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flame
11-14-2002, 09:26 PM
is there a rank for a wizard that is black , like gandalf the gery, like that.

Anamatar IV
11-14-2002, 09:30 PM
no. There were only five istari on middle earth:

White: Sarumen/Gandalf
Grey: Gandalf
Brown: Radagst
Blue: Pollando and alatar.

flame
11-15-2002, 04:45 PM
thaks you.

Maeglin
11-16-2002, 04:09 AM
Well I guess you could call Sauron "The Black", but he was never called that, so it doesn't matter.

Lantarion
11-16-2002, 11:54 AM
The colourizations that occur in Tolkien's world are meant only to rank the Istari in order of power and aura. As the colour black is almost always a colour of 'evil' or terror or the like, I don't think any Istar would use that pseudonym, as they were all good guys (except Saruman, but he was good before he flipped out). :)

Walter
11-16-2002, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by Anamatar IV
no. There were only five istari on middle earth:

White: Sarumen/Gandalf
Grey: Gandalf
Brown: Radagst
Blue: Pollando and alatar.

It is correct that (originally) Saruman was the white, Gandalf the grey and Radagast the brown wizard. However I would like to mention that Tolkien AFAIK did not make a final decision about the names of the "Blue Wizards" (Alatar and Pallando or Morinehtar and Rómestámo [or Róme(n)star] were only names Christopher found on some rapid jottings (partly illegible) of his father). (c.f. What are the names of the Blue Wizards? (http://www.tolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?FAQ/What__are__the__names__of__the__BlueWizards))

----
And the names of the "Black Wizards" - if there were any - could be Jake and Elwood... (or should that say "Black Blues Wizards"?) ;)

flame
11-16-2002, 02:15 PM
why is there five wizaerd if two dont have names. :confused:

Anamatar IV
11-16-2002, 02:48 PM
because 2 of them were hardly ever mentioned.

Sauron coulve been called the black wizard if he was one of the five. He was just a maia. If he was not an istari, he was not a wizard/

Glomund
12-13-2002, 07:00 PM
Gandalf himself ranks (sort of) the colors. After he comes back and meets Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas he says, "I am Gandalf, Gandalf the White, but black is mightier still.

Beruthiel
12-17-2002, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by Glomund
Gandalf himself ranks (sort of) the colors. After he comes back and meets Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas he says, "I am Gandalf, Gandalf the White, but black is mightier still.

No, he was talking about its ability to resist stains. Tee hee...

HLGStrider
12-17-2002, 08:49 PM
Just posting in appriciation of the Jake and Elwood joke...

"We're on a mission... from Illuvatar."

Maeglin
12-17-2002, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by Walter
It is correct that (originally) Saruman was the white, Gandalf the grey and Radagast the brown wizard. However I would like to mention that Tolkien AFAIK did not make a final decision about the names of the "Blue Wizards" (Alatar and Pallando or Morinehtar and Rómestámo [or Róme(n)star] were only names Christopher found on some rapid jottings (partly illegible) of his father). ----
And the names of the "Black Wizards" - if there were any - could be Jake and Elwood... (or should that say "Black Blues Wizards"?) ;)

Well actually there were more than 5 of them total: From Unfinished Tales: The Istari
Of this order the number is unknown ; but of those that came to the North of Middle-Earth, where there was most hope (because of the remnant of the Dunedain and the Eldar that abode there) the chiefs were five.

That is referring to the entire Heren Istarion (order of wizards). But anyway, I doubt that any of the unknown ones had the color black, who knows if they were even ranked by color.

Walter
12-17-2002, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Glorfindel1187
Well actually there were more than 5 of them total: From Unfinished Tales: The Istari

That is referring to the entire Heren Istarion (order of wizards). But anyway, I doubt that any of the unknown ones had the color black, who knows if they were even ranked by color. I didn't say there were only 5 anywhere in my post, now did I? ;)

But when you've read the chapter about the Istari in UT you know almost everything there is to know about them, there are only a few pieces of information left out, most of which is covered in HoMe12, a small chapter named "The Five Wizards" where Christopher provides us with some additional information about them.

----
Oh and, the part of the black wizards was a joke as some may have noticed (and which has it's roots in another thread about the Istari)...

...well, unless I overlooked something, where Tolkien actually mentioned Jake and Elwood... ;)

Maeglin
12-17-2002, 11:13 PM
ha ha no I don't think Tolkien ever mentioned them, I read that joke in the other thread too. Oooh ooh I have an idea! make an RPG with Jake and Elwood as Istari!:D

HLGStrider
12-18-2002, 09:12 PM
That's an RP I'd like to join... Can I be the girl friend with the Machine gun? I'm almost as short as Carrie Fischer and I know all of her lines from Star Wars!

mr underhill
12-21-2002, 10:41 AM
lol at the blues wizards..