Silmarillion: Of the Beginning of Days

[Elfarmari]

Here are the additional readings I have found, feel free to add any!

Book of Lost Tales Volume One: Chapter 3, The Coming of the Valar and the Building of Valinor

The Lost Road and other writings: The Later Annals of Valinor

Morgoth's Ring: The Annals of Aman, Of Valinor and the Two Trees


This picture of one of the Lamps of the Valar is by Ted Nasmith (http://www.torania.de/luthien/silmaril/nasmith-lampvalar.htm)
This picture of the Hall of Manwe is by J.R.R. Tolkien himself (http://www.torania.de/luthien/silmaril/tolkien-halls.htm)



For anyone who is interested, I have found this translation of part of 'Of the Beginning of Days' on the Gwaith-i-Phethdain website.

Yessesse sanaron
Ná nyárina mí istimor sa minya ohtaron yesetyane nó ontale Ardo etélie, nó ú nato avantie var alaurie palúrenna Ambaro, ar andave Melkor túrea. Nan endesse ohto sina, huorea a valya fea tulle ve tulco Valarin, háya menello istala mahtale Pityanóresse, ar Arda enromane nallámanen lalateryo. Sinave tulle Polda Tulkas, aharya tule ve aha ilweo morne lumbolínen nótulda. Melkor oante et alassea oromeryallo a hehtane Arda, ar i sére andave lartane. Tulkas marne Ambaresse a ve Valar Ardava, a Melkor erúmea Morniesse lartane. Tevierya Tulkassenna vorima.
Mi lú sina, i Valar cantaner eari a nóri ar oronti, san Yavanna rende erdi ya ontanerente andavello. San, an i nári túrine var hehtine nu minye ambor, cále penya. Maquentenen Yavanno, Aule colle endesse earion atta alte calme ya acárieronte, an faininte Endórenna. Varda quanterente, Manwe tintaneronte a Valar panyanentente alte tarmenna, analte ilye orontion yalmin erner. Minya ortana formenesse Endóreo, Illuin esserya, tatya hyarmenesse, Ormal, ar i cále calmato Valariva untúpane cemenna yasse ilqua calane ve aure ú metto.

San i erdi rérine Yavannanen tuianer a tuimaner alarcave, rimbe nation alte a pitye ortane cemenenna, salqui a taurefalli a halle filqui, ar aldar ríne fanyarinen ve cuine oronti ya sundarenta unlantaner laiqua undómesse. Celvar tuller a nortaner nandissen, sírissen ar ailinissen, ar arta-lender lómin taurion. Ú lóteo er olohtie, ú aiweo ilírie, an nati sine lartaner lúmenta endasse Yavanno, nan úve asánieres, ar únomesse analya endenna Ambaro, masse alcar calmato ovantaner ar otuller. Alt' Ailinesse, tolenna Almareno, mí lúme ilqua vinya, mí lúme sinya laiquasse er ve lúce an hendi ontaroryon, Valar carner minya marenta, ar andave aqua valini sinanen.

Martane mi lúme sina sa Valar sender mótalentallon a yétaner tuiyale a palyale nation asánierente san ontiententa, Manwe tulcane alta merende yanna Valar a rimbenta tuller yelloryanen. Nan Aule a Tulkas pícane, an veuyaner ilya cururinen minyo a tuonen tatyo, lárvalta ar sérevalta. A Melkor sinte ilqua carina, arwa muinave meldoron ar ettirnoron mí Maiar ya alantier nu sanyerya. Vahaia Morniesse, néro sance, milca an mótamar torniryo ya merneronte nu máhanerya. San et erúmie taicarillon Eo hostanero i fear hépine an veuyalerya a sananeros polda. Sanala lúmerya túlina, antullero Ardanna, yétaneros hendunen ar i cenwe Ambaro tuileryasse quantes vinya tevienen.
I Valar hostaine Almarenna caurevalta a cálenen Iluino ú-cenner huine Melkoro formenesse, utúliero ve Mornie Lusteo. A ná nyarina sa merendesse Ardatuileo Tulkas vestane Nessa, seler Oromeo, a liltanere nó Valar laiqua salquenna Almareno.

San Tulkas lantane fúmesse, tuovalta ar iquista, a Melkor sanane i lúme túlina. O hosserya lendero or Rambar Fuiva a tulle eccaira formenesse Endóreo a Valar ú istaner sina.
San yesetyanero unca talan an care analta sarne haira undu cemen, nu morne oronti yasse alcar Iluineva pícane a halcini. Esse sarneo sina Utumno. Ar Valar ú istalaner sina er, úmea Melkoro a uryala tevierya palune tenna persa Tuile Ardo.

[Maedhros]

All quotes are from the Published Silmarillion:
But in the midst of the war a spirit of great strength and hardihood came to the aid of the Valar, hearing in the far heaven that there was battle in the Little Kingdom; and Arda was filled with the sound of his laughter. So came Tulkas the Strong, whose anger passes like a mighty wind, scattering cloud and darkness before it; and Melkor fled before his wrath and his laughter, and forsook Arda, and there was peace for a long age.
We have the coming of Tulkas Astaldo (Poldórëa), because he was "attracted by battle".
1. I wonder if Tulkas got bored after his battles with Melkor? He wasn't in love with Arda as the other Valar were, and it seems to me that he's reason to come to it was to fight Melkor, (he ended up marrying Nessa)
And since, when the fires were subdued or buried beneath the primeval hills, there was need of light, Aulë at the prayer of Yavanna wrought two mighty lamps for the lighting of the Middle-earth which he had built amid the encircling seas. Then Varda filled the lamps and Manwë hallowed them, and the Valar set them upon high pillars, more lofty far than are any mountains of the later days.
Interesting to note that the Lamps (Illuin (Ringil) in the North and Ormal (Helkar) in the south ), were the work of more than one Valar.
Then the seeds that Yavanna had sown began swiftly to sprout and to burgeon, and there arose a multitude of growing things great and small, mosses and grasses and great ferns, and trees whose tops were crowned with cloud as they were living mountains, but whose feet were wrapped in a green twilight. And beasts came forth and dwelt in the grassy plains, or in the rivers and the lakes, or walked in the shadows of the woods. As yet no flower had bloomed nor any bird had sung, for these things waited still their time in the bosom of Yavanna; but wealth there was of her imagining, and nowhere more rich than in the midmost parts of the Earth, where the light of both the Lamps met and blended. And there upon the Isle of Almaren in the Great Lake was the first dwelling of the Valar when all things were young, and new-made green was yet a marvel in the eyes of the makers; and they were long content.
Notice the similarity that there is too a place where the light blends.
2. Is this a trend in the making?
Then the Valar knew indeed that Melkor was at work again, and they sought for his hiding place. But Melkor, trusting in the strength of Utumno and the might of his servants, came forth suddenly to war, and struck the first blow, ere the Valar were prepared; and he assailed the lights of Illuin and Ormal, and cast down their pillars and broke their lamps. In the overthrow of the mighty pillars lands were broken and seas arose in tumult; and when the lamps were spilled destroying flame was poured out over the Earth. And the shape of Arda and the symmetry of its waters and its lands was marred in that time, so that the first designs of the Valar were never after restored.
3. It seems that when the Valar battle, Arda is altered. Arda is marred, but will Arda unmarred be better than Arda Healed?
Therefore they departed from Middle-earth and went to the Land of Aman, the westernmost of all lands upon the borders of the world; for its west shores looked upon the Outer Sea, that is called by the Elves Ekkaia, encircling the Kingdom of Arda. How wide is that sea none know but the Valar; and beyond it are the Walls of the Night. But the east shores of Aman were the uttermost end of Belegaer, the Great Sea at the West; and since Melkor was returned to Middle-earth and they could not yet overcome him, the Valar fortified their dwelling, and upon the shores of the sea they raised the Pelóri, the Mountains of Aman, highest upon Earth.
4. Isn't this wrong, to leave the most of ME unprotected of Melkor and isolate yourself? Aren't the Valar responsible for the whole of Arda and not just Aman?
Behind the walls of the Pelóri the Valar established their domain in that region which is called Valinor, and there were their houses, their gardens, and their towers. In that guarded land the Valar gathered great store of light and an the fairest things that were saved from the ruin; and many others yet fairer they made anew, and Valinor became more beautiful even than Middle-earth in the Spring of Arda; and it was blessed, for the Deathless dwelt there,
5. Again, is Arda Unmarred better than Arda Healed? Can Valinor be considered Arda Healed?
And as they watched, upon the mound there came forth two slender shoots; and silence was over all the world in that hour, nor was there any other sound save the chanting of Yavanna. Under her song the saplings grew and became fair and tail, and came to flower; and thus there awoke in the world the Two Trees of Valinor.
6. We have two lamps and now two trees. Coincidence?
Telperion was the elder of the trees and came first to full stature and to bloom; and that first hour in which he shone, the white glimmer of a silver dawn
The first tree had a "silver glimmer". Notice that in all of ME silver appears to be the element less afected by Melkor, unlike gold (Sauron's ring, hoardes of dwarves, etc.)
From the beauty and bliss of Valinor the Valar came seldom over the mountains to Middle-earth, but gave to the land beyond the Pelóri their care and their love.
7. If that is so, then why do they isolated themselves by creating the Pelóri?
It is one with this gift of freedom that the children of Men dwell only a short space in the world alive, and are not bound to it, and depart soon whither the Elves know not.
8. Is this why men seem so restless and are always seeking for the unknown?
But the sons of Men die indeed, and leave the world; wherefore they are called the Guests, or the Strangers. Death is their fate, the gift of Ilúvatar, which as Time wears even the Powers shall envy. But Melkor has cast his shadow upon it, and confounded it with darkness, and brought forth evil out of good, and fear out of hope.
I think that a perfect example of this is in the Athrabeth Findod Ah Andreth, in Morgoth's Ring.
Yet of old the Valar declared to the Elves in Valinor that Men shall join in the Second Music of the Ainur; whereas Ilúvatar has hot revealed what he purposes for the Elves after the World's end, and Melkor has not discovered it.
This, along with some notes in the Ainulindalë has kept me wondering about wether the Eldar would have a part in the Second Music as stated in the Ainulindalë, or if it was just a "mistake" by JRRT.
From Book of Lost Tales: Commentary on the Music of the Ainur:

