Grand Council members of Heren Istarion

[Anamatar IV]

Hallo!:)

This is the thread for the GC members to discuss things about Heren Istarion that need discussing.

First, I think we all realize that recently there have been a number of people who have left Heren Istarion and many of us attribute it to the lack of things to do in Heren Istarion. So we need to get this new training system voted on QUICK! If the answer is nay we stick with our current and if yea we use it. We need to keep the members of HI still interested and thus we need to start training soon.

Nenya, post your idea *in detail;)* for everyone to see and discuss...I will set up the poll on SUNDAY 1/12/03

[Nenya Evenstar]

Here it is:

RP training system:
Why isn't the system we have now efficient?

Well, I feel that one of the most important aspects of good role-playing is correct spelling, grammar, punctuation, and creativity. With our system as it is right now, the students do not get any of the individual attention they need in order to expand in these areas. It is impossible for them to get this attention. We are training students to RP separately from their character training. It is not possible to get someone spelling and writing correctly when they are simply required to post one post and have it critiqued. No one will get anything out of it. Instead, we need to combine the RP training with the character training so that the student will get each and every post corrected and critiqued.

What do I mean by RP training?

When I say that the RP training and the character training should be combined I am not saying that things such as Profile training, OOC training, FIC training, and regular RP rules should be taught during character training. I am merely saying that the main part of an RP post (the spelling, the creativity, the paying attention to previous posts, etc.) should be taught during character training. All of the students would get so much more out of it.

What are our goals as a guild?

I have always envisioned our goals as a guild to be to produce good Rpers. Our system right now will not do that. The students are merely fed a billion things all of which they cannot digest. It is like trying to teach a student how to write by simply critiquing only one of their posts.

Yes, in many cases we are going to have to teach people how to write. I think it will give our guild a bad name if we send people out into the RP world spelling and committing grammatical errors every two seconds. We will look terrible! We must concentrate on making good RP posts and in producing the same fruit in those we train.

How would the system work?

The system would work like this: Say I am the teacher of the Paladins. I will post a demonstration of a simple sword move and tell my student how to execute it and what to be expecting back from my opponent (all in the form of a good RP post). The student will then be expected to reply with his character who will attempt to do the move. The student will also need to use correct grammar, spelling, punctuation, creativity, imagination, etc. so that his/her post is good in itself. Then I will post again critiquing that post, giving the student ideas on what he could have used and on what he could have done better. What do I mean by creativity? I mean not overusing powers and being a "superman." We should encourage the students to not necessarily "get it" the first time. So, for example, I would teach someone how to forge a knife at the blacksmith's. When the student tries to make the same knife for the first time, I would encourage him to have himself make mistakes - perhaps he could hammer on his metal before it is quite cool? Or perhaps he could hammer his finger? Of course, we would encourage variety. So, the student would be encouraged to struggle with certain things, to be very good at certain things, and to be so-so at certain things. That is what I mean by creativity. It is all a part of realism, and very vital in good RPing. By nurturing this in our students from the very beginning we can stop them from being unrealistic in RP's.

Why is this system better?

With the way we have things set up at the moment no one will get anything spelling-wise, grammar-wise, creativity-wise, etc. The are simply be thrown a bunch of advice in the head and are expected to use it. However, this way each and every post that the student makes will be analyzed, critiqued, and corrected so that the students can get the most out of this course that they possibly can.


The University System:
Why is our system we have right now insufficient?

In the system we have right now, everyone goes through the exact same training and is trained by only one trainer. The character which they are training for is preprogrammed. Every single Paladin has the same characteristics, the same strengths, and the same weaknesses. Is this realistic? No! Every single monk, blacksmith, wizard, paladin, archer, etc. that we produce should not have the exact same characteristics as their fellows! I also believe it is unfair for the students to study under only one trainer. The University System and my RP Training System work together. If the student is allowed to study under more than one trainer then he will get much more out of the course as a whole, as he will get different views, different ideas, etc. which he can sort through for himself to develop his character as he wishes.

What is the University System?

The University System, as I have envisioned it, would be like this: Say I am a student wishing to become a Wizard. I will enter the guild and see a number of different things which I can take. I will be able to learn how to use my magical skills proficiently and wisely from one teacher (the Wizard director), I will be able to learn how to sword fight from another teacher, learn to manipulate and counsel from yet another; and, if I wish, learn anything else that I might so desire. Perhaps I would like to learn how to shoot arrows? Very well! I will take a class in archery and learn. Not only would every person be able to make their own characters exactly how they would like, but they would be getting enriched from each and every one of the trainers in spelling, grammar, and regular writing skills. They would be able to pick and choose what to keep and what to throw away and be able to become their own individuals.

Now, we could have group classes for those who simply wish to learn sword-fighting. We could also have one-on-one classes. We would be able to tweak this a lot in the next few months until we find something that is suitable. Basically, I see something very much like a university or a college. There would be a Magic department, a sword-fighting department, a counseling department, a music department, etc.

What about the problem of not having enough teachers?

To this I say that only a couple of our six teachers right now are active. I, for one, have absolutely nothing to do and could easily take on more responsibilities. We have to start somewhere. Once we are done with our first batch of students we could easily higher some of them to take on training responsibilities. If we train our students as I suggested above, all of them should be able to take on the responsibilities of training other Rpers, and if they're not ready, I would say that we have not done our job. I am not looking at something small here. I am looking towards the future of this guild. I believe that, if we followed this system, we could become extremely efficient and grow to sufficient numbers. Imagine where we could go if we followed a University system? Everyone would have their job, and eventually things would become a lot less complicated then they are now in our current system. Imagine what we could do when people flock to us from all corners of the forum because of the wonderful Rpers we put out? And, what is essential, is that these Rpers must not be all the same. They must be different and must be able to pick and choose what they want their character to take and learn.

The University System and the RP Training System work hand-in-hand:

By using the US each student will be able to have background from all trainers and not just one. They will be able to grow in their writing abilities and become great Rpers. The way it is now, a student is stuck with only one trainer. They will become little puppets of their trainer and of the character that they are supposed to be. We must think bigger!

Azog has some more to add. I will PM him and ask him to post it.

[Azog]

Heren Istarion: Why the University Training is more efficient and better for the new RPer.

I personally believe in the university idea. It would allow for every learner to shape their character to their predilection. If all of the new RP trainees are instantaneously placed into a set category, character development will become very difficult. Without character development, all trainees of Heren Istarion will become almost identical, not even varying by class name. My brothers and sisters of Heren Istarion, do we want to become a group of clones?

If the forces trained by Heren Istarion are to be the same, then why join? RP training is supposed to allow for a person, man or woman, to become their character, and become a better RPer with their character. No one truly wants to be placed in a class where they are given a name, given skill that all else of that order have, and finally, trained not according to their want, but to the want of the trainers.

As a moderately experienced RPer, I am asking that you against this new proposition... to reflect upon it once again before pushing it away from your minds.

Now, let me state some of the uses for this new University program.

The University would be designed to improve character development and allow for greater character modification.

The classes would be scenario based, so that the trainers would be training the basics of a class AND teaching the trainees how to RP.

The program would allow for trainers to be more flexible, and each trainer would be more 1-on-1 with the student.

The students would actually be taught spelling, grammar, etc. while being taught the characteristic.

Example time: Alkorr walked into the NON-WEAPON COMBAT SPARRING ROOM where three young students sat in waiting. He addressed them, “Hello my students. Today you will be trained in fist fighting.

(Reply by some trainee-) aragorn stood and talked, “hey alkorr, when do we start.”

(what a trainer would do-) [HALT] correct all spelling and grammar errors before we proceed.

(After the student corrected everything, the training would continue. This way, the trainees would learn how to properly spell and use English correctly. At the end of each classes training period, the students would be tested on what they learned)
Non-Lessons Training Places-

[Nenya Evenstar]

Alright, considering that this may pass, we need to discuss who will teach what. There will be many different branches and classes to be taught... we need to decide exactly what those classes are and who is going to teach them before Monday. In other words we do not have much time.

So, what classes should there be?

Who should teach what?

[Anamatar IV]

Ah well that is a 3 step job:

making a list of all the classes to take

make a list of all the classes that each CHARACTER can take (i.e. we can let a diplomat take sword fighting but we cant let them take axe throwing;))

Decide whom will teach what


So a list of classes:

sword fighting (foot)--Galdor
sword fighting (horse)--Galdor
*Archery (foot)--ILLOTRTM
Archery (horse)
Spear fighting (foot)
Spear fighting (horse)
*Concussion weapons (axe, mace...)--Azog
*Axe throwing--Azog
*Hand to hand combat--Azog
*Stealth fighting--Azog
*Sword dancing--Nenya
*Knife play--Galdor
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*Healing--Nenya
*Diplomacy--Nenya
*Blacksmithing--ILLOTRTM
*Diplomacy--Nenya
*Word skills--Anamatar
*Wood working--Anamatar
*Wisdom--Anamatar
*Music--ILLOTRTM
*History of Arda--Galdor
Races of Arda
*Geography of Arda--Nenya
*People of Arda--Anamatar

this is just a starting list-if there is anything you think should or shouldnt be here do tell.:)

[Nenya Evenstar]

make a list of all the classes that each CHARACTER can take (i.e. we can let a diplomat take sword fighting but we cant let them take axe throwing
Something I will fight to my death if need be. :p Seriously though, what is this?

Problem fixed. There will be no classes that a certain character can't take. Instead, each character will have certain required classes to take (to insure that the student is actually taking good classes) as well as any number of elective classes. This way the student can shape his/her character however he/she wants.

[Nenya Evenstar]

I was just thinking a moment ago about something. It seems to me that in the entire history of this guild we, the Grand Council, have never really listened to what Anamatar wants for Heren Istarion. I know that I haven't exactly been the best listener when it comes to that. :( So, Anamatar, what have you envisioned for this guild? After all, it is your guild, and I do want what you want for it and not what I or anyone else wants.

[Anamatar IV]

Ah, no worries, Nenya.:) What I had envisioned for the guild never got off the ground and those that did didn't keep the members active. But that is exactly what the GC is for-to steer the guild in the right direction when I dont have time to.;)

[Nenya Evenstar]

Ok, as long as you get some say in matters and don't get driven by us "stuborn mules." ;)

[Anamatar IV]

Okay we need to do these 2 things fast:

finish up thinking of classes and decide who teaches what. Everyone will have 2 or 3 classes to teach. I will choose word skills, wood working, and wisdom.

[Nenya Evenstar]

I would like to teach Sword Dancing, Diplomacy, and Healing. :)

The only class I can think of to add would be music. Music was such an essential part of Tolkien's world and I think it odd to not have a class in that area. You could basically train people to write songs. I'd be willing to teach the class as I have a moderate musical background. What do you think?

[Nenya Evenstar]

I got another idea last night that I think would add a LOT to the guild. What if we added classes on the History of Arda, the Races in Arda, and the Geography of Arda? I think it would expand the RP repertoire of the students drastically.

[Anamatar IV]

I think those arda things are good! I think I will claim people of Arda if you dont mind;)

How about we make it REQUIRED that each person takes one of the Arda classes but it is not designated which ones? Also, GC members CLAIM the classes or we will assign them.

[Nenya Evenstar]

Glad you like them! I think all of those classes should be designated. They are all pretty important.

[Anamatar IV]

all right fine all are required but let me say this:

I am not ending up teaching 7 classes.;):p

[Nenya Evenstar]

We wouldn't have that problem if the rest of the GC members would post. :( It seems that you and I are the only ones making decisions here.

[Anamatar IV]

Well I think Galdor can be excused as he just returned. But as for Azog, ILLOTRTM, Aerin, and Elessar: this is your guild too. There are reasons why I chose you guys to be on the Grand Council and not others. I think that this Grand Council is as good as it could get member wise--but the guild would be so much farther ahead if we had more activity. Come on, guys! I didn't like having to post of Elu being kicked for inactivity and I'd hate to do it again.

The Guild is structured like this:

there are the members. There are the Grand Council members. The members can't do anything until the Grand Council members start training. When the Grand Council members get inactive members get bored. I find it no coincidence that when people say they only have time for one guild they choose to leave Heren Istarion. It can be a really great guild if we start getting more activity from you guys. Me and Nenya can't run the gyuld ourselves.

[ILLOTRTM]

I'm here... I've been listening... I'm afraid I'm just rather confuzeled. :confused: hmm.... I do like the idea of teaching history of those places. I'm interested in music, blacksmithing, and archery on foot. Forgive me if I've neglected to post on any vital things here..... I'm still trying to figure out what we're discussing, exactly. :D please ask me if there's anything welse I need to say!

[Azog]

I will teach Cannabalism, Torture and lastly, Proper Etiquette. ;)

[Nenya Evenstar]

Anamatar, just a note... I like all the suggestions of mine that you added except for the Obeying the Commanders one. Now that I see it up I realize it could easily be taught in all the other classes. :D Perhaps we should take it out?

[Anamatar IV]

those have all been added and I will remove the obeying yada yada:rolleyes:

[Galdor]

I would sugest cutting back on all the history classes you have that are required. Maybe make one of them requered and then have the rest opinional, exsept for like Scholars who need to know all of that.

[Aerin]

Please excuse my absence; I have not been feeling well. Hopefully, within the next few days, I will have the time to catch up on the Council and post.

[Nenya Evenstar]

Aerin, I really hope you get feeling better. Don't worry too much about things... just get feeling better first. :)

Galdor, I think that all those classes should be required as they are all very necessary aspects of RPing Tolkien-like. If we have students who have not read the Sil. they should be required to. Perhaps that will be one of the requirments of the history class? But at the very least they need an outline so that they can follow the flow of serious RP's. The Races of Middle-earth are also very significant. I see a class which describes each race in detail and outlines where they came from as well as outlines their characteristics. The geography is also essential because in the Serious RP's it is definitely helpful to know your geography well.

Also, if any of our students are ever going to RP in the Forum Wars and such they will need a VERY good grasp of all three subjects. Perhaps if we need to shorten this we can condense The Race of ME in with the History of ME as the two kind of go hand in hand. Nevertheless, I feel all three subjects need taught.

[Azog]

A student only needs to know geography for the wars. Other things may be helpful, but geo. is key.

I need to know it, and so does everyone who ever wants to RP in a war.

[Anamatar IV]

I *really* don't want to change anything now after people have gotten used to seeing those 3 as required;)

*sigh* I think I may need to go through another membership pruning soon.:(

[Nenya Evenstar]

Isn't training starting today? I don't know how to begin... Anamatar, if we get this on the road you may not have to prune. Send out PM's first, if you must. But, you probably already did that. :p

[Anamatar IV]

actually, only 3 people havent signed up and 2 of which havent posted in HI in the longest time and the other has leave of absence.

You know, I would love to start today but not all the classes are claimed.:(

I have:

Word Skills
People of Arda
Wood Working
Wisdom


Btw-I am updating the list of classes-the ones with stars next to them cant be claimed for they are already claimed.;)

I think by tomorrow we will start ASSIGNING classes to teach instead of letting us choose...

[¤-Elessar-¤]

meh

Alright, tell me what is left. There had better be something good, and hopefully something that keeps me away from too many newbies.... grrr... I have an extreme lack of patience at the moment

[Anamatar IV]

the list on the last page has been updated and the ones WITHOUT STARS are left to claim.:)

[Nenya Evenstar]

I am also teaching Geography of Arda. Anamatar has not updated the list yet to accomodate that. :)

[¤-Elessar-¤]

And I have to teach one, yes? Meh. I guess I'll go with 'history of Arda' since I'm working on that fourth age history-thing anyway. Meh... do I have to teach a class or something?

[Anamatar IV]

That is a class;)

and it MIGHT help if you chose 2 more classes to teach:D

[Azog]

Concussion weapons (axe, mace...)
Axe throwing
Hand to hand combat
Stealth fighting


I might do Races of Arda depending on how simple it is.;)

[Nenya Evenstar]

Elessar, I don't think you are required to teach any classes if you don't want to. However, if you are feeling up to it, your help would be more than welcome!

Azog, I think Anamatar is teaching Races of Arda. Look at the list on page one and see what classes have a star beside them: those are the classes that are taken. However Anamatar might have forgotten to update the list.... ;)

[Anamatar IV]

no...I was doing People of Arda;)

[¤-Elessar-¤]

Originally posted by Anamatar IV

sword fighting (foot)
sword fighting (horse)
Archery (horse)
Spear fighting (foot)
Spear fighting (horse)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Diplomacy
Races of Arda


so this is what we have left... I would really love to help, but my lack of time combines with my complete inadequicy in all of those fields. Except maybe Races, but I think that's being disputed already. Firstly, Elessar is by no means an expert warrior. He fights with heart, and that's all. He has never been trained, and never plans to be. So him giving the knowledge of how he fights would be... not only impossible, but completely confusing to those who were listening. If it comes down to the wire, I might could do horseback archery, which would, in it's essence, be the same as field archery.

And, under the strange line, we have the disputed races and diplomacy. Anyone who's been around long enough to remember the last time I had my hands in lots of government affairs knows that I am no diplomat. I'm hot tempered, paranoid, and arrogant. I used to have a big tendancy to tick people off....

[Anamatar IV]

Diplomacy, I am sorry, has been taken already.

Very well, if you feel you should not train anyone. You and Aerin still hold the job of looking out for and preparing wizards, right?:D

[Nenya Evenstar]

Oh, I see why I was confused. I never asked that People of Arda be added. I only asked for Races of Arda, History of Arda, and Geography of Arda to be taught. I figured that people would be taught in the history as the history is in a way the people. But, I think it's too late to change that now. Or did you add that class Anamatar?
I'm hot tempered, paranoid, and arrogant. I used to have a big tendancy to tick people off.... ;) You do have skills, Elessar. I have seen you use them.

[Nenya Evenstar]

I have a proposition. I feel that we need to develop a system for allowing those who come to us who are very gifted in writing and Role-playing to pass out of their classes and not have to go through training before taking up leadership positions. We already have seen some cases of this and need to develop a system. Perhaps a period where the aforsaid person is watched by the trainers in serious RP's? And if his skills are good enough he can pass without having to go through training?

[Anamatar IV]

Yes, Galdor has suggested a test for this...an RP placement test. I agree to it as long as he takes it upon himself to both come up with the questions and give the tests out;)

[Galdor]

This is how I will do it if the Council aproves.

I will make up a few RP senarios, like a battle scene, maybe a dialoge scene etc. The person going through traing will have to controll most or all of the characters. The training will probely run for about a week, give or take a few days, and then the GC will go over all the persons post and decide if they need to go through training.

So what'd you think?

[Nenya Evenstar]

I think it's a great idea. :)

The first candidate I think we should talk to about taking this is Dain Ironfoot I. :)

[ILLOTRTM]

The first candidate I think we should talk to about taking this is Dain Ironfoot I.
Ditto!

I think this is an excellent idea. This way we know who really NEEDS the training, so the people who understand it don't have to go through all of this.

[Anamatar IV]

Well, hehe. Me and Azog kind of went behind the scenes and gave Dain tests and scenarios. I gave him the tests on rp knowledge AND FIC stuff...Azog gave him the scenarios. We both think he passed with flying colors, thus he has already been admitted into the War rps.

But I have a problem with them skipping training all together. It makes a replica of say an average Mountain King if Dain doesnt go through training to expand on that character.

So instead of skipping training how about admittance into the wars?

[Nenya Evenstar]

Hmmm... you have a point about Dain not really ever getting the training needed for his class. However, being able to post in the Wars is NOT a good idea, IMO. The Wars should not be overcrowed (at least in their present format) with posters. As it is now, admittance into the Wars is prohibited to leaders. I don't think it's a good idea to let any old Joe into them in their present state.

Perhaps a better idea would be simply to say that the proposed person could be allowed to have teaching positions etc. but still have to go through his/her training. They could be Apprentice Teachers.

[Anamatar IV]

yes yes good idea...but it wouldn't be any old joe joining the wars...it would be someone whom we would all agree is ready for the supreme of role plays.

[¤-Elessar-¤]

As for admitance into the wars, really it should be up to the supreme commanders of each side. On the side that HI is on, Ciryaher is the boss. If you want to gradually enter members, it'd be best to have his approval. He's got a hotter temper than me, if pushed the right way.... and bad role playing is the best way to push him.

[Galdor]

That is why the whole GC will have to aprove someone before they can enter the War rps. We on the GC are all good rpers and will not let someone finish training until we deem them able to perform well in an rp.

[Nenya Evenstar]

Hmmm... I'm still having problems with this whole thing. Personally, I don't think Elbe should go through training if she joins. It is an insult to good RPers to have to go through training, IMO. Dain is the same. I still think we, as a council, should just make a decision to allow people to skip training if they don't need it. If they are good enough RPers they should have a straight enough head on their shoulders to be able to make a good and convincing character. After all, we are here to train people to role-play, not to be characters.

[Nenya Evenstar]

Ok, one more thing! Trainers! You MUST start training! Anamatar, we need an updated member list so that we trainers who are training can know who is missing from our classes. In other words, things in this guild must speed up drastically. We need to stop sitting around and discussing. We need to start doing. No questions about it. We have been idle too long! This guild needs to get going and the only way for that to happen is if we act. And that means ALL of us.

[Anamatar IV]

bah humbug! Galdor you get all the classes that have not been claimed (sword and spear I think).

START YOUR THREADS AS SOON YOU CAN. I am updating the member list NOW.

[Anamatar IV]

Never mind that last post, Galdor. sorry:(

Galdor is taking sword fighting (both of them should be done in one class) and history of arda.

ILL could you please take archery on horse back too?

So if someone could take spear fighting (horse and foot) we would be all set.

Also, if someone could choose races of Arda we would be all set.;)

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

Hey I know you guys need some help to teach some courses, so I would like to help teach spear fighting both ways if you would like.

Since "Dain Ironfoot" is being trained at the moment, and is not a teacher, I could use another character to teach the class. His name is Falim Stealthspear, and I would use him to teach the class if you wanted me to teach it.

[Galdor]

The GC is going to have to think about your offer for a little while before we come to a disision. And if we do decide to let you train I doubt you would be alowed to make a second character. As I believe most of the GC is agianst having more then one HI character, and it might become a rule in the future.

[Anamatar IV]

This new rule is new to me, Galdor. Is there a reason why there should not be more than one character per person? It is a mark of experienced role playing to be able to rp efficiently, effectively and differently with different characters.

I myslef have two characters in Heren Istarion.

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

Well Galdor, wherever did you get the impression Falim was to be a HI character? Hmmm... I dont see anywhere on my post where it says that. In fact, Falim is NOT in the HI, and will be just sticking his head in to teach and then leave.

But Im sure there is ALWAYS something wrong with just trying to help around here :rolleyes:

[Nenya Evenstar]

No, Dain, only when it's you we're talking about. :rolleyes:

Hmmm... I have to agree with Anamatar on this one. Sorry Galdor. I don't see anything wrong with having more than one character as long as you are able to keep them separated in your mind. Galdor, can you let us know why you feel this way?

[ILLOTRTM]

Sure, I'll take archery on horseback as well. As far as the Dain two characters thing goes, I don't see a problem as long as one isn't created by it :)

[Galdor]

I never said it was a rule, I only it might become a rule. But I have talked about this many times in the past.

And Nenya, you just told me you agreed with me on that a few hours ago!

Oh well, if the GC votes agianst that, then oviously it will not become a rule.

[Nenya Evenstar]

I know, Galdor. That's why I said I was sorry. I changed my mind after thinking it over. :)

Speaking of your ideas, are we going to do Galdor's newest? I think it's a great idea! I think we should correlate the History of Arda, the Geography of Arda, the Peoples of Arda, and the Races of Arda so that in all those classes things in the same regions are being taught. In other words, all classes would correlate together and teach about one area of ME at a time. The history class would be about the history of The Shire, the geography about the geography of The shire, the peoples about the people who lived in The Shire, etc. Essentially, the students would get to look at a part of the map as a whole and at one time. This way they wouldn't get thrown a bunch of stuff and be expected to sort through it.

The trainers could simply communicate and decided which region they would be teaching about next.

I think it's a GREAT idea! See? I do like some of your ideas, Galdor! ;)

Ahhh... yes, one more thing! We need to decide on this Dain issue quickly. If Dain has another character who he wants to train (which I think should be necessary unless he passes out of training), then he needs to know so that he can post for that character too. I don't think Falim should be able to become a teacher without going through training. It doesn't quite make sense. However, he can pass out of training just like Dain. In other words, Dain would simply need to have two characters in HI.

[Anamatar IV]

On Galdor's idea:

I think it is a very cool idea, but I do not know how doable it is. The history of the Shire will take much longer than the Geography of the Shire which will take much longer than people of the shire which will take longer than the races of the shire. By the time History is done the races and people and geography have done nothing for a week.

Also, we need to get training going soon and fast, and there isn't enough time to properly plan out all these things like the order of how things will go.

And one more, the people of arda, not all of them can be classified into "locations". Aragorn travelled all his life. There are many people like he who have travelled too much to be classified.

Like I said, it is a VERY good idea...but it just isn't plausible right now.:( Sorry, Galdor.
*****************

As for Dain-just let him teach:rolleyes:

[ILLOTRTM]

Ok.... perhaps I've missed something here, but we haven't officially passed Dain out of training yet, have we???? I know we thought about it, but I wasn't sure if we'd actually done it..... Hmmm......
Well, let me put it this way:

Galdor's idea: I like it, I do, but apparently it's not a possibility right now....... shame.......

Having two characters: I stick to what I said before, no problem until one is created.

And I'm still a bit confused about the Dain thing a bit, but as long as nothing all official has been decided that I've missed..... I'll figure it out.....

[Anamatar IV]

I for one want Dain to go through training...but I see no problem with him teaching a class.......especially when IT WOULD BE A CLASS HE WOULDN'T BE TAUGHT as a Mountain King.

He would take spear fighting. As long as he does some research on how to fight with a spear why can't he train? Or maybe you guys think he lacks something in rping:eek: shame on you if you think that!

[ILLOTRTM]

lol haha, well, I don't think there are any of us here who think that. I do agree fully with you, though. I would like Dain to go through training, and as long as Falim was just a character for teaching, and Dain does a bit of research on the subject he's teaching, I think Falim is ok. HOWEVER, if he was planning on KEEPING Falim, I would want him to go through training... but I don't beleive Dain's planning on keeping him.....

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

OK I understand where you guys are coming from. But I do plan on keeping Falim... just not in the HI, does that make sense? In other words, I would use him for the independent RP's like, Mists Unknown for example. Does that mean he still has to be trained through HI if he wouldnt be used in the HI RPs? :confused:

If so, then I will gladly train him, but I merely wanted to use Falim so I could be of SOME help to the guild because I like to HELP people. But if you guys had someone to teach the classes, then it would be better for someone certified to teach it. I only offered my help because I thought you couldnt get anyone to teach spear fighting. Make sense?

[Nenya Evenstar]

First of all about Galdor's idea: I'd like to go along with Cora's wonderful advice. There is not a problem until one is created. It should be our slogan. I'm afraid we have way too many problems! But anyway, in order to make this work all we'd have to do would be to start coordinating now. We all would probably start on the region of The Shire. Races, People, and History should all take relatively the same amount of time. There is no reason why they shouldn't. And, since I am the geography teacher, I can manage to make that pan out to take up just as much time as the other classes. No doubts about it!

I would like you all to remember that Elbereth will not want to go through training. And she shouldn't have to go through training. Dain is the same. I will say once more: this guild is for training RPers. If we train those who do not need trained, what in the heck are we doing? I do not think it's a good idea to have students who teach because then other students will think they are good enough to teach. It would cause major problems. All teachers should either have passed out of training or have passed through training. Anything else will cause problems.

I will say that I do not feel Dain needs trained. He is as good an RPer as most of us are. We need more teachers. Why don't we seize this opportunity?

[Anamatar IV]

to quote me from about 4 posts ago:

just let him teach

to paraquote me from earlier:

let him teach

;)

Just one thing about Dain. I think he is already going through character training...and if he wants to great! And there are several nit picky little things that Dain can learn.:p

okay we can do Galdor's idea but there can be no more debating about order--I think we should do it in order of history. Starting with Aman, the valar, eru, feanor's oath, and the sort. Then beleriand and the elves edain yada yada, Numenor, shire...we can figure out the rest laster on. Agreed?

oh and one more thing...ALL TRAINERS MUST START TRAINING!! I mean come ON! Don't hesitate...start the danged thread!;)

[Nenya Evenstar]

okay we can do Galdor's idea but there can be no more debating about order--I think we should do it in order of history. Starting with Aman, the valar, eru, feanor's oath, and the sort. Then beleriand and the elves edain yada yada, Numenor, shire...we can figure out the rest laster on. Agreed?
Nooo... I can't agree. We shouldn't do this because not all of our students have read The Sil. We cannot start with something the students know nothing about. We need to show how everything connects to LOTR. Ugh... I can't continue. I'll be back with more later.

[Anamatar IV]

*sigh* how did I know?:rolleyes:

Nenya, by 8:30 pm EST time tonight if we don't come to an agreement with Galdor in this then we simply can't do this idea. We can't spend another few days trying to form something that will just seem cool to the students. I am reminded of several times you say:

Trainers! You MUST start training!

