Is Canada up to the task?

[Gloer]

"Canada is the linchpin of the English-speaking world. Canada, with those relations of friendly, affectionate intimacy with the United States on the one hand and with her unswerving fidelity to the British Commonwealth and the Motherland on the other, is the link which joins together these great branches of the human family, a link which, spanning the oceans, brings the continents into their true relation and will prevent in future generations any growth of division between the proud and the happy nations of Europe and the great countries which have come into existence in the New World."

[Thorin]

I don't know where you got that quote from, but it seems to me that Canada really has squat to do with US/England-Europe relations. They are doing fine on their own.

Canada is an ally of both and a member of the UN. That's pretty much it. A bridge of some sort? I doubt it. As far as the US is concerned, Canada pretty much doesn't exist and the English probably think we're still one of their colonies. :D

[Parrot]

You know Thorin, attitudes like these are precisely why we haven't let Canada become a state yet (well, that and changing all the flags). :)

[faila]

canada is horrible. A nation with nationalized health care which obviously doesnt work. Their army is incredbly small, and We should break all ties with them........... and hope they go into ruin.

[Rangerdave]

Originally posted by faila
A nation with nationalized health care which obviously doesnt work. As opposed to a private medical care system that obviously doesn't work either.

Their army is incredbly small
How big of a military do they really need? The last time I noticed, the only military threat facing Canada was from Polar Bears.
And unlike the US they do not feel the need to arm bears.

RD

[Thorin]

Originally posted by faila
canada is horrible. A nation with nationalized health care which obviously doesnt work. Their army is incredbly small, and We should break all ties with them........... and hope they go into ruin.

By crikey! What a novel idea! Now if only they knew where Canada was! What would we EVER do without the US to support us and give us all we need? Gosh, we'd just fall apart!! :rolleyes:

Despite what you think, faila, our nation, nor any other nation's survival is not hinged on the US nor ever has depended on it for our survival. It is this egocentric, uninformed thinking that has made the US what it is in the eyes of the world today.

Never mind that we probably have twice the natural resources of the US and the most fresh lake water in the entire world. How vain are you to think that we need to depend on the US? And last time I heard, it wasn't our senior citizens running down to the States to get their prescription pills!

[faila]

Originally posted by Thorin
By crikey! What a novel idea! Now if only they knew where Canada was! What would we EVER do without the US to support us and give us all we need? Gosh, we'd just fall apart!! :rolleyes:

Despite what you think, faila, our nation, nor any other nation's survival is not hinged on the US nor ever has depended on it for our survival. It is this egocentric, uninformed thinking that has made the US what it is in the eyes of the world today.

Never mind that we probably have twice the natural resources of the US and the most fresh lake water in the entire world. How vain are you to think that we need to depend on the US? And last time I heard, it wasn't our senior citizens running down to the States to get their prescription pills! I never really said that without the US they would fall, i just said i hoped they would. And yes i am egotistical, get used to it, america has all the natioal resources that we would want, and we are not half as limited on our freedom of speech.

Privatized medicine does work, why else are we one of the healthiest nations on the face of the earth, heck those that cant afford medicine need to get off their bum and make the american dream happen. Anything in the end privatize works. (thier are a few exceptions to this anything, and medicine isnt one of them)

[Aulë]

Their army is incredbly small
Well they don't seem to be picking fights with other countries (Unlike one of their neighbours at the moment....) so I don't think they feel to need to produce one. The same goes for countries such as Australia, South Africa and New Zealand

[Legolam]

else are we one of the healthiest nations on the face of the earth Hee hee, what???

[Parrot]

GOOD NEWS! Canada has offered to help the U.S. in the war on Iraq!

They have pledged:

2 battleships, 6000 troops and 10 fighter jets...

BAD NEWS! With the current exchange rate that comes out to:

2 canoes, a Mountie and a couple of flying squirrels.

Sorry Thorin, I COULD NOT resist

[FoolOfATook]

(Unlike one of their neighbours at the moment....)

Yeah! I hate Greenland too. ;)

[Thorin]

Originally posted by Parrot
GOOD NEWS! Canada has offered to help the U.S. in the war on Iraq!

They have pledged:

2 battleships, 6000 troops and 10 fighter jets...

BAD NEWS! With the current exchange rate that comes out to:

2 canoes, a Mountie and a couple of flying squirrels.

Sorry Thorin, I COULD NOT resist

LOL! That's a good one, Parrot!

