Quenya Questions Here - Help Wanted!

[Elennainie]

I thought we could start a thread where, if someone has a specific question about Quenya, he/she can post it here, instead of having a bunch of little threads. Hopefully some of our more learned Quenya speakers can help those of us who are learning.

My first question:
I'm writing a poem in Quenya and have tried to figure most of it out on my own, but I've hit a brick wall with some words. Does anyone know, in the phrase "gleaming halls", in the nominative plural, what the correct quenya word is for "gleaming"? I know the participle "gleaming" is "ilcala" (acc. to Fauskanger's ardalambion list), but I can't decide whether in plural it would be "ilcalar" or "ilcalë". I know adjectives that end in "a" take "ë" in the plural, and it seems that the participle is being used as an adjective here. But a participle also seems like a verb, and they take "r" in the plural. Can anyone help me?

[Kementari]

I don't know any better than you do. Its a shame so the language is so incomplete and confusing....but I'd go with ilcale for gleaming

[Scatha]

I know the participle "gleaming" is "ilcala" (acc. to Fauskanger's ardalambion list), but I can't decide whether in plural it would be "ilcalar" or "ilcalë". I know adjectives that end in "a" take "ë" in the plural, and it seems that the participle is being used as an adjective here. But a participle also seems like a verb, and they take "r" in the plural.


Looks like you answered your own question.
If it is used as an adjective, then treat it as such.

[Cian]

With regards to inflecting a present participle Helge (currently) suggests the plurality question be based on example rámar sisílala "wings shining", (participle of sisíla-, which is in turn said to be the "frequentative" form)

"Adjectives in -a have plural forms in -ë, and the adjectival participle might have been excepted to behave in the same way, changing its ending to -lë when it describes a plural noun. This is evidently not the case; the ending -la is unchanged in the plural, so present participles do not show number at all. This may be to avoid confusion with the verbal noun ending -lë, as in Ainulindalë (lit. *"Ainu-singing", translated "Music of the Ainur" by Tolkien). ~ Helge

[Elennainie]

Thanks to all of you for your help!

Cian, what does "inflecting" mean?

How long have you guys been writing Quenya? I'm wondering how long it will take to become semi-proficient so I won't have to bug you with questions. ;)

[Elennainie]

How do you say "You will speak to me"? I know the "quentuval" (you will talk) but how do you say "to me"? I can't find the dative of "me" on the ardalambion site, and I think that's what is needed, right - dative for indirect object? Thanks!

[Ataralas]

ok, time for my question
where did you guys go to learn the language?
my name, is in Quenya, but i didn't know how to write or even get the words. I found sites with the words, but I didn't know how to string them together or anything.
My friend and i have been searching the web and books, so any knowledge would help me out extremely.
ataralas

[Elennainie]

Aiya! Welcome to the forum, Ataralas!!! :D I understand the "father" part of your name, but not the rest. What does it mean?

To learn Quenya, go here: http://www.ardalambion.com and click on Quenya course. It is generally agreed this is the best site for learning Quenya. You have to download the lessons. If you need any help, just PM me. I'll be glad to help you learn Quenya, as far as I am able. Right now I'm in lesson 9 of that course, so I'm still a beginner too. There's a course going on over in the Guild of Tolkienology, if you want extra exercises. We made them for every chapter.

Here's a little something fun to learn: "Manna esselya?" means "What is your name?" Then you can say "Essinya Ataralas", "My name is Ataralas! And "Quetin Quenya", which means "I speak Quenya". :) Have fun learning, it's a beautiful language!

[Ataralas]

My name, was from a web site that had names (normal) into Quenyan.
My name is Abby, which is Hebrew for Father's Joy. This is what I am assuming my name means.
Thanks for the web site. I will put it to good use.
Keep in touch, i'll need someone to talk to in this language.

[CelebrianTiwele]

i am soooooooooooooo confused. I'm learning the elvish from the grey-company and i don't know if its sindarin or quenya or wut? its the stuff thats like, suilad is hello, mae govannen is well met, that. can anyone help me?

[Elennainie]

I don't think the Elvish on the Grey Company site is either Quenya or Sindarin strictly. It's not the same as Tolkien's elvish languages (they even say that on the site). Suilad and Mae govannen, though, are Sindarin. If you want to know Tolkien's elvish languages, I'd recommend ardalambion.com.