Yes, several training THREADS have started but we are not yet training. This training is moving far too slowly. I remember last week I said training would start on THAT saturday...for which I had hoped. Then I said monday--2 threads went up. Now we are coming upon a second saturday and training isn't starting!
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now as for this debate that me and nenya and galdor will have...what does everyone else think:

EDIT: I was being hasty.:( forget the time above--but we do need to settle this QUICKLY

Should we start this where Tolkien started his works, in the beginning of the ages in Aman...or should we start where SOME people have started reading and with the Shire.

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

Suggestion:

Many teachers seem to be waiting for their students to arrive... well all TWO of the teachers anyway ;) I would say, just start the training regardless, those that come in late can read the past posts and catch up on their own time. Maybe the teachers can send a PM telling them what they need to do, and I know it probably sounds crappy, but hey, what do you think a REAL teacher does? :p

[Galdor]

Nenya, by 8:30 pm EST time tonight if we don't come to an agreement with Galdor in this then we simply can't do this idea. We can't spend another few days trying to form something that will just seem cool to the students. I am reminded of several times you say:

I don't see the big prob with my idea, I personally think it will make things much easyer for both the teacher and the students. There's really not much to corrdenate, Nenya choises a region to start teaching on, and everyone else follows along. All of us teaching the classes will have to do a fair amount of study ourselves on whatever topic we are currently doing. and if we are all studing the same thing we can all help each other out as well. I would say to just start doing it this way, and if it doesn't work out, then stop doing it, like you guys suddenly seem to fond of saying "There is not a problem until one is created." And I don't really see why this needs to be a GC issue, if two or more people wish to do their classes this way I don't see why anyone else would care.

[Azog]

Just a word from me to everyone else. I heard about Galdors idea with the teaching, and I think that it will get more taught. Galdor can explain more if you don't understand me, I presume.

[Nenya Evenstar]

Dain, the teaching is going slow because the teachers are still unsure about where they are going to start teaching. :)

Galdor, Azog: Anamatar doesn't have a problem with the training issue anymore. He has accepted your idea, Galdor. However he does have a problem with starting with The Shire. He thinks we should start with Aman. I disagree because a good deal of our students have not yet read The Sil. I feel that they would become confused if thrown all this new information in the very beginning. I think we should first teach things that the students are familiar with and then branch out with the other less familliar things so that we can show how each episode from The Sil. actually fits in with LOTR. Start with the familiar, I say, and teach the confusing once you've established a strong foundation. :)

EDIT: After an hour long conversation in which Mablung endeavored to convince me that starting from the beginning of The Sil. would be better, I have finally agreed. What Anamatar and Mablung failed to mention in the very beginning is that we are teaching a shortened course, not a long drawn-out course. If we were teaching every tiny detail then I would stick to my last opinion. However, since we are only going to sum up the War of the Ring, I can see completely how much more sense it would make if we start in the beginning with Aman. Otherwise, it makes no sense. All you need to do is be specific with me: when I have a hole in my theories it will most likely be a very small and obvious hole. This hole was the fact that we are not teaching a nice long course of history: we are teaching a quick and summed-up course. That would have been all I needed told. :( Let me know what you all think!

[Anamatar IV]

Well if we were going to have every little detail I know three books we could give to the students.:rolleyes:

Okay so it is on? We can start?

OTHER TRAINERS:

START TRAINING!!!!!:p

[Nenya Evenstar]

:rolleyes: I think it is on! I am willing to start anytime! :D

[Nenya Evenstar]

Elessar, you said that you would have been willing to teach some of the other classes had you known about them. Are you still willing? I know that you would be a valuable teacher to have, and I'm sure that some of the teachers would be willing to sacrifice classes so you could teach.

[Anamatar IV]

Hm yes Elessar I'll let you handle this question...

But I have a question for everyone: the Mountain Kings currently have the most classes, but they are also the most complex characters. Azog has them of having word skills, being skilled with an axe, being able to blacksmith and the such. So I ask you: when I was ordering which character required what classes did I give too much to the Mountai King's?

[Nenya Evenstar]

I hadn't noticed that. I think it's fine as it is. All those classes seem to be a necessary part of the Mountain Kings.

[Nenya Evenstar]

I have a new idea. Please review this and see what you think. :)

I think it would be wonderful if we established an actual time frame, or an actual counting of time within our guild itself. Imagine what we could do if we had our characters running with deadlines of real RP days, working in a real day, eating, sleeping, and essentially living. We could create an entirely realistic and believable world directly here within our guild.

- Every three (or four) real days of our world would constitute one Heren Istarion day. Every HI day a new segment of each class would start. It would be the teacher's job to make sure that this class per-three-day idea is installed. Every third day (real day), the teacher would post a new post with another segment of class. The teacher would need to post the arrival of his/her students. A departure from class would also be welcome. Questions from the students could be asked at any given time whether they pertain to a past RP day or the given RP day. This way a class could continue throughout a period of three days. Then, the next RP day, another segment of class would start.

- What I'm trying to come up with is an actual time frame. Every one day in HI would equal three (or four) of our days. This way teachers, for example, would not be involved in a chat over at the Teacher's Lounge for many days straight. Every three of our days would constitute a new HI day.

- Of course during the course of a "HI day" a person could post the happenings of the evening at the same time as he posts the happenings of the morning. All that needs to be given in such a case is the time which the action takes place. It is possible to create a time frame by the day, but not by the hour. Of course there could be a schedule for a day (i.e. so-and-so teaches a class at 11:00 a.m. and 3:00 p.m.), but the posts do not have to happen in chronological order. For example: I could post in the beginning of our 3 day period a class given by Nenya in the morning. At the same time, I could post Nenya going into the Teacher's Lounge at night, tired out from work. This would enable every person to live out their character's day to the fullest.

- I realize that there could be paradoxes. However, with cooperation and sense from everyone involved, this should be easy to avoid. The three days (or four, should we decide three is not enough) of real time for every one HI day should actually be slow enough to avoid any catastrophe. If need be, we can add more time to a HI day.

- I would suggest employing an official time keeper.

- So, in other words, HI is one big RP!

[Ciryaher]

Firstly, I was always allowed to put my comments into the White Council, so I will hope that the good graces of Mithrandir will carry into this Council.

I am interested in knowing *why* a separate timeline is needed for the Heren Istarion. Is it not suitable to just follow FIC?

[Anamatar IV]

Well I think it is only to keep track of days--so a student can't be talking of how the first month of school has been in the dorms when it has been 2 classes in the schools. Just to make the rps feel more real or what not.:)

[Anamatar IV]

I have an urgent matter of business:

We have a new member of Heren Istarion, Lord Caelin. Well he has been role playing for TWELVE YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!

just about since I have been alive he has been role playing! I have only seen him in one rp POST but it was a good post. And I put him on the spot for that post, too. I do not think he needs training but what do you guys think?

Personally I think it would be insulting to have him go through training after rping for 12 years!

[¤-Elessar-¤]

hmm.... I say bring him here, and let him speak his piece. Then if we see that he has, regardless of his years, the type of resume that will coencide with our ways, here at the forum. Than we should consider it.

Btw- what is the average time for a training? How long does it take to complete?

[¤-Elessar-¤]

And, on further previous posts.

Ciryaher, you will have a say here, as long as my word counts.
And, I do not wholy disagree with the Idea. However, it seems as though it would lengthen the process quite a bit. The training is really completely seperate from the other RP-ish dealings. Our FT timeline is really just to make sure that time passes at all, not to document individual days.

oh, and, I think that one characteristic of a good RPer is to know about when days should end or begin. We can't have people running around in RPs saying that the afternoon lasts forever, or that they rode in darkness from Gondor to Arnor. I'm not so sure that this system might distort the trainees perception of time.

And (quite once again)
I am still willing to teach, but I just couldn't bare to teach any combat courses. I just don't feel that I am cut right to teach them. Elessar (and indeed, I myself) have to real skill for blades or axes. He just fights, and is always strong enough and smart enough to find a way out of it, if not to win it.

If you can show me a class that I feel I am qualified to teach, I will teach it. But otherwise, I would feel like I was lying to my students, and myself, for that matter.

[Nenya Evenstar]

Cir: You will, of course, be welcomed here whenever. Would you be willing to tell us why you don't like the idea?

Anamatar: I'd do what Elessar suggested with Lord Caelin.

Elessar: Are you interested in training? :) EDIT: You beat me to it. I know exactly how you feel. Hopefully someday we can have qualified teachers in every position who feel confident with what they are teaching. However, at the moment we can't do that. Classes you feel qualified to teach... if I were you I'd just look at the list and let us know which ones you think you could teach. Then we could go from there and get you a class or two.

I don't know the exact time of training because no one has figured it out yet. However, if we had a day-by-day timeline, we could have actual dates for classes to start and end.

I was thinking that the new system would give the students a bigger perception of time, actually. As it is now, classes last for days and days with no break. Students have no perception as it is because there is no perception within the guild. The only way to get that perception, I feel, is to have a designated time for classes etc. I am also trying to create an actual world within Heren Istarion with living, moving, breathing people. We are beginning to have all the threads... now all we need is a time frame, a map, and other finishing touches to make this plausible. All in all it would be awesome, IMO.

[¤-Elessar-¤]

meh.

Ok, I'm not against the Idea, but I'm not exactly all for it, either. I don't know, it is rather unprecedented, actually. I mean even back in the times of the Dragon, we never really had set dates and times. I guess it would be good for the newer RPers, but I think that after a class progresses far enough, they should be released from their 'bonds' so to speak, so that they can have a stab at standing on their own two feet. You can't expect sheltered players to be any good.

[¤-Elessar-¤]

Why are mountain kings called mountain kings? Do they actually get to be kings when the graduate? Are they all dwarves? Sorry, just something that's been bugging me.

Alright. I've thought it over. I cannot take anyone else's classes, since I'm sure that they were looking foreward to them and planning for them in earnest. So, I will attempt to teach Horseback Archery. It's a completely inadequate course, and I figure I'll be lucky to have two students, but I will fill the slot nonetheless.

My course shall be one for people who aspire to be serious RPers. It will train them not only how to successfully manuver their keyboards to create a beautiful archery scene, but also how to gain the respect of their peers. At least in that way I can feel important.

