Quenya Lessons

[gate7ole]

The procedure I believe we should follow is the following. First I will provide the summary of the lesson. Also, I have made a few exercises and along with the given exercises of the course, they should be sufficient . I will post a few at the time and everyone will be welcome to give some answers. In order to work out, we shouldn’t rush and give all answers at once. Let many people be able to participate. Questions about the lesson as well as other remarks are welcome, too. We will try to cope with any problem that may arise, together.

This first lesson doesn’t deal with any complex issues and also our vocabulary is very limited. So I couldn’t find many interesting exercises. As the lessons advance, I’m sure we will do better (and start the translation game).

[gate7ole]

This is a summary of the first lesson. It contains the most important points of the Lesson 2 of the course we’re following. Anyone who doesn’t have the time to read the whole passage, can use this summary (but risking to ignore some minor points that I have omitted). But the most important use of this summary is for a quick reference.
In the following passage the symbol ~ is used to give the translation when necessary.

LESSON I: Nouns. Plural form. The article.

Nouns:
The nouns in Quenya come in hundreds of different forms. They can receive many endings that express various meanings (e.g the plural, words like “of, for, with”, onwership). In comparison the English language has only four forms: the single and plural form, the ownership form (‘s) and the combination of plural and ownership.
Example:
máryat which means “her hands”.
Here there are two endings:
i)-rya- that shows ownership (meaning “her”)
ii)the final -t which denotes a pair of something.


Plural form:
There are 2 kinds of plural in Quenya
a) The first is formed by adding the ending -li to the noun.
e.g. Eldali (from Elda)
Unfortunately the function of this plural is not fully understood. It is possible that it can be interpreted as “many” or “some” of the things in question. So, Eldali may mean “several Elves”. Lacking more information about this plural, it will not be studied further.
b) There is a second and “normal” plural. It is also formed by adding an ending to the noun. There are two occasions:
i) Nouns ending in any of the four vowels -a, -o, -i, or –u plus nouns ending in the group -ië, get the ending -r.
Examples:
Elda -> Eldar
Vala -> Valar
quendi -> quentir (~Elf-woman)
Ainu -> Ainur
Noldo -> Noldor
Valië -> Valier (~ female Vala)
ii) Nouns ending in any consonant or in the vowel -e, get the ending -i.
Quendë-> Quendi
vendë -> vendi (~ maiden)
elen -> eleni (~ star)
Atan -> Atani
Casar -> Casari (~ Dwarf)

Observation: The diairesis “¨” is only used when the letter e is final. So, if the word gets an ending, the diairesis is lost (as with Valië -> Valier).

Every rule has some exceptions. Here exceptions occur with some nouns ending with -ë, whose plural doesn’t follow the general rule of adding the -i.
Examples:
tyellë -> tyeller (~ grade)
mallë -> maller (~ road)
Also some nouns have been found in both plural forms:
Ingwë ->Ingwer and Ingwi


The article:
Quenya has only one article, which corresponds to the definite article “the” of English. This article is the word i.
Examples:
i eleni (~ the stars)
i mar (~ the earth)

There is no need for indefinite article. The lack of an article in Quenya implies the indefinite status of the corresponding noun.
Example:
Elen síla lúmenn’ omentielvo (~ A star shine upon the hour of our meeting)
Here the interpretation of the phrase uses the indefinite article “a”, while the Quenya phrase has no article at all, but simply elen (~ star)

Articles are NOT used with proper names. E.g. Anar (~Sun) and Isil (~Moon) are considered proper nouns and don’t take an article.

Also, words denoting an entire people do not use an article.
Example:
Eldar nar vanyë (~ Elves are beautiful)
If the word Eldar takes an article then it refers to a group of the Eldar
Example:
I Eldar nar vanyë (~ The Elves are beautiful – referring to a particular group of elves, not all the race)


Vocabulary:
At the end of every lesson there will be introduced a group of 12 words that will consist the “proper” vocabulary learnt so far. Those will be the only words that are required to memorize as the lessons advance.
minë ~ one
Anar ~ Sun
Isil ~ Moon
ar ~ and
Elda ~ Elf
lië ~ people (an entire “ethnic group” or even race)
vendë ~ maiden
rocco ~ horse (specifically “swift horse for riding”)
aran ~ king
tári ~ queen
tasar ~ willow
nu ~ under

[gate7ole]

1. Form the plural of the following words:
alda, anto, cirya, harma, macil, mornië, nóme, rassë, sangwa, seler, toron

2. Find if there is a mistake in the next phrases:
A. i ohtari (ohtar ~ warrior)
B. i aran ar roccor
C. i Isil ar i Anar
D. minë liër nu aran
E. i malli (mallë ~ road)
F. i eldar nu i aran (where aran is a particular king)
G. minë tári ar i vender

3. Which of the following words are in plural?
Quendi, tier, casar, eleni, anar, nér, lasser


4. Pair the words from the two lists:
(optional exercise that uses extra words outside the vocabulary from the Lesson 2)
i tier the star
maller languages
lassë the Earth
i elen the lifebread
i-mar the paths
i-coimas roads
parmar leaf
lambi her hands
máryat books

5. Translate into English:
A. Roccor
B. Aran (two possible English translations!)
C. I rocco.
D. I roccor.
E. Arani.
F. Minë lië nu minë aran.
G. I aran ar i tári.
H. Vendi.

6. Translate into Quenya:
A. Willows.
B. Elves.
C. The kings.
D. Peoples.
E. The horse under (or, below) the willow.
F. A maiden and a queen.
G. The queen and the maidens.
H. The Sun and the Moon

[Elennainie]

1. Form the plural of the following words:
I'll just take the first two, so every gets a turn, like Gate7ole suggested.

Alda plural is Aldar

Anto plural is Antor

[Elennainie]

Sorry, I should have said this first: Thanks, Gate7ole, for the excellent summary and exercises!!! :) :D

There is a game started on the original "Common Quenya Course" thread as well. I'll post on that thread that there is a new thread. I didn't see this new one at first.

Btw, the translation of alda is "tree" and anto is "mouth".

[Húrin Thalion]

Thank you Gate7Ole for taking time t make this excellent summary and exercises. I will now follow with two of the words:

Cirya becomes Ciryar in plura and Harma becomes Harmar.

They mean ship and treasure.

Elen

[Calimehtar]

--------------------------------
macil - macili - 'sword'
mornie - mornier - 'darkness'
--------------------------------


Thanks for the summary!

__________________
Cody T.
Bilbos Bane
CodyT8083 - AOL

[Finrod]

Is there a complete course of Quenya available?

Is it a real language?

[Húrin Thalion]

Yes there is a beginners course which we are studying right now and you may join us but then you'll have to read up chapter two, not one in lesson a. Check up the thread common quenya course to see link to Ardalambion's web course. And yest it is a language, Tolkien did not create a language for his world, he created a world for his languages.

Welcome to the forum Finrod

Húrin Thalion

[Finrod]

Are there declensions or conjugations in Quenya( as in Latin)?

What is the purpose of the plural form for a word like darkness, is it darknesses?

(hopefully it isn't a stupid question)

yes I know you are thinking" there are no stupid questions, just stupid people";)

[Elennainie]

Tolkien did not create a language for his world, he created a world for his languages. Nicely put, Hurin! :)

Finrod, I PM'ed you about the course.

Gate7ole, I have a question about #3. My question is, should we be able to tell from the endings on the words themselves whether or not they are plural without knowing the vocabulary word already? (For example, on "casar", we wouldn't know if the word already ended in "r" in the singular.) I don't think we can tell if they are plural unless we already know the vocab. word, but I wanted to make sure I hadn't missed something in the lesson. Thanks.

Anyone up for the next two answers to Gate7ole's exercises?

[gate7ole]

Originally posted by Elennainie
Gate7ole, I have a question about #3. My question is, should we be able to tell from the endings on the words themselves whether or not they are plural without knowing the vocabulary word already? (For example, on "casar", we wouldn't know if the word already ended in "r" in the singular.) I don't think we can tell if they are plural unless we already know the vocab. word, but I wanted to make sure I hadn't missed something in the lesson. Thanks.


You're right that the 3rd exercise needs more than grammar knowledge. We can't know if an ending is because of the plural form or not. I guess experience will be needed in such occasions


P.S. I added another exercise of mine, as well as the exercises of the course to discuss them together.

[Elennainie]

Cool - even more exercises! You are a good chapter leader, Gate7ole!! :)

Since you added some more, I'll go ahead with two more.

#2:
C. i Isil ar i Anar..........the mistake is that "i" is not needed before proper nouns, and Isil and Anar are proper nouns in Quenya.

D. minë liër nu aran..........the mistake is that "liër" is plural and "minë" (one) does not agree with a plural noun. As it is written, it says "one peoples under a king", which doesn't make sense. Lië, the singular form of the noun "people" should be used instead. Also, lië plural is lier, not liër. The diaresis drops off because the "e" is no longer final.

[Húrin Thalion]

The I'll take the last three in exercise 2 then:

E. i malli (mallë ~ road) This is entirely correct, means "the roads".


F. i eldar nu i aran (where aran is a particular king) Correct, meaning "The elves under the king".

G. minë tári ar i vender. This is not correct since the word Vendë becomes vendi in plural. If correct it would mean: "A queen and her maidens".

About the third and fourth exercise: I can solve a few of them but as G7O and Elenainnie have pointed out I do not think that we should use words that are outside of our vocabulary.

Goodbye for tonight, the clock is 23:15 here and I start early tomorrow morning. (Early for me is 9:00).

Húrin Thalion

[gate7ole]

Originally posted by Húrin Thalion
E. i malli (mallë ~ road) This is entirely correct, means "the roads".


I'm sorry but as your professor I must say that this sentence has an error and it is not correct. The noun "mallë" is irregular and its plural is maller, despite the general rule.

[Húrin Thalion]

Oh you are right. thank you, I was probably thinking of Swedish where we add R to alll vowles to get plural.

Is there not anyone else who will continue?

Húrin

[Elennainie]

About the third and fourth exercise: I can solve a few of them but as G7O and Elenainnie have pointed out I do not think that we should use words that are outside of our vocabulary. Actually, I was just trying to figure out if I had missed something in the lesson. I don't mind using a few extra vocabulary words for exercises in this lesson, since our vocab. is so limited right now. ;)

[gate7ole]

One more simple "exercise". After reading this chapter, I finally understood what does our famous book means.
So, what does "Quenta Silmarillion" mean exactly?
Hints: the -on endings means "of" and Quenta means "tale"

[Elennainie]

So, what does "Quenta Silmarillion" mean exactly?

Would that be "Tale of the Silmarils" ?

[Lhunithiliel]

"Tale of or better about the Silmarils"

But can someone say how the word "Silmaril" has been formed? What's its meaning?

[Elennainie]

The Quneya word Silmarilli is said to derive from the name silima that Feanor gave to the substance from which they were made. from the Sil. Names Appendix

Also from the Appendix: "sil" to shine (with white or silver light); the moon, Isil comes from this same stem

[Nóm]

Originally posted by Elennainie
from the Sil. Names Appendix

Also from the Appendix: "sil" to shine (with white or silver light); the moon, Isil comes from this same stem
I think that can also be 'silma'. If you take a look in the etymologies in The Lost Road,then 'ril' - glitter, and (maybe: rilya - glitterng light).

