Tom Bombadil, Who is he?

[Strider]

Just a bit of a question, which i think may lead to a long discussion, but i hope it'll work.
here goes!


Tom Bombadil, The dark spider, Unogliant, the void, the creator.
how were they made? where did they come from? what power does Tom Bombadil have? what of his wife? (her name escapes me at this moment)
what power does she have?

and the toughest of all-
how did the entire creation of the world begin?
through music and magic, many will say, and yes, i have read the silmarillion, but HOW was it made? with nothing there before, then something? why is there something of a void? a void is nothing, correct? then why exist? and if the void is not truly a void, perchance a creator of all created unogliant? remember, she overpowered a valarian himself...

[The Mormegil]

Strider, see my post in The lord of the Rings section. Questions were asked there about who is older, Ents or Tom. I should have posted here as well as it really is a history topic. :)

[Greymantle]

We've had several separate threads on this within the last week alone.

[The Mormegil]

The music of the Ainur, I believe, literally is Genesis in the Tolkien world. (the creation from nothingness). I have not been able to find much on this matter. But then what do we know of how our creator brought things into existence? You could get real "deep" with this one. I'm not sure I'm ready to go there.....yet. But I figure Eru had a desire to create, so he did. You don't question a god's intentions now do you? :D The Vala and Maia spirits were either the creation of the One or in some regard part of the One. It' just that you had one Vala spirit decide to try and do things his way (Melkor) and he obviously had a following,(corrupted spirits which came to be balrogs, Ungoliant etc). Ahhh, 'Melkor doing it his way', that would presuppose he was a separate entity from Eru with a will of his own. He wouldn't be part of Eru in that context but a creation of Eru. Tom Bombadil was a Maia spririt as was his wife Goldberry.

:) :D :confused: :( :eek:

[Greymantle]

Where have you seen a single iota of evidence that either of them are Maiar?

[The Mormegil]

If Tolkien were alive today, I'd love to pick his brain on how he developed his ideas on the "creation" of Arda. You have to figure it was a take on basic Christian beliefs in the Book of Genesis and the creation of man. Tolkien was a Christian and that influence is very evident in his writings.

[GaladrielQueen]

Like, omg, Stride... That is one LONG question.
I think that Tom Bombadil is a keeper? (I need to read the damn book again :p) And Uh, of his wife, I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS HIS WIFE AT FIRST! :eek: I'm a slow thinker sometime So suuuuuue me! :p

Heh, I think Tom is nuts :p That's all i can say :p :D

GQ

[Strider]

yeah, i wish too, but isn't his son, christopher alive? maybe tolkien told chris why, and he could explain the things? besides, my question remains, where did the void come from? here is the toughest one i can think of, and yes, it does seem like eru used genesis music to create the universe. his little creations, the valar, made their music, which made harmony, which created earth, then melkor inturrupted it, adding discord, thus making earth not perfect, then eru repelled melkor, thus making it possible to repair chaos, wherever it goes.
whaddya think?

[Telchar]

Eru didn't repell Melcor, the Valar did.. Melkor was not evil from the beginning, he became corrupted because he wanted to rule the world. Even if it sounds strange the discord of Melcor was a part in the creation of Ea. And elements of the discord of Melkor will be in the Arda Healed after Arda Marred is destroyd.. (IIRC)

[Strider]

nonono, remember the two tunes of eru illuvatar? actually three, one, the valarian music, two, the elven music, three, the brute force, the human, mortal music, the flat tone. that was when the world was being created, that's what meant, sorry if you misunderstood...

[GaladrielQueen]

Ya lost me at Eru thing lol:o

[Strider]

eru is god, in a way, in the lotr sereis, haven't you read the silmarillion?

[Greymantle]

The Void was simply what existed before there was anything else. A void is a lack of anything. Nothing created the Void, because I void is nothing.

Strider, you of all people have absolutely no right to ridicule someone about their Tolkien knowledge.

As I see it, all of the music of the Ainur (not just the Valar; the Valar did not exist as such until the actual creation of Arda) was part of the creation of the earth, including the discord of Melkor. I don't have my Sil right here, but as far as I can remember, there were three melodies of Iluvatar, sung by the Ainur. The second was made to fight the discord of Melkor, while the third (the Elves) tried to overcome it, not through battle, but through its very beauty and strength.

[Thorondor]

Yes, very precise Grey. Also Melkor first became corrupted when before the music, when he saught in the void the Flame Imperishable, which was with Eru. He wanted to create for his own, not with Iluvatar.

[Talierin]

I think the Void was space beyond the solar system. I can't exactly remember why I think that though...will have to find evidence tomorrow...

[Strider]

i was not ridiculing gq, man! though, the music of eru has a purpose, though it not be known right away. what do you think the intense, flat, strong, yet short lived musical tone stood for? all those that think men, raise your hands now, please, because that is what i believe to be the human race, strong, powerful, unbearable to others not human, yet short lived.

[Greymantle]

I believe you're referring to the second theme of Iluvatar, not the third. Though I don't have my Sil with me.
It's certainly possible that this was the creation of Men. I don't think we're ever told directly how themes/creations are related in any case except for the creation of the Elves and the third theme. Does anyone know otherwise?

