Superly Serious And Smart Type Discussions About Middle Earth Outcasts!

[YayGollum]

The title is pretty self explanatory, I think. oh well. This would be to talk about whatever crazy Middle Earth Outcasts you know of. Some might disagree about who's really a Middle Earth Outcast. We could use this thread to find out which character would best represent us. I don't know. Here's a whole bunch of Outcasts that I feel sorry for. Melkor, Ungoliant, Aule, Eol, Mim, ummm...Smeagol. Probably more. Who are your favorites? You know. Any kind of discussions about Middle Earth Outcasts would work.

[mr underhill]

tom bombails sort of an outcast and sam gamgee in the movies the biggest idiot ive ever seen....

[Courtney]

At first Strider is an outcast... everyone in Bree thinks he is creepy.

[EverEve]

Frodo in the end becomes an outcast...everybody in the Shire ignores him and thinks he's "odd"..

[Nóm]

Melkor is my favorite of those you named. I don't like him but I sympathize with him and I think Iluvatar used him.
He was denied the opportunity to use his greatness, and was put to shame for being a step above the other Ainur.
I think only Iluvatar understood what Melkor was capable of, and Melkor was not appreciated as the other lesser Ainur were.

[YayGollum]

There we go! A discussion has started! Yeah, those other guys are Outcasts, too. We'll get to them sometime. Anyways, about Mel, I'd say, Yikes! I don't think he was denied the opportunity to use greatness. He did use it, but just in a bad way. He was an Outcast because he was being evil before Middle Earth was even around. I mostly feel sorry for him because he only became evil after he was rejected by that stinky Elbereth lady, and was ignored by everyone else. Very sad. I don't have the book with me, but it says something about because he was alone, he went off and came up with that evil stuff. If only somebody had walked up to him and said, "'Sup, dude? How's about we sing about a giant turtle named Fastitocalon?" :D

[Elfarmari]

Are non-members allowed to participate? If not, sorry!
Originally posted by YayGollum
Very sad. I don't have the book with me, but it says something about because he was alone, he went off and came up with that evil stuff. If only somebody had walked up to him and said, "'Sup, dude? How's about we sing about a giant turtle named Fastitocalon?" :D
I'm sure if someone would have said that, Melkor would never have been evil. . . .:D
I think Melkor is a self-made outcast, while still in the halls of Eru he chose to go out into the void, trying to find the secret fire (I think that's why. . .). Manwe had just as much power to begin with, I believe, and he wasn't ostracized and didn't turn evil.
Does anyone know who Eol was (before he married Maeglin's mom)? I know he's the 'dark elf', but really don't know what that means. Was he just extremely anti-social? or was he evil?

[YayGollum]

Argh! I'm just showing you what reason the book gave for why he became evil. We don't know if he still might have become evil if he did get a friend at the beginning. oh well. I think that The Sil. definitely says somewhere that Mel was the biggest and the bestest, and that Aule was next, and that Manwe was just the teacher's pet, but oh well. Yeah, Mel definitely decided to be evil in the beginning. I already gave the reason why, and it had nothing to do with his power or his curiosity. Poor guy.
Yeah, I know about Eol. He was one of those Teleri dudes. Hung out with that Thingol dude before he ran into that stinky Melian lady and she put that weird force field thingy around that forest of theirs. He probably was anti-social. Nothing wrong with that. We're all Outcasts here. He didn't want to stay cooped up in that forest, so he went off to find his own place. Nothing evil about that. He was only a Dark elf because he hung out in some dark forest, and he didn't really like light for some reason. I have no idea why, but what's so evil about that? oh well. Poor guy. He's cool.

[YayGollum]

Oo! Looks like we're having all kinds of fun with superly serious and smart type discussions! :rolleyes: Anyone? Or should I start something of my own?

[Froggum]

Perhaps a new topic?

[YayGollum]

Got it. What does everyone think about Gollum? just so I'll know who to look out for. :D

[Froggum]

Gollum rocks! Especially because my sister's afeared of him.
*evil laughter*

But I kinda have a soft spot for him. I mean, everyone uses him for their own ends. He's a person, too. Or he used to be, now he's kind of a thing... but anywho, part of the reason he is the way he is is because no one liked him even before he got all scary-looking. So he climbed into a little cave and went kinda crazy. Wouldn't you?

Anyway, that's my 2 metallic portraits of Lincoln.

[EverEve]

Gollum...Well, I've sorta gotz mixed feelings about him. On one hand, he's evil, and kills babies and steals things, and on the other hand, the poor dude has been mistreated, corrupted, and used...for almost his entire life. So, I could go either way, but if I really had to choose, I would say that the poor guy's wicked awesome and I can like him.

[Froggum]

Woo-hoo! Friends of Gollum, unite!

[HobbitGirl]

I feel sorry for poor Gollum throughout the whole book...EXCEPT...when he betrayed Frodo and Sam to Shelob. That was a downright slimy thing to do. I know he had his motives...the Ring, for instance...but still...