Does anyone know anything about the way these words silma and ril are put together? Does 'ma' have a purpose all it's own?
I think that will be the key to understanding the word Simaril.
I would expect something like:
"white light that glitters"?
or "glittering white light"
?
By the way, the next one:
i eldar nu i aran - hmm maybe "i elda nu i aran" is what you are looking for? I really have no idea.

It seems correct to me as is.
"The elves under the king" Unless it is the name of a king in which case it should be "The Eldar under (King's name)"?

I hadn't answered because I'm not sure and I still haven't read the chapter. I'm just finishing that introduction about the languages. I was able to figure out most of the ones before this though, so I have learned a little. :D Just wanted to let you guys know that I have been keeping a watch on the thread!

[Elennainie]

"glittering white light" OOOh, this sounds pretty!!!:D Tolkien's language is so elegant.

Just wanted to let you guys know that I have been keeping a watch on the thread!
Glad to see you are still with us on the Quenya course, Nom. :) Don't worry about catching up being difficult. Lesson 2 & 3 are pretty easy. ;)

[Elennainie]

G7o, since we'll have a new lesson this Friday, I was wondering if you would post the answers to all your exercises, so we can check ourselves.

Here's my shot at some more of them:
#3. Quendi - plural
tier - plural
casar -- not plural; plural is casari

[gate7ole]

Keys to exercises:

1. Form the plural of the following words:
alda, anto, cirya, harma, macil, mornië, nóme, rassë, sangwa, seler,toron
aldar,antor,ciryar,harmar,macili,mornier,nomi, rassi, sangwar, seleri,toroni

2. Find if there is a mistake in the next phrases:
A. i ohtari
B. i aran ar roccor
C*. i Isil ar i Anar ->Isil ar Anar
D*. minë liër nu aran ->mine lië nu aran OR lier nu aran
E*. i malli ->i maller (irregular noun)
F. i eldar nu i aran
G*. minë tári ar i vender ->minë tári ar i vendi

3. Which of the following words are in plural?
Quendi*, tier*, casar, eleni*, anar, nér, lasser*
(the plurals have an asterisk)

4. Pair the words from the two lists:
i tier the paths
maller roads
lassë leaf
i elen the star
i-mar the Earth
i-coimas the lifebread
parmar books
lambi languages
máryat her hands

[Elennainie]

Thanks! How did everybody do? I got 2f wrong, :( because I thought you weren't supposed to use an "i" before eldar, because it denotes an entire race, but then I read back in the lesson and it said if you were referring to just a group of a few individual elves and not the entire race, you can say "i eldar".

[Elennainie]

Lesson 2: Dual Plural & Stem Variation begins here

Hi there! Hope everybody had fun reading our second lesson, which is actually Lesson Three in the ardalambion course. Allow me to quote G7o for consistency and because he said it so well:
The procedure I believe we should follow is the following. First I will provide the summary of the lesson. Also, I have made a few exercises and along with the given exercises of the course, they should be sufficient . I will post a few at the time and everyone will be welcome to give some answers. In order to work out, we shouldn’t rush and give all answers at once. Let many people be able to participate. Questions about the lesson as well as other remarks are welcome, too. We will try to cope with any problem that may arise, together.

Summary
In addition to the normal plural formed with the endings -r & -i, Quenya has a dual plural, formed with the endings -u & -t. The dual plural refers to two of something and is reserved for use with nouns that constitute a natural or logical pair. Examples of natural pairs include peu (lips), rancu (arms), and other body parts that naturally occur in two's. Examples of logical pairs include veru (husband & wife/married pair) and aldu (the Two Trees Telp.& Laur.) The dual plural is limited to a pair of things that are specially related to each other, as opposed to two things that just happen to be found together.

The ending -t is used to form dual plural unless the word already contains a "t" or a "d", in which case -u is used. (-u displaces the final vowel of a word ending in a vowel.) Some exceptions, left over from older Quenya, are veru and peu. In addition, Fauskanger guesses that all body part pairs take the -u ending.

The topic of stem variation is also introduced. This refers to a change in the word when endings are added. In some cases, a long vowel is shortened when any ending is added. In other cases, a final consonant changes to a different consonant with the addition of any ending. Other stem variations are also possible, but we are reassured! :) that "most Quenya words seem to be quite well-behaved, with no distinct 'stem' from to remember; you just add the ending and that's it." (Fausk.) Stem forms distinct from their vocabulary words may be memorized at the same time as their vocab. words, e.g. vocab word "talan", with its stem from "talam". The stem will be provided in parenthesis next to the vocab. word in the course word lists.

Lesson 3 was a short chapter, with dual plural being a simple concept. As for stem variation.....well, I guess you just can't get away from that sort of thing, even in Quenya!! ;)

[Elennainie]

Here are some initial exercises for us. Please just post the answers to a few at a time, as we've been doing, so everyone gets a chance to answer some. Our class is growing!!! :D

1. Form the dual plural:
oron
harma
tári
rocco
talan
nér
nís
alda
aiwë
ranco
pé

2. Name 4 quenya words with a distinct stem form. Give both the word and its stem form.

3. Is there a mistake? If so, what is it?
a. atta ciryat
b. nísu
c. i sardi ar i roccor
d. minë talami nu aiwë
e. I Aiwer ar orontu
f. atta vendi ar atta néri nu aldu

4. Think of place names or character names from LotR or Sil. that include the following words:
a. hen
b. Isil
c. cirya
d. alda

5. Translate into English:
a. atta aiwi nu minë alda
b. aiwet nu oron
c. hendu ar rancu
d. minë cirya ar i tári
e. aldu (on) orontu
f. i aran ar i nér

6. Translate into Quenya:
a. married pair
b. pair of lips
c. the gate and a bird
d. two stones (any two) and two men (any two that happened to be together)
e. double gate under the twin peaks
f. a woman and two suns

*************
Hope this is all coherent -- I was up late nursing my mom, who had surgery.

[Nóm]

Thanks a lot Elennainie!

1. Form the dual plural:
oron.........oront
harma.......harmu
tári...........taru

[gate7ole]

Originally posted by Nóm
oron.........oront

I think that the correct dual form of oron is orontu, because it has the stem variation oront- and the dual form used here is the ending -u.
A hint I found that may help me use the correct endings and forms in general, is whether it sounds well. Oront seems to me that it lacks something, and ending. Of course it cannot be used as a definite rule, but it may be a quick way to correct the most obvious mistakes.


rocco -> roccot
talan -> talamu (??)
nér -> néru

[Elennainie]

Originally posted by gate7ole
rocco -> roccot
talan -> talamu (??)
nér -> néru

I believe that the accent drops off of nér when you add an ending, since its stem is ner. So it would be neru.

[gate7ole]

You're right professor Ellenainie.

Other exercises:
5.
a. two birds under one tree
b. a pair of birds under a mountain

6.
a.veru
b.peu

[Húrin Thalion]

The I'll finish up exercise 1:

Nís=Nisu

Alda=Aldu

Aiwë=Aiwu

Ranco=Rancu

Pé=Peru(?)

1. Form the dual plural:
oron
harma
tári
rocco
talan
nér
nís
alda
aiwë
ranco
pé

Húrin Thalion

[gate7ole]

Húrin Thalion,
Pé becomes Peu
The diphthong eu is acceptable in Quenya, so there is no need to insert a letter between the e and u.

3.
a. correct
b. nísu ----> nisu (the accept is dropped)
c. correct

4.
a. Amon Hen (~ “the hill of sight”, the place that the fellowship broke)
b. Isildur
c. Ciryaher (Gondorian king)
d. Aldarion (Númenórean king)

[Elennainie]

G7o, 3a. "atta ciryat" might be better without the "atta", which is redundant and translates "two a couple of ships".
Lesson 3 says "ciryat would only be a kind of spoken shorthand for the full phrase atta ciryar..." So, if one uses the dual plural, one doesn't need the word "atta".

3b. nísu is correctly written nissu. The stem for nís is niss- . You are right, the accent is dropped. The single "s" also becomes double "ss"

4. Great job! I didn't even think of Ciryaher. I was thinking Círdan, but yours is better.

[Húrin Thalion]

Ok I will take on exercise 5 then:

1. Two birds under one tree.

2: A pair of birds under a mountain.

3: A pair of eyes and a pair of arms.

4: Oe ship under the queen.

5: A pair of trees on a pair of mountains

6: The king and the man.

I also wonder if anyone is interested in an online quenya practice session on sunday?

Húrin Thalion

[Gil-Galad]

When will be the next lesson?I printed this lesson and the previous one and I'm impatient to read the next one!:)

[Húrin Thalion]

As soon as the exercises that we can solve are done. But I think that we could set the time for the new lesson to thursday if it's alright to you. Let the reading commence, but don't forget the exercise left.

Húrin Thalion

[Elennainie]

Moving on to the next chapt. sounds great to me. :D Will you be the professor, Hurin? When would you like me to post the answers to all the exercises?

[Húrin Thalion]

You can post the correct answers to the ones that are doen but wait a while with number six.

Húrin Thalion

[gate7ole]

Exercise 2:
Besides the words provided at the course, another word with a distinct stem form is
Silmaril
with stem form
Silmarill-
which makes the plural of the word:
Silmarilli with double 'l'


Exercise 6:
a. veru
b. peu
c. i ando ar aiwë
d. atta sardi ar atta neri
e. andu nu i orontu
f. nís ar atta anari

[Elennainie]

Excellent job on lesson 2, everybody! :D Gold stars for everyone...

Here are the answers to the exercises:
1. Form the dual plural:
oron...................orontu
harma...............harmu or harmat? *please see below!!!
tári..................taru
rocco...............roccot
talan................talamu
nér...................neru
nís...................nissu
alda.................aldu
aiwë.................aiwet
ranco...............rancu
pé..................peu

2. Name 4 quenya words with a distinct stem form. Give both the word and its stem form.
Several, including:
hen (hend-)
nér (ner-)
nís (niss-)
talan (talam-)
sar (sard-)
oron (oront-)
and G7o's addition Silmaril (Silmarill-)

3. Is there a mistake? If so, what is it?
a. atta ciryat........"atta" is unnecessary or change ciryat to ciryar
b. nísu.................no accent and double the s (nissu)
c. i sardi ar i roccor.............no mistake
d. minë talami nu aiwë..........."talami" should be "talan" b/c it's singular
e. I Aiwer ar orontu..............no mistake
f. atta vendi ar atta néri nu aldu.........no accent on "neri"

4. Think of place names or character names from LotR or Sil. that include the following words: answers will vary - (see G7o's post for some good ones) :)
a. hen
b. Isil
c. cirya
d. alda

5. Translate into English:
a. atta aiwi nu minë alda.......two birds under one tree
b. aiwet nu oron..................a pair of birds under a mountain
c. hendu ar rancu ...............a pair of eyes and a pair of arms
d. minë cirya ar i tári............one ship and the queen
e. aldu (on) orontu..............either "the two trees (meaning those in Valinor)" or "a pair of trees" on a pair of mountains
f. i aran ar i nér...................the king and the man

6. Translate into Quenya:
a. married pair.......................veru
b. pair of lips.........................peu
c. the gate and a bird.............i ando ar aiwë
d. two stones (any two) and two men (any two that happened to be together)..........................atta sardi ar atta neri
e. double gate under the twin peaks........andu nu i orontu
f. a woman and two suns.........nís ar atta anari
Does everyone agree about number 1, harmu? should it be harmat, since you are supposed to try -t first and then use -u only if there is already a t or a d? I'm confused on this point. Not all words ending in a vowel take -u for dual plural -right? or do they? I would love some clarification on this. Thanks. :)

[gate7ole]

Originally posted by Elennainie
Does everyone agree about number 1, harmu? should it be harmat, since you are supposed to try -t first and then use -u only if there is already a t or a d? I'm confused on this point. Not all words ending in a vowel take -u for dual plural -right? or do they? I would love some clarification on this. Thanks. :)[/B]

Well, my personal opinion is that the correct one is harmat. As stated in the course the use of dual form is not completely clarified and the professor suggested that we use a -t ending excpet the special occasions of "body parts", d's and t's, nound ending with a consonant. harma is not "irregular" in that sense, so why not use the regular dual form?

