OiE-TTW: Organization [Archive]

Walter

12-05-2002, 11:59 AM

This thread will serve to discuss organizational issues of the OiE-TTW joint venture project as it is discussed here (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7529). Everyone is welcome to join and make suggestions about the organization or how s/he would be willing to partake.

Team-lists:

General Organization team:
Ancalagon
Lhunithiliel
Walter

Book descriptions, biographies and bibliography:
n/a
n/a
Walter

FAQ (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7611):
gate7ole
Nóm
Walter

Essays and Summaries:
Turgon
Arvedui
Lhunithiliel

Discussions/debates:
Grond
n/a
Walter

I would ask everyone who would be willing to join one of the organizational teams above to state this in a post and I will add your name to the list above.

Ancalagon

12-07-2002, 07:33 PM

Thanks for posting this Walter;)

I will look at trying to sift through a 'time-table' and 'rota' of sorts once we know who is actively participating, subjects etc. I think this will help us in setting some deadlines to submit completed works. It may be that some are fairly small, descriptive works, others may be larger, more elaborate submissions. In addition, I would hope that we could prioritise the subjects as they come in.

Arvedui

12-09-2002, 07:40 AM

I want to continue contributing the way I have until now: To add information wherever I find the need to do so. Hopefully I will be able to join more actively after a while, but I cannot state right now, how much I will be able to do in the future.

There are two reasons for that: First of all, my time is a little limited, and second, my knowledge of Tolkien is somewhat limited to the few books I own. So that when someone debates something from the HoME-series, for example, I cannot join. *weep, weep*

Walter

12-09-2002, 10:38 AM

Anc, that's a good idea, I will help to set the priorities as soon as we get a list of themes/topics/subjects...

Arvedui, no problem, I think we all have other duties/commitments as well. Any help is appreciated :)

Grond

12-10-2002, 12:27 AM

I've been absent from the forum for a while with both my own illness and family illnesses but I hope to be able to contribute in some manner to this wonderful project.

Walter, I would appreciate you putting me in whatever category you feel I will be of the most use. I'll try not to state opinions as facts. :);)

Walter

12-10-2002, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Grond
I've been absent from the forum for a while with both my own illness and family illnesses but I hope to be able to contribute in some manner to this wonderful project.

Walter, I would appreciate you putting me in whatever category you feel I will be of the most use. I'll try not to state opinions as facts. :);) Thanks, Grond, your help will be much appreciated. If you don't mind I'll put you into the debates/discussing team where the somewhat more complex or controversial issues will be dealed with...

Arvedui

12-10-2002, 10:49 AM

I think you might put me in the 'summaries' section. That is what I have done, after all.;)

Walter

12-10-2002, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by Arvedui
I think you might put me in the 'summaries' section. That is what I have done, after all.;) Thanks - would you prefer the teamleader or deputy position?

Arvedui

12-10-2002, 11:26 AM

I would prefer a deputy position.

Walter

12-10-2002, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Arvedui
I would prefer a deputy position.
Done...

Turgon

12-11-2002, 07:28 AM

I would like to submit my application for a role in the summaries team. Though I feel a little like Frodo saying 'I will take the Ring, though I do not know the way.'

I'm still a little confused as to the nature of the project (its means, not its ends) and have been wondering about the possibility of a trial run, you know some kind of simple debate like erm... Do Balrogs have wings? (hehe - just kidding) that way everybody can see how this thing will run and how the organization will fit into place. Does that make sense?

Lhunithiliel

12-11-2002, 08:16 AM

If there is still a position available, I'd like to be in the Essays-Summaries Team. I am better in this.
I haven't posted this earlier, as I thought that the members of the General Organization Team did not have the right to be in other teams :confused:

Walter

12-11-2002, 10:50 AM

Turgon,

thanks for your participation here, I added you on top of the list (if that's okay with you).

For operational purposes I have suggested two separate teams for Essays/Summaries and Discussions/Debates (If that was wise only time will tell...;)).

What I had in mind for both teams was to create/collect a list of Essays and Summaries of such topics, people would like to learn a little more about in a "Tolkien-knowledgebase" (e.g. the "Barrow-wights", the history of Rohan, the "Doom of the Noldor", the "Religions of Arda", whether Melkor is evil by will or by nature, whether or not Balrogs have wings, to name but a few which immediatly came to my mind). This could be either one list for all these topics or already two separated lists, one for each team.

After those topic-lists are collected, the Essays/Summaries team should focus on those topics where there is a general consensus about the issue (e.g. History of Rohan) and create an essay/summary (created either individually by a single member or as a teamwork).

