What are you [Archive] - THE TOLKIEN FORUM

Ciryaher

11-22-2002, 08:19 PM

I have always been interested in socialism as an economic system, and the republic as a governmental system. My environmental and social beliefs cause me to lean to the left-end of the spectrum, while my belief in personal freedoms (such as speech and guns) lean to the right-end of the political spectrum.

Dr. Ransom

12-03-2002, 09:28 AM

Interesting Ciryaher, you always had me a bit confused sometimes. lol

And as for me, I guess I have to confess that I'm a huge Larah Ingrim fan.

Húrin Thalion

12-03-2002, 07:14 PM

Sorry but who is Larah Ingrim?

Myself I am a socialist standing to the left of most socialists as you might have noticed.

Húrin Thalion

Asha'man

12-08-2002, 09:08 AM

I thought you described yourself as a Communist, Elen?

I regard myself as pretty ultra-conservative on most issues, and moderate-leaning-right on the rest.

Ash

Tar-Elenion

12-08-2002, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by Húrin Thalion
Sorry but who is Larah Ingrim?

He probably means Laura Ingraham.
http://www.lauraingraham.com/public/

Húrin Thalion

12-08-2002, 10:54 PM

Oh I do define myself as a communist when because it is a shorter and more common term. Unfortunately Mccharty (spelling) and his folks have given the name a bad reputation so I use socialist.

And Ciryaher, who says that freedom of speech is only a right thing?

Húrin Thalion

PS checked up Ingraham, haven't recovered yet ;)

PPS Ash I do not know what to say about your signature, where did you get that ****?

Zale

12-08-2002, 11:20 PM

I'm a social anarchist, which means that the best form of government is as close to no government as possible. All ministers should have another job for stable income (so they don't live off our taxes) and be selected for governing for their skills. There would of course be no royals (waste of space). There would be a leading party in power, not just an individual from that party, and general elections would be held every 3 years (something like that). Everything possible should be done to avoid any risk of tyranny (e.g. Hitler or Stalin, both left- and right-wing tyrants).

Ciryaher

12-08-2002, 11:39 PM

I was not saying that it was only a "right" thing, but according to the left-right system, the right believes in little government interference with people's lives (i.e. personal freedoms) and the left believes in using the government to bring about social change (i.e. censorship).

Asha'man

12-09-2002, 12:17 AM

Originally posted by Húrin Thalion

PPS Ash I do not know what to say about your signature, where did you get that ****?

I take it you disagree? :D I would love to see you attempt to debunk the logic found in my signature. I believe you owe it to me after calling it ****. :rolleyes:

Ash

Anamatar IV

12-09-2002, 12:24 AM

I am the jack-___ (donkey;)[democrat])

Tar-Elenion

12-09-2002, 02:32 AM

Originally posted by Zale
Everything possible should be done to avoid any risk of tyranny (e.g. Hitler or Stalin, both left- and right-wing tyrants).
Hitler was not a _right-wing_ tyrant.

Tar-Elenion

12-09-2002, 02:37 AM

Originally posted by Húrin Thalion
Oh I do define myself as a communist when because it is a shorter and more common term. Unfortunately Mccharty (spelling) and his folks have given the name a bad reputation so I use socialist.
McCarthy. And the bad reputation comes not from 'McCarthy and his folks' but rather from communists and their folks (witness Mao, Stalin etc.).

Arvedui

12-09-2002, 07:12 AM

I believe in liberalism.

Not what most US republicans call 'liberals', but the original liberalism.

And I second Tar-Elenion's previous post, and throw Pol-Pot in there just as well. Now, what do these three have in common? Slaughtering their own people.... what a great way to run politics.:mad:

Dáin Ironfoot I

12-16-2002, 02:14 AM

I myself am a socialist but maybe thats because my family is French...:D Anyway, since I am in the US now, I would go more with the Democrats.

Húrin Thalion

12-21-2002, 09:03 PM

I take it you disagree? I would love to see you attempt to debunk the logic found in my signature. I believe you owe it to me after calling it ****.

Nah I just wondered, I thought it not so correct since the disarming of the citizens is not a step towards dictatorship but a step taken by the public to diminish the risks of shootings and related injuries. This is why I think that it is in many ways incorrect and I still wonder, where did you get it?