[Elennainie]

I reread the section about that, and I agree with you that "harmat" seems correct because it does not have a t or d.

The duals Tolkien listed in the Plotz Letter, ciryat "a couple of ships" and Lesset " a couple of leaves...confirm that a word with no t or d in them take the dual ending -t.

(Btw, g7o, I asked you in the hall of lectures thread, but I think you might not have seen it. :) My question was, do you know of a specific place in the Letters where Tolkien talks about philosophy or specifically metaphysics in his writings. You had written that the Letters would be a good place to look for that topic. Congratulations on your new position in the guild!)

[Calimehtar]

When is someone going to post for Lesson III? :confused: Has anyone asked to be the "Professor" for that lesson?

[Húrin Thalion]

I am writing lesson three sumary right now BB. It is in the middle of the night here so I don't think I can make all the exercises tonight. I will do three exercises tonight and I have also asked gate7ole to make some. Sorry if I'm a little late out, I thought it was sunday, my bad. The third lesson will come up tonight. I promise.

Húrin Thalion

[Húrin Thalion]

Lesson 3: Adjective and copula begins here

Ok here it comes, my sumary:

I will not in this sumary describe what an adjective is, that is in the course so let's start with the quenya. Most adjectives end in the letters -a or -ë there are a few that end with consonant too like firin, dead. You can place an adjective in front of or behind the noun for example "Lintë yuldar" could also be said as "Yuldar lintë". This is often used in titles or standing Homeric prefix's, "Elendil voronda" Elendil the faithful. You can use a copula which is the word that binds the adjective and plural together in English, is/are. Example: "Voronda ná Elendil"=Elendil is faithful. When in plural ná (is) becomes nar (notice the dropped accent). Adjectives do not have articles as "I". To put an adjective in plural you must change the ending.

-a becomes -ë

-ë becomes -i

-ëa becomes -ië (to avoid double ë)

Words ending with consonants get -i at the ending

Quenya adjectives agree in number; if an adjective describes a plural noun or more than one noun, the adjective must be plural as well.

That was it for the sumary, now for the exercises:

1. Translate into English:

A. Morë rocco.
B. Calimë hendu.
C. Neldë firini neri.
D. Vanyë aiwi.
E. Tári ná taura nís.
F. I oronti nar altë.
G. Aran taura (two possible translations!)
H. I nér ar i nís nar sailë.

2. Translate into Quenya:

I. The white gate.
J. A great ship.
K. The floor is red.
L. One black stone and three white stones.
M. Wise kings are mighty men.
N. The mighty man and the beautiful woman are evil.
O. Elves are beautiful.
P. The Elves are a beautiful people.

These two are made by Fauskanger, theose who now follow ar amde by me:

3. Which of these adjectives are in plural?

A. Morë, calima, firini, ninqui, umië, saila, tauri. Translate!

4. Make a correct sentence and translate out of these words:

A. arani i taurë wendi saili ar.
B. aiwi vany nu andi.
C. aldi ar atta aiwi neldë
D. lië neldë ciryat atta ar

Forgive me if I did something wrong the clock is now 02 00 in the night. Forgive me for the misunderstanding, I will post more tomorrow...

Húrin Thalion

[Elennainie]

Forgive me if I did something wrong the clock is now 02 00 in the night. Forgive me for the misunderstanding, I will post more tomorrow... You didn't do anything wrong, Hurin. And thank you for staying up so late to be our professor! :)

I guess it was too much to hope for that we might actually get some verbs in this chapter.... ;)

[gate7ole]

A few more exercises:

5. Find the mistake.
1. i vanyar nissi
2. Vanyar nar sailë
3. atta ninquë aldar nu i oron alta
4. i aran ar i tári ná taura
5. talani carni
6. i morë oronti nar úmei
7. neldë taurë andor
8. atta sardi nu morë aldu


6. Group the following phrases in two groups according to their difference in meaning, after you have found the wrong(s) one(s). Also, for each phrase, indicate which word we want to emphasize (not always clear).
sailë Eldar
Eldar sailë
i Eldar nar sailë
sailë nar Eldar
i Eldar sailë
nar sailë Eldar
i Eldar sailë nar


7. From the first sentence construct the second one, in a few steps. At each step you will be allowed to change at most two words (e.g. form a plural from a singular word OR delete a word somewhere and put another somewhere else). Also each step should have a coherent sentence with a meaning (e.g not “i aran ar i tári nar oronti!”). And make sure that each sentence has exactly 10 words.
A.atta aldar ar i mori sardi nu i ninquë oron
B.i taura aran ar i saila tári nar vanyë Eldar

[Elennainie]

3.A.
morë - singular, black
calima - singular, bright
firini - plural, dead
ninqui - plural, white

[gate7ole]

1.
A. Black horse
B. (A pair of) bright eyes
C. Three dead men

2.
A. i ninquë ando
B. alta cirya
C. i talan ná carnë


4.
taurë arani ar i sailë vendi -> mighty kings and the wise maidens

vanyë aiwi nu andor -> beautiful birds under gates

[Húrin Thalion]

Some of the adjectives in exercise four should be in plural Gate7, otherwise it is all correct.

[Elennainie]

1.
d. beautiful birds
e. a queen is a mighty woman
f. The mountains are great.

2.
l. minë morë sar ar neldë ninqui sardi
m. Sailë arani nar taurë neri.
n. I taura nér ar i vanya nís nar umië.

5. a. "i vanyar nissi" should be "i vanye nissi" the beautiful women
b. there is no subject of the sentence? Vanyar is an adjective, not a noun? beautiful are wise?
c. should be ninqui to agree with plural aldar
two white trees under the great mountain

[gate7ole]

Originally posted by Elennainie

b. there is no subject of the sentence? Vanyar is an adjective, not a noun? beautiful are wise?

there are some adjectives that can be used as nouns. Such is "Vanya" (e.g. the first elven clan, the Vanyar). The trick here is that when such an adjective is used as a noun, is gets the plural of the nouns (i.e. -r). So the plural of vanya becomes vanyë when used as an adjective and vanyar when used as a noun!
Thus, b is correct.

[Elennainie]

Where are the rest of our classmates? :confused: Come on, guys, please post your answers to the exercises Húrin Thalion and gate7ole made for us! :mad:

[gate7ole]

Originally posted by Elennainie
Where are the rest of our classmates? :confused: Come on, guys, please post your answers to the exercises Húrin Thalion and gate7ole made for us! :mad:
It seems that there isn't much participation. That's ok. Even if we are only the 3 of us, we will continue this difficult task. Right? (And you'll see how they will envy us when in a few months we'll be discussing in Quenya only:D ).
For the next chapter, I can do the summary but not before Sunday. And after we've covered that chapter (which will provide us with a few nouns), we'll go back and repeat the 4 chapters and maybe do some tests, before continuing.

[Calimehtar]

Sorry I havent posted in a week or two. Been real busy, this week was Semester Exams. Let me read over the summary again and I'll answer some of them.

[Calimehtar]

1G. Aran taura (two possible translations!)
"Mighty King"
1H. I nér ar i nís nar sailë.
"The man and the woman are wise."

[Elennainie]

It seems that there isn't much participation. That's ok. Even if we are only the 3 of us, we will continue this difficult task. Right? (And you'll see how they will envy us when in a few months we'll be discussing in Quenya only ).
:D We'll be the "Quenya Fellowship" ;) and we will prevail in our difficult task! I truly want to thank you guys who have hung in there with the course. I couldn't learn Quenya on my own, and it is really nice to have you as classmates.

we'll go back and repeat the 4 chapters and maybe do some tests, before continuing.

I was thinking the same thing about the test. It would help to solidify our knowledge and be more like real school where you must prepare intensively for one test. What do you think about a live, timed test? Everyone will have the same questions and we actually get graded. It's good for incentive, imo.

[Calimehtar]

So we aren't moving on to Lesson 4? (Thats good for me. I'd like to be able to look over the others before moving on.) Or are we moving on to Lesson 4, then we'll go back and study the "Lesson A" group that we downloaded?

[Calimehtar]

OK, I understand now. Someone will post their Summary for Lesson 4 today. Then we'll study and then have tests. Sounds GOOD! Who will be making the test?

[Húrin Thalion]

Well... I do not think that anyone has said that they want to make a sumary yet. Anyone volunteering?

Húrin Thalion

[Elennainie]

Originally posted by gate7ole
For the next chapter, I can do the summary but not before Sunday. And after we've covered that chapter (which will provide us with a few nouns), we'll go back and repeat the 4 chapters and maybe do some tests, before continuing.

I believe gate7ole is posting the summary for lesson 4 on Sunday or later. Húrin & gate7ole, could you please post the answers to the lesson 3 exercises before Sunday so we can check ourselves? BilbosBane, do you want to solve some more of the exercises? The last 3 in #5 are left, and all of #6 & #7.

Here are some more attempts:
4.C. Atta aldar ar neldë aiwi..........two trees and three birds
D. Neldë lier ar atta ciryar..........Three peoples (as in ethnic groups)
and two birds
or Neldë lier ar ciryat (without atta b/c that would be redundant if
using dual plural form)..................Three peoples and a pair of birds

5.D. ná should be nar, plural b/c a king and queen together make
two; also taura should be taurë for the same reason
I aran ar i tári nar taurë................The king and the queen are
mighty.
E."Talani" should be "talami" b/c of stem variation.
Talami carni......................red floors
F.should be "i mori oronti nar umië"........the dark mountains are evil.
Does the accent fall off the "u" in "úmei" when you add an ending, making it "umië" rather than "úmië"?

[Finduilas]

Hey,am I free to join you.I have printed the pages that have been posted so far and I'm syudying them now.Soon I'll be ready and I'd like to join you if you want me of course.:)

[Húrin Thalion]

aOf course you are welcome Finduilas! Always nice with more people who want to join us on our long and hard journey towards mastering the fair and elusive language Quenya.

