Wonko The Sane
11-25-2002, 10:25 PM
originally posted by Proudfoots on the "Greatest Sword" discussion thread:
Wonko, there is a reason you see the similarity between Goodkind and Tolkien, it is the same reason that 'the Sword of Shannara' story almost mimiced lotr page for page...
It is because most modern fantasy authors can't get away from tolkien, they can't break the mould that he set
1-Little innocent bears the weight of being chosen for a certain, seemingly impossible task
2-He is joined by a group, some are innocent like himself, others are experienced warriors and wizards who guide him on his quest
3-many Strange adventures
4-Help from unseen quarters
5-Somebody is revealed as the heir to something
6-Big battle where the goodguys are horribly outnumbered but manage, mainly because they are goodguys and their warriors are better, win through in the end
7-the quest is completed when it seems to be an utter failure
8-Reward is given to the hero
ad um infinitum
'foots
Alright, I'd like to open this discussion by saying that Proudfoots brings up an excellent point: Tolkien's work and themes are present in most major works of fantasy today.
However I would disagree that this is necessarily because authors just can't steer away from Tolkien.
Tolkien's themes are universal to the extent that they have always been present in litearature, and there is nothing intrinsically unique about Tolkien's themes, though the vehicles in which he delivers them are entirely his own.
The themes of magic, strange adventures, quests, power being given to the most unlikely, reward to the hero, victory in war against great odds, etc are all basic themes present throughout time.
It can be traced back in time to such ancient Greek works such as Oedipus Rex. He inherited the throne of his father, which was seemingly unlikely considering he knew not who his true father was, and thought himself to be merely a poor peasant. In this way Richard (from SoT) is exactly the same, growing up and leading a simple life with those he believed erroneously be his family and later receiving the rule of an entire nation.
One could not say that Sophocles was influenced by Tolkien as Tolkien was not born when Sophocles wrote the play.
I do concede that the simliarty between the Beornings and Brophy, a man changed into a wolf by a wizard, but that's one of the most concrete connections between Goodkind and Tolkien that I can see.
Another is the similiarties between Richard's Sword of Truth and Gurthang. The SoT is blood hungry, nearly sentient, and bonds strongly to The Seeker who wields it. So is true for Gurthang. I believe that Goodkind may have been influenced by Tolkien in this instance, but not necessarily.
Truth is that most of these themes and aspects appear all over literature. Personally I found more similiarities between SoT and Star Wars than I did between it and LotR, but parallels can be drawn between SW and LotR as well.
I do not believe that SoT is as similiar to Tolkien as Proudfoots believes because Goodkind could not break Tolkien's mould, but rather because the mould Tolkien used was already set into man's collective consciousness.
Wonko, there is a reason you see the similarity between Goodkind and Tolkien, it is the same reason that 'the Sword of Shannara' story almost mimiced lotr page for page...
It is because most modern fantasy authors can't get away from tolkien, they can't break the mould that he set
1-Little innocent bears the weight of being chosen for a certain, seemingly impossible task
2-He is joined by a group, some are innocent like himself, others are experienced warriors and wizards who guide him on his quest
3-many Strange adventures
4-Help from unseen quarters
5-Somebody is revealed as the heir to something
6-Big battle where the goodguys are horribly outnumbered but manage, mainly because they are goodguys and their warriors are better, win through in the end
7-the quest is completed when it seems to be an utter failure
8-Reward is given to the hero
ad um infinitum
'foots
Alright, I'd like to open this discussion by saying that Proudfoots brings up an excellent point: Tolkien's work and themes are present in most major works of fantasy today.
However I would disagree that this is necessarily because authors just can't steer away from Tolkien.
Tolkien's themes are universal to the extent that they have always been present in litearature, and there is nothing intrinsically unique about Tolkien's themes, though the vehicles in which he delivers them are entirely his own.
The themes of magic, strange adventures, quests, power being given to the most unlikely, reward to the hero, victory in war against great odds, etc are all basic themes present throughout time.
It can be traced back in time to such ancient Greek works such as Oedipus Rex. He inherited the throne of his father, which was seemingly unlikely considering he knew not who his true father was, and thought himself to be merely a poor peasant. In this way Richard (from SoT) is exactly the same, growing up and leading a simple life with those he believed erroneously be his family and later receiving the rule of an entire nation.
One could not say that Sophocles was influenced by Tolkien as Tolkien was not born when Sophocles wrote the play.
I do concede that the simliarty between the Beornings and Brophy, a man changed into a wolf by a wizard, but that's one of the most concrete connections between Goodkind and Tolkien that I can see.
Another is the similiarties between Richard's Sword of Truth and Gurthang. The SoT is blood hungry, nearly sentient, and bonds strongly to The Seeker who wields it. So is true for Gurthang. I believe that Goodkind may have been influenced by Tolkien in this instance, but not necessarily.
Truth is that most of these themes and aspects appear all over literature. Personally I found more similiarities between SoT and Star Wars than I did between it and LotR, but parallels can be drawn between SW and LotR as well.
I do not believe that SoT is as similiar to Tolkien as Proudfoots believes because Goodkind could not break Tolkien's mould, but rather because the mould Tolkien used was already set into man's collective consciousness.