[YayGollum]

But still, why would you want to make it sound so negative? He just asked his friend to put these nasssty hobbitses to sleep so he could get his security blanket back. Contrary to popular belief, this friend of his was not planning on eating the nasssty hobbitses. She was just helping poor Smeagol out by harmlessly putting them to sleep so he could feel safe again. No big bad betrayal. :D

[Mindy_O_Lluin]

Where did you find this 'alternate universe' version of the LOTR that you've been reading?

But really, I think of Gollum as like those heartless criminals who do bad things because they didn't get the love of their mother, or are too nerdy or ugly to find a girlfriend, or whatever other case you can think of where a person feels totally alone, un-loved and desperate. That might drive anyone to evil and revenge for the rejection.

[Froggum]

But really, I think of Gollum as like those heartless criminals who do bad things because they didn't get the love of their mother, or are too nerdy or ugly to find a girlfriend, or whatever other case you can think of where a person feels totally alone, un-loved and desperate. That might drive anyone to evil and revenge for the rejection.

or join the Guild of Outcasts...

[YayGollum]

Yay! I mean, ummm...okay. :rolleyes: What alternate universe are you talking about, crazy Mindy person? It's not like TTT ever actually says what Shelob's intentions were. :D

[HobbitGirl]

But The Two Towers does say what Her intentions were, and Smeagol's too.


But still she was there, who was there before Sauron, and before the first stone of Barad-dur; and she served none but herself, drinking the blood of Elves and Men, bloated and grown fat with endless brooding on her feasts, weaving webs of shadow; for all living things were her food, and her vomit darkness.


"It may well be, O yes, it may well be that when She throws away throws away the bones and the empty garments, we shall find it, we shall get it, the Precious, a reward for poor Smeagol who brings nice food."


See?

[EverEve]

Lol. Wow you guyz. Yay, I hate to admit it, but I think Mindy's got you beaten there. Sorry ;)

[YayGollum]

No, Mindy didn't beat me. That was the scary HobbitGirl person. oh well. Shhh!!! Don't show anyone else that quote! :rolleyes:

[EverEve]

Whoops! sorry bout that, HG! I swear that was what I meant!

[YayGollum]

oh well. It is a fun thing to say when people don't have quotes. :D

[HobbitGirl]

I hate to get off topic and all, but out of curiosity-

why am I scary, Yay?

[YayGollum]

I don't mean anything by it. I'm always calling people scary or crazy or evil. No offense.

[munchkin]

trust me, he does. I've been called every single one of those too!!!!!!:D

[Myrrien]

He always calls me crazy Hobbitgirl so consider it a compliment. (And he doesn't even know who I am here.) Don't change the subject Yay I'm finding the fact that someone has so seriously trounced you quite entertaining.

Perfect candidate for an Outcast, Finrod because he gave up his kingdom and his people to help out a friend and died as a result.

[YayGollum]

Argh! Maybe I should give everyone their own adjective so it'll be easier for me to remember people! :rolleyes: oh well. Yeah, I'm sure that everyone loves to see someone as evil and stubborn as me get proved wrong, but oh well.
Let me see here. Evil, stinky, boring, heroic, and all around nice guy Finrod is an Outcast just because he gave up his kingdom to help a friend? Isn't that just another way to say that he got tired of responsibility? Okay, he can be an Outcast. :D But I wouldn't say that he was the Outcast to model all Outcasts after. Aren't most more disliked? oh well. Maybe I'm just crazy.

[munchkin]

Can I be evil??????

[YayGollum]

Ack! Asking for that just makes me want to call you crazy! :rolleyes:

[munchkin]

Yay! Im crazy!!!

[HobbitGirl]

Noo, I didn't take any offense. I've been called worse. I was just curious...I always do stuff like that, for example if the evil popular people call me a psyco, I'll say, "Well, why do you say that?" or "What proof do you have of my insanity?" It's just a me thing. :D:D

Anyways, 'bout Finrod...um, I don't really have an oppinion about him, I was kinda zoned out when I read that part, so I don't remember much. :D

[munchkin]

Thats his thing. Thats what makes Yay Yay!

[The-Elf-Herself]

I consider being called crazy a compliment, along the lines of being called nuts, insane, or evil. I consider totally sane people to be quite boring most of the time, insanity is the spice of life. *Adds that to her sig* Anyways, Finrod could be considered an Outcast simply because he was friends with basically everyone, which was completely unheard of. It's hardly his fault that he had a high birth, had he been your average elf and still carried those traits he woud be an outcast simply because of it. I think he got humored sometimes because of this whole general good-will thing, most other elves, despite holding him in high esteem, prolly thought he was a bit strange for all this.

[munchkin]

I like being called crazy and evil also.

[YayGollum]

Huh. Yeah, I guess that's a nice way to look at the Finrod dude. I'm just evil and prejudiced against elves because they're just so popular. Sure, if Finrod wasn't royalty, he'd be more of an Outcast, but it's just too bad for him that he was royalty. People respected him and were fans of him and admired him and all kinds of other craziness. He was a good example. He was an all around good guy, which is why I'm not a fan. If he was an average joe type guy who just decided to be nice to everybody, he'd still be liked, but he'd just be a little weird, wouldn't he? oh well. Maybe I'm just being stubborn. :eek: :rolleyes: