The Ents

[Talimon]

I touched on this in my review, but I figured we might as well start a thread about it. I'll get to the point quickly: I believe PJ ought to have straight up cut the Ents from the tale. It was an interesting experiment, but I'm sorry to say it didn't work. I'm not even going to blame PJ here, since I think he did as good a job he could with the resources available. Visually speaking the Ents work fine for me. But in retrospect, what role do they really fill? The more I think about it, the more they appear to fill a Tom Bombadil-type role. Interesting in the book, yes. Cinematic? No. Furthers the plot? Barely. Ultimately thier role is to destroy Isengard. With that we get a little theme of nature-vs-industry. But to me this just isn't necessary. The only legit complaint I can make against PJ's ents is that they weren't given enough screen-time...but then I remember that what screen-time they do have just gets bogged down. So what is the point of having more? I just don't see thier point, and can only assume PJ felt this was too great change from the book to actually commit. Maybe the EE can cure this, but I can't see how. The only thing lacking is the slow pacing, but that is impossible to create in such a movie. But personally I'd have just cut them.

[Beruthiel]

Hmm..if PJ had cut the **** with Aragorn going over the cliff/dream sequences and the side trip that Frodo and Sam took to Osgiliath, there would have been considerably more time to flesh out the Ents plotline. I agree, the pacing was different in that plot than in the others, but that is just poor editing.

[Talimon]

Osgiliath didn't take any extra time, really. Nearly all the scenes that took place there would have taken place anyway, in one shape or form. Aragorn going over the cliff takes us into the Arwens tale, which is closely tied to his. Without that Aragorn wouldn't have nearly as much depth, I'd argue.

I can't complain about how PJ made the ents. My only complaint is that they aren't worth the price of having them. After seeing the movie again this doesn't bother me as much, but I still don't feel they belonged. The one thing these scenes did offer is some really good dialogue for Merry and Pippin (Merry in particular). I really liked how they were played.

[Treebeard86]

Hoom hm...don't be hasty...hasty movie...hmm...did not like how they decided to cut the Ents to only about 20 minutes of movie time...especially because the Ents were major players in the downfall of Isengard...hoom hoo hm...hasty movie...hastiness...Wait now a few other things...shelob, she was not in the Two Towers movie but Gollum/Smeagol makes reference to her...and also Frodo and Sam don't make it into Mordor...hasty movie, trying to cut out so much...hasty...however it was a good move A+:D

[poeticlicense21]

I think the ents should have been cut. Gandalf, Aragorn, and host could have assaulted Isengard in the end after Helm's Deep. Follow the book it wouldn't have but it would have been much more entertaining on screen and its a proven fact that a strict following of the book is not the norm thus far. Much is added and omitted. This wouldn't stetch any further than some other stuff.

As pointed out:

The Ents were glossed over too fast on screen. It was hasty and choppy but then again, when they were on screen it was boring and dragging.

Should of cut em IMO.

Vinnie

[poeticlicense21]

Oh yeah, just want to add that I thought they looked good. Though the transformation to the big screen maes the whole trilogy seem a lot more childish and unrealistic thn the book. Thats another reason that maybe cutting them would have worked. Talking trees flow easier in a book than on tv I would think. Cut them and call it poetic license ;)

[Rogue666666]

I knew it! I never should have come back to the forum! Here in Taiwan the movie won't be released until the 27th, ( which is the date I plan to see it on), And now I find out that Frodo doesnt make it into Mordor, NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! WHY WHY WHY!!?!?!? That would make the movie so much more interesting. No shelob in TTT? So that means they probably make Helms Deep the main attraction. Well, if thats all they can fit into this movie, then how are they going to fit the siege of the white city in AND the final battle? :confused:

Whatever, I'll just have to wait and see it, so that I can make my own judgment upon it.

[PRH]

I think maybe nearly the whole Ent tale should've been told without cutting to another thread, then (dare I say) CUT the storming of Isengard (extremely cool as it was) and just show the flotsam and jetsam aftermath when Gandalf and co. arriving at Isengard for the parley with Saruman. Alternatively, RoTK could start with the storming of Isengard, while TTT is left off with a "sure we won at Helm's Deep, but Isengard is still strong." You quickly get the 2 minute storming of Isengard and the parley with Saruman to start things off in RoTK and maybe we've got something with these Ents.