[Galdor]

There was for some time a big arguement over the name mountain king. Some of us on the GC didn't like it for the very reasons you don't, but others liked it the way it was. After a while though the majority of people on the GC got sick of arguing over a new name and voted agianst those of us who wanted to change the name, and so the name is still MK. And yes, it bugs me to no end as well, maybe someday we'll be able to change it.

[Anamatar IV]

They don't get to be kings........though they almost WERE kings before we straightened that out....;)

I hope ALL trainers are teaching for serious rpers!!!


And expect a few more than 2 students--it is a required course for archers.;)

[Ecthelion]

Hey, isn't Mountain King one of the names for a guy in Warcraft III?

[Anamatar IV]

Well it wouldn't surprise me....Azog thought of it:p

Ecthelion, though we value all opinions here in this thread we would prefer it if you refrained from posting here. If you have a question or comment feel free to pm any one of us. If you feel what you have to say is direly important, feel free to post.:)

[Nenya Evenstar]

I know, Elessar, I know. I'm going to start calling you "meh." ;) Hmmm... I'm still missing how this new time frame could shelter players. If anything it gives more bonds and more realism than no time frame would. It adds a new level to RPing which has not been seen before. It also adds organization and makes the GC do things when they are supposed to. All in all, I do not see how it "shelters" but only how it improves.

Where are the other GC members? We need their opinions too. The main problem with this council is that only three members really ever post here. The rest come in rarely.

[ILLOTRTM]

Sorry, the reason I never post is because I never fully understand what's going on! :( I'm just easily confused. :o Well, from what I KNOW about this time frame thing.... well, I guess I don't really have a problem with it or anything, but I don't really see the point of it.... why do we need it at all?... see why I keep out of these until you really need me? :rolleyes:

[Nenya Evenstar]

Hahaha... Cora, at least you're reading it. ;)

Why do we need it? Because it's just a great idea to give an even bigger edge of realism into our guild. We have a problem right now with students forever being in the dorms, students forever taking walks, and students forever sitting in classes. With the new idea they would be forced to use their time more wisely and be forced to have their character be only one place at a time. That is what I'm heading for. Even we, the trainers, have this same problem. I'm looking at having each character have a schedule such that he/she can only be one place at a time. We would create a class schedule so that not every class would happen everyday. That way the students would be able to concentrate on certain classes instead of having to concentrate on ALL their classes.

- The system would add realism which is essential.

- The system would force the students to use their posts in wiser ways.

- The system would allow the students and us to concentrate on only certain things at any given time.

[ILLOTRTM]

Ok... I get it. Well, I think it may be a bit complicated, but do sort of like the idea! I s'pose I'm fine with it.... if you have an easy way to work it out.... yes, good idea! :)

There, my opinion... happy now? :p :D

[Nenya Evenstar]

More than happy! Don't worry, if people accept this idea I will make sure that all headaches of organization, if any, rest on me. :)

[¤-Elessar-¤]

well, as long as you volunteer for the headaches, I say let you have it. I don't have time for any more projects ;) .

Alright, so I guess I got the class? Do I make my own thread, or is it pre-made?

[Nenya Evenstar]

Good, Elessar. ;)

Yes, I think you have the classes, though I'm not sure. You make your own threads. If you still are unsure about whether you'd like to teach those classes, feel free to PM me with any classes you feel qualified to teach. Who knows, perhaps you feel more qualified than I do to teach some that I have?

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

Nenya, my dear, I see you have used my avatar, but it isnt flashing like it should... so... I have the atachment to the picture in this post for you to use. Carry on!

[ILLOTRTM]

Hrm, I thought I was also teaching Horseback Archery? Perhaps I'm wrong? Well, if Elessar wants to teach it, that's quite fine with me. Just... let me know.....

[¤-Elessar-¤]

if you would like it, you can have it. By all means, I am not quallified to teach it. I already have a 'class of sorts'...

[¤-Elessar-¤]

oh, I meant to ask... Would anyone mind if I asked a moderator to lock up all of the old WC threads? I'd just rather not see them defiled. And I dont' want them deleted, because they are still of use for reference and such....

What do you think?

[ILLOTRTM]

No no, I'm quite fine with you teaching it, I don't mind. :D I have lots of plans for foot archery as it is.... ;) Anyway, as for your last comment about the old WC threads, I think it's a good idea! What say all else?

[Anamatar IV]

why not! get 'em locked...............we don't need more people trying to join the White COuncil, do we?;)

[Nenya Evenstar]

I'd just rather not see them defiled. :confused: Defiled from whom? The GC members? Or HI members? I really hope that you do not think we would defile the WC's threads. :(

But anyway, getting the threads locked is a great idea to preserve the legacy of the WC. :)

[¤-Elessar-¤]

I was talking about the newbs who come in asking to join the white council, and all of that other stuff. I'd just rather not take the chance.

[Galdor]

Just have them sent to the Great Smials. That way no one will be able to post in them, and they will forever be a part of this forum's history.

[Anamatar IV]

Originally posted by Nenya Evenstar
:confused: Defiled from whom? The GC members? Or HI members? I really hope that you do not think we would defile the WC's threads. :(


Legolaschick and Legolas_Lover, just to inform you that if my sis joins this website, she will be the Legolas lover of Middle Earth. And LegolasChick you probally won't be able to join the council because you don't even know how to spell council!!! And you cant even spell Legolas in your quote on the bottom of your statments. How do you get those pictures on the bottom of your names?

Defiling as in that, right?

[Nenya Evenstar]

I have received a request from someone who wishes to take only one class in Heren Istarion (Geography of Arda). I am simply wondering what you all think of creating some program for those who wish to simply come and take a few courses here and their for their own benefit. I realize we cannot have people whose RPing skills are not quite up to par coming into the guild, taking only one class, and then leaving. It wouldn't be good for the guild's name.

However, we could have some sort of degree system where the students have to complete an entire course to be able to get their degree. Taking just one class would not constitute as a degree, nor would it constitute being trained in Heren Istarion.

Or, we could go the test route. Any candidate who is interested in only one class could be required to take a test to see if he/she has role-playing talent. If the student passes with flying colors then he/she could be allowed to take only the desired class or classes. However, if he fails, he would be required to choose a field and take all required classes. This idea seems to go along hand-in-hand with the rule for talented RPers who are able to test out of taking classes.

Let me know any ideas!

[ILLOTRTM]

Hmmmm..... I'm afraid I can't say I like this idea much at all. If we let some people take tests to see if they can just take a few classes, wouldn't everyone want to do that? Well, perhaps that's not really my point..... (Bare with me, I'm making as much sense as I can.).... Hmmmm..... I don't think anyone comming to our guild should be privilaged over anyone else, even if they weren't to get the same advantages..... I really hope some of your are getting this.....
To all of my rambling up, I don't like the idea of people being able to come in and just take one course because I think if they are going to get some of the education in RPing here, they should get all we have to offer. My reasoning isn't very clear yet, but perhaps I'll be able to clear it up later....
This also goes along with the fact that I don't like the idea of people being able to test out of taking classes.
(I really should keep quiet, don't you think? there'd be much less need for asprin! :D )

[¤-Elessar-¤]

I think that they should be allowed to come in and take basic courses like the one meantioned. However, I do not think that they should be able to take the more advanced courses, such as the combat courses or the higher-level academia (such as wisdom and diplomacy). Those wishing for combat only should join the solder guild (if it still exists :confused: ) And, if they wish to take one of the others, they should simply join the guild.

That part would be more like a public school, instead of a guild...

yeah, I'd bet that didn't make much sense...

[Nenya Evenstar]

Hmmm...ok, I think that idea goes down the drain...for a time anyway.

Now, we need to get this new time idea of mine on the road. You must speak up people. :)

[Galdor]

Hey, I have something for you guys to think about. Roguelion has just joined the HI, he is a very good RPer, and so we need to really decide on what kind of test we will give him so he can skip training, Or even if we should just pass a rule that for people who have been RPing on TTF we only need to look at the post they have already done to decide if they can skip training. And after he gets out of training I would highly reconmend that he be made a teacher, and possibly be placed in the GC.

Nenya, I'll go read your post agian right now and start thinking about it.

EDIT: Your idea looks great, I like it. We will have to have it written out very clearly so that no one gets confused. And yes, a ofishal time keeper would be most definatly needed.

[Anamatar IV]

hehe. Galdor, me and Nenya had a long convo about that yesterday. Roguelion, I agree, is an excellent and experienced rper. I would not mind her (or him?) skipping training but it seems that he (or she?) is expecting to be trained (via pm to me)

[Galdor]

I told him that he would be able to skip training, but that he would have to take some test to do so. So my question is, what exactly will the test be that he'll have to take? Or like I said in my last post, will we be able to let him skip training by just going oversome of his rp post? And did you and Nenya decide that it would be a good idea to make him a trainer, or to also have him placed on the GC?

And remember, even though it may seem that we are all for this, a full vote must be taken before he is made a trainer, or a GC member.

[¤-Elessar-¤]

We need to have an RP testing arena, where each of the Grand Council members can throw something at all of these 'exceptions'. Something that tests their skill in actuall RPing.

We would need to have a basic reubric for the fighting, to make sure that he is up to standards. Each catagory in the reubric will be voted on by each member of the GC, with a given score of 1-10. And the participant must make an 'A' to bypass the training. But some of the catagories will be weighted more than the others... for example...

Let's say that character A is attempting to bypass all classes. We put him to the test, giving him simulated RP situations. The areas we judge him are would be something like:

Grammer- 16/20 points
Creativity- 39/40 points
'realistic' posts- 35/40 points
----------------------------------------
over-all talent: 90/ 100 points

and thus, he passes. More catagories can be added, and the total points can go way higher than 100 (eh, it was an easy example)... so, does anyone see where I'm going with this, or agree or disagree?

