Angels and the Valar/Istari

[Goro Shimura]

For when the dead shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven. Mark 12:25

Therefore the Valar may walk, if they will, unclad, and then even the Eldar cannot clearly perceive them, though they be present. But when they desire to clothe themselves the Valar take upon them forms some as of male and some as of female; for thay difference of temper they had even from their beginning, and it is but bodied forth in the choice of each, not made by the choice, even as with us male and female may be shown by the raiment but is not made thereby. Silmarillion, page 11.


Question... Are the Valar like the angels in that they do marry in "heaven"?

[LoreMaster]

Well, according to what I've read, it seems that Tolkien based the earth-bound Ainur off of Genesis 6, in which the "sons of God" marry daughters of men, implying that angelic beings came to Earth(although some don't think of the sons of God as being angelic beings). Perhaps Tolkien thought, based on this passage, that while angels in Heaven don't marry, they can on Earth.

[Leto]

I think this is a way in which the ainur are not exactly like angles as described in the Bible. The passage you quoted might suggest that angels have no gender, and would not 'marry'...though it may not really mean that. I might just mean that in 'heaven', there is no need for such bonding, and when the dead rise they shall be in spirit, where the institutions of religion hold no more meaning. But assuming the first interpretation, the Ainur are unlike, since Tolkien makes it clear that from their beginning, their very essence was predisposed to be 'male' or 'female'...though they could wear any earthly forms they wanted, they chose those which fit their demeanor, being of one gender or the other. Just like, under our clothes, we are still male or female.

I don't imagine just the valar were like this, either, since it seemed to be a part of their nature before they ever entered the world...we can only assume all the ainur are like this...being disposed as either 'male' or 'female'. Personally, I don't see why angels might not be like this as well.

[Goro Shimura]

Originally posted by Leto
As for the Valar...I believe they may fit into the Catholic theology, when one considers the hierarchy of angels. Cherubim and Seraphim would be like those Ainur that never left Eru, never went into the world. I don't remember what order they are in...but thrones, principalities, and powers...or at least one of these...could find their equivalent in the Valar, being those Ainur who were delegated responsibility over certain aspects of material creation. From Letter #153:

"As for 'whose authority decides these things?' The immediate 'authorities' are the Valar (the Powers or Authorities): the 'gods'. But they are only created spirits-- of high angelic order we should say, with their attendant lesser angels-- reverend, therefore, but not worshipful...."

It appears that Tolkien would aggree with you when you say that the New Testament phrase "Principalities and Powers" could conceivably apply to creatures such as the Valar.