I agree that the Ents really put the brakes on in the movie. This also could've been cured if we'd felt like Isengard (after the army left) was still a major threat. The feeling is, 'oh, they're storming Isengard? so what, all the orcs are at Helm's Deep!'

Just goes to show you how masterful the story telling of JRRT was, telling everything up to the march to Isengard in one chapter, then telling OF the storming as a flashback type thing. The suspense works so well. It doesn't lend itself to a fast paced action movie.

[Talimon]

After seeing the film again the light at the end of the tunnel has grown just a little bit ;). At this point, I'll just be happy if the EE offers one strong scene with Treebeard (PJ has said the scene in Treebeards "house" will be in the EE). This will at least give the ents scenes more weight, something they lack. It will also make thier anger a little more powerful.

I have to admit that the storming of Isengard is extremely powerful. It's really a mythic scene that shows the flood destroying the machines of industry. With just one or two good ent scenes I think the ents will "work out".

And I do have to note that it was wise of PJ to not use Treebeard for comic relief. This was no doubt a temptation, but it would have killed the film. Walking, talking trees are enough of a stretch, but to have them be jolly and funny? No thank you. PJ kept thier tale rather dark (for its part), and for that I thank him. I rather have the ents scenes be a little slow, rather then ludicrous or silly. This leaves me some hope regarding the EE.

[Arvedui]

Just a quick question:
How would we have reacted if there were no Ents at all in the movie?

[Talimon]

That depends on what the alternative was :). I'd probably be a little ****ed, and I commend PJ for having the guts to try it, but having seen it now myself I can say that personally I'd have preffered an alternative.

[aragil]

Hoom Hom. Like I said in my review (yet to be posted, but never fear), I liked the Ents. I didn't like the way that they decided to attack Isengard- I think they should have built more off the stuff in FotR (trees falling and what not) earlier, and then had them march off to war earlier. I really did not like the Moot ending in a decision to not go to war, but then all that being changed in an instant. Is PJ saying that Ents should be more hasty? Certainly not what Treebeard in the books thinks- he even brags that they are better than men because the stay after a task, and better than elves because they don't get bogged down in reminiscing. To me the snap decision to attack Isengard just didn't work quite right. I do think I prefer the real-time storming of Isengard to the flashback, but that's just me. Anyway, certainly don't cut them- that would be an extreme waste and then Merry and Pippin fall out of the story. I would tweak, but I wouldn't chop.

[Lindir]

The Ents could have been left out, but that is only after actually seening them. If they hadn't been there I would have been ****ed off. But as it turned out I don't think they furthered the story at all. And the portrayal was bad. They looked fine but acted stupid. There's a difference beween slow and stupid. And the reversed decition at Entmoot was totally unnecessary, since the ended up destroying Isengard after all. It was probably included to make Pippin look better.

[flame]

i like the ents, as a c.g.i marvel. but the ents where good, i like em oppps i hasty. lol.

[Odo Proudfoot]

Leaving out the Ents would have posed a physical risk to PJ. Someone might have killed him for that! Just imagine what this board would have looked like if there hadn't been Ents in the movie...

I agree with most people that the Ents themselves are well done, but that the 'wrong' Entmoot decision is unnecessary and clumsy. I also feel that the chemistry between Treebeard and the hobbits is a bit lacking. If the scene in Treebeards house is included in the EE it will help to give this aspect of the film more depth.

fG

[flame]

thats if theres a EE versoin of ttt.

[Treebeard86]

Hoom hom hm...hasty folk you are trying to cut the movie down even shorter...hasty indeed...without the Ents Isendard would have stood for alot longer...hasty, hasty...Ents were the best part of the Movie indeed...if you havn't seen the movie yet go to see the Ents...!

[BelDain]

Originally posted by Treebeard86
Ents were the best part of the Movie indeed...if you havn't seen the movie yet go to see the Ents...!

Nah, Miranda Otto was the best part of the movie. :D

[Talimon]

I do have to say this: if every trilogy needs to have a "Jar Jar", I am sure as hell happy that the worse this one has is the Ents. They certainly don't ruin the movie for me, not by a long shot. And if PJ manages to pull off one or two good ent scenes in the EE then maybe it will all work out.