'It is said that a mightier [music] far shall be woven before the seat of Ilúvatar by the choirs of both Ainur and the sons of Men after the Great End', and in the concluding sentence of the text: 'Yet while the sons of Men will after the passing of things of a certainty join in the Second Music of the Ainur, what Ilúvatar has devised for the Eldar beyond the world's end he has not revealed even to the Valar, and Melko has not discovered it.' Now in the first revision of the Ainulindalë (which dates from the 1930s) the first of these sentences was changed to read: '... by the choirs of the Ainur and the Children of Ilúvatar after the end of days', whereas the second remained, in this essential, unchanged. This remained the case right through to the final version. It is possible that the change in the first passage was unintentional, the substitution of another common phrase, and that this was never subsequently picked up. However, in the published work (pp. 15, 42) I left the two passages as they stand.

[Eöl]

5. Again, is Arda Unmarred better than Arda Healed? Can Valinor be considered Arda Healed?


I think Valinor would be more along the lines of Arda Unmarred, because save when he destroyed the Two Trees in Valinor, he came never there and it was perfect, as the Valar had desired it to be. Now, on the other hand, Arda has been marred several times...


...and they built lands and Melkor destroyed them; valleys they delved and Melkor raised them up; mountains they carved and Melkor threw them down; seas they hollowed and Melkor spilled them; and naught might have peace or come to lasting growth, for as surely as the Valar began a labour so would Melkor undo it or corrupt it.

And it will never be complete until the Final Battle, when the earth is broken.

6. We have two lamps and now two trees. Coincidence?

I think so because the White Tree of Gondor, offspring of the 2 Trees is only one obviously...and of course they have to have the sun and moon, I suppose not necessarily because it is a fantasy story. Nevertheless, it would make more sense to readers if the world was somewhat like their own. At least, I think it would.

7. If that is so, then why do they isolated themselves by creating the Pelóri?

I think it's because they do not wish to have Melkor invade their land again. The definition of Pelori in the index is "The fencing or defensive heights".

[Elfarmari]

Due to circumstances beyond my control (i.e. a four day long migraine) I have been unable to post this earlier; I am very sorry for the delay.

Quotes are from the Silmarillion unless otherwise noted.
It is told among the wise that the First War began before Arda was full-shaped, and ere yet there was any thing that grew or walked upon earth; and for long Melkor had the upper hand. But in the midst of the war a spirit of great strength and hardihood came to the aid of the Valar, hearing in the far heaven that there was battle in the Little Kingdom; and Arda was filled with the sound of his laughter. So came Tulkas the Strong, whose anger passes like a mighty wind, scattering cloud and darkness before it; and Melkor fled before his wrath and his laughter, and forsook Arda, and there was peace for a long age. For long, Melkor had the upper hand against all the other Valar. Did Tulkas alone cause Melkor to flee? Or did he simply tip the balance? How was Melkor more powerful than all the other Valar combined?

and the light of the Lamps of the Valar flowed out over the Earth, so that all was lit as it were in a changeless day.
.. .Because of the waywardness of Tillion, therefore, and yet more becaue of the prayers of Lorien and Este, who said that sleep and rest had been banished from the earth. . . Why was this not a concern with the lamps?


From the Simarillion
Therefore he gathered to himself spirits out of the halls of Eä that he had perverted to his service, and he deemed himself strong.

From Morgoth's Ring
Therefore he gathered to himself spirits out of the voids of Ea that he had perverted to his service, and he deemed himself strong. Were these among the maiar already in Arda, or from the Outer Void where Melkor had fled?

and afterwards they feared to rend the Earth again, until they knew where the Children of Ilúvatar were dwelling, who were yet to come in a time that was hidden from the Valar. Why did the Valar not worry about Men during their battle with Melkor after the Elves awaken?
And the shape of Arda and the symmetry of its waters and its lands was marred in that time, so that the first designs of the Valar were never after restored. Random comment: Melkor is responsible for the shape of Arda.

Yavanna hallowed it, and she sat there long upon the green grass and sang a song of power, in which was set all her thought of things that grow in the earth Is a song of power a song of command, which helps bring the Two Trees into being? Is this the same kind of power used by Gandalf in his words of Command with fire and the door in Moria? Is it the sam kind of power used by Sauron and Finrod Felagund in this exerpt from the Lay of Leithian?
From The Lays of Beleriand, and the Silmarillion
He [Sauron] chanted a song of wizardry,/ Of piercing, opening, of treachery,/ Revealing, uncovering, betraying./ Then sudden Felagund there swaying/ Sang in answer a song of staying,/ Resisting, battling against power,/ Of secrets kept, strength like a tower,/ And trust unbroken, freedom, escape;/ Of changing and of shifting shape/ Of snares eluded, broken traps,/ The prison opening, the chain that snaps.
Backwards and forwards swayed their song./ Reeling and foundering, as ever more strong/ The chanting swelled, Felagund fought,/ And all the magic and might he brought/ Of Elvenesse into his words. . . .
And Finrod fell before the throne.

Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world. In my mind this would argue for the Eagles of later ages being Maiar, or other such spirits.

and if ever in their dealings with Elves and Men the Ainur have endeavoured to force them when they would not be guided, seldom has this turned to good, howsoever good the intent. The dealings of the Ainur have indeed been mostly with the Elves, for Ilúvatar made them more like in nature to the Ainur, though less in might and stature; whereas to Men he gave strange gifts. To me, the author seems to be condeming the actions of the Valar in inviting the Quendi to Aman. Do you think this echoes Tolkien's thoughts?

Also, this would seem to explain the reason the Valar aided men so little.

[Finduilas]

7.If that is so,then why do they isolated themselves by creating the Pelyri?

On the one hand,because Aman bordered Belegaer and as Tolkien wrote Melkor had returned to the Middle-Earth.So they ,actually,wanted to protect themselves.
But on the other hand,they used the mountain as a 'tower'.Manwe built his king's chair(sorry for the translation but I couldn't find it in the dictionary)there and he could watch Middle-Earth's life.
But I should admit that I had considered and another explanation of their action,I mean it isn't mentioned by Tolkien himself.
I think Valar were worried and frightened of Morgoth's power but they also could feel that everything was going to be destroyed and many evil things would happen such as betrayal,doubt,etc.
They wanted to isolate themselves of men and their proclivity to influance and betray as well.They simpley wanted to separate complete good of complete evil.But they did love Middle-Earth and its residents too much to leave them alone so they continued to give to the land their care and love.
But the only differance then was they didn't usually did it from the Middle-Earth itsself but from the sacred Valinor.

[Ithrynluin]

5. Again, is Arda Unmarred better than Arda Healed? Can Valinor be considered Arda Healed?

I think Valinor can be considered Arda Unmarred, not Arda Healed because that part of the world was never marred by Melkor to begin with (yet, that is - we know that later Melkor taints it).

6. We have two lamps and now two trees. Coincidence?

I do not know if there is any significance in the fact that the number of the lamps and the number of the trees was the same. The Valar probably desired to somehow bring back their initial creation (the lamps) and making TWO trees probably helped a bit. Note that Yavanna is the one at whose bidding the lamps were made and she is the one who makes the Two Trees (with some help from Nienna).

The first tree had a "silver glimmer". Notice that in all of ME silver appears to be the element less afected by Melkor, unlike gold (Sauron's ring, hoardes of dwarves, etc.)

I think you have a point there. The first tree was silver and the second was golden. Let's make a parallel between the Children:
*The firstcomers,the elves (silver - the moon) - can hardly be corrupted by evil
*The secondborn,the men (gold - the sun) - were highly susceptible to being corrupted
I hope this makes some sense. Sauron also coveted silver(mithril) very much and it was very precious to him.

7. If that is so, then why do they isolated themselves by creating the Pelóri?

I do not understand your question. The quote says that they rarely came to ME,but gave their love "to the land beyond the Pelóri" (=Valinor).

8. Is this why men seem so restless and are always seeking for the unknown?

Strange are the gifts that Eru gave to the race of Men. Their fate is shrouded in mist. I guess men are destined to be constantly searching for answers in their brief existence,but I doubt that they find them in life...only when they depart to Eru's halls do they find out the truth IMHO.

I will add some of my own questions later.:)

[Nenya Evenstar]

I will begin by commenting on Meadhros's questions. :)

I wonder if Tulkas got bored after his battles with Melkor? He wasn't in love with Arda as the other Valar were, and it seems to me that he's reason to come to it was to fight Melkor, (he ended up marrying Nessa)
I don't think that Tulkus would have gotten bored. In fact, I bet he was even more entertained than before for in the Halls of Eru there were no battles. So, Arda was probably more exciting for Tulkus. Perhaps he went to Arda because of boredom? Or, perhaps he was simply showing yet another example of how Tolkien's characters sacrifice themselves for others.

Interesting to note that the Lamps (Illuin (Ringil) in the North and Ormal (Helkar) in the south ), were the work of more than one Valar.
It is also interesting to note that the two trees Telperion and Laurelin as well as the Sun and Moon were the work of more than one Valar.
Before its western gate there was a green mound, Ezellohar, that is named also Corollaire; and Yavanna hallowed it, and she sat there long upon the green grass and sang a song of power, in which was set all her thought of things that grow in the earth. But Nienna thought in silene, and watered the mould with tears. "The Sil., Of the Beginning of Days"
Yavanna and Nienna were the creators of the Two Trees of Valinor.
Then Manwe bade Yavanna and Nienna to put forth all their powers of growth and healling; and they put forth all their powers upon the Trees....But the flower and the fruit Yavanna gave to Aule, and Manwe hallowed them, and Aule and his people made vessels to hold them and preserve their radiance.... "The Sil., Of the Sun and Moon"
Also the work of more than one Vala. I also find it interesting that Melkor attempted to destroy all lights that came into the world. He destroyed first the lamps, then the Trees (with the help of Ungoliant), and he then attempted to destoy the Moon but was foiled. He was unable to attempt to destroy the Sun for he no longer had the power.
3. It seems that when the Valar battle, Arda is altered. Arda is marred, but will Arda unmarred be better than Arda Healed?
I will attempt this question. I guess it would depend on how you look at it. Arda Healed carries with it the pain of defeat, and the joy of victory. It has many elements of sadness riddled throughout, but with that sadness comes joy at success. Arda unmarred would have none of these feelings. It would be perfect. So, I guess you could ask, which is better? The perfect, or the feeling? The knowledge that where you are has never known pain, or the knowledge that you have defeated that pain? I would prefer the latter, personally. However, Arda unmarred would be what was Arda without the pain, but what was Arda went through those hurts and pains as did its people. So, though Arda may be made unmarred the thoughts and knowledge of what it used to be would still exist making for a pleasing aroma of both.
4. Isn't this wrong, to leave the most of ME unprotected of Melkor and isolate yourself? Aren't the Valar responsible for the whole of Arda and not just Aman?
Well, as the Valar did not have any but themselves to worry about at that time I do not think it was wrong - at that time, that is.
... and since Melkor was returned to Middle-earth and they could not yet overcome him, the Valar fortified their dwelling, and upon the shores of the sea they raised the Pelóri, the Mountains of Aman, highest upon Earth.
The Valar could not overcome Melkor and raised the Pelori for that reason. However, instead of staying behind the Pelori and letting Melkor do his will on ME, I would think that the Valar should have, after fortiying their realm, made plans to destroy Melkor before the coming of the Children of Iluvatar. They had plenty of time.
6. We have two lamps and now two trees. Coincidence?
I have to differ with Celebrian and Ithryluin here. I do not think it is coincidence, for whenever the Valar created lights they always created two. I only wish that one of the lamps had shed a light of silver light. That would have put all thoughts of coincidence out of question. ;)

7. If that is so, then why do they isolated themselves by creating the Pelóri?
I am afraid I don't understand the question. :(

8. Is this why men seem so restless and are always seeking for the unknown?
It is a very pretty picture to think this way. It could be. The Elves always seem content with where they are, but Men seem to want more of what they cannot get and seem to try to reach to greater hights than even they are capable of reaching (The Numenoreans, for example). The Elves learned wisdom and patience; Men learned what they could and always tried to delve deeper than that. Arg! This question is deep! :p

I will be back with more later.