Yeah, my wife and I are starting to invest in the US so we can make a killing on the exchange. With our luck, the dollar will end up on par with the US.

[Gloer]

That quote was from a Nobel laureate.

He is so far the only person to receive the Nobel literature prize
"- - for brilliant oratory in defending exalted human values"

Sir Winston Churchill.

[Aulë]

Originally posted by FoolOfATook
Yeah! I hate Greenland too. ;)

Hmmm, from the intelligence of that responce, I'm guessing that you are an American?:rolleyes:

[Parrot]

Originally posted by Pippin_Took
Hmmm, from the intelligence of that responce, I'm guessing that you are an American?:rolleyes:

Hmmmm, we can all only hope for more intelligent and enlightened responses like this. :rolleyes: :mad: :(

[Aulë]

Originally posted by Parrot
Hmmmm, we can all only hope for more intelligent and enlightened responses like this. :rolleyes: :mad: :(

Oh no! Another American!;)

(Maybe I should give up now, before the other 1000 Americans on this forum start attacking me. :D

[Asha'man]

Give up what? I haven't seen an intelligent post from you yet in this thread. Try arguing a point rather than just bashing Americans and this could actually become a debate. :rolleyes:

Ash

[Aulë]

I was saying that I was going to give up making humourous remarks about Americans, I was never "bashing" them.
I do not like the stereotypical American one bit at this time. But after a discussion with an American recently, I have discovered that it was all based on what I thought of your president. When Clinton was in power, I liked Americans, they kept peace in this world, and the Lewinski Affair kept me laughing all day at work with all the jokes that were made about it.
When Bush came into power though, all he seemed to be doing was trying to fix up his fathers mistake in not killing Hussain in the Gulf War. He is a war monger and he will attack Iraq whether or not the inspectors say that there are chemical weapons being hidden. He isn't the brightest of presidents, as an incident where he looked through the wrong end of a pair of binoculars show.
The American nation is judged on how their president acts, and that is why they are being hated at the moment.

[Asha'man]

Show me where he looks through the wrong end of the binoculars. If it's the pic I'm thinking of, they're not backwards (lens caps are on) and it's a photochop from a TV show anyway.

He's dumb? Let me know when you've graduated from Yale and maybe then I'll listen to you.

Good reasons to base an opinion on. :rolleyes:

Ash

[ms Greenleaf]

Okay get this Cananda does not have a big army because ...amazingly enough Canada does not start wars.

The upsides to living in Canada are

1 you get to laugh at the dumb Americans who do not know you exist or think you still live in igloo's proof. A canadian TV show went down to the US and asked money for support so they could pay for a giant globe to go around canada so that we would not have to worry about global warming affecting our igloo's...okay so I do not know how true the source is but hey it could happen

2 We have health care...sure alot of you think its stupid but listen to this ... sometimes there are smart poor kids who if they lived in the USA would die when they got sick BUT because they live in Canada they got medical treatment and lived and now they are helping the community... health care is amazing.

3. We do have freedom of speech here we just choose to think before we ttalk and the only time we do not have freedom of speech is when one of theAmerican presidents hhears what everyone keeps telling him from a person in the Canadian parliment.

4 You are all just mad that we killed you in hockey...5 2

5 Yale is not all mighty ot depends on what you are taking I am going into acting and England looks a hell of a lot better to me then Yale... before anyone asks I am not going into acting because I am stupid I actually am in the IB program which oddly enough means nothing to most alericans but a lot tothe rest of the world.

[Thorin]

Originally posted by ms Greenleaf
The upsides to living in Canada are

1 you get to laugh at the dumb Americans who do not know you exist or think you still live in igloo's proof. A canadian TV show went down to the US and asked money for support so they could pay for a giant globe to go around canada so that we would not have to worry about global warming affecting our igloo's...okay so I do not know how true the source is but hey it could happen

It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant most Americans are of the world around them, even in their own country, never mind their next door neighbors. I'm assuming you are talking about "Talking to Americans" from "This Hour Has 22 Minutes". It's all true and even more absolutely incredible stories of ignorance. Just on TV the other day, there was that "Most Outrageous Game Show Moments" and the host of the show was in a mall interviewing people. The people who he was questioning couldn't even finish a nursery rhyme (and I'm talking "Mary had a little lamb it's fleece was...." The answer? "Very sticky??") and all interviewed didn't even know who their vice president was.

[ms Greenleaf]

That is INCREDIBLY SAD...I am assuming you are from Canada as well...

[Parrot]

Originally posted by Thorin
It never ceases to amaze me how ignorant most Americans are of the world around them, even in their own country, never mind their next door neighbors.
Always nice to take an isolated, orchestrated, edited, anecdotal incident and extrapolate it to an indictment of the collective intelligence of a country's whole population. These kinds of posts really attest to the absence of Canadian ignorance and arrogance. :rolleyes: I am not sure what the mere existence of a show who's sole point seems to be American bashing says about Canada, but I'm pretty sure it's not good. Sorry about your little inferiority complex, but hey, get over it.

[Thorin]

Originally posted by Parrot
Always nice to take an isolated, orchestrated, edited, anecdotal incident and extrapolate it to an indictment of the collective intelligence of a country's whole population. These kinds of posts really attest to the absence of Canadian ignorance and arrogance. :rolleyes: I am not sure what the mere existence of a show who's sole point seems to be American bashing says about Canada, but I'm pretty sure it's not good. Sorry about your little inferiority complex, but hey, get over it.

Had there not been MANY examples of these shows, showing examples from MANY people from ALL over America (heck, even Jay Leno shows the ignorance of many on his show!), nor had I not encountered it in the 23 states I've visited in the numerous times I've vacationed and visited them, your point might be valid.

However, my experience shows that most Americans are ignorant of the world around them, and make no bones about it. There argument? "Who cares about the world. America is IT." I've ecountered this attitude as well. Even Bush and Gore didn't know the name of the Prime Minister when they were campaigning, nor the capital city. The governers of Arkansas and Iowa think we have a national igloo that is suffering due to global warming. How can we expect any more from their citizens?

Our only hope if for those Americans who actually travel up here and visit us to dispel the ludicrous myths of many Americans concerning Canada who can't think outside their own city, never mind their own state.

[Ciryaher]

I'm going up to Canada next month, so I will be going to my first foreign nation :)

I'm kindof a current events/geography buff, so it scares me more than it scares Canadians to know how stupid some people are here in America.

[Lantalasse]

Originally posted by ms Greenleaf

5 Yale is not all mighty ot depends on what you are taking I am going into acting and England looks a hell of a lot better to me then Yale... before anyone asks I am not going into acting because I am stupid I actually am in the IB program which oddly enough means nothing to most alericans but a lot tothe rest of the world.

people who would assume that your engaging in a highly remarkable and difficult form of art would make you stupid are not only entirely disillusioned but also incredibly shallow.
are you actually coming to england to study?

[Gandalf White]

Sheez, this thread started off bad, and only got worse! :p I aren't a stoopid aMericun. :D

Anyways....
I just stopped in to say I am not an ignorant American. Our president is not stupid, but is one with a backbone. I am aware Canada exists, and respect them, and do not bash them in any way. It's true, I'm not very familiar with their government, health care, etc., but oh well. However, I'm sure they're very intelligent people, just as many Americans are.

Just thought you needed some positive posts on here! :D

[Ciryaher]

It's not really fair that people can bash the US for not knowing their governments when the bashers don't even understand the system of checks and balances that is the axiom of the US government.

[Thorin]

Originally posted by Ciryaher
It's not really fair that people can bash the US for not knowing their governments when the bashers don't even understand the system of checks and balances that is the axiom of the US government.

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not talking about understanding the intricacies of each other's internal government or politics, even I plead some ignorance on that. That is understandable. However, when Americans from all corners of the continent know not only so little, but have such gross mythical perceptions of their closest neighbor concerning simple geography and culture, there is something horribly wrong. Here are some of the things some Americans believe:

1) That Canada has two months of darkness (a fifth season)
2) That as soon as you cross the border of their own country, there are igloos, polar bears, dog sleds and ice floes
3) That we just received our first 800 miles of paved road, our first newspaper and our first jet.
4) Some Floridians believe that we choose our political parties by voting with either putting a pine cone or a rock in a box.
5) That we have states and a president instead of provinces and a Prime Minister
6) That we just switched to the 24 hour clock from the 20 hour clock
7) That a bridge was just built from Alberta to Nova Scotia (the equivalent of one from Colorado to New York)
8) That 70% of Canada is mentally handicapped
9) No clue as to who our Prime Minister is (I guess when some don't even know who their own vice president is, that is understandable though not acceptable)
10) That Canada has a king as a ruler
11) That we don't have a navy because we don't have access to an ocean.:confused:

I wish I could say that this was the most ignorant amongst you who believes this and that it is the minority, but my experience shows otherwise. Sad, sad, sad.