Húrin Thalion

[Finduilas]

Thank you.But I saw only lesson three ,please , tell me where are the other lessons.:(

[Húrin Thalion]

Farther down, close to the bottom. Start with "Quenya lesson 1/2"

[gate7ole]

SOLUTIONS TO EXERCISES

5.
1. i vanyar nissi -> i vanyë nissi
2. Vanyar nar sailë
3. atta ninquë aldar nu i oron alta ->atta ninqui aldar nu i oron alta
4. i aran ar i tári ná taura -> i aran ar I tári nar taurë
5. talani carni -> talami carni
6. i morë oronti nar úmei -> i mori oronti nar úmië
7. neldë taurë andor
8. atta sardi nu morë aldu -> atta sardi nu mori aldu

6.
Group the following phrases in two groups according to their difference in meaning, after you have found the wrong(s) one(s). Also, for each phrase, indicate which word we want to emphasize (not always clear).
The wrong one: nar sailë Eldar
Group A:
i Eldar nar sailë
i Eldar sailë
i Eldar sailë nar

Group B:
sailë Eldar
Eldar sailë
sailë nar Eldar


7.One possible solution:

atta aldar ar i mori sardi nu i ninquë oron

atta arani ar i mori roccor nu i ninquë oron
atta arani ar i saila tári nu i ninquë oron
i aran ar i saila tári nu i ninquë oron
i taura aran ar i saila tári nu ninquë oron
i taura aran ar i saila tári nu vanyë aldar
i taura aran ar i saila tári nar vanyë Eldar

i taura aran ar i saila tári nar vanyë Eldar

[gate7ole]

Lesson 4: Verbs (Present Tense) - Superlative begins here


SUMMARY

Verbs
Present Tense

The verbs in Quenya are divided in two categories:

1. Primary (which don’t have endings in –a)
mat- “to eat”
tac- “to fasten”
tul- “to come”
mel- “to love”

The present tense of this category is formed by adding an –a at the end of the verb and lengthening the stem-vowel.
The stem-vowel is the vowel of the verb-root and normally is the first vowel of the verb.
e.g.
mat -> máta
tul -> túla
mel -> méla
quet -> quéta


2. A-stems / Derived (which have endings –ya, -ta, -na …):
calya- "to illuminate"
tulta- "to send for, to fetch, to summon"
harna- "to wound"
mapa- "to grasp, to seize"

The present tense is probably formed in a same way as the first category: here we replace the –a ending with the –ëa and then lengthen the stem-vowel.
e.g.
ora -> órëa

but in cases of A-stems with longer endings (like –ya, -ta), the lengthening of the vowel is not permitted before a cluster of consonants, so the accent is dropped.
e.g.
tulta -> tultëa
calya -> calyëa

However this last rule isn’t attested in any written passage but derives from the other rules.



Plural of Verbs.
The verb always agrees in number with the object. The plural of the present tense is very easy. We just put the ending –r.
e.g.
mátar (~are eating)
calyëar (~are illuminating)

Position of Verbs.
The normal word order is:
Object – Verb – Subject
However the order can be changed (especially in poetry) if there is a need for dramatic tense. But even then we must be careful not to confuse the reader about which is the object and which the subject.
e.g.
Auta i lómë! “Passes the night!” (Emphasis on the verb)




Adjectives
Superlative
The superlative form of an adjective is formed by adding the an- in front of the word.
This prefix remains unchanged if the word is beginning in a vowel or in c-, n-, qu-, t-, v-, w-, and y-.
e.g
an + alta "great (in size)" = analta "greatest"
an + calima "bright" = ancalima "brightest" (our sole attested example!)
an + norna "tough" = annorna "toughest"
an + quanta "full" = anquanta "fullest"
an + vanya "beautiful" = anvanya "most beautiful"

The prefix an- however may change according to the first letter of the adjective.
e.g.
an + pitya "small" = ampitya "smalles” (p-)
an + lauca "warm" = allauca "warmest" (l-)
an + ringa "cold" = arringa "coldest" (r-)
an + sarda "hard" = assarda "hardest" (s-)
an + moina "dear" = ammoina "dearest" (m-)

For example:
Eärendil elenion ancalima ~Eärendil brightest of the stars.

[gate7ole]

Exercises:


1. Form the present tense singular and plural of the verbs:
mapa-, tir-, ala-, caita-, caita-, tulta-, linda-, mat-, cenda-

2. Form the superlative of the following adjectives:
tiuca, vanya, saila, úmëa, taura, lehta, raica, írima, melda

3. Find the errors:
I ansaila tári céndëa i parma
I taurë Eldar mapar canta ciryar
I aran tultëa neldë néri.
I anvanyar aiwë lindëa nú i alda
I nér ar i nís máta nú I tasar
I Nauco mápa i analta sar
Canda firini aiwi caitar (on) i talan.

4. Translate into English:
A. I nís lálëa.
B. I antiuca Nauco máta.
C. I tári tíra i aran.
D. I analta oron ná taura.
E. I nér tultëa i anvanya vendë.
F. I aiwë lindëa.
G. I Naucor mápëar i canta Eldar.
H. I antaura aran ná saila.

5. Translate into Quenya:
I. The woman is watching the greatest (/biggest) ship.
J. The most evil (/evilest) men are dead.
K. The Elf is seizing the book.
L. Four men are lying under a tree.
M. The wisest Elf is reading a book.
N. The king and the queen are reading the book.
O. The birds are singing.
P. The four Dwarves are watching a bird.

[Elennainie]

Prof. G7o, thanks for the summary and exercises.

Yay! now we can say "i love you" in quenya! :D Inyë tye-méla! - quenya, the language of wooing. :)

[Elennainie]

1. Form the present tense singular and plural of the verbs:

mápëa, mápëar
tíra, tírar
álëa, álëar
caitëa, caitëar


2. Form the superlative of the following adjectives:

antiuca, anvanya, assaila, anúmëa

3. Find the errors:

I ansaila tári céndëa i parma.

"ansaila" should be "assaila". "céndëa" should be "cendëa", without the accent b/c the vowel is not lengthened before a consonantal cluster.
The wisest queen is reading the book.

[Calimehtar]

I was wondering if anyone was going to post. lol I was scared to... didn't know if we were supposed to or not. I'll give some answers in a second.

[Calimehtar]

4. Translate into English:
A. I nís lálëa.
B. I antiuca Nauco máta.
C. I tári tíra i aran.

A: The woman laughed.
B: The fat Dwarf ate. (In antuica, was does the "an-" do to tuica?
C: The queen watched the Dwaf eat. (Should that a be after mat?)
D: The queen watched the king.

Sorry if those 2 questions seem stupid; I haven't finished reading Lesson 4.

[Calimehtar]

I was wondering what you would think of this, now that we've learned a good number of words. We could open a thread where we write a short story in Quenya. We could either do it where I'd write a little then you write a little and so on, or we could all just write our own story. I think this would be pretty fun. And it'd help us learn, I think. :D

[Elennainie]

Originally posted by BilbosBane
B: The fat Dwarf ate. (In antuica, was does the "an-" do to tuica?

"An-" added to an adjective, makes it a superlative adjective. In this case, it makes "fat", "fattest". Superlative is like to the highest degree, the most fat (fattest), most wise (wisest), most tall (tallest), etc.

[Elennainie]

About the story idea, sounds fine to me, but our vocab. is still pretty limited, and everything would have to be in the present tense. "The dwarf is reading. The dwarf is seizing. The dwarf is eating".... you couldn't ever say what the dwarf was doing before or will do. Would that work???

[Calimehtar]

Well, I guess we can wait a little while before we do that. But that'd be a good group activity. (BTW, sorry for posting 3 times instead of it all being in 1.)

[Calimehtar]

D. I analta oron ná taura.
E. I nér tultëa i anvanya vendë.
F. I aiwë lindëa.
G. I Naucor mápëar i canta Eldar.
H. I antaura aran ná saila.

The greatest mountain is mighty.
The man summoned the most beautiful maiden.
The bird sang.
The Dwarves grasped the four Elves.
The mightiest king is wise.

OK, I'll leave the rest of the excercises to the others. BTW.... where are the others??? Also, I want your suggestions on this. I am going to make a new member name and I was going to make it Elven. I got on Aldalambion to look up some words. I found a few. Heres some and if you know a good name, tell it to me.

Calimehtar - Bright Swordsman
Hallaner - Tall Man
Ingolmo - Loremaster
Fea (word for OF) Endor - Spirit of Middle Earth
Hallamacar - Tall Swordsman

Thats pretty much all I came up with. Ellananie (sp?) what does that mean? It is Elvish, isnt it? So far, my favorite of those is Calimehtar.

[Elennainie]

No, let's go ahead, if you want. It's a fun idea. :) You start the thread. I would love some more practice.

**Attention all Quenya classmates:**
Let's start working on making the test for lessons 1-4. I made 6 translate from English to Quenya sentences already. Why don't we each make 12 sentences for the test, both english to quenya and quenya to english, making certain they are correct. We can either ask someone not in the course to administer it for us, or we could try to do it over IM. What do you guys want to do?

Also, Gate7ole, you could probably help us with this, since you are deputy guildmaster. I suggest we consolidate the four lesson threads into one thread titled "Quenya Lessons 1 - 4". We are going to have a lot more threads for the upcoming lessons and I don't want to muck up the Guild of Tolkienology with 30 threads about Quenya. Does everyone agree?

[Elennainie]

Just saw your post. I like the first and the last names the best. Elennainië means "star lament". Did you get my PM?

[Calimehtar]

Yes and the answer to your PM is yes

[Elennainie]

5. Translate into Quenya:
I. I nís tíra analta cirya.
J. I anúmië neri nar firini.
K. I Elda mápëa i parma.
L. Canta neri caitëar nu alda.

[gate7ole]

BilbosBane, thank you for the your ideas.
About the exercices, be careful that all the verbs are in present tense (continuous), while you translated them as past.
So, the phrase:
"I nís lálëa."
says
"The woman is laughing".
The same goes with all the exercises of the chapter.

The idea with the story is very interesting. I agree though with Elennainie that we must wait a little until we learn some more tenses.

Also, I agree to join the 4 threads in one, but I'm not a Mod and can't do it. I will ask from one though to do it.

Finally about the test, I had also thought of a similar way to do them. All of us independently will write some phrases and in a way test each other. We can do it right after the holidays.

[Elennainie]

Thanks for asking a mod about the four threads for us, Gate7ole.

That sounds good about giving the test to one another, but wouldn't it be more fair to give the same exact test? You'd know your own questions, of course, but everyone would have that same advantage. What does Hurin think? We haven't heard from him yet.

Nevermind, that won't work either, then we'd know all the answers to all the question before time....arrrggghh. I still think having a neutral person in the guild administer the test would work best. That way, we'd only know the answers to our own questions and only the administor would know the rest.

[Calimehtar]

I say we take the test aroun next Tuesday or Wednnesday. When did you have planned? "right after the holidays" you mean after Christmas or New Years?
'

[Calimehtar]

I am very sorry if I am clogging up the thread. Should I use the Common Quenya Thread for this kind of stuff? I was just wondering if we are the only three left in the Quenya Group. We are the only ones who have posted for this thread, but I guess it could be that everyone is busy with the holidays or something.
Elannanie, I asked Beorn about changing my name and keeping my post number, he told me to e-mail the Webmaster about it, so I did. I hope he lets me change it!:D

[Húrin Thalion]

I am sorry all because I haven't yet posted here. I have found it a little hard to get the time for the course the past days but I am still on and will be posting here soon.