The Discussion/Debates team should deal with those topics where some dissensus must/will remain (and two or more interpretations are possible and maybe equally valid), organize the discussions (if necessary) and try to resume the discussion and find a summary-statement which represents the outcome of the discussion.

All teams should feel free to organize a "trial-run" (before the topic-lists are collected, or parallel to it) as seen fit.

----
Lhun,

I added you (instead of ol me) to the Essays/Summaries team...

gate7ole

12-12-2002, 02:12 AM

I would also like to contribute. Since the only free spot is at the Discussions/Debates, you can put me in that category.

Lhunithiliel

12-12-2002, 07:08 AM

Thank you, Walter !
Arvedui, Turgon, if you wish, let's get to work. :)
Any particular suggestions, ideas, observations.... on your mind?

I am happy to be in a team with you! :)

Gate7ole, I am so glad to see you are joining the Project!

Lhun

Arvedui

12-12-2002, 08:19 AM

I believe that Walter had a good idea just to get started. I think we could start with Rohan, just to get organized and find out how we get this 'on the road'. But I'm open for you ideas as well. If you have any special interests, please go ahead. I'm ready for, almost, anything.

Really happy to be teamed up with both of you as well. Looks like there is quite some knowledge gathered in the project for the time beeing:)

Walter

12-12-2002, 08:25 AM

Originally posted by gate7ole
I would also like to contribute. Since the only free spot is at the Discussions/Debates, you can put me in that category. I gladly put you in there, but the FAQ and Books/Authors team have also vacant positions still...

----
Also, I would encourage the organizational teams to recruit more members for their teams (the teams aren't necessarily limited to 3 people, only the committee of each team is, but even the latter could be subject to discussion), and to open a separate thread (like the FAQ thread) to list their teams and discuss their procedings...

Nóm

12-12-2002, 05:18 PM

I will contribute to the Wiki site as far as I am qualified to do. If anyone has anything for me to do just let me know. I don't have all of the HoMe books, and most of what I do have is still unread, but I'll lend a hand where I can.

Walter

12-12-2002, 07:11 PM

Originally posted by Nóm
I will contribute to the Wiki site as far as I am qualified to do. If anyone has anything for me to do just let me know. I don't have all of the HoMe books, and most of what I do have is still unread, but I'll lend a hand where I can. Thanks, your help will be much appreciated, Nóm. :) You could either join the FAQ or books organization team, or eventually do one or two of the Compendium entries listed here (http://www.tolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?TolkienWikiProjects#ToDo) or join any other team...

gate7ole

12-12-2002, 11:05 PM

Oh Walter, I misunderstood the FAQ category. After checking it, I found it very interesting. Could you please move me there? And probably PM me with some info about what I'm supposed to do?

PS. sorry for the confusion I cause

Walter

12-13-2002, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by gate7ole
Oh Walter, I misunderstood the FAQ category. After checking it, I found it very interesting. Could you please move me there? And probably PM me with some info about what I'm supposed to do?

PS. sorry for the confusion I cause Done, no problem. Btw. I just added the two "Battles" you sent me, I'll PM you once again lateron today and fill you in with some details...

Turgon

12-13-2002, 10:59 AM

Well I've been mulling over the idea of using Rohan as a tester for the Tolkien Wiki project and come up with one or two questions. I'd appreciate any feedback

Taking as an example the suggested entry for Rohan.

Firstly how will this entry differ from a normal compedium entry? Will it be a complete guide to the history of Rohan, with links to the relevant entries in the compendium? A Tale of Years, Line of Kings, Important People and Events, Essays on the Rohirrim and their language and so on? Not really sure if this is the format envisioned by the other members, though I think it does have it's merits. For instance, it would be a great aid to casual searchers in their navigation of the Tolkien Wiki. (as opposed to using the search function or recent changes) Not really sure if this is what is being envisioned, so any other ideas?

Secondly where will the day to day work take place. Taking Rohan as the example again, and Lhun, Arvedui and myself as a sample team. Would it be wise for us to open a sort of 'Rohan Sandbox' on the wiki in which we can work with our ideas, raw texts and on the final product? TTF for example has the drawback of being linear in its posting system whereas the Wiki will give us all access to the same work space. How do others envision this cooperation taking place?

That's about it really, any thoughts?

Lhunithiliel

12-13-2002, 02:24 PM

Turgon, as the TTF - members are invited to contribute to TW, I think it is better we discuss all matters here. This is why I opened a thread. There I posted my understanding of organizing things in the Essay/Summaries section. Please, check it up and say what you think.
I think TW must be the "final destination" of the ready-made things.

