Two Towers Movie Review - Spoilers!

[Undomiel]

* Major Spoilers in Link! *

Two Towers Review (http://www.lightsoutentertainment.com/movies/reviews.php?filmID=2&reviewID=31)

* Extreme Spoilers *




In the end, Frodo, Sam, & Gollum are taken to Gondor where Orcs are already attacking the city. In the aforementioned change of heart that Faramir has, he releases Frodo, Sam, & Gollum back into the wild to complete their mission. Before they leave, Frodo, being controlled by the ring, is summoned to the top of a structure in Gondor where a Ringwraith flying a winged creature tries to snatch the ring from Frodo's grasp. The Ringwraith is shot by arrows from the men of Gondor and Frodo is taken down the steps by Samwise.

That's the one scene I really can't see how they can justify as it seems to make a lot of the story meaningless . Yes, in the books Frodo and Sam sense a Flying Nazgul far above but if the Nazgul actually knows that Frodo has the Ring and is only a few miles from the border of Mordor then the whole ruse of pretending that Aragorn has the Ring seems pretty pointless.

I suppose the Nazgul might report to Sauron that the Hobbit was captured by the Gondorians, which would make Sauron send his army against Minas Tirith. He might also think that Aragorn has the Ring when he marches to Mordor but the fact that Frodo has been captured actully in Mordor should really give the game away

I know Sauron supposedly can't conceive of anyone actully wanting to destroy the Ring but he has to be pretty dumb not to put the pieces together.

"Faramir holds his stature until the very end, where in an extraordinary change in character, releases Frodo & Sam, and gives his life to do so."

The review seems to imply that Faramir dies...don't know what to make of it if it's true and not sure how it makes for the story-arc overall... feeling very puzzled right now. Faramir's charactor sounds shot to hell.

Aragorn Off A Cliff

Why have Aragorn jump onto a Warg and ride over a cliff to then float down a river? I know this will in some way mirror Isildur's end, continuing PJ's love of circular themes and visual echoes - but it is just nuts. Are we going to get yet another confused look from Legolas...a restrained Gimli bawling in slow-mo and Theodon shedding tears? The mind boggles. How many friggin death and resurrection scenes can one film handle?

As for the review - well, er, looks like things certainly are going to be different, and annoyingly so in certain respects. Then again, other parts look very, very good indeed. Guess we'll have to wait and see for more reviews in the coming days.

[Niniel]

I read the whole review, and I felt most of it was reassuring. Of course there are some changes, but as a whole it sounded as if PJ stuck more to the book than he did in FOTR. Only the end seems completely different from the book and also from what I expected it to be. I am a bit upset by the Faramir part; he is one of my favourite characters and I wouldn't like it if they made him someone completely different from the book. I'm still desperately looking forward to seeing TTT...

[Thorin]

DRECK!!! Absolute DRECK!!!!! :mad:

Frodo and Sam in Gondor??? A Ringwraith trying to get the ring?? Can anyone see at least three major problems with this "vision" and "interpretation"?????

1) Frodo and Sam being at Gondor is ridiculous
2) Faramir acting like Boromir and then deciding to let them go?? Honestly, if the ring was in Gondor, would Denethor just let it go? I think that is why Tolkien found a middle ground.
3) The ringwraith and therefore Sauron knowing that the hobbit has the ring and is in Gondor. Do I even need to point out the myriad of problems and contradictions this creates??

Aragorn "dying" in the water and being revived by "the spirit" of Arwen?

How absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary. Surely, Talimon, you will not support such ludicrous changes?

[Leto]

The review worries me...but that is lessened a little by the fact that the reviewer obviously doesn't know the book very well, and hasn't even read Return of the King yet. From the trailer description, it says that Frodo and Sam are brought to Osgiliath, while it is 'under siege'. Definately I am sad that they had to change Faramir's character, just like Aragorn. It seems that everyone needs a 'character arc' to make the story more 'dramatic'. The ringwraith thing is ridiculous. Another scene I'm sure I'll be shuddering at, just like Arwen's scenes at the ford...and this one is the climax of the movie. *sigh* I know, I know...I haven't seen it yet, and shouldn't judge yet...but on the virtue that this is 'wrong'...not just an interpretation but wrong...I can say without viewing that I will not like those parts, however well they 'fit' in the movie. Aragorn having a near death experience hopefully will bring him around to being more the Aragorn we should have been seeing from the beginning. Hoping that Helm's Deep isn't messed up too much...the one part that I'm sure they spent a whole lot of time on in the movie. We know Elves are going to be there...can overlook that. As long as the climax is right...with Theoden deciding to ride forth at dawn, to face overwhelming odds, blasting the horn of the hornburg...seeing the hordes that haven't even come to battle and being dismayed, until Gandalf come to the rescue with Erkenbrand!

I'm sure even this expectation is too much.

