your view on the tale was no doubt highly influenced by it. I assume you probably read the books at the age of 12, at the very earliest, and so you would have had 5 years watching Bakshi's movie and having his images in your mind.

Don't get me wrong: I also somewhat pity people who are young and are watching PJ's version before having read the book. But at least I feel that PJ's movie is much closer to Tolkiens feel, and much in the same vein. It doesn't reach the same hights, but it's on the same road. As such, even if your view on LotR was built on PJ"s movie, the books would just expand your view in the right direction. I seriously feel that Bakshi's movie completely rearranges the feel of Tolkiens tale. I don't know, personally I just hate that nostalgic, hippie-like culture that has surrounded LotR for so long. That's part of the reason I love PJ's movie so much: it's a fresh new interpretation, much more gritty, much more "real". It just seems to get to the essence of things, not tumble and twirl around it. Admitedly that "tumbling and twirling" is what gives the book a lot of it's charachter, but this is a movie, not a book.

[lilhobo]

harad, i mean Talimon, :)

How much of Bakshi's influence is in PJ's LOTR.....

[Talimon]

Originally posted by lilhobo
harad, i mean Talimon, :)

How much of Bakshi's influence is in PJ's LOTR.....

While I have no clue as to why you seem so intent on comparing me with harad (I won't mention that very high-class thread you started), I can only assume it comes out of a lack of self-confidence. From all the comparisons you draw between us I can only assume harad was a PJ-fan who made legitimate arguements defending the movie. If that's the case then I'm honored by the comparison. That still leaves me slightly confused as to why you get such a big kick out of pointing it out, however.

And if you want to talk then let's talk. I think there is something to that claim of yours (that Bakshi's visual style had some influence on PJ), but would like to see you point of specific examples before replying.

[lilhobo]

perhaps it would be more appropriate to reply to the delicious thread u started calling everyone who enjoyed Bakshi as being insane lol ;)

[PRH]

PJ's first experience with LOTR himself was Bashki. Thank goodness it didn't ruin his screw up his vision of Middle Earth, or did it?

Thankfully, almost entirely the answer seems to be 'no.'

A few exceptions (scene in PJ's FOTR influenced by Bashki):
1-The look of the first appearance of the Ringwraith leaning over the tree root searching out the hobbits.

2-The Ringwraith attack in the Pony (though this can be debated at length)

3-Death of Boromir - 3 arrow attacks before the orcs took him down.

[Talimon]

I've replied to the other comparisons in the other thread, but Boromirs death really isn't that similar. In fact, it's very undramatic in Bakshi's version. Just a quick few arrows, and bam!, Boromir is dead. It had none of the emotional impact PJ's scene did.

I remember reading in numerous places that PJ's first experience with LotR was through reading the book on a train/bus ride somwhere. I'm pretty sure it's in the movie guide.

[PRH]

Originally posted by Talimon
Boromirs death really isn't that similar. In fact, it's very undramatic in Bakshi's version. Just a quick few arrows, and bam!, Boromir is dead. It had none of the emotional impact PJ's scene did.
It didn't have the slow-mo and the music, but it did have the same idea of Boromir standing up to fight again twice after getting shot, driven to a rage to protect M&P. The exact manner in which Boromir received his mortally wounding arrows is not described in the book.

Originally posted by Talimon
I remember reading in numerous places that PJ's first experience with LotR was through reading the book on a train/bus ride somwhere. I'm pretty sure it's in the movie guide.
No. He saw Bashki first, which prompted him to read the books on the train.

[Talimon]

No. He saw Bashki first, which prompted him to read the books on the train.

Do you have a source for that? I'd be highly interested in knowing, besides the point. Not that it really proves much, though I suppose some of those images might have stuck.

[PRH]

I looked around quite a while, but couldn't find where I'd read that. It must've been one of these online interviews of PJ. There's been so many now...

I distinctly remember reading that PJ saw Bashki's version in the theater, which prompted him to read the books. You'll just have to take my word for it.

CAN I GET A WITNESS?!?

[Talimon]

While I'd be glad to take your word, I also distinctly remember him saying that he had read it with no previous knowledge on a train/bus ride somewhere. So maybe we'll just have to take eachothers word ;).

[PRH]

Your source is the Official Movie Guide which says:
"I first read and enjoyed The Lord of the Rings when I was about seventeen," recalls Jackson. "As an apprentice photolithographer, I had to travel from Wllington to Auckland for a six-week training course. It was a twelve-hour train journey, so I took a copy of The Lord of the Rings with me to pass the time."
I can certainly see why the movie guide wouldn't want to go in depth about Bashki, so Brian Sibley just glossed over it.

Jackson would be 17 between 10-31-78 and 10-31-78, so 'about 17' correlates quite closely with the time Bashki came out. Not a source, but certainly evidence.

Why would I make up or imagine anything this specific?

[Talimon]

I never claimed you made it up, all I'm saying is that I'd like to see a source. You don't have to rush it, you can PM me if you like. I'm not out to prove you wrong, indeed I'd be just as happy to learn that he saw Bakshi first. I just remember him saying otherwise, that's all.