As for a "sand box" for each team .... Walter should be the one to say. He understands how TW works MUCH better than I do (if I do at all!).

Walter

12-13-2002, 04:57 PM

Turgon,

actually I like your idea a lot. Originally I meant the Compendium pages to be very brief but accurate descriptions of peoples, places, etc.. The recent discussions and developments have led me to reconsider this I think it would be better to still have this brief description at the top of each page, but we could add the longer and more detailed description (e.g. in the case of Rohan: the important events in the history, line of kings, etc.) at the bottom of the Compendium page or - if necessary as sub-pages.

As a working space I would suggest the Wiki, because I think it has a lot of advantages as an authoring tool when more people work on one topic. I already created a sub-page of the Rohan page for this purpose here (http://www.tolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Rohan/TestPage).

----

Lhun,

you made a good start in that thread, please don't hesitate to ask (either Turgon or me) in case of questions concerning the Wiki techniques (but I see you're getting more comfortable with it day by day)

Turgon

12-13-2002, 09:05 PM

I agree Lhun, TTF is the best place to hold discussions and such, but when it comes to actual 'workspace' I think the Wiki is a better place to work from. The 'Rohan Sandbox' is just an example using the Wiki 'Sandbox' as a point of reference. It could just as easily be applied to a 'Do Balrog's have Wings Sandbox' or a 'Gondor Sandbox' or even a 'Gondor Sandwich' the name is not really the important thing. I think one of the beauties of the Wiki is as Walter has said, is its capacity to be used a joint authoring tool.

I'll give an example of what I mean tomorrow in the Rohan page Walter has opened. But the main idea is that we take the Raw Text of a discussion from the forum and place it in the Relevant Sandbox, from there all members of the summary team, the FAQ team, etc. can work on polishing it into a more presentable form, and on the same page we can discuss what we feel is the best form for this Polished Text to take and so on. The Wiki's versatility is ideal for this.

As for the Compendium Entries, Walter, hopefully my example will show you what I envisioned. But the Rohan idea was more of a navigational aid or a linking page, a single page from which the casual browser can view the most important entries on any given subject at a glance without having to go through a text search or search alphabetically through what will soon be a compendious compendium. Actually I'm not sure the Wiki needs such a thing, but it could work well.

Lhunithiliel

12-13-2002, 10:01 PM

OK! :mad:
But why am I getting the impression that we have different understanding of what exactly the Essay/Summaries section was formed for?
As far as I understand it, summaries are to be done not on discussions and/or debates on TTF, but on Tolkien writings. Am I wrong? :confused:

I might be wrong, though..... I might not have understood it well :confused:

I too appreciate the co-author opportunity TW provides. But this concerns the practical work and although it is true that it will be best done there, I think we still lack organization and clear view of what exactly the respective organization-teams are expected to do.
I opened the thread for organization discussion purposes. To my understanding, we should work out the foundation (the organization principles) and then go on "building up" the structure of the project.

And Walt.... I'm learning :p

Walter

12-15-2002, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by Lhunithiliel
OK! :mad:
But why am I getting the impression that we have different understanding of what exactly the Essay/Summaries section was formed for?
As far as I understand it, summaries are to be done not on discussions and/or debates on TTF, but on Tolkien writings. Am I wrong? :confused:

I might be wrong, though..... I might not have understood it well :confused:

I too appreciate the co-author opportunity TW provides. But this concerns the practical work and although it is true that it will be best done there, I think we still lack organization and clear view of what exactly the respective organization-teams are expected to do.
I opened the thread for organization discussion purposes. To my understanding, we should work out the foundation (the organization principles) and then go on "building up" the structure of the project.

And Walt.... I'm learning :p
I created the Essays/Summaries section from a rather pragmatic point of view: Everything that is more detailed - and longer - than a compendium entry , not a book or author and doesn't fit into the FAQ section is considered an essay (and lateron I broadened it to "Essays/Summaries"). So Essays/Summaries could be extracts of books or chapters as well a summary about the dwarves, the palantíri, or the summary of a debate whether or not balrogs have wings...

As for the organization (and teams): I think I would be wrong to say: "This is the concept I have in mind and you are supposed to realize it. I think each team should organize their "own field" (according to how and what the team sees as their field), because this would be a good way to bring in some creativity that is not restricted to my own imagination. And everything the teams come up with as a result, was worth the effort, if

a) the team is content with the results and
b) had some fun doing it...

and if

c) the outcome provides useful for others, interested in Tolkien and his writings, as well, this is as much as we can hope for...