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by Nenya Evenstar
I have to differ with Celebrian and Ithryluin here. I do not think it is coincidence, for whenever the Valar created lights they always created two. I only wish that one of the lamps had shed a light of silver light. That would have put all thoughts of coincidence out of question. ;)


Nenya I'm afraid you misunderstood me.Even though I expressed doubt about this issue (in either direction) I leaned more to the fact that the Valar made 2 of everything after the destruction of the lamps and that they did so intentionally and consciously. But what is the real reason behind the number 2?

Now,for some of my own questions/ramblings:
1.
And Melkor knew of all that was done, for even then he had secret friends and spies among the Maiar whom he had converted to his cause;

Therefore he gathered to himself spirits out of the halls of Eä that he had perverted to his service, and he deemed himself strong.

Who of the Maiar acted as a spy among the Valar? Sauron? If it was him, his list of atrocities runs even longer. How did the Valar not perceive a traitor in their gathering?
What are "the halls of Eä"? These can't possibly be Eru's halls?

2.
But Ilúvatar knew that Men, being set amid the turmoils of the powers of the world, would stray often, and would not use their gifts in harmony; and he said: ''These too in their time shall find that all that they do redounds at the end only to the glory of my work.' Yet the Elves believe that Men are often a grief to Manwë, who knows most of the mind of Ilúvatar; for it seems to the Elves that Men resemble Melkor most of all the Ainur, although he has ever feared and hated them, even those that served him.


The Elves thought that Men are a grievance to Manwë? Isn't that a bit arrogant to say? Look at how many times the Elves themselves (notably the Noldor) caused Manwë to get some grey hair!
Why do they think that Men resemble Melkor most of all the Ainur?:(

[Elfarmari]

Originally posted by ithrynluin
The Elves thought that Men are a grievance to Manwë? Isn't that a bit arrogant to say? Look at how many times the Elves themselves (notably the Noldor) caused Manwë to get some grey hair!
Why do they think that Men resemble Melkor most of all the Ainur?:( [/B]

I agree about the arrogance. Perhaps the they said Men resembled Melkor because they seemed to flout the 'doom' of the Elves and Valar; meaning that they were not bound to the themes in the original music with the same certainty.

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by Elfarmari
I agree about the arrogance. Perhaps the they said Men resembled Melkor because they seemed to flout the 'doom' of the Elves and Valar; meaning that they were not bound to the themes in the original music with the same certainty.

Well,that sounds like jealousy to me.They have their immortality and greater "powers" than man,they can't have everything!;)

Glad to see you back after your illness,Elfarmari!:)

[Maedhros]

I am afraid I don't understand the question.
From Morgoth's Ring: Myths Transformed VIII
. The last major effort, of this demiurgic kind, made by the Valar was the lifting up of the range of the Pelori to a great height. It is possible to view this as, if not an actually bad action, at least as a mistaken one. Ulmo disapproved of it. It had one good, and legitimate, object: the preservation incorrupt of at least a part of Arda. But it seemed to have a selfish or neglectful (or despairing) motive also; for the effort to preserve the Elves incorrupt there had proved a failure if they were to be left free: many had refused to come to the Blessed Realm, many had revolted and left it. Whereas, with regard to Men, Manwë and all the Valar knew quite well that they could not come to Aman at all; and the longevity (co-extensive with the life of Arda) of Valar and Eldar was expressly not permitted to Men. Thus the 'Hiding of Valinor' came near to countering Morgoth's possessiveness by a rival possessiveness, setting up a private domain of light and bliss against one of darkness and domination: a palace and a pleasaunce (well-fenced) against a fortress and a dungeon.
This is in a way what I mean, they kind of left ME to Morgoth in a way.
Also the work of more than one Vala. I also find it interesting that Melkor attempted to destroy all lights that came into the world. He destroyed first the lamps, then the Trees (with the help of Ungoliant), and he then attempted to destoy the Moon but was foiled. He was unable to attempt to destroy the Sun for he no longer had the power.
Very truth, he wanted the light for himself or for none.
Who of the Maiar acted as a spy among the Valar? Sauron? If it was him, his list of atrocities runs even longer. How did the Valar not perceive a traitor in their gathering?
Maybe, but it can be easily explained by the Osanwe-kenta essay.
If we speak last of the "folly" of Manwë and the weakness and unwariness of the Valar, let us beware how we judge. In the histories, indeed, we may be amazed and grieved to read how (seemingly) Melkor deceived and cozened others, and how even Manwë appears at times almost a simpleton compared with him: as if a kind but unwise father were treating a wayward child who would assuredly in time perceive the error of his ways. Whereas we, looking on and knowing the outcome, see now that Melkor knew well the error of his ways, but was fixed in them by hate and pride beyond return. He could read the mind of Manwë, for the door was open; but his own mind was false and even if the door seemed open, there were doors of iron within closed for ever.
With the maiar it would be the same thing.

[Lhunithiliel]

I would like to introduce to your attention a very interesting variant of the "Making of the two lamps".
It is to be read in HoME, Vol.1, "Of the Valar and Building of Valinor"
Now because of the darkness Aule suaded Melko to build
two towers to the North and South, for he purposed to set
upon them mighty lamps one upon each.
?????? Aule and Melkor TOGETHER? Melkor in a process of CREATION, not DESTRUCTION??????!!!!!!!
But read further:
These did Aule himself fashion of gold and silver, and the pillars were raised by Melko and were very tall, and shone like pale blue crystal and when Aule smote them with his hand they rang like
metal.
But:
Melko said they were of an imperishable substance of great strength that he had devised; and he lied, for he knew that they were of ice.
Isn't Melkor true to his evil ? !

Now, about the two lamps:
That one of the North he named Ringil and of the South Helkar, and the lamps were made ready and set upon them, being filled with gathered light, silver to the North and golden to the South.

OK. They made the lamps>>>> FOR WHAT PURPOSE?
Read this:
This light had Manwe and Varda gathered lavishly from the sky, that the Gods might the better explore the regions of the world, and choose the fairest for their home.
Any concern for somebody else in Arda? NOT whatsoever!

Now, remember who made the pillars of the lamps? (the above quotes)
...lo! the lamps to North and South flickered and fell, and as they fell the waters rose about the isles. ...... it so happened that the blaze of those lights had melted the treacherous ice of the pillars of Melko, Ringil and Helkar, and great floods of water had poured from them into the Shadowy Seas.
So great was their thaw that whereas those seas were at first of no great size but clear and warm, now were they black and wide and vapours lay upon them and deep shades, for the great cold rivers that poured into them. Thus were the mighty lamps unseated from on
high and the clangour of their fall shook the stars, and some
of their light was spilled again into the air, but much flowed
upon the earth and made fires and deserts for its great volume
ere it gathered into lakes and pools.
So, it were the seas that were changed and marred.

Well, to me those were quite interesting points of difference in comparison to what we read in the Silmarillion.

Out of all this I personally ever more hard to believe in the sincere intentions of the Valar to work for the wellfare of the ME and the Children who were still to come!

[Lhunithiliel]

I appologize for these successive posts but I am trully amazed by the differences to be found between the "popular" tale of creation of the two trees and the one, given in the same source quoted in my above post.
Because, there it is said that Yavanna took part in the "birth" of only ONE of the trees, and Nienna is nowhere in the picture ;) Instead, a lot more Valar took part in the creation of the trees.
But you'd better see it for yourselves:
Ulmo rose from his deeps and fared to the blazing lakes and the pools of brilliance.Therefrom he drew rivers of light into vast vessels, pouring back waters in their place, and with these he got him back to Valinor.

There was all the light poured into two great cauldrons that
Aule fashioned in the gloom against his return, and those are
called Kulullin and Silindrin.

Now in the midmost vale they digged two great pits.

In the one did Ulmo set seven rocks of gold brought from the most silent deeps of the sea, and a fragment was cast thereafter of the lamp that had burned awhile upon Helkar in the South. Then was the pit coveredwith rich earths that Palurien devised.

....and Vana came who loveth life and sunlight and at whose song the flowers arise and open, and the murmur of her maidens round her was like to the merry noise of folk that stir abroad for the first time on a bright morning. There sang she the song of spring upon the mound, and danced about it, and wateredit with great streams of that
golden light that Ulmo had brought from the spilled lakes yet was Kulullin almost o'erflowing at the end.

But in the other pit' they cast three huge pearls that Osse
found in the Great Sea, and a small star Varda cast after them,
and they covered it with foams and white mists and thereafter
sprinkled lightly earth upon it.

but Lorien who loveth twilights and flittering shadows, and sweet scents borne upon evening winds, who is the lord of dreams and imaginings,sat nigh and whispered swift noiseless words, while his sprites played half-heard tunes beside him like music stealing out
into the dark from distant dwellings; and the Gods poured upon that place rivers of the white radiance and silver light which Silindrin held even to the brim - and after their pouring was Silindrin yet well nigh full.

And now the final spell:
Then came Palurien, even Kemi the Earth-lady, wife of Aule, mother of the lord of forests, and she wove spells about those two places, deep enchantments of life and growth and putting forth of leaf, blossoming and yielding of fruit -- but she mingled no word of fading in her song. There having sung she brooded for a great while, and the Valar sat in a circle about...
HOW ABOUT THIS !!!!!

And not to forget that the trees rose from earth with a sharp time-sequence of 12 hours. Isn't it a most beautiful way to describe the issue of day and night?!

[Nóm]

First I'll just say that I think Arda unmarred was Arda immature.


By ithrynluin
The Elves thought that Men are a grievance to Manwë? Isn't that a bit arrogant to say? Look at how many times the Elves themselves (notably the Noldor) caused Manwë to get some grey hair!
Why do they think that Men resemble Melkor most of all the Ainur?
1) Sometimes truth sounds arrogant. If it is true why not think/speak it.

2)They turn to evil more than the other races do, they want to be powerful and create their own things.

[gate7ole]

4. Isn't this wrong, to leave the most of ME unprotected of Melkor and isolate yourself? Aren't the Valar responsible for the whole of Arda and not just Aman?
Before putting blame to the Valar, let’s consider their motives:
And the Valar could not at that time overcome him, for the greater part of their strength was needed to restrain the tumults of the Earth, and to save from ruin all that could be saved of their labour; and afterwards they feared to rend the Earth again, until they knew where the Children of Ilúvatar were
dwelling, who were yet to come in a time that was hidden from the Valar.
And afterwards they didn’t dare to assault Melkor not knowing the precise location where the Elves would awaken. I should rather say that the Valar’s fault was that they didn’t perceive Melkor’s evil actions soon enough to stop him.

Why was this not a concern with the lamps?
We read in the Book Of Lost Tales I:
Much is said to emphasize the great size of the “Fruit of Noon” and the increase in the heat and brilliance of the Sunship after his launching, so that the reflection rises less readily that if the Sun that brilliantly illuminates the whole Earth was but a fruit of Laurelin then Valinor must have been painfully bright and hot in the days of the Trees…. The outpourings of life from the dying Trees are utterly strange and ‘enormous’. And the anger and distress of the Valar at the burning light of the Sun enforces the feeling that in the last fruit of Laurelin a terrible and unforeseen power has been released.
This may explain the extreme brightness of the Sun and the need to hide it for some time during the day.

In my mind this would argue for the Eagles of later ages being Maiar, or other such spirits
Agreed. But how could Thorondor have descendants (Gwaihir) if the other Ainur didn’t have any? Is this a remainder of Tolkien’s earlier mythology where the Valar had children?

What are "the halls of Eä"? These can't possibly be Eru's halls?
I don’t think that they are the same. No Vala could return to Eru’s halls after entering Arda. The halls of Eä must be a place inside Eä, but not on the surface (maybe somewhere in Ilmen)

Why do they think that Men resemble Melkor most of all the Ainur?
Except the apparent similarity that they are both prone to evil, they both work outside the Music of Ainur (Melkor by rebelling, Men by their gift)

Well, to me those were quite interesting points of difference in comparison to what we read in the Silmarillion.
Out of all this I personally ever more hard to believe in the sincere intentions of the Valar to work for the wellfare of the ME and the Children who were still to come!
You shouldn’t forget that the passages from BOLT are very early. The later Silmarillion is more careful not to blame the other Valar. They no more assign the making of the lamps to Melkor and their motives are clearly better and not self-centered. They make mistakes, but not of egoism or total incompetence. The proper Silamrillion is

About the arrogance of the Elves, I have to agree with Nóm.

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by Nóm
1) Sometimes truth sounds arrogant. If it is true why not think/speak it.

2)They turn to evil more than the other races do, they want to be powerful and create their own things.

1) Because IT IS ARROGANT and a bit hypocritical even, since they themselves erred. That is MY opinion.

2)They want to be powerful AND CREATE THEIR OWN THINGS? So do elves,and especially the second part of your statement is much more typical of the elves
Yes, indeed men turn to evil more...let's take a look at how the Valar treated them: They were not herded and directed by Oromë or some other Vala or anyone at all!What greeted them when they awoke? Melkor's darkness and his deceits.
Luckily for the race of Men (and the conscience of the Valar), there was a certain fair-haired elf who showed the right path and provided guidance to the three kindreds of Men.
So most men ARE a grievance to Manwë,but whose fault is that?

And BTW,thank you for sharing those earlier versions of the texts with us Lhunithiliel!:)

[Lhunithiliel]

I agree that that was an earlier version.
But I find it so more complete and detailed!
After all, the Silmarillion contains much from those early versions, yet is NOT complete, right? And I think, that they just "open our eyes" for many details.

There, in that same text, I found astonishing information on Tolkien's ideas on the issue of Men and their doom. Amazing details! These + the magnificent debate between Finrod and Andreth give us, the readers, much much much MORE notion of what the Professor had in mind, concerning the fate of the race of Men! Unfortunately, the "picture" is sooooo "dark"! Despair! This is what is sensed when reading those lines! And also it is quite a strong feeling of .... "anger" one gets too! "Anger" and "pity" for our race, being considered inferior from the beginning of the days! For everything was done in favour and for the wellfare of the Gods and their followers - the Firstborn......and so little - for the Secondborn!

"Early version", you say.... But it's also the original ;) And the initial, the original.... isn't it the best?

[Ithrynluin]

Most definitely Lhun - those versions sure paint a vivid picture (and a different one,mind you)!:)

Since both gate7 and Nóm disagree with me on the question of the Elves' arrogance that I asked a few posts back, I would like to hear your opinion on the matter too!

Though your post kind of swerves into my direction:

Originally posted by Lhunithiliel
Despair! This is what is sensed when reading those lines! And also it is quite a strong feeling of .... "anger" one gets too! "Anger" and "pity" for our race, being considered inferior from the beginning of the days! For everything was done in favour and for the wellfare of the Gods and their followers - the Firstborn......and so little - for the Secondborn!

But please elaborate on that if you will.:D

Another question that I stumbled upon concerns the Two Trees:

from HOME V: The Lost Road
Of all things which the Gods made they have most renown, and about their fate all the tales of the Elder Days are woven.

from the published Silmarillion
And as they watched, upon the mound there came forth two slender shoots; and silence was over all the world in that hour, nor was there any other sound save the chanting of Yavanna. Under her song the saplings grew and became fair and tail, and came to flower; and thus there awoke in the world the Two Trees of Valinor. Of all things which Yavanna made they have most renown, and about their fate all the tales of the Elder Days are woven.

Note how "the Gods" changed into "Yavanna". Let's take a look at the first quote from the Lost Road. The Gods made:
1.The Two Lamps
2.The Two Trees
3.The Sun and the Moon
----->why are the Two Trees the most renowned?
It is understandable that the Two Trees would be the most renowned work of Yavanna,but I'm not sure why of the Gods themselves. That's probably why Tolkien (dad or son) changed it.Oh well...

[gate7ole]

Originally posted by Lhunithiliel
"Early version", you say.... But it's also the original ;) And the initial, the original.... isn't it the best?
It may be more detailed, in places more satisfying but many ideas were probably passing by Tolkien's mind and later were dismissed. Whenever a later passage differs, I think it should be taken as the correct. The merit of the older passages is with the additions and not replacements.

I also find it interesting that Melkor attempted to destroy all lights that came into the world. He destroyed first the lamps, then the Trees (with the help of Ungoliant), and he then attempted to destoy the Moon but was foiled. He was unable to attempt to destroy the Sun for he no longer had the power.
Furthermore, we see the diminishing of his powers. He destroyed the lamps rather easily. With the Trees he needed the help of another evil spirit while with the Sun and Moon he failed.

6. We have two lamps and now two trees. Coincidence?
No coincidence here and I believe no mystic meanings. 2 is the most efficient number for such a purpose. It would provide this
blending of two lights and would be enough to cover the greater part of Arda (or whichever place it illuminated).

[Nóm]

Originally posted by ithrynluin
1) Because IT IS ARROGANT and a bit hypocritical even, since they themselves erred. That is MY opinion.

2)They want to be powerful AND CREATE THEIR OWN THINGS? So do elves,and especially the second part of your statement is much more typical of the elves
Yes, indeed men turn to evil more...let's take a look at how the Valar treated them: They were not herded and directed by Oromë or some other Vala or anyone at all!What greeted them when they awoke? Melkor's darkness and his deceits.
Luckily for the race of Men (and the conscience of the Valar), there was a certain fair-haired elf who showed the right path and provided guidance to the three kindreds of Men.
So most men ARE a grievance to Manwë,but whose fault is that?

And BTW,thank you for sharing those earlier versions of the texts with us Lhunithiliel!:)

1) The elves did not say that it was thier opinion that Manwe must have been grieved by men but that Manwe was grieved by men. If Manwe was, how is it hypocritical to say that?
So most men ARE a grievance to Manwë,but whose fault is that?
So you admit they are a grief to him, how is it then hyrocritical for the Eldar to speak this truth??
I do not believe the eldar said "it is men's fault that they are grief to Manwe".

2) Elves do not seak power in the way that men do, men like power just because it's power.
By create their own things maybe I should have said create things that are not in sync with the habbitation.
Actually the voice of Eru seems to have been the first thing the men heard when they awake, yeah even before Melkor or any other evil could reach them. The men didn't get a vala they got Iluvatar, and Iluvatar's advise to men was not followed! Or so this is all so if you beleive the tale of Adanel.

[Ithrynluin]

Originally posted by Nóm
1) The elves did not say that it was there opinion that Manwe must have been grieved by men but that Manwe was grieved by men. If Manwe was, how is it hypocritical to say that?

Read the quote I cited AGAIN.
But Ilúvatar knew that Men, being set amid the turmoils of the powers of the world, would stray often, and would not use their gifts in harmony; and he said: ''These too in their time shall find that all that they do redounds at the end only to the glory of my work.' Yet the Elves believe that Men are often a grief to Manwë, who knows most of the mind of Ilúvatar; for it seems to the Elves that Men resemble Melkor most of all the Ainur, although he has ever feared and hated them, even those that served him.


Yet the elves BELIEVE...That is their opinion. It's not "Manwë believes..." NOR "Manwë told the elves..." :rolleyes:
And therefore it is a bit hypocritical since they themselves weren't exactly "Mother Theresas" either...

Originally posted by Nóm

2) Elves do not seak power in the way that men do, men like power just because it's power.
By create their own things maybe I should have said create things that are not in sync with the habbitation.
Actually the voice of Eru seems to have been the first thing the men heard when they awake, yeah even before Melkor or any other evil could reach them. The men didn't get a vala they got Iluvatar, and Iluvatar's advise to men was not followed! Or so this is all so if you beleive the tale of Adanel.

Not in sync with the habitation? The craft of ring-making and its products, the 3 elven rings, were the VERY violation of the laws of nature. Trying to postpone the wearyness of the world and to mess with the way time flows. Tolkien says so himself,in one of the letters I believe.
Does it actually say somewhere that Eru "spoke" to Men upon their awakening? If not I am reluctant to accept that theory.

Originally posted by Nóm
So you admit they are a grief to him, how is it then hyrocritical for the Eldar to speak this truth??
I do not believe the eldar said "it is men's fault that they are grief to Manwe".

IF Men are indeed a grievance to Manwë it is his own fault for not guiding them and being there to protect them from the Shadow of Morgoth.

[gate7ole]

Originally posted by ithrynluin
IF Men are indeed a grievance to Manw¦Ë it is his own fault for not guiding them and being there to protect them from the Shadow of Morgoth.
What about Numenor? The ultimate downfall of Mankind? They were given all the blessing they wanter, they were guided by the Eldar of Tol Eressea, their home was hallowed by the Valar. Furthemore they were away from any shadow of Morgoth or Sauron. Yet the evil came from inside themselves.
It is the nature of Men to be susceptible to evil. If Manwe grieves it is because his standards were too high and Men didn't reach them, but Il¨²vatar knew it from the beginning:
But Il¨²vatar knew that Men, being set amid the turmoils of the powers of the world, would stray often, and would not use their gifts in harmony; and he said: ''These too in their time shall find that all that they do redounds at the end only to the glory of my work."

[Ithrynluin]

I am not saying that Men were not a cause of grief to Manwë. The downfall of Númenor is the best example of that,when Manwë gives up his guardianship/kingship of Arda and lets Eru solve the whole deal.
But nowhere is it stated for sure that Manwë himself thought so.
The Elves did really bad things also: When they disobeyed the Valar and left for Middle Earth in spite of the Valar counseling (or rather commanding) them not to do so? The kinslaying(s)? The terrible oath of Fëanor which dragged so many races into it and had unforeseeable consequences? Hmmmm....Do you think that the Valar as a whole (and Manwë as their king) were jumping with joy then???

My point? BOTH races were a grievance to the Powers at some point in time,so there is no use in saying Yet the Elves believe that Men are often a grief to Manwë, who knows most of the mind of Ilúvatar;
Either it should say that "both Men and Elves were a grievance to Manwë" or say nothing of the sort at all. Nuff said.

[Nóm]

Oh, sorry about that ithrynluin, I honestly had forgot that this was the belief of the elves and not stated by them as truth. I wasn't trying to twist facts or anything! :o
Though I think the elves may be correct in this belief, and you think that they are correct in this belief. I still to not see it as hypocrital if one assumes that it is true.
About Eru speaking to the men, the whole thing is a tale passed on among men, and is subject to being myth, also, it does not say right out "The voice of Eru" it only presents the story as though the voice were Iluvatar's. Though unless you've read and believe that this was Iluvatar's voice then the idea that he spoke to men before evil reached them means nothing.
I believe it though.

