Books and imagination..

[alf48]

I wonder.. do you guys imagine when you read a book? since every description could be interpreted in different ways..

I do get lost in a web of imagination when I read.. especially good books like LotR..

So I guess.. even when I am reading's Tolkien's LotR.. it will also be re-translated into my own LotR..

Different people will have different views on Pippin.. Marry.. Frodo.. Gandalf..
each with different faces..

Just a thought.. :)

[Ascamaciliel]

yeah, the 1st time I read it, I had my own version of what everyone looked like. And FOTR kinda messed that up for me, but it's cool, cause it got really confusing for me remembering what I made everyone out to look like. In fact, I have a (harry potter)friend who hasn't seen the Harry Potter movies just because she doesn't want it to ruin her interpretation of the characters.

[Mrs. Maggott]

You see, that is why reading - or even listening to dramas through audio-books or on the radio (dated myself that time!) is WONDERFUL! Anything can happen in one's imagination! I remember a particular radio serial many years ago, "Straight Arrow" where this great Indian hero had a palomino - a golden horse - which he stabled in a cave whose walls were also gold. My! What a "vision" that was to me! Of course, the improbability of such a thing meant nothing to my seven year old mind! Just the "mind pictures" were worth listening every day. In fact, I can still remember the theme music so many, many years later!

We have, sadly, become a "visual" culture which is very limiting to the individual. While it is wonderful to "see" much of what had before been left to the "imagination", I fear that our dependency upon "pictures" that we see with our eyes instead of our minds will rob us of something too precious for words. :(

[Talimon]

We have, sadly, become a "visual" culture which is very limiting to the individual. While it is wonderful to "see" much of what had before been left to the "imagination", I fear that our dependency upon "pictures" that we see with our eyes instead of our minds will rob us of something too precious for words.

There is a difference between the dependency on film and the appreciation of film. It is sad when people grow up not reading a single book (which is largely the case in many parts of the world, including the majority of the USA). What is perhaps even sadder is when people grow up reading, but don't enjoy it in the least. It is unfortunate that many schools emphasize the importance of reading over the joy of it. I rarely, if ever, read on my own time because I feel it is "right" or "important". I enjoy it, and wouldn't do it as much as I do were it otherwise.

Since you did not accuse film I will not defend it. But I think there is much to be said about the power of sight and sound combined to tell stories and tales. Film and Literature are two separate mediums, but I would hesitate before calling one superior to the other. They each have thier advantages, but I would never criticize one and not the other. I've read books whos subtlety and power could never be captured on film, and I've seen films who's scope, imagination, and sheer intensity cannot be realized on page. I think this ties in with the whole idea of translating Tolkiens tale from page to screen: they are such completely different mediums, with such completely different demands.

[Mrs. Maggott]

Absolutely. As an artist, I can attest to the glories of and need for the visual. And as a devout reader, I can also attest to the fact that of those things that I have read which have been brought to the screen - big and little (screen, that is) - very few have been truly satisfactory. Of course, that was in comparison to the books upon which they were based and not in and of themselves.

And as for reading: when our "educational system" (and I use the term very loosely) abandoned the tried and true phonics method of teaching reading and replaced it with a "see and say" method which depends upon the child's ability to remember individual words, all that has been produced is something that was unknown before that method was introduced into our schools: so-called functional illiterates! One cannot read for pleasure if one cannot read with facility. If one has to agonize over every word, reading will quickly become an undesireable pastime - and when that happens, all of the information, data and knowledge which reading procures for the individual, is essentially lost. Until we return to a method of teaching reading which results in children being able to either recognize or "sound out" more than 400 words by the time they are in the third grade, I fear greatly for our culture in this 21st century. :(

[Thorin]

Man. I can't even picture what my life would be like without reading and music. I've been reading since when I can remember. I couldn't wait to finish my school work in class so I could have extra time to read the latest Bruno and Boots series from Gordon Korman or a Stephen King novel! Now, the kids in my classroom are like: "I'm done my work, I'm bored. I guess I'll walk around and disturb the class until the teacher gives me more work."

TV and computer just cannot compare to sitting down and losing yourself in a good story and visiting that imaginary world that you created for yourself and the characters of the books you read.

That is the reason why I'm so adamant about people reading LoTR before they even see the movie. They need to experience the wonder of joining Tolkien with your imagination and losing yourself in ME.

[kohaku]

I am a very visual person, but even so I quickly get bored watching TV or movies. Sure, there are some great films and shows out there, but the majority just hand you visuals and sounds and nothing else. Good films use visuals and sounds to make a statement, to make a point that is not at first obvious and must be reasoned or imagined. I like music and books much more because, as everyone else has said, they leave more to the imagination. Of course there is bad music and writing also but I'll just leave it at that.