Húrin Thalion

[gate7ole]

Keys:

1. Form the present tense singular and plural of the verbs:
mapa-, tir-, ala-, caita-, tulta-, linda-, mat-, cenda-
mápëa, tíra, álëa, caitëa, tultëa, lindëa , máta, cendëa
mápëar,tírar,álëar,caitëar,tultëar,lindëar, mátar,cendëar

2. Form the superlative of the following adjectives:
tiuca, vanya, saila, úmëa, taura, lehta, raica, írima, melda
antuica, anvanya, assaila, anúmëa, antaura, allehat, arraica, anírima, ammelda

3. Find the errors:
I ansaila tári céndëa i parma -> I assaila tári cendëa I parma
I taurë Eldar mapar canta ciryar -> I taurë Eldar mápear canta ciryar
I aran tultëa neldë néri. -> correct
I anvanyar aiwë lindëa nú i alda -> I anvanya aiwë lindëa nú i alda
I nér ar i nís máta nú I tasar -> I nér ar i nís mátar nú i tasar
I Nauco mápa i analta sar -> I Nauco máëpa i analta sar
Canda firini aiwi caitar (on) i talan. -> Canda firini aiwi caitëar (on) i talan

4.
A. The woman is laughing.
B. The fattest Dwarf is eating.
C. The queen is watching the king.
D. The greatest mountain is mighty.
E. The man is summoning the most beautiful maiden.
F. The bird is singing.
G. The Dwarves are seizing the four Elves.
H. The mightiest king is wise.

5.
I. I nís tíra i analta cirya.
J. I anúmië neri nar firini.
K. I Elda mápëa i parma.
L. Canta neri caitëar nu alda.
M. I assaila Elda cendëa parma (an-saila becoming assaila by assimilation)
N. I aran ar i tári cendëar i parma.
O. I aiwi lindëar.
P. I canta Naucor tírar aiwë.

[Calimehtar]

Lesson V: Past Tense

1) In English, many past tense verbs are formed by adding –ed. Quenya is similar. You normally add an ending to the verbal stem. With what we know, all past tense verbs end in –ë, most of the time as –në.
orta-----------ortanë
ora------------oranë
hehta---------hehtanë
ulya-----------ulyanë

Primary Verbs
2) Whenever the stem of a primary verb doesn’t end in the consonants m, n, or r, adding –në would cause a consonant cluster. Instead, you will use an infix. An infix is like a suffix and prefix except instead of going at the beginning or ending of a word, it goes in the middle.
mat-------------mantë
hat--------------hantë
3) Before the consonant p, the infix is m in place of n.
top--------------tompë
4) Before the consonant c, the infix is in place of n.
5) If adding the past tense ending –në to a primary verb creates consonant clusters of tn, cn, pn, then the n and the consonant before it swap places.
tn---------- nt
cn----------ñc
pn--------- mp
6) Primary verbs ending in l form their past tense with –lë.
vil---------- villë
7) If a verb ends in r but their root word ended in d do not use the suffix –në. Instead, it uses the infix ndë.
rer--------- rendë
hyar------- hyandë
ser-------- sendë
-----------------------
Summary of Lesson Six: While various irregular formations occur, it would seem that the past tense of Quenya verbs is typically formed according to these rules: A-stem verbs simply receive the ending -në. The "primary" or ending-less verbs can also receive this ending if their last consonant is -r or -m, probably also -n (no examples). If added to a primary verb in -l, the ending -në turns into -lë (resulting in a double ll, e.g. villë as the past tense of vil- "fly"). Primary verbs ending in one of the consonants p, t, c have past tenses constructed by adding the ending -ë combined with nasal-infixion intruding before the last consonant of the verbal stem; the infix manifests as m before p (hence tompë as the past tense of top- "cover"), otherwise as n (hence mantë as the past tense of mat- "eat").
------------------------

[Calimehtar]

Excercises:

1. Translate into English:
A. I nér cendanë i parma.
B. I Naucor manter.
C. I aran tultanë i tári.
D. Nís lindanë.
E. I vendi tirner i Elda.
F. I lempë roccor caitaner nu i alta tasar.
G. I eleni siller.
H. I Nauco cennë rocco.

2. Translate into Quenya:
I. A Dwarf found the treasure.
J. The Elf spoke.
K. The horse jumped.
L. The king loved the Elves.
M. A man wrote five books.
N. The queen rose.
O. The kings possessed great treasures.
P. The king and the queen summoned four Elves and five Dwarves.

Those are just the two from the lesson, I will add mine tomorrow after school. (Sorry for not doing it sooner.)

[Elennainie]

Very nice, clear summary, Calimehtar - good job!

[gate7ole]

Two more exercises.

3. Fill the gaps with appropriate verbs:
1. I nér _____ i analta sar ar _____ I harma.
2. (Once) i saila Elda _____ parma. (Now), i nís _____ i parma.
3. I úmië neri _____ minë nís, ______ i rancu ar ______ (at her).
4. Isil _____ nu i calimë eleni.
5. I roccor _____ alta sar.
6. Aiwë _____ (when) i Nauco _____ ar ______ (it).
7. I tári ____ lembë vendi ar i aran _____ (to them).
8. (Yesterday), i neri _____ ar ______ nu i tasar. (Today they) ____ firini.


4. Find the errors:
1. Ii saila Elda quetë alta parma.
2. Neldë vanyar roccor camper i ando.
3. I neri mataner ar I nissi lindaner.
4. I vendi cenë mine elen sila.
5. I aran haryanë canta roccor ar tultanë atta.
6. Hendu ortanë ar cennë Anar
7. I antaurë neri mamper atta ciryar
8. I nér hírnë i nís nu i tasar.

[Beorn]

This thread is now composed of:


Quenya Lesson I:Nouns, Plural, Article
Quenya Lesson 2: Dual Plural & Stem Variation
Quenya lesson three: Adjective and copula
Quenya Lesson 4: Verbs (Present Tense) - Superlative, and


I have put notes in the beginning of each new lesson...

[Elennainie]

Thanks, Beorn, for consolidating for us, and especially for adding the lesson titles :)

[Elennainie]

Your sentences are really fun, gate7ole! :D

3. Fill the gaps with appropriate verbs:

1. I nér ortanë i analta sar ar hirnë I harma.
2. (Once) i saila Elda tencë parma. (Now), i nís cendanë i parma.
3. I úmië neri cenner minë nís, mapaner i rancu ar lalaner (at her).

[gate7ole]

I have one question. I don’t know if you’re supposed to know this. Maybe it is told later in another chapter. Anyway:
What is the past tense of the copula ná?
My best guess would be nanë (or even në). Does anybody know?

[Elennainie]

For anyone who would like a little more practice:

5. Form the past tense, both singular & plural, of the following verbs according to the general rules set forth in this chapter.

a. calya-
b. harna-
c. cúna-
d. can- (to order)
e. car- (to make, do)
f. fir- (to die, fade)
g. hlar- (to hear)
h. lav- (to lick)
i. maquet- (to ask)
j. mat-
k. *tap- (not a real verb, just made up for practice)
l. *hirip- (" " " " )
m. *uroc- (" " " " )
n. *tarac- (" " " " )

What is the past tense of the copula ná? According to the Nole Parma Lambeo Areldava list at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/2196/index.html , a list I am told is reliable by a couple people on the forum:

"For 'was' some writers have used né, pl. ('were') ner. Cf. also uin and umin 'I do not, am not' (1. pers. aorist), pa.t. úmé. -Mam/RGEO:67, An Introduction to Elvish:5, Silm:21/391, FS, UGU/UMU" I don't know what Fauskanger has to say about yet, though.

[Calimehtar]

Question: When I am going to make a Plural Past Tense Verb and I am looking at the last letter to see what suffix or infix to add to make it Past Tense, do I look at the last letter of the root-word or do I look at the word after I have made it Plural so then there would be a suffix on it. Like CALYA becomes CALYAR for plural (right?) so, then to make it Past-tense, do I look at the A or the R?

*sigh* and to make matters worse, I can't find my notes...

[Elennainie]

You look at the verb's root stem/root-word. Like for mat- (to eat) you look at the "t". For "calya-" you look at the "a". You won't have an ending on it yet.

[gate7ole]

a. calyanë calyaner
b. harnanë harnaner
c. cúnanë cúnaner
d. cannë canner
e. carnë carner
f. firnë firner
g. hlarnë hlarner

They all seem very regular. Did I understand wrong?


And in one of you answers Elennainie:
2. (Once) i saila Elda tencë parma. (Now), i nís cendanë i parma.
Since there is the word (now), the verb must be in present tense, that is cendëa.

[Húrin Thalion]

h. lav- (to lick)
i. maquet- (to ask)
j. mat-
k. *tap- (not a real verb, just made up for practice)
l. *hirip- (" " " " )
m. *uroc- (" " " " )
n. *tarac- (" " " " )

H=lanvë

I=maquentë

J=mantë

K=tampë

L=hirimpë

M=uroncë

N=tarancë

And oh, I am pretty tired right now so forgive me if I did siomething wrong, it became later than intended last night. (Or I am just lazy and wake up at 10 30, you choose)

Húrin Thalion

[Elennainie]

They all seem very regular. Did I understand wrong? You understood correctly, G7o, and yours are correct.

Hurin, you only missed the first one.

h. lav- (to lick) ...........lavnë lavner
i. maquet- (to ask).........maquentë, maquenter
j. mat-................mantë, manter
k. *tap- (not a real verb, just made up for practice).tampë, tamper
l. *hirip- (" " " " )...........hirimpë, hirimper
m. *uroc- (" " " " )..........uroncë, uroncer
n. *tarac- (" " " " ).........tarancë, tarancer

More answers:
4. Isil sillë nu i calimë eleni.
5. I roccor camper alta sar.
6. Aiwë lindanë (when) i Nauco tultanë ar mapanë (it).
7. I tári tultanë lempë vendi ar i aran quentë (to them).
8. (Yesterday), i neri lindaner ar lalaner nu i tasar. (Today they) nar firini.

[Finduilas]

Excuse me, but I'd like to ask you for something.
Would you please give me the translation of this : My Fair Queen

[gate7ole]

My Fair Queen:

Vanya tárinya

[Elennainie]

This is the start of the real lesson 6 (lesson 7 on ardalambion).

Future Tense:
The future tense is formed by adding the ending -uva to the verb stem.

For a-stem verbs, the final "a"drops off, e.g. mapa- (to seize)becomes mapuva (will seize).

For primary verbs, just add -uva, e.g. tir- (to watch) becomes tiruva (will watch).

As usual, just add "-r" to the end of the verb after the ending is attached, to make the verb plural. E.g. Eldar mapuvar. = The elves will seize. Naucor tiruvar. = The dwarves will watch. **Note: we voted to use the same nasal infixions for future tense as past tense uses, before adding the endings to the verbs. Thus, tap- becomes tampe in the past tense and tampuva in the future tense. It does not become tapuva. Mat- becomes mante in the past tense and mantuva in the future tense. Nasal infixion only occurs in the future tense for the verbs that have
-nte
-nce
-mpe
-lle
in the past tense, thus we stay consistent with the past tense and the words sound better.

Aorist Tense:
The aorist tense is discussed at length in this lesson, and Fauskanger's instruction should be read carefully. It is easy to confuse the aorist tense with the present tense, and there is no definitive answer as to which tense should be used in which instance. Even Tolkien uses them somewhat interchangebly. However, Aorist seems to be used for timeless truths and actions, habitual & characteristic actions, and actions that do not have a duration. The present tense is reserved for an ongoing action that is still happening as we speak.