[Galdor]

That is the system that some of us presented when quite awhile ago, and I like it. I'm just don't remember if we actualy agreed that that is how we would let people out of training.

[Anamatar IV]

But we can't do this openly and to all people, that is what I have been saying. I wish more people would use the rp simulator. That is how Azog and I found Dain.

So what I mean is: we can't rank people with tests again. If trainers find someone who they think is a good rper and does not need training then let them take these tests.

[Nenya Evenstar]

I think that was already understood, Anamatar. ;) I like the idea, Elessar. Sounds great! So, if a trainer sees a person who they think should bypass training they can allow the student to be tested.

I will start working on the timeline thing ASAP.

[¤-Elessar-¤]

is it really? Hmm... must have been before I started being 'active'

But there is an important part, it can't be as open as the RP simulator. It would have to be in this forum, and only the testee and the WC members can post there. Agreed?

[Anamatar IV]

Hey, you guys, tell me what you think of Rasec's rping. I think he is a very good role player and has potential to be better. But do you think he should continue through training?

[Galdor]

Hmm, he most definately has improved since he first came to TTF, and is a pretty good rper. But he has already started training, so for now I'd say just have him finish going through it. I am not agianst leting him out of training though.

[Nenya Evenstar]

Hmmm... I hate to be the bad guy here but I really think Rasec should still go through training. We should allow people to get out of training ONLY if they are the best. We must keep that standard and people need to realize that we will not lower it. So, even though Rasec does show much talent and improvement, I do not think he should be let out of training.

[ILLOTRTM]

I think Nenya is right. Rasec is good, but I think he could still use some training before he qualifies for release. I think his skills need some fine-tuning.

[¤-Elessar-¤]

I, for one, think that we need to quit letting people get by without training. The only ones that should be allowed through are rare exceptions. Extremely rare.

[ILLOTRTM]

I agree strongly! I don't think there really should be any acceptions... but that's not what the majority of the council says. SO I think when they are admitted, they should be incredibley good at RPing.

[Anamatar IV]

The vote's been taken and Rasec will continue through training.:)

[Nenya Evenstar]

Does anyone know how long one semester will be? I have received a complaint from someone who has to wait and join at a later semester because he'd rather not have to wait for too long.

Or perhaps we could just get on it? That means you Galdor.... ;) History class...hint, hint. I can't get on with my class until you do. :D

I supposed I could start my other classes. :rolleyes: But, my question is, since things are so slow right now, is there any way to incorporate the students who have to wait into training? They haven't missed much...if not we need to at least encourage them to post in the Dorms and other threads that have nothing to do with classes.

[Anamatar IV]

well if someone posts in the class don't tell them not to. Just say (before the post that is) that you would need to read the entire thread to be caught up on everything. But for those classes not far along the war, just let them it

[Anamatar IV]

Hey, did we ever reach a decision about Lord Ceilin? Things move too fast in this thread;)

EDIT: Things really do move too fast here!

I am pming him now to give him instructions. He will post here with his best example of role playing (he has role played on another website. Once he gave me a reason why he has been inactive role playing on this forum but I deleted the pm when I was clearing my inbox along the way). I am asking for his best example of role playing because we need to see him at his top to decide. we all have good days and bad days when it comes to role playing.

he will also post reasons why he should be passed through.

He will post links to websites where he has role played oftenly so we may see how he is usually.