Húrin Thalion

FREEDOM!

12-22-2002, 01:52 AM

I am a Conservative, but i can't vote...yet!:D :D ;) :rolleyes:

Actually his sig is correct, gun control means hitting your target.

Asha'man

12-22-2002, 07:01 AM

Originally posted by Húrin Thalion
Nah I just wondered, I thought it not so correct since the disarming of the citizens is not a step towards dictatorship but a step taken by the public to diminish the risks of shootings and related injuries. This is why I think that it is in many ways incorrect and I still wonder, where did you get it?

Do you disagree that if a government was even thinking about taking over completely, the last things they would want in the hands of the citizens would be guns? Happened in Russia in the 'teens - they disarmed all the citizens and then took over, and all the people could do was fight with pitchforks. :rolleyes: If you mean it will reduce the risk of shooting accidents between innocent parties (I mean, no gang or criminal activity), then you're wrong. Better gun education is what is needed. How else do you explain the fact that there was much more open gun use, and by younger people, up until about the mid-'60s, but no school massacres, and very few gun accidents? They were more responsible and knew what they were doing.

If you want to get a new thread started, or take this to PM's, let me know. :)

Ash

Húrin Thalion

12-22-2002, 11:21 AM

This is enough interesting for a new thread, you start it Ash!

Húrin Thalion

Rogue666666

12-23-2002, 06:31 AM

Exactly. McCarthy didn't give communism a bad name. Stalin gave communism a bad name. And for you people who believe in "social reform" through the government. Well, thats what Stalin called it as he forced millions of Russians into starvation. And don't tell me that socialism is "different then communism" I lived in Holland, a socialist nation, for eight years, and over that period of time, laws were past and the government took more and more and more control over the people. Eventually this process will lead to communism, and communism as we've seen, DOES NOT WORK.

Húrin Thalion

12-23-2002, 10:21 AM

You think? Firstly I would like to say that the ordinary communist does not think that the Soviet Union was a communist country, only people who haven't studied it think so. As for Mccarthy, what he did was to give all communists a bad name, The Soviet union, China and Vietnam were all dictatorships, and not socialist in any way. And I must say that if you think that Holland is going to develop into a "communist" state through Socialism you are wrong. In Sweden we have very many and strict laws, almost uninteruppted (and we saw how it went when the right took over for four years, the crown's worth fell to nothing, bank crisis, ecconomic crisis, no economic growth and large foreign debts) Socialism since 1918 and we are not under dictatorship. It is a large difference between that and Socialism, you seem to have got something mixed up Rouge666. And who says that communism won't work? Has there been any serious democratic attempts?

(I like the new TTF colour)

Húrin Thalion

Rogue666666

12-23-2002, 01:56 PM

Have their been any democratic attempts? How can you make a democratic attempt at communism? And, socialism is like to communism because of the huge , or in communisms case, total control the government has over the people. You don't live in a communist country. You should try living in China, a 'communist country' for fifty years and see how you like it? I can gurantee you woudn't enjoy it. I have been to Sweden, and I have been to China, the difference is incredible. So what is this "true communism"? A place were everyone works together for the greater good? As we all know, EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BIENG IS CORRUPTABLE, so how would that possibly work?

P.S, most Americans luagh about Mcarthy these days, so you can stop using him as an example.

Húrin Thalion

12-23-2002, 02:49 PM

In what way have I used Mccarthy as an example? You will just have to read what I have written again and think it over carefully. I was not attacking the U.S.A. in any way when talking about that matter (but only the one that is touched knows an insult, embarassing part of your history?). Also Mccarthy is no laughing matter, those who laugh at the purges are wrong to do so. You seem to have missed my point entirely Rogue666, maybe you are a little to rash when answering to arguments?

And I do not know how many times I have said this, China is not a communist country. for obvious reasons. I said this in my last post in this very thread and you seem to have completely ignored it, go back and read that one again. And if all human beings are corruptable (which they are) who will corrupt us? Money? Greed? People who don't like the system? And what makes you call communism non democratic? I don't see your point either Rogue666. Communism can be as democatic as anything else but I think that we'll better move discussion to the thread communism. So, you have been to Sweden and China, good then you have seen the difference between dictatorship and democratic socialism. Also have you lived in China/Sweden? If not, you should (using your own words) "try" and do that.

Húrin Thalion

FREEDOM!

12-23-2002, 07:05 PM

Actually, China is a communist country

Húrin Thalion

12-23-2002, 07:37 PM

That depends on what you think that communism is, to me it is not. Could we please move this to the thread communism?

Húrin Thalion

Rogue666666

12-25-2002, 05:47 PM

NO , I DON'T WHANT TO MOVE THIS THREAD TO COMMUNISM. Perhaps your just to stuck in your beliefs to even consider that some one else may be correct. You continue to deny every example we've given of what we all believe to be communism. So then what is communism? Please explain just HOW communism, with a single ruler, and no voting or free choice of the people could possibly be democratic. What is TRUE Commmunism???

FREEDOM!

12-26-2002, 06:11 PM

Actually, my sister took a government class like 2 years ago but she was talking to me and she said that in her book they said that no country can ever be truly communistic.

Aragorns_girl00

12-28-2002, 12:24 AM

i don't know what you mean

Húrin Thalion

12-28-2002, 12:41 AM

faila

12-28-2002, 03:32 AM

I believe in an extremely small government. I believe in no social programs at all, for any hurt free enterprise. But im against mercantilism as well (governemnt helping out individualbusiness) I can not be the american republican party for it supports comercial welfare and i can not be libertarian party for it supports abortion. SO i do not know what i am. Just that i think that the articles of confederacy would of worked (the original constitution to the united state of america)

Manwe

01-13-2003, 12:25 AM

i would describe myself as left of centre although not all of my beliefes could be put under that banner.

FREEDOM!

01-16-2003, 06:36 PM

Well, i'm a Christian, a Conservative, and an American!:D

HLGStrider

01-20-2003, 07:30 AM

I call myself a Republican/Libertarian crossbreed... or a pro-life libertarian... There was another party I'd never heard of until looking through a voters guide this year for state ellections. Someone was running for a judge position calling himself a member of a Constitutional party... which sounded a lot like what I am, but I'd never heard of it before, and I don't know much about it.

Also there was Richard Maybury's suggestion for a party called Juris Naturalist... or something like that, which was also very similar.

I believe in a small government designed only for defense.

PS
I used to have a poll entitled this, but I think it got eaten somehow... It had almost all the options mentioned... though I only originally put like four.

faila

01-20-2003, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by HLGStrider
I call myself a Republican/Libertarian crossbreed... or a pro-life libertarian... There was another party I'd never heard of until looking through a voters guide this year for state ellections. Someone was running for a judge position calling himself a member of a Constitutional party... which sounded a lot like what I am, but I'd never heard of it before, and I don't know much about it.

Also there was Richard Maybury's suggestion for a party called Juris Naturalist... or something like that, which was also very similar.

I believe in a small government designed only for defense.

PS
I used to have a poll entitled this, but I think it got eaten somehow... It had almost all the options mentioned... though I only originally put like four. The constitutional party is extremel small. I wouldconsider myself one except for that fact. Aconstitutionalist is a pro-life libertarian and also is against homosexual marriages.... things of the nature. I would of probobly said I was one, but i didnt think any one would know what they are.

HLGStrider

01-21-2003, 08:00 PM

I definately didn't until just this fall, and there was only one guy running under that... and we have a whole lot of minority parties in this state... the largest being Libertarian (we had a three party election for Gov. I don't think Cox had a chance (the Libertarian), but he ran and apparently got votes).

FoolOfATook

01-22-2003, 11:44 AM

On social and economic issues- hell, almost all domestic issues I'm very liberal- I voted for Nader in 2000 and I'm a member in relatively good standing of the local Green Party chapter. The place where I differ the most from most of my ideological brethren is in foreign policy, particularily in terms of the role of the military. I'm a strong believer in ideas like collective security, and the use of military force to protect human rights or to oust dictators. For example, I never wavered in my support of last October's war in Afghanistan, nor in the U.S. action in Kosovo. I used to be a committed pacifist, but something happened fairly recently that convinced me of the inherent necessity for a nation-state to be prepared to defend the lives and interests of its citizens, as well as to promote the interests of that nation-state's allies, and the interests of the global community, by force if necessary. No points for guessing what event drastically altered my thoughts on this matter. So I'm essentially the millitaristic hippie ;)