The easiest way, imo, to state the difference, and the rule that all the exercises below follow, is:
Now Correct!:
aorist tense = verb + "-s" = eats
present tense = "is" + verb + "-ing" = is eating

**Caveat! This is an oversimplification :eek: and Fauskanger's complete discussion should be read carefully!

Aorist tense is easy to form:

For a-stem verbs, there is nothing to add! :) "The aorist is identical to the verbal stem itself (irrespective of any secondary endings the aorist verb may receive)." E.g., linda- (to sing) stays linda (sings). As usual, the secondary ending "-r" is added to make the verb plural, e.g. lindar (sing).

For primary verbs, add "-ë" in the singular (if there is no secondary ending added - I guess we'll learn about more of those later), and "-ir" in the plural (or "-i" plus a different secondary ending). "Hence the aorist of mat- (to eat) is matë (eats) if there is no further ending added to the word, but otherwise we see mati- + ending (e.g. matir "eat" in the case of a plural subject).
Aorist tense does not have nasal infixion.

So, Future:
-uva (with nasal infixion and dropping final a's in a-stems)

And Aorist:
-ë (if no secondary ending added)
-ir (if secondary ending is added; right now the only secondary ending we know is "-r" for the plural)

[Elennainie]

As stated above, for purposes of these exercises, present tense should be translated: "is" + verb + "-ing", e.g. "is eating". Aorist tense should be translated: verb + "-s", e.g. "eats".

A. Translate, paying special attention to the tense of the verb. State which tense you use and why.

1. The horses are jumping over the gate.
2. Horses jump over gates.
3. The horses will jump over the gate.
4. The horses jumped over the gate.
5. The warrior is writing a book.
6. A warrior writes books.
7. The warrior will write a book.
8. The warrior wrote a book.

B. Translate:

1. The moon shines above the brightest stars and the maiden loves (them) all.
2. A mighty lion will seize every bird and will eat (them).
3. Six warriors are lying dead under one evil black sword.
4. One red eye will see all and will laugh (at) the World.
5. A wise dwarf wrote, "One bird will speak above the (hidden) gate."
6. Yavanna sings and two trees spring forth (spring forth = tuia-)
7. Many wise elves will govern (their) peoples.
8. Gandalf reads the book (that) the dead kings wrote.
9. Three white birds are singing (in) the tree and the queen is watching (them).
10. All Dwarves love stones.


C. Fill in the blanks so the story makes sense (if you use a verb, make it aorist):

Beren ar Luthien _______ silmaril. Elu Thingol ________ i silmaril. Melian na assaila. Thingol _______ Eldar nu Doriath, but he does not _______ Naucor. I Nauglamir ná anvanya harma ar i Naucor nar _______ (adjective), so Thingol _________.

Now do the same, putting all verbs in future tense.

More exercises (6 Quenya to English sentences) will follow.

[Finduilas]

Thank you !!!:)
Oh, one last thing:

My wise Lady

[Elennainie]

My Wise Lady = Saila Herinya

[Elennainie]

Here are the last of the exercises:

D. Translate:

1. I nér quentë (to) i vendë ar i vendë lalanë.
2. Elda linduva (to) ilyë rávi nu i tasari.
3. I calima macil silë (when) Atani turir (it).
4. I úmëa aran cenë i ninquë hrávë (of) i vendë('s) anvanyë rancu.
5. I saila ohtar haryuva i analta harma.
6. Lempë mori roccor ortar i andor or i sardi.

[gate7ole]

A.
1. I roccor cápar or i ando
2. Roccor capir or andor (Aorist, it seems to describe a general truth)
3. I roccor campuva or i ando
4. I roccor camper or i ando

B.
1. Isil síla or i ancalima eleni ar i vendë méla (them) ilyë.
2. Taura rá mampuva ilya aiwë ar mantuva (them).
3. Enquë ohtari caitëar firini nu minë umëa morë macil.

C.
Beren ar Luthien mapar silmaril. Elu Thingol harya i silmaril. Melian na assaila…

[gate7ole]

Keys to Exercises:
1. Fill the gaps with appropriate verbs:
(possible answers)
1. I nér ortanë i analta sar ar hirnë I harma.
2. (Once) i saila Elda tencë parma. (Now), i nís cendëa i parma.
3. I úmië neri cenner minë nís, ortaner i rancu ar camper (at her).
4. Isil sillë/ortanë nu i calimë eleni.
5. I roccor camper alta sar.
6. Aiwë lindanë (when) i Nauco campë ar mapanë (it).
7. I tári tultanë lembë vendi ar i aran quentë (to them).
8. (Yesterday), i neri manter ar lindaner nu i tasar. (Today they) caitëar firini.

2. Find the errors:
1. i saila Elda quetë alta parma quetë->quentë
2. neldë vanyar roccor camper i ando vanyar->vanyë
3. I neri mataner ar I nissi lindaner mataner->manter
4. I vendi cenë minë elen sila. cenë->cenner, sila->síla
5. I aran haryanë canta roccor ar tultanë atta.
6. Hendu ortanë ar cennë Anar. ortanë->ortaner cennë->cenner
7. I antaurë neri mamper atta ciryar maper->mapaner
8. I nér hírnë i nís nu i tasar. hírnë->hirnë

[Elennainie]

As stated above, for purposes of these exercises, aorist should be translated: "is" + verb + "-ing", e.g. "is eating". Present tense should be translated: verb + "-s", e.g. "eats". Oh my gosh, I am SO SORRY! This is completely wrong!!! I got these switched, and have edited my post to reflect the correct info. I meant, aorist is verb + "-s", and present is "is" + verb + "-ing". Please accept my apology. I do hope I didn't mess you guys up! :o :o :o

G7o, Congratulations! Since you were the first to get 10 answers posted, you get the "top student in Quenya" award for this week!! :D

B. 1. "ancalima" should be "amcalimë" plural to agree with "eleni".
Should actually be the aorist tense "silë" and "melë", but what you did is correct according to my incorrect instruction (sorry again).

B 2. What's your opinion on this: I think "mampuva" should be "mapuva", without nasal infixion b/c it is an a-stem verb. In past tense it is mapanë, mapaner (like in your lesson 6a exercise 4.7.). If the verb were just "map-", then the nasal infixion would take place so that the forbidden cluster "mapne" would not occur. But since there is an "-a" at the end of "mapa", the "-a" just drops off and is replaced by the "u" in "-uva".

B.3. "umëa" should have an accent on the "u"

[Elennainie]

4. I vendi cenë mine elen sila. cenë->cennë, sila->síla
gate7ole, wouldn't "cenë" be "cenner" because "vendi" is plural?

[gate7ole]

Sorry for the mistakes, I was a bit tired when I posted yesterday.
About the future of mapa-, this is a very good observation Elennainie. I hadn’t thought of it. I agree that the correct future tense is mapuva, since there is no nasal-infixion to A-stems.

[gate7ole]

D. Translate
1. The man spoke to the maiden and the maiden laughed
2. An Elf will sing to all the lions under the willows
3. The bright sword shines when Men wield it.

Some phrases that I made:
1. Ilya Atan Ambaron firë minë aurë.
2. Saila aran turë rimba lië.
3. I aran tultuva (his) neri ar ilya ohtar turuva alta macil.
4. Rimbë roccor camper or i ando ar hirner (their freedom)
5. Isil ortanë or i eleni, (while) i taurë macili sillë carni.
6. Ilya aurë, Anar orta ar hirë Isil (who) nurta nu Ambar.
[nurta- ~ to hide].
[aurë ~ day].

[Elennainie]

1. Ilya Atan Ambaron firë minë aurë.
2. Saila aran turë rimba lië.
3. I aran tultuva (his) neri ar ilya ohtar turuva alta macil.
4. Rimbë roccor camper or i ando ar hirner (their freedom)
5. Isil ortanë or i eleni, (while) i taurë macili sillë carni.
6. Ilya aurë, Anar orta ar hirë Isil (who) nurta nu Ambar.

1. Every Man of Earth dies one day.
2. A wise king governs many people.
3. The king will summon his men and every warrior shall wield a great sword.
4. Many horses jumped over the gate and found their freedom.
5. The Moon rose over the stars, while the mighty swords shone red.
6. Every day, the Sun rises and finds the Moon who hides under the World. :p (What a cute sentence!)

[gate7ole]

B.
4. Minë carnë hen cennuva ilyë ar laluva (at) Ambar
5. Saila Nauco tencë, “Minë aiwë quentuva or i (hidden) ando.”
6. Yavanna linda at aldat tuiar
7. Rimbë sailë Eldar turuva (their) lier.

C.
(using future)
Beren ar Luthien mapuva silmaril. Elu Thingol haryuva i silmaril. Melian na assaila. Thingol turuva Eldar nu Doriath, but he meluva (not) Naucor. I Nauglamir ná anvanya harma ar i Naucor nar úmië (adjective), so Thingol firuva.

[Elennainie]

Originally posted by gate7ole
B.
4. Minë carnë hen cennuva ilyë ar laluva (at) Ambar cennuva should be cenuva; note on ilyë - if used as an adjective for an understood "things", then the plural is correct, if used as a noun, it can stay ilya.
5. Saila Nauco tencë, “Minë aiwë quentuva or i (hidden) ando.”
6. Yavanna linda at aldat tuiar. aldat should be aldu, b/c if there is a "d" or a "t" in the word, you use "-u" for dual plural instead of "-t"
7. Rimbë sailë Eldar turuva (their) lier.turava should be turavar

C.
(using future)
Beren ar Luthien mapuva silmaril. Elu Thingol haryuva i silmaril. Melian na assaila. Thingol turuva Eldar nu Doriath, but he meluva (not) Naucor. I Nauglamir ná anvanya harma ar i Naucor nar úmië (adjective), so Thingol firuva.

gate7ole, if you have time, would you make some more sentences so I have some more to solve? Quenya is getting harder and I could use the practice. Thanks.

[gate7ole]

Maquentelyet, acárienyet.


1. The Kings will govern the World and the peoples will see the (truth).
2. A wise man reads many books but the wisest man writes the thickest book[I know, it’s not poetic, but with our limited knowledge that was the best I could do].
3. Every king possesses a great treasure and the warriors guard (it).
4. Six Dwarves jumped the gate and grasped the treasure. (They) are lying above the floor dead.
5. A sword governs many peoples, (but) a book governs all the peoples.
6. The Elf saw the white mountain and the Sun rose above (it).
7. The wise Queen spoke: “The mightiest treasure of the world is the bright stars”

1. Rimbë úmië rávi firner nu i macili.
2. Minë nér ortuva ar turuva ilyë lier or Ambar.
3. Túrin Turambar cennë i úmëa morë macil ar quentë…

I wrote more English to Quenya sentences, since I believe they are better exercises that vice versa.

[Elennainie]

Maquentelyet, acárienyet. Does that say "You have asked, I have done it" ? Please tell me how you made those words: "maquente" (what tense?) + "lye" (you), but what does the "t" mean at the end?
"car-" (to make, or do) + "nye" (you)? :confused:

In confusion and awaiting your illumination ;),
Elen.