Lord only knows what Frodo and Sam will be doing in Mordor...probably fighting orcs, instead of hiding, being chased by Nazgul again...*sigh*

[Talimon]

How absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary. Surely, Talimon, you will not support such ludicrous changes?

It is quite apparent from these ramblings that I respect my own objectivity much more then anyone else here seems to respect thier own. I have stated before that I will not pass judgement until seeing the film, and am completely prone to having negative opinions regarding it. I liked FotR because I felt it was a worthy adaptation as well as a very good movie. TTT can easily dissapoint me, and I will not be in any sort of denial if it does. I am going to let the movie tell it's tale, and I am coming in with an open mind. Much more then I can (apparently) say for others.

I might add this other review here from AICN:

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=13950

[PRH]

I'm going to try to hold out on reading reviews since they go far beyond isolated spoilers.

I'm also prepared for TTT to be a much looser adaptation of the book than FOTR was. I resigned myself to that reality long ago. I'm just expecting a good movie now, not a true-to-the-book one. In fact, if TTT was translated literally to screen, I think we'd have just a bunch of episodes and not a complete feeling movie on our hands. I gotta lean in favor of a complete movie over a true adaptation. The book still exists.

[Talimon]

The book still exists.

Sometimes I think forum-goers on this forum would be much better off were those 4 words pasted at the top of every page.

[Glamdring]

For me, reading that review made me even more exited about seeing the movie. You have to realize that it is IMPOSSIBLE to make an exact translation of an entire book. In order to keep the storyline reasonable, changes have to be made. Being a big tolkien fan myself, I don't like a lot of the changes PJ made, but I respect them as a seperate entity from the books. If you absolutely cannot stand the changes, then just don't see the movie. Let the rest of us enjoy it for what it is, not hate it for what it isn't. (wow, that was deep)

[Talimon]

Might as well keep posting the reviews in one spot. Here is another:

http://www.filmjerk.com/reviews/rings2.html

[Mrs. Maggott]

Originally posted by Nóm
No kidding. If this is true, then all I can do is shake my head and laugh. Sincerely: what are people to think when everyone returns from an assumed death. I mean, how many non-readers (or dare I say even readers) will begin to expect Boromir's return? On the other hand, someone did start a thread about the fact they read at a website that Sean bean will be in TROTK. Maybe he will! As Boromir returns at that.

Awhile back I said that I will probably be okay with deviations from the story in the book because I have gotten used to such things with the last movie, but now I am starting to wonder. Now that we are nearing the big day, I find myself torn much like I was after seeing FOTR, do I look forward to enjoying this movie, or am I in fear of what I will see? I think rather, I look forward to answering that question.

Could very well be that PJ will butcher this movie to such an extent that it breaks hearts that people were ever unhappy with fotr which in comparison could be the standard to which TTT is measured, rather than the book which might be so far away that any attempts at comparison are in vain.


The simple fact is that many people have forwarned that the changes Jackson wrought in the story in FOTR were merely faint images of what would be coming after; that is, in the next two films. To begin with, there had to be changes in the remaining films because of the changes that were made in the first one. And, of course, the more changes made in TTT, the more and larger the changes that will have to be made in ROTK to accommodate these changes.

It is very much the same as all the scenes that were "pushed" out of TTT to make room for Jackson's version thereof. At least some of these have to be in ROTK (Shelob?), but there is quite a bit of action in that movie in and of itself. Therefore, ROTK could very well turn into a sort of "French farce" with people running around doing all sorts of things in order to get all the "loose ends" tied up before the final credits roll.

But the so-called "purists" long ago warned that TTT would be far less "true" to the original story than FOTR and that the matter would probably only get worse thereafter! Indeed, Jackson himself said that TTT would be the least "faithful" of the films! My suggestion is that whomever is going to see the film do so and FORGET THE BOOK! Then one may judge the film internally - was it a good film or not? - without getting caught up in the "check list" of what is and what isn't "in the book".

[Thorin]

Originally posted by Mrs. Maggott
My suggestion is that whomever is going to see the film do so and FORGET THE BOOK! Then one may judge the film internally - was it a good film or not? - without getting caught up in the "check list" of what is and what isn't "in the book".

And as far as I'm concerned, that is total bunk. Nobody who considers himself a fan of JRR Tolkien first and foremost, will be able to go into the movie theatre with a "clean slate" as far as Tolkien is concerned. Especially when you are faced with true scenes and dialogue that remind you of why you like Tolkien to begin with. How then can the scenes which are FAR from Tolkien not effect you in the opposite way? It was because of our love for the story, characters and plot of Tolkien that we are seeing the movie to begin with. Can you not be affected either way as to how it compares to Tolkien?

I can understand how one can become sensitized to many of the changes and get past it to enjoy the rest of the movie that is true (as I did with the EE of FotR..with the obvious exception of Arwen), but to go in their and not wince or cheer from the scenes that you recognize or do not as being Tolkien? I don't think so. IMO, you have to not give a care about Tolkien to go in and forget the book.