[Nóm]

But one the great things about movies is the sound. If I could either watch or listen to most movies I'd choose to listen to them. I didn't really read much fiction until i was about 12 or 13, and even then I only read horror, thinking that fantasy and other fiction would bore me. But all my life I have read from educational type books, introductory mircobiology, geology, astromony, and mostly beginner level biology.
Books up until a couple years ago were not a major cause for me to use my imagination when I wasn't reading, rather I did that on my own. I am too much of a dreamer, but since reading Tolkien I find that I imagine less of the things I used to imagine, and spend more time imaging middle-earth.

Tolkien is the only author who has been able to cause me to abandon much of my own day dreams, and replace them with thoughts of someone else's world. His world. Middle-earth. This isn't a bad thing. I think one great thing about it is that this is something we can all share with other people. If I ever get married, he has to love Tolkien!

Movies though, have always been an inspiration for my imagination.
I watch a lot of really cheap movies, but I watch some good ones too, and sometimes my imagination runs wild after the movie is over.

So, I think it is different for different people, different movies, and different books.

[Talimon]

For me film is a powerful medium in a few different respects. Whether it is our culture or our nature, the power of sight cannot be as quickly captured with words. That old saying can still hold true... "A picture is worth a thousand words". A 10 second scene can involve enough elements to equal 2-3 pages of description. A well-made film can work on an aural, visual, and emotional level at the same time. It is true that most commercial films made today are complete junk, which is really a pity. But I have had experiences in film that have equaled those I've had in literature. The first 1/2 hour of 'Saving Private Ryan' is still one of the most gruesome and brutally real experiences I've ever seen. I'm a particularly big fan of Charlie Chaplin, whose films are often extremely lyrical and work on a few different levels and have different meanings for different people. Patton, Gandhi, Godfather... Lawrence of Arabia!!!

Then there is also the aspect of seeing a film in a theatre full of people. I believe films are rediculously highly priced today ($10 for a ticket?!? C'mon...), but the joy of seeing a GOOD film in a full audience is something I personally relish. Had you asked me a while back whether I'd rather see a film alone or with others I'd have said alone. But today I believe there is a subliminal exchange that goes on when you see a film with others. It's hard to put into words, but I can see a movie twice in the theatre and have a completely different experience each time, regardless of the film. This might sound hokey, but I believe the energy of the audience has a direct effect on the film-going experience. I've seen films I've absolutely loved and come out feeling the film was bad, only to return another day and have the time of my life. There is something about sharing this experience with others that works on a level I'd argue literature doesn't. Reading is a largely solitary activity, at least in its most common manifestation. Film comes from the more performance-oriented arts, such as music and theatre, and I feel that those audience-related elements still play a big role in the way they are percieved (and arguably made). There are movies that work well in a theatre and yet horribly at home, and others that are extremely boring in the theatre and yet genius at home. To tie this back to PJ's films, I feel the two editions released reflect this ideology. Even though I love the EE far more then the TC, it is hard for me to say whether it would work well in the theatre. I remember feeling, among my nuemerous visits to see FotR in the theatre, that the film would during certain viewings feel long. Yet at home the TC DVD went by in a flash, and felt akwardly short. I can only attribute this to the fact that a theatre audience has different expectations (and levels of patience) then an individual at home does.

[Nóm]

Yes it is different watching a movie in a room full of people. You mention Patton and I actually first watched that in class in 8th grade and thought it was one of the best movies I ever saw, but I watched it a couple years later and it was still good but didn't seem as good as it had the first time.

When watching fotr in the theatre I noticed that each group was different. During my first viewing I was honestly too deep into the movie to pay much attention. During my second viewing the croud was very quiet, then the third time there was a lot of laugher and comments, and the 4th time was like the second, It is strange.
People were obviously effected by other people in the room, laugher is the most notable aspect of this.
To top it all off, i was at the same theatre, at the same time of day, on the same day of the week each time I went.
My third time there was a bunch of silly young girls (I'm guessing 16-18) laughing and whatnot at Bilbo's conflict about the ring, and giggling throughout, and that is the only of the 4 viewings were i noticed people get up and leave. Unfortunately the silly young girls stayed for the full show.
Yeah, real funny when Bilbo is in such pain because he feels guilty about Frodo having to deal with the ring. In a way I can not blame them because I too may have laughed at such a thing had the story not been so dear to me and were Bilbo not my favorite mortal charactor out of all three books (lotr sil. hobbit). It just bothered me that they seemed to be missing out on a great story.

With TTT it should be quite different since the room will be full, whereas it was not when I watched fotr, because that i didn't see until March -Feb.

It is true that most commercial films made today are complete junk, which is really a pity.
It is especially sad what has happend with so called 'horror' movies.
I just don't care what they did last summer.
The thing is that people are watching these movies, why? I do not understand.