[Elennainie]

1. I arani turuvar Ambar ar i lier cenuvar i (truth).
2. Saila nér tecë rimbë parmar (but) i assaila nér tecë i antiuca parma.
3. Ilya aran harya alta harma ar i ohtari tirir (it).
4. Enquë naucor camper i ando ar mapaner i harma. (They) caitëar or i talan firini.
5. Macil turë rimbë lier, (but) parma turë ilyë lier.
6. I Elda cennë i ninquë oron ar Anar ortanë or (it).
7. I saila tári quentë: "I antaura harma Ambaron? ná i calimë eleni.

1. Many evil lions died beneath the swords.
2. One man will rise and will govern all peoples over the World.
3. Turin Turambar saw the evil black sword and said, "will you slay me?" Turin firnë (by) i úmëa morë macil.

[gate7ole]

Does that say "You have asked, I have done it" ? Please tell me how you made those words: "maquente" (what tense?) + "lye" (you), but what does the "t" mean at the end?
"car-" (to make, or do) + "nye" (you)?
“maquentë”: the root verb is “maquet-“~to ask, so you can now figure out the tense, by yourself. It’s of course simple past. The “-t” at the end means “them”.
“acárië”: this is past perfect of the verb “car-”~to do.
So, the correct translation would be
“You asked them, I’ve done them.”
I have read a couple of chapters ahead, but didn’t actually “delve” into the new rules. Just grasped the general idea.

As for your answers, as always perfect, except a tiny slip (not even mistake).

2. Saila nér tecë rimbë parmar (but) i assaila nér tecë i antiuca parma.

”tecë” should be “cenda” since the original sentence says “reads” and not “writes”.

[Elennainie]

”tecë” should be “cenda” since the original sentence says “reads” and not “writes”. Oh, yeah, sorry, I'm always confusing those two verbs. I just read lesson 8 (as promised ;) ) and I am pleased to say that the Perfect Tense is my new favorite tense! :D I love that utu and ece double vowel stuff. Yay for Tolkien making cool sounding verbs! :cool: He is the master of language!

[gate7ole]

LESSON 8: Prefect Tense, Pronominal Endings –nyë, -lyë, -s.

Summary

Perfect Tense.

This tense is formed by following these three general rules:
1. Add/Replace the ending –ië to the verb
2. Lengthen the stem vowel.
3. Augment the verb by duplicating the stem vowel.

Applying the rules the categories of the verbs we have:
-Primary Verbs:
cen -> ecénië.
-A-Stems:
mapa -> amápië


Special cases:

-Verbs ending in -ya:
hanya -> ahánië [the whole –ya cluster is replaced by the ending –ië]

-Verbs with diphthong for stem vowel:
roita -> oroitië [the first vowel is only duplicated and we have
no lengthening of the stem vowel.]

-Verbs beginning in vowels:
ora -> orórië [the whole first syllable is duplicated]
There is a possibility though that the perfect tense of such verbs stays unaugmented, e.g for the verb ora -> órië. We can’t be sure what is the correct, but we will be using the normal perfect for these verbs.

-Unaugmented perfect:
e.g. fir -> firië
This is a case when the stem vowel is not augmented. It has been attested in a few writings by Tolkien, suggesting that it may be used in spoken or informal language, or even in poems if ir serves the rhyme.



Pronouns.

The pronouns are an obscure part of Quenya since Tolkien changed his mind about them many times. Here we will deal with three of them: I, you, it.
The distinct difference from the English pronouns is that the Quenya pronouns are added as endings to the verb, rather than separate words.
Thus we have:
-n(yë) for “I”
-l(yë) for “you” (both singular and plural)
-s for “it”
Examples:
mátanye ~I am eating
firuvalye ~You will die

The full form –nyë and –lyë is not necessary (expect another ending is added after this). So, it is correct to just write:
mátan, firuval

Also, two pronominal endings can be added to the same vern the first of them denoting the subject of the verb and the second theobject:
E.g.
melinyel ~I love you (aorist)
Here the object “I” is the first ending, nye, which must be in full form (and not just n), since there is another ending l meaning “you”.
hirnelyes ~You found it

About the -lyë ending there are some obscurities. It seems that Tolkien had some ideas about using different words for the singular and plural meaning of “You”. But from his writings it is not clear what he intended to do. It may be that he intended to use the -lyë for plural and polite singular. But lacking further examples, we will leave the problem and use -lyë for both singular and plural.

[gate7ole]

Exercises
1.Translate to English and find mistakes:
A. I seldo amapië minë tiuca parma ar ecéndies.
B. Ihiriens firin nu i sar
C. I ohtar roitëa rávi, an i rávi amátier rimba móli.
D. I úmëa nér lalanë, an ilyë Eldar acaitaner firini or i talan.
E. Firuvan, an ahárien i harma Naucoron.
F. Ailaitiel Ilúvatar, ar nálye imbë antaura aran ar assaila tári.
G. Tulkas utúlië, ar Melkor nurtanë nu Utumno.
H. Utúliel ar ecéniel, (now) leruval i móli.
I. Elen alantië, ar seldo meruva. [mer- ~ to wish].


2. Translate to Quenya:
A. Seven Men pursued the lion and killed it
B. Men will govern the World and the Elves will leave [auta- ~ to leave]
C. The (War) ended and many men have died.
D. The Dwarves have hided under the mountain.
E. I will summon you and you will speak to me.
F. The King has hided between the warriors and the slaves.
G. I came and pursued the evil warriors because I am the King.
H. Between the Sun and the Moon, many stars shine.
I. Many Kings have risen and fallen above the World.

3. Fill the gaps with verbs and pronominal endings. Use your imagination!
A. Aragorn _______ i macil, ______ ar ______: “Nyë, Elessar, ar limbë antaurë ohtari _______(perfect) ar _______ i firini néri. (None) _______ (future).”
B. I (prophecy) ______: “(As) aran _______ (future) ar ______ i lië. Neri _______, an ________ ar _______ (them).”


4. Exercise the pronominal endings by translating the following short story.
Using future:
I am a King. I will come. I will release you. You will praise me and you will love me. I will rise. I will have many treasures. I will fall and will hide. You will pursue me and will find me. I will die.
Using Perfect:
I have been a King. I have come. I have released you. You have praised me and you have loved me. I have arisen. I have had many treasures. I have fallen and have hidden. You have pursued me and have found me. I have died.

[gate7ole]

Here is a list of all the tenses I prepared, so that everyone interested will have a quick guide to use when s/he is writing Quenya sentences.

Present
Primary:
sil- >> síla
A-Stems:
lala- >> lálëa
linda- >> lindëa (no accent before cluster)


Past
Primary:
-r
-m } hir- >> hirnë
-n

-p
-t } tec- >> tencë (nasal infixion)
-c

-l sil- >> sillë

A-Stems:
lala- >> lalanë


Future
Primary:
-r
-m } hir- >> hiruva
-n

-p
-t } tec- >> tencuva (nasal infixion)
-c

-l sil- >> silluva

A-Stems:
lala- >> laluva


Aorist
Primary:
sil- >> silë >> silir (plural)
A-Stems:
lala- >> lala


Perfect
Primary:
sil- >> isílië
onot- >> ononótië (augment all syllable)

A-Stems:
lala- >> alálië
harya- >> ahárië (drop all the -ya ending)
linda- >> ilindië (no accent before cluster)

[Elennainie]

1.Translate to English and find mistakes:
A. I seldo amapië minë tiuca parma ar ecéndies.
amápië ecendies The boy has seized one thick book and has read it.
B. Ihiriens firin nu i sar
Ihírienyes I have found it dead under the stone.
C. I ohtar roitëa rávi, an i rávi amátier rimba móli.
rimbë The warrior is pursuing lions, for the lions have eaten many slaves.
D. I úmëa nér lalanë, an ilyë Eldar acaitaner firini or i talan.
caitaner The evil man laughed, because all Elves lay dead on the floor.
E. Firuvan, an ahárien i harma Naucoron.
I shall die, for I have possessed the treasure of the Dwaves. (guessing on Naucoron - haven't learned that yet)
F. Ailaitiel Ilúvatar, ar nálye imbë antaura aran ar assaila tári. Alaitiel, nályë (can you do this to ná? might it be irregular or something?) You have praised Iluvatar and you are between a king most mighty and queen most wise.
G. Tulkas utúlië, ar Melkor nurtanë nu Utumno.
I don't know if this one has an error. Perhaps you'd change nurtane to perfect, to keep the tense consistent? If so, "unurtië". Tulkas has come, and Melkor hid under Utumno.
H. Utúliel ar ecéniel, (now) leruval i móli.
leryuval You have come and you have read, now you shall free the slaves.
I. Elen alantië, ar seldo meruva. [mer- ~ to wish].
A star has fallen, and a boy shall wish.:)

[Elennainie]

I was wondering about "2.E. I will summon you and you will speak to me." I think we need a dative case for the pronoun "me", rather than putting a pronomial ending on the verb and getting "quentuvalyen", since "to me" is an indirect, not direct object here. A person does not speak another person; he speaks to another person. What do you think? I have also asked the question in the Languages section. No one has answered yet, though.
http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=240964#post240964

Also, Sam, ;) would you like me to make some sentences for you to translate also?

[gate7ole]

Elennainie,
This is one of the questions that we cannot answer with the current knowledge we have. My guess would be that we would use a preposition and the pronoun attached to it. But we can only guess.
So, I have this proposition: Let’s keep a list of all the questions that are left unanswered and see if at the following chapters they are answered. So, we will keep track of the questions we may have.
This is one question that belongs to such a list. The other is the tenses of “ná” and its union with the pronominal endings (if it is acceptable or not). If at the end of the course there are still unanswered questions, we can e-mail the professor. He already answered me in an e-mail I sent him and he seems willing to help if we have some problems.

And one question we discussed before and I may have found the solution: What happens when we want to write: “The lions eat it”
Our first assumption was that this is wrong: “I Rávi matars”
We were correct. The ending “-r” is probably substituted by the ending “-s”, so the sentence is: “I Rávi matas”
I’m not totally sure, though, so let’s keep this on our list too.

List so far:
1. Verbs with an indirect object (e.g. speak). How is the object translated? As a pronominal ending?
2. Tenses of the copula (ná) and its union with the pronominal endings.
3. What happens to the ending “-s” when it is put to a verb in plural? Does it replace the ending “-r”?

[Elennainie]

Originally posted by gate7ole
So, I have this proposition: Let’s keep a list of all the questions that are left unanswered and see if at the following chapters they are answered. So, we will keep track of the questions we may have.
Sounds good. Additionally, in our exercises, then, let's stick to just the stuff we know is correct.

If at the end of the course there are still unanswered questions, we can e-mail the professor. He already answered me in an e-mail I sent him and he seems willing to help if we have some problems. Wow! You emailed Fauskanger? That's great that he is willing to help us. What exactly was your question and what was his reply? I'd love to see the email, that is, only if it's o.k. with you. He's like a celebrity for us Quenya students! :D

And one question we discussed before and I may have found the solution: What happens when we want to write: “The lions eat it”
Our first assumption was that this is wrong: “I Rávi matars”
We were correct. The ending “-r” is probably substituted by the ending “-s”, so the sentence is: “I Rávi matas”
I’m not totally sure, though, so let’s keep this on our list too. Where did you find the answer to this question? I did find the following in lesson one, "Consonant clusters or double consonants are not normally found at the end of words, though they may occur if a final vowel drop sout (is ellided) because the next word begins in the same or a similar vowel....The only genuine consonant cluster occurring at the end of a word seems to be nt used a specific grammatical ending (dual dative)..."
"-rs", it seems to me, is a consonantal cluster, so perhaps the -r does drop out. Let's keep it on the unanswered question list, though, as you suggested.