[Mrs. Maggott]

I was speaking about judging the merits of the film as film and nothing else. Considering my past posts on this and other threads, I do not think there can be a doubt as to where I stand in the film v. book debate. However, if one wishes to do as Talimon asks - that is, to judge the film as a film and not how well or poorly it follows the original story, then perforce, one must forget the original story. There is simply no other way that such a judgment can be made! To continue comparisons to the book while watching the film will not only badly annoy many lovers of the book, but will certainly prevent them from exercising much in the way of decernment concerning the relative merits of the film as a film; that is, internally.

If after determining that the films is good - or bad - as a film, one wishes to then compare its legitimacy as something entitled "Lord of the Rings" (or The Two Towers), that is another matter altogether. However, I should imagine that even Mr. Jackson's stauchest defenders (from what they have learned about TTT to date) will not be making too many assertions that Jackson "captured the essence" of the book in the film.

In my opinion, judging the film as a film and judging the film vis a vie the book are in fact, two different things that cannot be accomplished simultaneously.

[Glamdring]

Originally posted by Mrs. Maggott
My suggestion is that whomever is going to see the film do so and FORGET THE BOOK! Then one may judge the film internally - was it a good film or not? - without getting caught up in the "check list" of what is and what isn't "in the book".
I completly agree.
And these movies could be soooo much worse. I accept PJ's changes and enjoy his movies. Personally I think he made some dang good films, based on some great books. Movies are never as good as the books they were based on anyway. LOTR is no exception.

[Mrs. Maggott]

Movies are never as good as the books they were based on anyway. <quote Glamdring>

That's not always so. Jaws the movie was better than Jaws the book and there have been others that have been if not better, than certainly as good as the book from which they were scripted. The first Jurassic Park and certainly, The Godfather, which was a true movie classic. The British "Night to Remember" from Walter Lord's book of that name was splendid. Captain Blood (where Errol Flynn plays Rafael Sabatini's swashbuckling hero), the original Scarlet Pimpernel, the original Robin Hood and the original Ivanhoe, The Maltese Falcon - oh there are a host of good films, new and old that were worthy of the books from which they sprang.

However, in most of these cases, you will find that the screenwriter tried very hard to always be mindful of what made the book great or even just good when he wrote the screenplay. When that happens and the director puts in excellent visuals coupled with a good cast, you get a cracker-jack film worthy of its literary inspiration! :)

[chrome_rocknave]

Frodo and Sam in GONDOR??? :mad: And I thought I was ticked off when Arwen replaced Glorfindel.... This can't even be justified---at least when Arwen took over the Ford scene it was to introduce her character. There is absolutely no need to take Frodo and Sam to Gondor! I was actually excited about TTT....but now I'm completely crestfallen!!

[Mrs. Maggott]

Frodo and Sam in GONDOR??? And I thought I was ticked off when Arwen replaced Glorfindel.... This can't even be justified---at least when Arwen took over the Ford scene it was to introduce her character. There is absolutely no need to take Frodo and Sam to Gondor! I was actually excited about TTT....but now I'm completely crestfallen!! <quote chrome_rocknave>

Now, really, how can you say that! Obviously, taking Frodo and Sam from Ithilien into Osgiliath, then having them attacked by orcs, Nazgul (whatever) while Faramir decides whether to do a Boromir or be a good guy (great angst going on here), and then having them escape/leave and retrace their steps back through Ithilien (with whatever Gollum is doing during this little "excursion") was put in to cut down on all that stuff that Tolkien had in the story which made it so, you know, long! It was all done, you know, for reasons of time constraints. Yeah... Sure..... uh huh........... :rolleyes: :confused: :rolleyes:

[chrome_rocknave]

Maybe they were afraid that all the idiots out there would forget Gondor existed....

my intense anger cannot EVEN be described.....so trust me...I'm irate right now...hopefully once I see the movie it won't be as bad as I'm suspecting

[Mablung]

Well it kind of makes sense for those who have never read the books all the Gondor references would just confuse them and they probably wouldn't understand the importance either without seeing it.

[Fimbrethil]

I tend to think of Ithilian as an abandoned part of Gondor.....they wander through its empty woods, much of which lies under the shadow of the dark mountians, and much of which is full of orcs and southernors. However still it is considered a kind of ...lost land.

Faramir becomes prince of Ithilian, does he not?

[Talimon]

Seriously though... Ithilien is quite part of Gondor, for those of you who have forgotten. I'm not defending what I haven't seen, but I do have to mention that in the book Faramir does go to Osgiliath after letting Frodo and Sam go. Indeed, Minas Morgul was at one point considered part of Gondor (being under a different name, of course).

[Niniel]

Bu they're not actually taken all the way to Minas Tirith or something; just to Osgiliath and then Faramir lets them go (of course I don't like the whole thing either, Faramir was one of my favourite characters and it sounds like they spoilt it completely).