[CelebrianTiwele]

well on the grey company, it had tolkien's elvish and their elvish. i choose tolkien elvish. i think i'll stick to grey company cuz i took one look at ardalambion and like fainted. im not that smart. :D but i think the one i found (w/ suilad and mae govannen) is tolkien's elvish because it has alot of other words that coincide with wut the book says. but ya :D

[Joehunt]

Originally posted by Kementari
I don't know any better than you do. Its a shame so the language is so incomplete and confusing....but I'd go with ilcale for gleaming
I know someone who is a Quenyan expert. E-mail her if you have questions. Her E-mail is
freedomebelle@hotmail.com
Joehunt
ps how do you get the pictures under your name?

[The_Swordmaster]

Joehunt you need 101 posts to get an avatar a.k.a. the picture thing under your name.

[Lantarion]

Originally posted by Elennainië
I understand the "father" part of your name, but not the rest. What does it mean?
I think it's a short form of lassë, 'leaf'. And las I think just on its own means 'leaf' in Sindarin.. If not on its own then it is certainly the general body. But it would seem a bit silly to have first a Quenya word atar and then a Sindarin word!
Anyway, 'Father-leaf'? :confused: :)

But yeah, Ardalambion (lambë = tongue, langauge) is the single best site I've found on the Eldarin laguages.. But Nólë Parma Lambeo Areldava (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/2196/) is also a fabulous place, with a very interesting wordlist as well as a Quenya course.

[Elennainie]

...or maybe it was from "alassë", for "joy", since she says her name means "father's joy" in Hebrew. Then both words would be Quenya. Just a thought. And I love that Nólë Parma Lambeo Areldava's dictionary. I use it all the time! :) Is it your site? Are you interested in Quenya poetry at all, Lantarion? If so, PM me and I'll tell you about this great new poetry group forming. The first poem we are studying is Namárië.

[MemorableArwen]

How do you say "You will speak to me"? I know the "quentuval" (you will talk) but how do you say "to me"? I can't find the dative of "me" on the ardalambion site, and I think that's what is needed, right - dative for indirect object? Thanks!



Try with NIN as "To me (for me)"

NI- independant pronoun "I" plus dative ending -N.

[Valandil]

For a little fanfic project, I need in Quenya:

A masculine name meaning: 'Restorer' or some approximation

If too short, could be along the lines of 'North-restorer'

Does this forum have a place for fanfic, btw? :)

[Elennainie]

"Envinyatar" means "the Renewer" (LotR3:V ch. 8) - information from ardalambion.

"Formen" means "North.

If you have any other questions, just ask! :)

[Valandil]

"Envinyatar" means "the Renewer" (LotR3:V ch. 8) - information from ardalambion.

"Formen" means "North.

If you have any other questions, just ask! :)

'Envinyatar' works very well... thank you! I sorta knew about 'Formen' and 'Forn' but didn't have the Sil handy to check which was which... or if those were maybe Sindarin and a different word meant 'north' in Quenya. :)

[Ruinel]

"Envinyatar" means "the Renewer" (LotR3:V ch. 8) - information from ardalambion.

"Formen" means "North.

If you have any other questions, just ask! :)
en-vinya-tar = "re-new-king/lord"

I think you mean..
en-vinya-tan = "re-new-maker/builder"
Using -tan instead of -tar, as in the masculine names Minastan ("Tower-maker") and Ciryatan ("Ship-builder").

Tar-Envinyatan would mean "Lord/King Renewmaker"

[edit: btw... there doesn't seem to be a thread where Quenya speakers might converse? So, I'll start one.]

[Valandil]

OK - another one, if I may ask:

A name for someone who is a great swimmer... a masculine form, and a feminine form of maybe a different way to say it.

The situation would be two people who encounter one another while swimming - and the first (male) wishes to keep his identity a secret, so gives a name which makes the claim of being proficient at swimming. The other (female) then responds similarly, with a feminine name, but preferably with a different root.

I don't know exactly what the word choices might be... but if the first claimed to be 'lord of swimmers' or 'greatest swimmer in the world'... and the second tries to trump that claim with 'mistress of waters' or 'water incarnate' or some such... :)

Oh - this goes beyond the thread's title, but could I get Sindarin versions as well, if known?