Lhunithiliel

12-15-2002, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by Walter
I created the Essays/Summaries section from a rather pragmatic point of view: Everything that is more detailed - and longer - than a compendium entry , not a book or author and doesn't fit into the FAQ section is considered an essay (and lateron I broadened it to "Essays/Summaries"). So Essays/Summaries could be extracts of books or chapters as well a summary about the dwarves, the palantíri, or the summary of a debate whether or not balrogs have wings...
Logic! True! Only, what would the "Debate"-team do? Forgive me for asking. I thought they were supposed to watch the debates in TTF and summarize the essence and the outcome and prepare it as a TW-entry.

As for the organization (and teams): I think I would be wrong to say: "This is the concept I have in mind and you are supposed to realize it. I think each team should organize their "own field" (according to how and what the team sees as their field), because this would be a good way to bring in some creativity that is not restricted to my own imagination. And everything the teams come up with as a result, was worth the effort, if

a) the team is content with the results and
b) had some fun doing it...

and if

c) the outcome provides useful for others, interested in Tolkien and his writings, as well, this is as much as we can hope for...
Democratic, as always! :D This is precisely why I opened the Essays/Summaries-Team Organization thread for. I wish my team-mates have commented on the matter.

Walter

12-16-2002, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by Lhunithiliel
Logic! True! Only, what would the "Debate"-team do? Forgive me for asking. I thought they were supposed to watch the debates in TTF and summarize the essence and the outcome and prepare it as a TW-entry.Mainly I intended the debate team to deal with those questions where no "final statement" - in form of a consensus - can be found (e.g. the Tom Bombadil issue or the Origin of Orcs). For more details please see my post above (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=199917#post199917).

Nóm

12-18-2002, 03:19 AM

Okay, I'm not doing anything.
I wanted to contribute but I'm not qualified.
Just wanted to make it official so no one wonders "Hey, where'd Nom go? Why's she slacking off?". Well Nom went elsewhere.

Ancalagon

12-18-2002, 04:05 AM

What are you talking about; not qualified? In truth, very few of us can consider ourselves qualified to discuss Tolkien, but that does not mean to say we should not attempt to contribute towards the knowledgebase!

Your contribution is more than welcome, and on a par with, if not better than those who already contribute;)

Lhunithiliel

12-18-2002, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by Ancalagon
.... and on a par with, if not better than those who already contribute;)
Well, Anc, and what is THIS supposed to mean? ;)

Nom, where have you gone? Where is this "elswhere"?

Arvedui

12-18-2002, 07:26 AM

Hey, Nóm! Come back. I personally think that you are indeed very qualified.
Your contribution is more than welcome, and on a par with, if not better than those who already contribute
I second that! Definately!

Walter

12-18-2002, 08:43 AM

Who said you're not qualified?

And who is really qualified? Certainly not me. If it was all about "qualification" I ought to never have started the whole Wiki thing.

Your help would be much appreciated, I hope you will reconsider your decision.

Nóm

12-18-2002, 03:08 PM

Well thanks for the reassurance, but it is me who says that I am not qualified. I see the Wiki as a reliable source of information, and I am not a reliable source. Four months ago if someone asked me to tell them about the place where Frodo went at the end of The Lord of the Rings I would've answered with this: "It is not known as far as I know, I guess we use our imagination". :D Most of what I think I know, I do no not know. If you guys have something I can do I will do it, but I can't just dive into this. As slowly as I am taking it, I wont have read all of this stuff for at least another year, and then it needs time to sink in and for me to think about it enough to put it all together and know the books better.

Nom, where have you gone? Where is this "elswhere"?
Just elsewhere at the forum. Though I've been taking it easy lately.

Lhunithiliel

12-19-2002, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by Nóm
...Just elsewhere at the forum. Though I've been taking it easy lately.
Good for you ;)
But in case you need some excitement, you'd probably wish to work on the issues here (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7763) .

Also, there is a Lecture-topics auction at your former Guild going on. Pick up a topic, find the right information, study it, prepare a lecture.....and there you become more qualified!

Besides, perhaps you have already understood that the Lectures will be published in Tolkien Wiki. This is a good opportunity for you to contribute to the Project.

Also, from what I've seen in your thread about the "Silmarillion" in your former Guild, you can make good summaries. So, pick up an item and summarize it. This is how you can become better acquainted with Tolkien writings, therefore, become more qualified. I'm saying this out of my personal experience.

Besides, Look at the FAQ-section, both here and in TW and add your questions..... this will be another valuable contribution....

You see... knowledge comes when you look for it.... At least this is the case with me :)

I'll be glad to see you "in action"!