He will be expected to answer questions that I want you guys to think up for him.

~~~~~PLEASE NOTE THAT JUST BECAUSE HE IS SKIPPING TRAINING DOES NOT MEAN HE SHOULD NOT READ THE THREADS. I WILL TELL HIM TO AT THE VERY LEAST READ THE ARDA THREADS~~~~

[Scatha]

Roleplaying example taken from Tazlure
Farathorn is my character. Maeve is the Game Designer, who moderates this storyline. Farathorn is the apprentice of Douglas, a mastersmith in the Western Kingdom. Tazlure is a setting which was created over the last year and a half, with over 200 active players and growing rapidly. The new website opens on Feb 15th.
==============================================

It was early morningtide just after a large oldfashioned breakfast by the talented matron Everglow, and Farathorn was standing in the middle of the working shop trying to decide what to work on next while he allowed his food to subside.

Business was going well, but Douglas had been absent from the shop for long stretches of time. The elf was eager to learn form his master but the oppertunity just never seemed right.

Just at that moment the burly weaponsmith entered. "Farathorn" he said with his impressive deep bariton, "You are just the man I was hoping to see. I've got a problem."

Maeve OBrien
Do not wake a sleeping dragon...

Projectmanager Tazlure <http://www.tazlure.com>


Farathorn
Apprentice of the Everglow Smithy
Posts: 110

Farathorn raises a brow at Douglas and nods slightly. He ponders briefly and replies in his usual calm and tranquil voice: "Well, I'm usually in here, so you didn't have to look far. By all means let us talk about it, to see what I can do to alleviate it. Or help you find a way to solve this matter."

The half elf points at the direction of the livingroom and prepares to follow his mentor. He takes a seat there, after Douglas does so and asks calmly: "Now then, what is this problem you spoke of and how may I be able to help?"

The apprentice leans a little inwards to Douglas and patiently awaits the expanation.


Maeve OBrien
Posts: 3984
With crowns in his eyes?

Douglas sighed "I've done you wrong lad, by not being around enough. There is much I could have taught you. I know a trick or two of dwarven smithing that would add nicely to your training. But I've been busy procuring some much needed extra business." He sat down and explained "With the girls coming of age I will need the money for their wedding. And me and my wife would like to retire some day, somewhere quietly in the country, maybe even moving back to Dort, and that also requires quite a bit of wealth."

The weaponsmith looked into the fire that as always was blazing hotly, waiting for the iron to be melted. "I guess I was overeager when the guild opened the bidding on dressing up the regiments. With the threats on our border many new recruits have been drawn in, and there is a high demand for weapons. The highest price was for the elite regiments. I've commited myself to delivering as many complete sets of standard armor and weapons as I can muster" his brows creased deeply with worry as he came to admitting the worst of it ".. made with mithril. And I've only got till the end of Samheen to deliver it." Now Douglas had no great knowledge of mithril, none of the KC weaponsmiths had. Farathorn had only recently introduced its use to the Everglow Weaponsmithy. It seemed now Douglas had been overeager to put it to good use, his Dort heritage of wanting to do big business becoming to much for him.

Douglas looked up at Farathorn "Son, you must find me both a large quantity of mithril and the manpower to create enough armor to fit a regiment. A leatherworker or two wouldn't come remiss either, since we can hardly do that on the side as well." He sighed and said with determination mixed with some guilt "I can't state the urgency enough. If I do not deliver the Regent's men will surely throw me in their dungeons for hampering the wareffort. Meanwhile I will cover the shop, and work up a sweat in the evenings to make whatever parts that can be made of normal steel."

With a flair for dramatics Douglas put a leather pouch on the table. The ringing sound left little doubt as to its contents "A 100 Crowns, all my savings up to date. This should help you buy and hire what you need, for at least the first part. I will be able to get my hands on more once the first installement has been paid by the Regent's men." He looked Farathorn straight in the eye " I'm putting a great amount of trust into you, son."

OOC: I've changed your status into supporter. You can run Douglas as NPC owner as you have in the past, allowing your PC to go adventuring while he remains. You may also hire PC's that show an interest in being an apprentice of either weaponsmithing or leatherworking.

Maeve OBrien
Projectmanager Tazlure <http://www.tazlure.com>


Farathorn
Apprentice of the Everglow Smithy (Supporter)
Posts: 111
Re: With crowns in his eyes?

Farathorn slightly gasps for air, still taking in the words that have just been poured over him. Wide-eyed he glances Douglas over and unbelievingly stares at the pouch of money.
Slowly he gathers his thoughts and a sparkle glimmers in his eyes. He comprehends the seriousness of the situation fully now, while his thoughts race to come up with the appropriate answers: " I... I am honored by your trust, Douglas. To find enough Mithril to supply our needs, I will surely have to travel to the elven lands. With the orcs on the warpath, his may not be easy. I'll need one or two elven smiths, a horse or boat to get there and hire men to guard the transport. Especially troublesome it will be to return with all those materials, perhaps travel by ship would be safest?"

The half-elf looks questioningly at Douglas.


Maeve OBrien
Posts: 4081
Re: With crowns in his eyes?

Douglas nodded "I know my lad, very dangerous indeed. That is why my heart is troubled. But I know you are better suited to the job than me. You are the adventurous type, while I have a family to take care off."

He listened to Farathorns brainstorm and had to agree "Yes, traveling by ship seems wise. I do believe there is a river route you could travel. Perchance one of your first stops should be at the wharf." He padded Farathorns hand "You have my complete trust. If anybody can do it, you can lad."

Maeve OBrien
Projectmanager Tazlure <http://www.tazlure.com>


Farathorn
Apprentice Everglow Smithy (Supporter)
Posts: 112
Re: With crowns in his eyes?

Farathorn cannot help but smile at Douglas' last comment.
"I do wish I had your confidence, but I will surely do the best I can. The wharf it is then, after I change my attire into something more suited for travel." He winks and points at the sack of money. "I'll sow the money into my armor and distribute the weight of it, so I can still move freely. It'll be safer then carrying it around like this."

The half-elf stands and heads upstairs to his room, then returns with his gear and his studded leather armor, with has a mithril ringed layer hidden within.

"I could use a hand in making the adjustments, Douglas." He states. "After all, you still are the better smith."


Reason for wanting to skip training

* I have been roleplaying for around 12 years, in various gamesystems, ranging from freeform to moderated, from D&D to Palladium games.

*I am a Senior Game Master on a roleplaying site, with over 200 active members, which I actively helped to build up.

*I am an Operator in a freeform roleplaying site on IRC.

Places I play at, or moderate at:

* Tazlure (http://pub64.ezboard.com/btazlure)

* GDI (http://www.greendragoninn.net/)

The latter is freeform RPG, played on IRC.


I am fully prepared to answer any questions, which any of you may ask, to elaborate the above.

As to why I haven't participated in roleplay so far, which I already told Anamatar in PM:

I had checked the threads played at that stage in the elven guild and found them to be of low quality, with little descriptive text of actions and people stating actions of other characters in their posts. That made me decide at that point, not to join any of them.

"At your disposal" He bows and awaits a response.

[Anamatar IV]

I am lowering the level of my vote to the others of the Grand Council:

I have a few questions:

could you please post your character's rpg profile?

My judgement:

L.c, although I stick by my decision that you are a good role player (indeed on the good side in the forum and one of the best in the Guild of Elves), I believe you could still benefit from the training. It seems to me from the links you've provided and the rp you've quoted that you would be unfamilar with the rpgs of this forum. Experience is a virtue for you but, unfortunetly, it is not experience of this forum.

Thus Anamatar, Ingolemo in Heren Istarion, spoke.

[Scatha]

Character profile, the one mentioned in the post above, or one to actively start playing here? If you mean the latter, then i'd have to ask for a few days to write up a decent biography.
(btw, I am getting the keys to my new apt on saturday, and thus will be busy in there for an amount of time.)

One thing I forgot to mention about Tazlure.
All character posts there are made in present tense, which is the way it is preferred there. Past tense shall not be a problem either.

I have begun to read the Arda threads and to be honest, spellinglessons is most of what I saw thus far. I am quite familiar with freeform roleplay, the irc based site is where I played for several years, before entering Tazlure.

As for not being familiar with the rpg's in here, no new member ever will be. I managed to play a palladium game as well as a veteran player, by reading up on the manuals/books of the setting. The settings here should be familiar, after reading LOTR 5 times, The Hobbit an equal amount of times and the silmarillion twice.

[Galdor]

LC, I must agree with Anamatar. You are oviously a very good RPer, but from your post and what you've said I think it might take you a little while to mold to the way people RP on TTF.

Remember, just because someone is in training doesn't mean that they can't be in any RPs, all it means is that you can't be in the War RPS, but those aren't doing so well right now anyway. Soon,(like when I get the time) I believe we will be making some HI rps outside of the forum timeline for students. There are a few really good RPers that are students right now, so if we decide not to let you out of training, you won't be the first really good RPer that we make g othrough training.

Also, the profile we want to see is the one for Farathorn.

I will not yet place my vote, as I wish to see your profile, and read some more of your post from the links you gave before I come to a final decision.

[Scatha]

First of all, Anamatar and Galdor, thank you for the opportunity of even discussing this, and the kind words regarding my experience as an RP gamer. :)


I'll be really looking forward to see those RP's start, Galdor.

As for Farathorn's profile, it is not as elaborate as I'd like it to be, but then again, it is from an entirely different game-system. :)

==============================================
Name: Farathorn
Gender: male
Race: Half-elf
Age: 32 years
Religion: Mother Earth

Farathorn is a muscular man,despite his elven heritage. He stands at 5'11" and has long black hair,which is tied back with a leather strap. His green eyes seem to catch everything around him,a trait he picked up while living with the elves. His features are refined,as most elves have,and he's rather attractive. His attire consists of leather clothing (boots,breeches and jerkin),combined with a green linen shirt and a chainmail.

Hanging from his belt are two short swords and a large knife is tucked into his boot.

On his back,beside the backpack,are a longbow and quiver. He is generally friendly and somewhat inquisitive,yet always wary of those that try to mock him. Despite his wariness,he's difficult to provoke.

He left his house in search for a place to call home,since neither elf or human accepted him as a full member of the community. For the elves he was too tall and grew up too quick. Among humans he always had to explain his looks. Tired of this all,he decided to try his luck on the road.

The elves did him one favor tho,teaching him to use the weapons he carried. Where as the humans got him educated in the fields of armory and weaponmaking. Not good enough to open up a shop,yet further then most that start an apprentiseship with a guildsman.

Working here and there to finance his travels,he finally arrived at the 'King's Court'.
It struck him that the city was most likely built by elves,he after all knew their architecture. Perhaps he found his 'home'.


Academic Skills:
Language (elven) master
Language (human) basic
Literacy [[human]] basic


Care & Spirit Skills:
Detect truth/deception basic
Healing basic


Combat Skills:
Two weapons Fighting basic +** THD 10/13


Fine Arts Skills none


Illicit Skills none


Merchant Skills:
Book keeping basic
Weaponsmithing apprentice
Armory apprentice
Bartering/Haggling apprentice
Business Perception apprentice
Leatherworking basic
Blacksmithing basic


Nature Skills:
Soundless movement [[forest]] basic +**
Survival basic


Physical Skills none


Political Skills none


Weapon's Skills Use of short swords basic +**
Use of longbow basic +**



Equipment:
2 short swords
1 longbow
Mithril chain mail (made in the smithy IC)
waterproof boots
studded belt
leather breeches
linen shirt
leather jerkin
tunic
waterskin
eating set,wood
arrows,hunting sharp
arrows,war piercing
knife,large
helm,nasal
flint&steel
leather backpack
rations,1 week
lamp (oil),smokeless
ring,seal

Balance: 14 lance,1 banner (57 banners)
Deduction: 6 banners (monthly off-screen)
Addition: 5 circlets p/w (apprentice wages), 1 coronet (given by gnash)
Addition: 5 circlets p/w (apprentice wages) by Osk on 25-Apr-02
Total: 17 circlets,3 banners (4 coronet, 1 circlet, 3 banner)
==============================================

That is the Tazlure character sheet for this PC.
All characters at that site start off with 10 skills at a basic level.


On the IRC site, I play a character by the name of my login.
That character is a freeform PC and has an elaborate background.
If you'd like me to post that as well, please let me know.

[Anamatar IV]

hmmm, yes I think you really need some time to get used to how this forum rpgs work. The differences between this forum and the two you posted are:

those two are more of REAL rpgs. This forum is more like a joint story writing. One person says this another person says that. There is nothing to calculate or decide upon or anything.

Those two are more formal. Exactly that. In these rps you just say what happens and it happens. As I said earlier, it is more of writing a story than role playing.

The battles are much different. From what I see on those sites you are used to describing every move of the battle, saying how much damage you do with an attack, saying you defend this or that and end up calculating how much HP you lose. In this forum if you never want your character hurt you don't need him to be. You say something and it happens. Again, I revert to what I have said numerous times previously:

The way we role play here is writting a story. The case with many rpgs on this forum is that the maker of the rpg makes it into a document and saves it as a story.

There are STORIES here...and lives there. I see by your sites that there are many threads, each of a new place and all the threads intertwining with another. That is how we do it in HI but not in the forum. In the forum each thread is a different story in a different time with different characters and a different plot and, sometimes, a whole other world.

[Scatha]

As for Tazlure, Galdor.

I was the person responsible for creating the kingdoms of Tel`Aranae Quessir and Gulanadur, most of which is my own work, including society and NPC's.

My PC can be found there at:

Kings Court: Farathorn's adventure.