3. What happens to the ending “-s” when it is put to a verb in plural? Does it replace the ending “-r”? I would also add, "What happens to the "-r" at the end of a plural verb, when any ending is added?" E.g. they will die - is it firuvantë or firuvarntë?


Would you like those sentences I made?

[gate7ole]

About the answer to question 3 (like the example you gave with the phrase: they will die, it says in the chapter 10 (which I haven't read, just searched for what you're looking here), that the "r" is replaced.
So, the correct is: firuvantë.
I guess we could apply this to the ending "-s". BUT this ending is normally used as an object:
the men are eating it
i neri matar (it)
Applying it would become:
i neri matas
But in this way, the plural of the verb is lost and one must look the subject to understand if it is plural or singular. while at the previous example "firuvantë", we understand by the ending that it is plural. So my point is that it may not be correct to substitute the "r". I hope it is cleared sometime later in the course.

About the e-mail to Fauskanger, I just asked him some time ago to prepare a test for us. He kindly refused, but just the fact that he answered us means that he cares about questions etc.
(And I didn't keep it unfortunately)

PS. I forgot to say that you don't need to write any questions for me, I had my practice by preparing the exercices. Thanks anymway. We will practice more on IM.

[Elennainie]

Thanks for finding that in chapter 10. The other Quenya student I told you about said the same thing about firuvante, i.e. that the plural ending -r should be replaced by the ending -ntë. But, as you said, we still don't know about the -s ending. Oh well.

About IM practice, would a little earlier, at 22:00 GMT Sunday be good for you? You can PM me if you want. Cenuvanyel on i aure of i Anar, hina of Ulmo!

[gate7ole]

Keys to some of the exercises


1. Correct sentences:
A. I seldo amápië minë tiuca parma ar ecendies.
B. Ihírienyes firin nu i sar
C. I ohtar roitëa rávi, an i rávi amátier rimbë móli.
D. I úmëa nér lalanë, an ilyë Eldar caitaner firini or i talan.
E. Firuvan, an ahárien i harma Naucoron.
F. Alaitiel Ilúvatar, ar nályë imbë antaura aran ar assaila tári.
G. Tulkas utúlië, ar Melkor nurtanë nu Utumno.
H. Utúliel ar ecéniel, (now) leryuval i móli.
I. Elen alantië, ar seldo meruva.

3.
-Aragorn mápanë i macil, ortanes ar quentë: “Nyë, Elessar, ar limbë antaurë ohtari utúlier ar elérier i firini néri. (None) roituvan.”
-I (prophecy) quentë: “(As) aran tuluval ar turuval i lië. Neri laituval, an metyuvalyes ar leryuval (them).”


4.
Nan Aran. Tuluvan. Leryuvanyel. Laituvalyen ar meluvalyen. Ortuvan. Haryuvan rimbë harmar. Lantuvan ar nurtuva. Roituvalyen ar hiruvan. Firuvan.
Anien Aran. Utúlien. Elérienyel. Alaitielyen ar emélielyen. Orortien. Ahárien rimbë harmar. Alantien ar unurtie. Oroitielyen ar ihírien. Ifírien.

[Elennainie]

Woops, sorry, I had these exercises done on paper, but forgot to post my answers:o :

2.
A. Otso néri roitaner i rá ar mances. (mac- = to slay; I think we only know "to die" so far)
B. Atani turuvar Ambar ar Eldar autuvar.
C. I War metyanë ar rimbë Atani ifírier.
D. Naucor unurtier nu i oron.
E. Tultavanyel ar quentuvalyë (to me).
F. I Aran unurtië imbëi ohtari ar i móli.
G. Tullë ar roitanë i úmië ohtari an nan i Aran.
H. Imbë Anar ar Isil, rimbë eleni silir.
I. Rimbë arani orortier ar alantier or Ambar.
Nal Aran. Tuluvan. Leryuvanyel. Laituvalyen ar meluvalyen. Ortuvan. Haryuvan rimbë harmar. Lantuvan ar nurtuva. Roituvalyen ar hiruvan. Firuvan.
About #4 using future: Wouldn't "I am a King" be "Nan aran"? "Nal aran" means "You are a king." Also, wouldn't "You will pursue me and will find me" be "hiruvalyen" for "will find me", because "you" is the understood subject of the verb?

About #4 using perfect: Shouldn't it be "Anien" for "I have been a king"? Also, there should not be an accent over the "o" in "orortien" because of the consonantal cluster "rt". And I think it would be "unurtien" for "I have hidden."

Gate7ole, could you please check my remaining answers, so we can finish discussion of 8 before we get too far into 9? It'll be less confusing for anyone else who uses our exercises. Thanks, tol dweller! ;) (tol = island)

[Elennainie]

Lesson 9: The infinitive, negative verb & active participle

Infinitive
The infinitive is translated in English as the verb, preceded by the word "to", e.g. "to laugh", "to sing". By itself, the infinitive cannot function as the predicate of a sentence. It is used to combine several verbs in one sentence.

Examples:
Polin quetë..............."I can speak", or, literally, "I am able to speak."
Merin cenda..........I want to read

To form the infinitive:
primary stem verbs: stem + -ë (no -r in plural)
a-stem verbs: identical to verb stem (no -r in plural)

Note that the infinitive will look like an ending-less aorist tense verb.

Negative verb:
-um = "not to be" and "not to do"

The negative verb "-um" can be used as a negative copula (the opposite of ná).

Examples:
I mÓl umë saila.............The slave is not wise.
Umin Nauco...................I am not a dwarf.

-um is somewhat irregular in its conjugation:
present = úma (singular), úmar (plural)
past = úmë (singular), úmir (plural)
future = úva (singular), úvar (plural)
aorist = umë (singular with no endings), umin (singular with 1st person ending), umir (plural)

The negative verb "-um" can also probably ve combined with infinitives, to mean "do not", "does not", although we lack attested examples.

Examples:
Aiwa umë cenda parmar............A bird does not read books.
Sardi umir linda..........................Stones do not sing.

Participles
Active participles are verb-derived words used as adjectives, and are able to take an object. In English, they have the ending
“-ing”, for example “the gleaming sword”. The active participle “gleaming” is an adjective describing the noun “sword”. However, not every English word ending in “-ing” is an active participle; only those that are verbal adjectives, not those that are verbal nouns.

Examples:
Ilcala Isil ná vanya......................The gleaming Moon is beautiful.
lálala Nauco.................................laughing Dwarf
túrala aran...................................governing king

but NOT: Laughing is fun. (here “laughing” is used as a verbal noun)

To form:
primary stem verbs: stem + -ala, and lengthen stem vowel
a-stem verbs: stem + -la, and lengthen stem vowel

If the stem vowel occurs twice in the stem, lengthen the second occurence of the vowel. As always, do not lengthen the stem vowel if it is followed by a consonantal cluster.

[gate7ole]

A. Translate
1. All Men are not evil. (But) many Men have praised Morgoth
2. Two boys couldn’t raise the biggest sword.
3. A daring man will be able to pursue the dying lion
4. I did not dare to stop, for I heard the warriors pursuing me.
5. The maiden reading a book, saw a shining star fall into the Sea.
6. You won’t want to travel through the World and not find one treasure.
7. I will not free you, because you will scare the singing birds.

8. Naucor umir linda ar Eldar umir fire.
9. Atani alantier an Atani merner turë Ambar.
10. Úval quetë, an umil verya pusta i úmëa aran.



B. Translate this short story (finally we can write a decent story)
You will go into the house and will wield the greatest sword. You will hear the birds singing and the maidens laughing. You do not want to die. (But) you will dare to pursue the terrifying lion. You will find it and it will die. (Then) the people will praise you and you will be a king.

[Elennainie]

Did you have a chance to look over the rest of my lesson 8 answers? And what did you think about this from lesson 8:About #4 using future: Wouldn't "I am a King" be "Nan aran"? "Nal aran" means "You are a king." Also, wouldn't "You will pursue me and will find me" be "hiruvalyen" for "will find me", because "you" is the understood subject of the verb?

A. (Sorry, my computer won’t do capital U’s with an accent for some weird reason.)
1. Ilyë Atani umir úmië. (But) rimbë Atani alaitier Morgoth.
2. Atta seldor úmer polë orta i analta macil. I’m nor sure about this one – do we know how to do “could not” yet? Is it literally “were not (úmer) able to (polë)”, like I have it?
3. Veryala nér polluva roita i fírala rá.
4. úmen verya pusta, an hlarnen i ohtari roitalan.
5. I vendë cendala parma, cennë sílala elen lanta? (would “falling”, “lantala” be o.k. here?) mir i ëar.
6. úval merë lelya ter i Ambar ar ? hirë minë harma.
7. úvan leryal, an ruhtuval i lindala aiwi.
8. Dwarves donot sing, and Elves do not die.
9. Men have fallen because Men wished to rule the World.
10. You will not speak, for you do not dare to stop the evil king.

[Elennainie]

B.
Lelyuval mir i coa ar turuval i analta macil. Hlaruval i aiwi lindala ar i vendë lálala. Umil firë. (But) veryuval roita i ruhtala rá. Hiruvalyes ar firuvas. (Then) i lië laituval ar nauval aran.


C. Translate:
1. Singing birds can fall between trees, for (they) are not wise.
2. A laughing warrior will not guard the terrifying lions.
3. Because the gate is great, the black horse did not wish to jump it. The gate frightened (him). (not sure if an infinitive can take a pronomial ending, what do you think?)
4. A king can govern a people (but he) will not control the Sea.
4b. The boy hears the sea and sees the Sun shining and he loves (them).

5. Anar ruhta umië (orcs) ar (they) umir verya lelya nu Anar.
6. Isil sillë ter i aldar ar mernen cene i aran, an mellen (him).
7. Merin hlarë (you) quetala Quenya. (so borrow a microphone, please!) :)
8. Tolto Naucor mapaner Elda tecala parma, an (they) úmer merë cendë i parma.

D. Answer:
1. In which verb tenses do you lengthen the stem vowel?
2. Which verb tenses have nasal infixion?
3. Does a participle agree in number with the noun it describes?

[gate7ole]

About my mistakes you mentioned at the previous chapter, there are two that I doubt whether they are really errors.
It is the general example:
I write and read.
How is it translated?
Tecan ar cendean
Or
Tecan ar cendeä

In other words, can the subject be omitted when the verbs are joined with a conjunction (ar~and)?
My opinion is that the subject can be omitted (like most actual languages). Of course, there is the problem of understanding if at the phrase:
Roituvalyen ar hiruvan
the verb hiruva have the ending -n for object or subject. Anyway, I think the omission is acceptable. What do you think?

For your answers of chapter 8:
Just two minor errors, probably caused only by carelessness:
E. Tultavanyel -> Tultuvanyel
G. You forgot the pronoun.


About the answer of chapter 9:
A.
2. We