[Beren Erchanion]

Tom Bombadil and goldenberry are Maïar because only maïar were able to use magic. Ok ok I already ear people screaming but« Galadriel and Elrond? » for those: don't forget Elrond's great grand mother was Melian and she also teach Galadriel very well, and the mages are Maïar who can die like human and cannot use all of their power. and for all the creature that was already on Ëa most of them are child of the first music but the evil ones like balrogs and Ungoliant are child of the Melkor «musical rebellion» when he began to sign his own tune whit the help of most of the Ainur and it goes so big that even Eru was angry against this ainur that first was his favorite.

[Greymantle]

Ain't that the truth! We need the Elves back, eh?

[DGoeij]

Tom for president! But he'd probably forget he was anyway. Gandalf named him a moss-gatherer once.
You guys are right about the elves though. We could do with some honest and wise minds to talk some sense in the world.

[Lord_Dracona]

Now, I'm lost, and I wnt to achieve some of the success Tolkien did! First of all, someone tell me what the other books are about. I haven't gotten much money recently, so I haven't gotten the stuff, but as a little info., I believe all of his notes are listed in The Sil., A Middle-Earth atlas I saw somewhere, and all of THe Lost Tales. Hey, as a little side note, somebody send me some inf. on those books if you read them, and tell me briefly what there about. My email is sweet_rod2@yahoo.com. I need to find some other way to enter Tolkien's head than just rereading his books over and over.

New contest, who can tell me throgh a pm what Tolkien's FULL name is, and answer the following Questions most like it would be read BY TOLKIEN!!!

1 which is shorter, dwarves or hobbits?
2 did Tolkien ever visit america?
3 what is Strider's REAL name, and what is his title?

Remeber, only Lord Dracona can rule the elemental dragons of the world, and use them to make happiness on Earth(Dracona is an Elf, and of high Elven Decent! It would be good if we had him to council us all. pm me if you want Dracona's personel advice.

[Strider]

jeez, talk about egos, lord of flies, i was on a vacation, so, whazz up ever here? i finiched the second book of the HOME, so now i gotta buy the 3rd and 4th combo.

[King-Under-Mt.]

I think Tom Bombadil is a Maia, or maybe a Vala that came to middle-earth. Maybe he's even Manve himself, and his wife Goldberry is Varda. Or maybe Tom is Mandos. Or even Tulkas.

[Dain Ironfoot]

I think that the world was created buy eru's dreams.

[Strider]

first off, it's spelt by, not buy, and second off, that is what tom bombadil may be, eru illuvatar, the creator, only in physical form. though, one also has to consider what he said, not being able to use his power beyond the forest, now that's interesting, especially when you remember eru has a somewhat dislike for melkor, and would probably do everything he could to destroy him. something to think about ;)

[Jinshü]

What a mofo this PC is!!!!! :p

[Jinshü]

WooPsiE! Wrong PostBoard! *embarrassed* Let me go and die. :o

[Cian]

Originally posted by Strider
... and second off, that is what tom bombadil may be, eru illuvatar, the creator, only in physical form. though, one also has to consider what he said, not being able to use his power beyond the forest, now that's interesting, especially when you remember eru has a somewhat dislike for melkor, and would probably do everything he could to destroy him ...

Regarding the One (Ilúvatar):

"The One does not physically inhabit any part of Eä." JRRT

[Strider]

very true, in the silmarillion, but you have to remember, tom bombadil contained such power, that not even the maia contained, so, if not eru, then valarian?

by the way, if you're so concerned about typos, go and talk to only adult posts, not with all these ages mixed up. if you think we'll all use spellcheck and do all that extra work when we can only use the computer for 30 minutes, forget it. i don't care wether we type wrong or not, just if it's spelt right. capitals don't matter, unless in relation to the following:
HoME
Silmarillion
J.R.R.Tolkien
or in any relation to a name.

[DGoeij]

Als ik gewoon in het Nederlands tiep maakt het geen ene moer uit of ik spelfouten maak. Valt de 90% die dit totaal niet kan lezen toch niet op. HA.

[Greymantle]

Originally posted by Strider

capitals don't matter, unless in relation to the following:
HoME
Silmarillion
J.R.R.Tolkien
or in any relation to a name.
Is that so. Let me quote from the same post.
very true, in the silmarillion, but you have to remember, tom bombadil contained such power, that not even the maia contained, so, if not eru, then valarian?
Not that I especially care.

[DGoeij]

Daarom, zeur niet zo ontzettend over een spelfout hier of daar. Tiepen in een andere taal is al lastig genoeg zonder te gaan muggenziften. Humor eigenlijk dat de meesten dit nooooit zullen begrijpen.

or shall I continue in english, with typing errors? Since I guess that to actually make myself clear I'd better use errored english than correct Dutch.:mad:

[Ståle]

I always thought Tom was one of the Valar(more specifically, Aüle the Smith). I sincerely doubt he [Tom] beeing a Maia, as the Ring had no power over him(Gandalf was a Maia, and he was terrified of even touching the Ring, lest alone wear it), he sees the one who wears it(again, he probably saw the spirit world of the Nazgul, meaning he had great powers), and he can make it dissapear.

Yes. :D