Anamatar,

Yes indeed, Tazlure works that way. The other site however does not. That works mostly the same as it does here. It is not played on the boards, but generally played out on an irc chat-channel.

[Nenya Evenstar]

Lord Caelin, I have not yet read through all of the information that you gave but I would like to ask you to please not leave quite yet. From what I have seen so far I think you would be a more than possible candidate for skipping training and I think you'd be a valuable addition to this guild's training staff. As you pointed out, the training lessons so far are no more than spelling and grammar lessons, something which I do not think you need much practice in. Overall I do not know how much this guild's activities could be very useful to you as a person. I think you already know just almost everything we could teach.

As for you not knowing what is going on with Role-playing because of a "lack of experience" on this forum, I have to say I do not agree with those who have said this. Role-playing on this forum is nothing short of writing and I believe you are more than capable of doing just that.

So, I'll leave you all with that. I'll be reading over the information given in full detail sometime today and will reply once more. :)

[Nenya Evenstar]

Ok, after looking over your posts one more time, Caelin, I still stick to what I said before. I do not think you would benefit from the training that we can give you. I think you will be more than fine in adapting to anything the Role-playing on this forum has to offer. You do show a few errors with spacing, spelling, etc. but that could easily be fixed with care on your part. Anyway, I think you would be a prime candidate to pass through the training of Heren Istarion. :)

Remember, just because someone is in training doesn't mean that they can't be in any RPs, all it means is that you can't be in the War RPS, but those aren't doing so well right now anyway. This is not necessarily true though! We do not have the right to introduce just anyone into the War RP's and I do not think we should. In fact, I'm not sure I know what the point of graduating from HI is.... I think we need some kind of badge to signify that a person is a graduate of Heren Istarion. Hopefully in the future it can become something RPers of TTF want to wear because it would signify excellence. :p Perhaps something in sigs would work well?

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

Bah! I would like to be a trainer in HI, because as you can see, half of the classes havent started yet! I would be a fine addition to the team, along with providing diversity as being the only Dwarf!

But seriously, we are not getting anywhere, except more spam, and more discussions on leaving and entering classes than the ACTUAL LEARNING! :rolleyes:

[Nenya Evenstar]

You have my vote Dain...you need to post something here though. I'm not quite sure what. As soon as Anamatar lets you know what that is we'll vote on you. ;)

[Anamatar IV]

Didn't we decide a while ago what to do about Dain? he would be trained BUT his other character would train? Things don't need to be so complicated. Dain is already in training....why take him out now?

And by the way....people of arda and the archery classes seem to be moving find.

[Galdor]

Nenya, I was not refering to the war RPs, but to the idea that I have presented a few times. Which is to have a part of the HI outside of the war RPs, in other words to create a whole other world for the HI, I already have a few ideas for this. My reason for wanting to do this is do to the fact that the war RPs and in shambles, and I think that the HI would benifit from rps of it's own. But this is an issue to talk of later, lets deal with the issues at hand first.

After looking at LC's profile I am sure that I will stick by my decision.

My final vote is to not pass LC out of training, remember, we didn't let Dain or Rasec out of training, and I deem them at the same level as LC, if not better.

That is 1 vote for, and 2 votes against. 4 votes remain to be cast.

[Azog]

I think that he should pass by it, but since Dain couldn't, it isn't fair that he could. (I vote against)

[ILLOTRTM]

Yes, I think perhaps LC could benifit from the training. He's
VERY good, though!.... well, IMHO, that is....

[Galdor]

Ok, that makes 1 for, and 4 against. Two votes remain to be cast, but no matter which way they vote the majority is still against LC skiping training.

LC, the vote is final, you will have to ge through training. I do hope you don't take insult from this, and that you will still take part in this guild.

[Nenya Evenstar]

Unless the good ol' Nenya comes around and puts on her stubborn face and fights....:rolleyes:

AHEM!!!!

Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to bring to your attention the fact that we do need more trainers. In order for us to have more trainers at the moment we are going to have to allow some people to pass through training. We cannot have trainers who are still taking classes. The level of respect for them would not be near what would be needed.

1) I see no reason why Dain or LC need be trained. On the contrary, I think that they could both lend a very adequate side to our small training force.

2) Dain would prefer to not have to go through training. I know this for a fact, Anamatar.

3) I think it unwise for us, in the case of Dain, to allow him to have one character in training and one character out of training simply because of any respect issues that might come up.

4) Dain and LC will get practically nothing out of any course we can offer them.

5) Most of us are novice RPers. I just started in August. I think someone with a lot of experience (like Elessar, Azog, and Caelin) would be a good addative to our training force.

6) I spoke against raising Rasec simply because he does not have as good of a grasp of the English language as I think is needed to actually teach it. Yes, he has worked wonders in the past few months, but I think I speak for him when I say that he would not be comfortable in a teacher's position.

7) We need teachers. We have two perfectly good people right here who are more than capable and who will get barely nothing out of training. Why not use them?

I think Azog would agree with me wholeheartedly. I still do not understand why Dain cannot pass either. We need to make these decisions! I beg of you all to reconsider your votes.

[Anamatar IV]

Nenya, we'll let Dain present his case after we decide on what to do for LC. Really now, it seems in all your posts you are changing the subject (and in most of them you are suggesting Dain be passed out of training:rolleyes: )

We will finish our plans on what to do with LC and THEN decide with Dain.

also, you said most of the trainers are novice and that we should have more experienced ones.....Dain has been role playing for little more than a month, no matter how great he is he is still new to it.

[Nenya Evenstar]

Dain and Lord Caelin go hand-in-hand because they both have to do with the same issue.
also, you said most of the trainers are novice and that we should have more experienced ones.....Dain has been role playing for little more than a month, no matter how great he is he is still new to it. Exactly my point! I do not think it really matters how long you've been role-playing. Look at us? Dain really has no less experience than some of us. I don't think this should be an issue at all. I did not say that we should have more experienced ones...simply that some added people WITH experience on the training team would be nice.

[Anamatar IV]

okay as the guild leader I am afraid I have to end this here. The vote has been taken and all the stubborness in the world can't change that. The majority of the Grand Council says Lord Caelin shall not pass out of training and thus he will not. I will pm Dain with the same instructions I did LC. We will let Dain speak his piece. We will not vote until then.

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

Originally posted in the March from the North:
"Horses were never my favorite thing to ride, and are known to dislike Dwarves!" complained Dain Ironfoot, rubbing his sore legs. They rode long and hard, not stopping for so much as a water break. Peril and death was soon come to this fair city, and Dain was determined to do all in his power to defend the people of Mithlond.

Dain Ironfoot was a Captain of Heren Istarion, hailing from Erebor, and was no stranger to war. His armor was that of mithril, its individual links gleaming in the torch-light, making the Dwarf appear like a star that had fallen upon the earth. His large helm was copper in color, it resembled the face of a terrible Dragon of old, and his bright brown eyes blazed forth like the forges of Aule himself.

"Alright men! Set up your camps and take your rations!" the Dwarf bellowed, and the soldiers of Heren Istarion were glad to obey his command. Ignoring his own command, Dain dismounted his steed, as did the Elf at his side, Rasec. Together, they departed for the city wall, where the Lady Arathin was to be found.

"Hail! Captains of HI! We are to report to Arathin as well, lead the way!" yelled another Dwarf, Nain Ironfoot of the Dunedian. At his side was Ecthelion, a grin was upon his face. The four found their way to the city wall, at the camp of Lady Arathin. Dain was amazed by the woman's sheer beauty, her face was like a perfect gem, clear and unmarred by outside forces.

"Lady, I am Dain Ironfoot, Captain of Heren Istarion. At my side is Captain Rasec, also of HI. I am sure you know the Dunedian, M'Lady," spoke Dain, adding an awkward bow as he was finished. "Our armies are trained and ready to battle the Mornclaur, and my service is yours." The Dwarf then laid his axe in front of him, its smooth surface shone like pale moonlight, yet the clouds had covered the sky.

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

Originally posted in the RP simulator:
A single torch was lit in the darkness that was Khazad-dum. As if the Sun herself had fallen into the deep places of the earth, so was the darkness lifted, and all around the torch bearer was a vast open space, filled with glittering sapphire and sparkling silver, slowly rippling in the silent halls of Khazad-dum. This was the hidden pool of Khezed-zigil, the pool which had quenched the fires of Durin's bane and the light of Tharkun the Grey in their clamatic battle in ages past. The enchantments of Tharkun, ripping through Durin's bane, had purged the lake of the evil creatures lurking within, and transformed it into a well of eternal beauty.

On the edge of the silent water stumbled two Dwarves clad in mithril and iron, the Ironfoots of Erebor. "Dain, is this not more beautiful than the mithril mines we saw upon the surface? I could stay here forever, and forget the troubles of the Lonely Mountain!" bellowed Kilease Ironfoot, wife of Dain, daughter of Kloin, son of Fudin. Her voice was deep and brisk, but softer than a thread of gold on a Dwarf-lass' raiment. Her beard was long and golden-brown, and her face was cheerful and radiated with bliss and adventure.

"Nay, my Diamond of Erebor, we must not forget our task at hand. We must make an alliance with the Dwarves of Khazad-dum before Erebor falls at the hands of the evil Men of the East. The Elves have left these shores, and Men of Gondor do not respect the old alliances, wishing to forget the days of old," said Dain, his eyes drifting unto the clear waters of Kheled-zigil. His heart thought only of his people, of the kingdom that he had inherited from his father, and the father before him, and so on.

Slowly they descended into a small craft floating in the pool, rocking gently in a non-existent breeze. Its hull was made of wood and was squarelike in shape, much unlike the design of the Elves of ages past. Inside lay two oars, squarelike in fashion, and Dain began to paddle, enjoying the feel of the soft splash of water clash against his armor. This pool was large indeed, and it would take a few hours to reach their goal, the hidden Dwarf-city of Khazad-narag. The air had gone cold, stetching its icy fingers towards the boat, clutching the Dwarves in its icy grasp.

"Milord, it grows cold upon this fair pool, but I think it to be the wind from Zirak-zigil, it blows hard and chills me to the roots of my beard. Hold me, for I desire your warmth!" Kilease commanded, and curled up against Dain's chest, feeling his beard scratch her rough face. Alas! it was moments like this that Kilease wished herself to be in the warmth of Erebor's treasury, weaving gold between her fingers and bending them into creations of her own.

The water rippled smoothly against the ship's sides, the torch guiding them through the otherwise impenetrable darkness. Pinnacles of rock and mineral loomed overhead, casting shadows of terror and closing in on the Dwarves from overhead. Dain felt like he was in the forests of Fangorn, the air was thick and overcast, yet he felt secure and comfortable, as were the hearts of Dwarves in the deep places of the earth. Wishing to see more of the cavern, Dain removed the torch from its holder, and held it aloft in the musty air. The radiance of the torch excitedly leapt off of every spike of rock and every drop of water it made contact with, and Dain and Kilease gazed in awe of the beauty of the deepest place in Khazad-dum. The stalagmites were of obsidian, blacker than night, and about them were strains of mithril, swirling into each individual pinnacle. The enitre cavern and pool was aflame with the white ambience of the mithril, and the water glowed with an aura of silver upon the walls of the cave. But in the center of it all was an island of stone and sapphire, towering into the ceiling of the cavern and branching outwards in a network of chambers and passages. It's archways were of gold, and its piers of copperish wood. Torch-light of red and gold could be seen from the openings in the great castle, and three boats of the same kind as Dain's poured forth from the stronghold to greet the travellers.

Speech could not describe the beauty of the Dwarf-realm of Khazad-narag, hidden within the confines of the darkness of Khazad-dum. A tear of pearl it seemed fell from Kilease's eye, such was the beauty of this place of marvel and craft. And Dain looked into the eyes of his beloved, and she into his, and they embraced.

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

OK, the first post is from a War RP, and the second is from the Simulator and is my personal favorite.

My main reason for not wanting to go through training is because I would like to be of more importance and have more power and say in this guild. I want to teach and not be taught, because I know the stuff I am being taught. Notice how I dont post in the class threads: that is because there is nothing being taught. It is all student to student discussions, save a few actual questions to a teacher. If I had some classes of my own, I feel I could actually take control and teach some people about whatever it is I am teaching.

I have posted in the War RP's, private RPs, and others soon to come. I have already been granted the position as an honorary GC member.. why not go the extra two steps? And they are really little baby steps anyway ;) ... I just dont see what I can possibly benefit from the classes that are being offered here.

[Anamatar IV]

I will hold my vote for now. I just want a few things:

1: Post your rp profile if you would.

2: Could you make me a post following this ending:

The Warg's bite was poisonous to mortal skin and Osterel lay there dying. His one companion came running to him after he shot down the hideous beast.

Requirements for this:

you must have a new character and it must not be a Dwarf.

[¤-Elessar-¤]

sounds good, Dain. Sounds really good. But we have to see how you do on the spot, and out of your element. Pick up where Anam left off.