[Lhunithiliel]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have thought that a reading/discussion is just this - reading and discussing....but NOT debating.
So, Nym, take it easy! ;)

Anyway, reading through your debate, I'd say one thing - aren't you forgetting that whatever you read it has come from the mind of ONE person only? I see all these facts as a process of serching the truth and the essence of the human race, a process that was tormenting the mind of the Professor....I think that the whole mythology he created has this very purpose - to find out WHO are we? WHY are we here? Do we have some special PURPOSE? ....
So, to some extent I think that contrasting Men's doom against the favourable fate of the Elves and the "we-can-do-whatever-we-want" Gods, Tolkien just intended to provoke our own pride and wake up our own "lust" for good and perfection.... I think...:rolleyes:

Actually, the Elves, the Gods - both good and evil, all those creatures and even the sites and all the creations in that fairy world - aren't all of them "some strange mirror-reflections" of the true essence of a human's mind? Don't we have them IN us?

[Eöl]

My point? BOTH races were a grievance to the Powers at some point in time,so there is no use in saying "Yet the Elves believe that Men are often a grief to Manwë, who knows most of the mind of Ilúvatar"
Good point, for what small amount of guidance they had I would say that Men did much better overall. I mean the Elves were guided from the beginning but they repeatedly chose to ignore the Valar's request/commands and wandered aimlessly around Beleriand. And Feanor and the creation of the Silmarils, the light that was in them was the light of the Two Trees. If they had not been originally created by the Valar, he wouldn't have been able to create the Silmarillion. Yet he refused to share the light that was not even his to begin with! And his oath turned so much good to evil it is hard to believe. Also the idea of ring-making originated from the Elves. Rings bent natures laws to better please the Elves. Then, on the other hand we have Men. They started off pretty good, but soon fell to evil. They proved easier to dominate than the Eldar, yet there were always some who did not go to evil(the Numenoreans). In the end, even the Numenoreans fell to evil ways and destroyed themselves by setting sale into the West. So who is more evil?
I say they are equal.

[Maedhros]

"Early version", you say.... But it's also the original And the initial, the original.... isn't it the best?
Not necessarily true, take for example The Fall of Gondolin and compare it with Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin, to me there is really no comparison, the narrative Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin is way better IMO than that of The Fall of Gondolin in Bolt 2.
Having said that, there are many more in depth accounts of stories in Bolt than in the Silmarillion. An example of this is The Chaining of Melko, in there there is great detail given as to how he was captured, and to me it gives great insight into why Manwë is the noblest of the Ainur.
So, to some extent I think that contrasting Men's doom against the favourable fate of the Elves and the "we-can-do-whatever-we-want" Gods, Tolkien just intended to provoke our own pride and wake up our own "lust" for good and perfection.... I think...
I wouldn't say that the elves had a favourable fate. The elves envied men. The elves knew that in the end, that Men would be with the Ainur in the making of the new theme for Arda Healed, while their own fate was unknown. They were truly baffled by their own fate.
So most men ARE a grievance to Manwë,but whose fault is that?
Isn't it Manwë's fault? What did the Valar did when Men arrived in ME. Nothing. They left them under the influence of Melkor, so who deserted them in the first place?

[Nóm]

Were these among the maiar already in Arda, or from the Outer Void where Melkor had fled?
I wonder about this but I do not know the answer.

Why did the Valar not worry about Men during their battle with Melkor after the Elves awaken?
I had not thought about this before. The first thing to come mind is that they might have thought that men were so far east that they would not be harmed by this. :confused:


To me, the author seems to be condeming the actions of the Valar in inviting the Quendi to Aman. Do you think this echoes Tolkien's thoughts?
I don't read that as condemation. I would figure that maybe Tolkien was just stating an observation.

Also, this would seem to explain the reason the Valar aided men so little.
It could be one of the reasons.
We do read things elsewhere that give me the impression that after messing things up, the Valar would hesitate about taking actions with the firstborn, so this same reasoning may have applied to men.

[gate7ole]

by Nóm
We do read things elsewhere that give me the impression that after messing things up, the Valar would hesitate about taking actions with the firstborn, so this same reasoning may have applied to men.

You’re absolutely right. It is explicitly told in UT:
From UT: The Istari
And this the Valar did, desiring to amend the errors of old, especially that they had attempted to guard and seclude the Eldar by their own might and glory fully revealed; whereas now their emissaries were forbidden to reveal themselves in forms of majesty, or to seek to rule the wills of Men and Elves by open display of power, but coming in shapes weak and humble were bidden to advise and persuade Men and Elves to good, and to seek to unite in love and understanding all those whom Sauron, should he come again, would endeavour to dominate and corrupt.
The above quote explains a lot the seeming inaction of the Powers after the War of Wrath. They decided to step back and let the history roll, with only little of their guidance, fearing the errors of old, especially towards the much more rebellious Men.

But I think you start discussing subjects outside this chapter. Well, I can’t stop the relations between the various chapters.

[Nenya Evenstar]

I stumbled across this quote while reading through some posts last night. Grond originally posted it in the Religion Thread in The History of Middle Earth Forum. I found it interesting and thought that it might shed some light on the whole "were the Valar fair to the Secondborn of Iluvatar" issue. I know that this does not have much to do with the topic of our chapter, but given how this conversation has veered with the little debate, I think it's alright for me to post it.
from HoMe X, Morgoth's Ring, Athrabeth of Finrod and Andreth
The 'Tale of Adanel'

Then Andreth being urged by Finrod said at last: 'This is the tale
that Adanel of the House of Hador told to me.'

Some say the Disaster happened at the beginning of the history of our people, before any had yet died. The Voice had spoken to us, and we had listened. The Voice said: 'Ye are my children. I have sent you to dwell here. In time ye will inherit all this Earth, but first ye must be children and learn. Call on me and I shall hear; for I am watching over you.'

We understood the Voice in our hearts, though we had no words yet. Then the desire for words awoke in us, and we began to make them. But we were few, and the world was wide and strange. Though we greatly desired to understand, learning was difficult, and the making of words was slow.

In that time we called often and the Voice answered. But it seldom answered our questions, saying only: 'First seek to find the answer for yourselves. For ye will have joy in the finding, and so grow from childhood and become wise. Do not seek to leave childhood before your time.'

But we were in haste, and we desired to order things to our will; and the shapes of many things that we wished to make awoke in our minds. Therefore we spoke less and less to the voice.

Then one appeared among us, in our own form visible, but greater and more beautiful; and he said that he had come out of pity. 'Ye should not have been left alone and uninstructed,' he said. 'The world is full of marvellous riches which knowledge can unlock. Ye could have food more abundant and more delicious than the poor things that ye now eat. Ye could have
dwellings of ease, in which ye could keep light and shut out the night. Ye could be clad even as I.'

Then we looked and lo! he was clad in raiment that shone like silver and gold, and he had a crown on his head, and gems in his hair. 'If ye wish to be like me,' he said, 'I will teach you.' Then we took him as teacher.

He was less swift than we had hoped to teach us how to find, or to make for ourselves, the things that we desired, though he had awakened many desires in our hearts. But if any doubted or were impatient, he would bring and set before us all that we wished for. 'I am the Giver of Gifts,' he said; 'and the gifts shall never fail as long as ye trust me.'

Therefore we revered him, and we were enthralled by him; and we depended upon his gifts, fearing to return to a life without them that now seemed poor and hard. And we believed all that he taught. For we were eager to know about the world and its being: about the beasts and birds, and the plants that grew in the Earth; about our own making; and about the lights of heaven, and the countless stars, and the Dark in which they are set.