You may have gotten this mixed up with one of the old AICN interviews, where he said that it would be a good start if his movies were better then Bakshi's. So I know he saw it. I just got the impression it was many years after reading the book. Also, consider that Bakshi's movie probably never showed in theatres in New Zealand, and if it did it showed a long time after. I assume he wouldn't have just seen it, especially not having read the book.

[Jorg]

Pic of tree beard (http://www.filmweb.no/oslokino/ringenesherre/readnews.asp?id=7&sec=8) -Norwegian page.

[PRH]

Well Talimon, I know I'm remembering clearly but I will keep a watch for that original story. Of course if I ever do find it I'll be sure to post it right here in this thread and taste the sweet nectar of vindication!

I also remember the story you just refered to; PJ hoping his flick at least best's RB's. He certainly accomplished that!

[Ariana Undomiel]

GO TO THE LINK from Jorg. It is sooooooooooooooooooooo cool!

~Ariana

[PRH]

Dearest Talimon -- You mentioned elsewhere listening to the commentary of FOTR EE. If you happened to be listening to the PJ/FW/PB track at the time of Bilbo's birthday speech you would have your proof that PJ's first exposure to LOTR was Bakshi.

[Talimon]

Yup, I heard it :).

[Radagast]

Does it really matter whether he saw Bakshi first or read the books first??? It's still obvious that he was influenced in some definite scenes by the Bakshi version. While the first two scenes given as examples were definitely copied close to Bakshi, I can't go along with the 'Death of Boromir'. This is the one scene in which contrary to Talimon (what a surprise) I really believe not only is Bakshi's version of Boromir's death more dramatic, but more acurate to the book. PJ took extreme liberties with how the fellowship ends, and this led to a confused and not very heroic or lonely stand for Boromir. Pj had to throw in Aragorn to the rescue, albeit too late (after abandoning Frodo, and sending him off to Mordor alone not knowing Sam was to be with him) , thus again stealing the heroism of one charater(Boromir) and giving it to another (Aragorn).

But Talimon, please give those of us who appreciate Tolkien (and in some scenes Bakshi) more than PJ a little more of a break.

Cheers

[Fimbrethil]

I always found the scene in the Prancing Pony, where you first see Strider with his feet up, and with a pipe, pointed at by frodo, and talk about by barliman, pretty similar.

Spookily so :D I think it was more of a case that overall, Bakashi' version was ****, but he had the occasional 'spark' of inspiration. I for one found the depiction of the Nazgul quite spooky :D, and it had more humour in it. Especially smeagols 'sneakin'!' scene. It makes me smile everytime.

Tis VERY hard to watch the thing now I have the FOTR:EE though :( Pity, it holds some good childhood memories for me, much like Flight of Dragons, Dark Crystal, Watership Down and Labyrinth, tis just one of my fav kids movies, and even my adult perception of the books has nothing to do with my enjoyment of the Bakashi film.

On fact, the more I try to forget that it is a Tolkien inspired movie, the more I enjoy it :D

[Talimon]

But Talimon, please give those of us who appreciate Tolkien (and in some scenes Bakshi) more than PJ a little more of a break.

You are fully encouraged and have my blessing and shared opinion regarding Tolkien. I wouldn't be here if I didn't think Tolkien was a god. However, I have to strongly differ on Bakshi. As Fimbrethil honestly mentions, there are very, very few occasions in Bakshi's movie where things work. Not according to the book, but according to itself. The movie, as a movie, is in my opinion horrible and makes absolutely no sense. I think PJ was inspired in a few occasions by Bakshi, but I believe these were all minor visual cues, and he improved them all immensely.

As for Boromirs death, say what you will. Even if it was closer to the book in details, I don't believe it was closer in spirit. But more importantly is the fact that it's simply not a dramatic or emotional scene, something PJ's scene is. We feel little to no sympathy with Boromir (or for that matter any of the charachters) in Bakshi's film. I don't care how true or untrue you get, that in my opinion is essential. I am honestly surprised at anyone who would take a true but bad movie to a less true but superior movie. To me, it comes as a given that the first priority when making a movie is to make a good movie. The change of Boromirs death was purely for that reason.

[Radagast]

Talimon

I'll agree with you about overall Bakshi's version being quite screwy in places and not flowing particularly well, but even if one says that pj's scene of the death of boromir is more "dramatic " than Bakshi's, I would say the pj's is melo-dramatic. It was quite sappy and a let down from the book in my opinion.

But even though Bakshi's film crashes and burns in many places, where it does capture where it does come together it is very well. Well enough for pj to copy it. I don't see why that wouldn't be a bother for pj. Here he is saying that he got tired of sticking to the book and then he goes copying Bakshi (another director) of all people.

Like I stated before, he may have had great costumes and scenery, but he might have well as made "The Lord of the Flies", and people would have said it was great and that he got 80% of the title right.

Cheers