As for the Ents deciding to not attack Isengard, I think that served a few points. One, it showed that the ents weren't, well, hasty :). Two, it gave Merry a chance to have a nice little speach ("You are a part of this world..."). Three, it helped develop Merry and Pippin in that one scene between them where they wonder what they can possibly do (this should contras well with Merry stabbing the Nazgul). And four, it let Treebeards reaction be much more dramatic. I get the impression that Treebeard didn't know about the cut down trees until he saw them. If that is the case, then the decision at the ent-moot makes much more sense. After all, it is not fitting of the Ents to get involved in others business. They are "on nobodies side". Once Treebeard actually sees the damage done then he takes the innitiative. I didn't think this scene was great either, but once they started attacking Isengard things became much more mythic, and they fulfilled the only role they really had.

[Odo Proudfoot]

You may be right, Talimon. I may just not like it because it went against my expectations. I will think about it more once I have seen the movie again.

I do hope we get more expansion of the relation between Merry, Pippin and Treebeard in the EE DVD. I think the scene in Treebeards house might be a nice rest point in the tale to allow us to catch our breath.

fG

[Lhunithiliel]

You luckies!
Well, who knows when the film will come to my country? But I'll wait patiently.

To tell you the truth, the ONLY scene I have been and still am impatient to see from the the screened version of TTT is the destruction of Isengard by the Huorns....

And what am I reading here?!!!!?????!!!!!

No Huorns, some 2-minutes episode....??????

Well, from the pre-reviews I knew that Helms Deep would be in the center of the events.... But I think that though given as a flashback, the destruction of Isengard is one of the key points...in the book....
'SO SORRY to hear it was not well developed in the movie!

[Odo Proudfoot]

Sorry, double post.

[Odo Proudfoot]

Originally posted by flame
thats if theres a EE versoin of ttt.

Quote from the official movie website:

In the book, the Battle of Helm's Deep is a very violent affair. How does that translate onto the screen?

We've got a PG-13 battle scene, but it's a fairly gritty battle. It's about as far as we could possibly push it within that rating. We filmed some heads and limbs being chopped off which we've taken out. We'll probably put them back in the DVD, which will have an R rating.



www.lordoftherings.net (http://www.lordoftherings.net)

Sounds like we will get one :)

fG

[JOHOVISHTA]

You just cant cut the Ents from the film. Lets face it Ents are just too cool to cut..and I love them too much --theyre so Entish.

I must admit though I was a little hmmmm about how Fangorn suddenly decided t attack Isengard - very UnEntish - I dont think PJ was trying to make a deep comment about Ents here. I think he just tried to make the screenplay work but in doing so got the Entish character wrong
- Johovishta

[eilers]

I thought the Ents were excellent in the movie and unlike Tom Bombadil in FOTR i don't think TTT could have done without them. As members of the Fellowship Merry and Pippin's role needs to be explained and as most of their role is involved with the Ents it was necessary for PJ to include them. This book sees how they progress from happy-go-lucky little hobbits to two of the bravest hobbits in the shire and therefore scenes like Merry's speech and Pippin's scheme to bring the Ents to Isengard was needed.
My only quibble is that Merry and Pippin were not featured enough! I thought that PJ's presentation of the Ents was outstanding and their individual features were so well captured, Treebeard's beard almost looking like a mound of moss on the tree trunk rather than an actual beard, brilliant!
As the film moved at such a quick pace it captured perfectly the pedestrian speed which the ents always operate at, though i must admit they were sometimes a little too "hasty" for my liking especially the Entmoot.
I thought the storming of Isengard was excellent, loved that bit where one of the Ents who's up in flames sticks his head into the water to put the flames out :D, tickled me no end.
However, the sudden decision to storm Isengard, could do better there.
Agree with others, hope the EE shows Merry and Pippin in Treebeards house, do you think we'll see them grow from the Ent drink? (Name escapes me)

[sweetpea]

I agree that the Ents attack on Isengard should have been done differently. Treebeard as a tree herder knew that Saurman was destroying his friends (or at least "felt" something wrong there). It would have been better to show Treebeard trying to convince the other tree herders to take vengence on Isengard rather than saying 'No, we won't go to war and then Treebeard give just one loud hooommm and then they attack!! Talk about HASTY!!!!! :rolleyes:

I will see it again Saturday, so I can concentrate on some things I must have missed after reading some comments. Also our showing had 2 scenes in which the sound skipped for a couple of minutes. The audience was hollering when it happened the second time.