All that he taught seemed good, for he had great knowledge. But ever more and more he would speak of the Dark. 'Greatest of all is the Dark,' he said, 'for It has no bounds. I came out of the Dark, but I am Its master. For I have made Light. I made the Sun and the Moon and the countless stars. I will protect you from the Dark, which else would devour you.'

Then we spoke of the Voice. But his face became terrible; for he was angry. 'Fools!' he said. 'That was the Voice of the Dark. It wishes to keep you from me; for It is hungry for you.'

Then he went away, and we did not see him for a long time, and without his gifts we were poor. And there came a day when suddenly the Sun's light began to fail, until it was blotted out and a great shadow fell on the world; and all the beasts and birds were afraid. Then he came again, walking through the shadow like a bright fire.

We fell upon our faces. 'There are some among you who are still listening to the Voice of the Dark,' he said, 'and therefore It is drawing nearer. Choose now! Ye may have the Dark as Lord, for ye may have Me. But unless ye take Me for Lord and swear to serve Me, I shall depart and leave you; for I have other realms and dwelling places, and I do not need the Earth, nor you.'

Then in fear we spoke as he commanded, saying: 'Thou art the Lord; Thee only we will serve. The Voice we abjure and will not hearken to it again.'

'So be it!' he said. 'Now build Me a house upon a high place, and call it the House of the Lord. Thither I will come when I will. There ye shall call on Me and make your petitions to Me.' And when we had built a great house, he came and stood before the high seat, and the house was lit as with fire. 'Now,' he said, 'come forth any who still listen to the Voice!'

There were some, but for fear they remained still and said naught. 'Then bow before Me and acknowledge Me!' he said. And all bowed to the ground before him, saying: 'Thou art the One Great, and we are Thine.'

Thereupon he went up as in a great flame and smoke, and we were scorched by the heat. But suddenly he was gone, and it was darker than night; and we fled from the House. Ever after we went in great dread of the Dark; but he seldom appeared among us again in fair form, and he brought few gifts.

If at great need we dared to go to the House and pray to him to help us, we heard his voice, and received his commands. But now he would always command us to do some deed, or to give him some gift, before he would listen to our prayer; and ever the deeds became worse, and the gifts harder to give up.

The first Voice we never heard again, save once. In the stillness of the night It spoke, saying: 'Ye have abjured Me, but ye remain Mine. I gave you life. Now it shall be shortened, and each of you in a little while shall come to Me, to learn who is your Lord: the one ye worship, or I who made him.'
So, Iluvatar was there for the Secondborn the entire time. Perhaps the Valar aren't to blame for their seeming in-action.

[Gil-Galad]

1. I wonder if Tulkas got bored after his battles with Melkor? He wasn't in love with Arda as the other Valar were, and it seems to me that he's reason to come to it was to fight Melkor, (he ended up marrying Nessa)
I think he would get bored if he don't have any work to do after defeating Melkor.But there are still lots of enemies-Sauron,Balrogs,Dragons, and probably Tulkas would enjoy fighting with them.The problem is what would he do when he defeat them too?
3. It seems that when the Valar battle, Arda is altered. Arda is marred, but will Arda unmarred be better than Arda Healed?
I think Arda Healed is better.When you live in a perfect world you cannot assess it in the right way.But when you know what evil is,when know what unhappiness is you CAN assess what you have got.
. Isn't this wrong, to leave the most of ME unprotected of Melkor and isolate yourself? Aren't the Valar responsible for the whole of Arda and not just Aman?
No.Once they were "surpised"by Melkor.At the same time they cannot protect the whole ME.So the best idea is to fortify a place where you can be save and think carefully what to do.And from them you can decide what to do.
For long, Melkor had the upper hand against all the other Valar. Did Tulkas alone cause Melkor to flee? Or did he simply tip the balance? How was Melkor more powerful than all the other Valar combined
Melkor had the upper hand against all the other Valar bacause he had abilities in all fields of evil.At the same time none of the Valar was a "professional" warrior.And then came Tulkas.A Vala whose only aim is to fight and defeat all his enemies,that is why Melkor had to step back,he couldn't oppose a real warrior.

[Nenya Evenstar]

I think he would get bored if he don't have any work to do after defeating Melkor.But there are still lots of enemies-Sauron,Balrogs,Dragons, and probably Tulkas would enjoy fighting with them.The problem is what would he do when he defeat them too?
I am still not convinced that Tulkas would have been bored. After all, didn't he come from a place where there was no fighting? I cannot imagine Eru creating a Maia whose only one a true joy was in fighting and killing - especially given what Eru had in mind in the beginning for the world. So, since Tulkas was undoubtedly not bored when next to Eru in The One's Halls, then why would he be bored when resting in the gardens of Lorien in Valinor?

[Gil-Galad]

Originally posted by Nenya Evenstar
I am still not convinced that Tulkas would have been bored. After all, didn't he come from a place where there was no fighting? I cannot imagine Eru creating a Maia whose only one a true joy was in fighting and killing - especially given what Eru had in mind in the beginning for the world. So, since Tulkas was undoubtedly not bored when next to Eru in The One's Halls, then why would he be bored when resting in the gardens of Lorien in Valinor?
A Maia?Of course he would like resting in the gardens of lorien in Valinor but not forever.Fighting is his nature,that is why Melkor have to step back.And when something is someone's nature he cannot change himself.I doubt a person who loves fighting would like to resting throughout whole his life.

[Nenya Evenstar]

And he did not rest forever. He was busy for quite some time, if I remember correctly. Also, there are some referrences given where Tulkus is only too ready for a break. I think that he probably got a pleasant mix of what he wanted. One thing is that if he enjoyed fighting so much why did he simply stay in Valinor during the entire second and third ages of the world? That was his decision. I think that he must have enjoyed fighting, but he also knew the wholesomness and necessity of rest.

[Gil-Galad]

Originally posted by Nenya Evenstar
. One thing is that if he enjoyed fighting so much why did he simply stay in Valinor during the entire second and third ages of the world?
He was probably waiting for the final battle between good and evil,for the end of days.If it was so I would say he stayed in Valinor just because he knew other battles would come.And also the entire second and third ages weren't so long period for him in Valinor.

[Ingwë]

1. I wonder if Tulkas got bored after his battles with Melkor? He wasn't in love with Arda as the other Valar were, and it seems to me that he's reason to come to it was to fight Melkor, (he ended up marrying NessaI donät think he would got bored. He is a fighter. He wasnät in love with Adra but he hates Melkor and his creatures. He won't leave Arda while the Evil exist

3. It seems that when the Valar battle, Arda is altered. Arda is marred, but will Arda unmarred be better than Arda Healed? Arda is already marred. It cannot be unmarred but it can be healed. They will know what is good and what isn't good for Arda because they have seen it destroyed and 'clear'

4. Isn't this wrong, to leave the most of ME unprotected of Melkor and isolate yourself? Aren't the Valar responsible for the whole of Arda and not just Aman I think that's wrong. They must heal Middle earth and dwell there again :) It was better to heal your own. But leaving ME was act of desperation

5. Again, is Arda Unmarred better than Arda Healed? Can Valinor be considered Arda Healed? I think Valinor is unmarred Arda, not Healed. Valinor is the Arda that the Valar wanted to create.

6. We have two lamps and now two trees. Coincidence? The Two Trees, Laurelin and Telperion, are substitutes of the Lamps, but better ones. The Trees are related to the Nature - that's better

7. If that is so, then why do they isolated themselves by creating the Pelóri? They didn't isolate themselves. They just protected themselves. Perhaps they didn't want to be attacked again.