[ms Greenleaf]

I might be coming to England to study in a few more years... If I can get a scholarship because to live away like that would be exspensive especially since all my relatives that lived there moved to Canada...my Grandma and Grampa were English...anywaY cYPHER we have been bashing the USA because basically this thread started out well not to kindly towards Canadians if you know what I mean. Secondly that show actually makes fun of all politics and polititions....Chretian (our prime minister) goes on it all the time cause he dies not sseem to mind being made fun of . I bet it is good publisity but what do I know I am not allowed to vote yet......BLEH

[Gandalf White]

I don't know why I let myself get dragged into this garbage! :(
I wish I could say that this was the most ignorant amongst you who believes this and that it is the minority, but my experience shows otherwise. Sad, sad, sad. Theoretically, the only way you could say this is if you had met more than half the population of American, approximately 250 million, and if you said you did, you'd be lying, so your statement holds no water. And BTW, the only one you were right about was 9) No clue as to who our Prime Minister is (I guess when some don't even know who their own vice president is, that is understandable though not acceptable) . However, I do know our vice president!

[ms Greenleaf]

Good Gandalf Good. i hope you knoww that the average Canadian knows of Powell, Bush, Blair, and most of the states in the USa plus all the presidents that have been throughout thier lifetime. I have decided that since the average american is ignorant of most things about Canada (sorry my Grammer is atrrocious and my spelling is worse) I have decided not to learn of them... I know many presidents but I know no capitals of states and very little of their history.

[Parrot]

Originally posted by Thorin
Had there not been MANY examples of these shows, showing examples from MANY people from ALL over America (heck, even Jay Leno shows the ignorance of many on his show!), nor had I not encountered it in the 23 states I've visited in the numerous times I've vacationed and visited them, your point might be valid.


Okay, I'm probably fighting a losing battle here, as most Americans are pretty ignorant about Canada. I am just not sure why Canadians are so bothered or why they take such obvious joy in pointing this out time and again. I might argue that it says as much about the collective Canadian self-image and/or international presence as it does about American ignorance, but it's probably not worth the effort. As some wise-man once said (as an ignorant American I can't be expected to remember who);
"Americans are benevolently uninformed about Canada, while Canadians are malevolently well-informed about America.
True Dat.

[ms Greenleaf]

Not me I know not and care not and therefore am ignorant.

[Thorin]

Originally posted by Parrot
I am just not sure why Canadians are so bothered or why they take such obvious joy in pointing this out time and again. I might argue that it says as much about the collective Canadian self-image and/or international presence as it does about American ignorance, but it's probably not worth the effort.

I guess the reason being, Parrot is that it is very frustrating that when the only neighbor or "foreign" country most Canadians will be be visiting for their entire lives couldn't care less about them to even know where most of Canada's provinces (which are bigger than about 3-4 states put together) are on a map, when most Canadians could tell you off the top of their head where New Mexico or South Carolina is, never mind California, Texas and Florida. You will not hear anyone who does not know who George Bush or **** Cheney is, but "Jean Chretien? Who's that? OH! The King of Canada, right?"

It is bothersome to go to the States and say you're from Canada to have Americans say things like, "Oh, I'm sorry", or "So you live in the US's attic." Or "How's it going, eh?" and "Jeez it must be cold up there!" It is even more bothersome to hear those comments from ignorant, uninformed people who've practically never been out of their own state, never mind country.

It is this coupled with the American ego-mania hidden in the guise of patriotism that fuels such disdain for that ignorance. For crying out loud, we're not talking about the gross national product of Armenia here. We're talking about simple geography of your closest and most culturally similar neighbor here. Are Americans that self centered that they can't even understand that Canada and the US are almost exactly similar in temperature, geography, culture and people

[Gandalf White]

Good Gandalf Good. i hope you knoww that the average Canadian knows of Powell, Bush, Blair, and most of the states in the USa plus all the presidents that have been throughout thier lifetime. I have decided that since the average american is ignorant of most things about Canada Yeah, I think I'll have to study up a bit on Canada, although I believe I can name the provinces offhand.

[Parrot]

Originally posted by Thorin
Are Americans that self centered that they can't even understand that Canada and the US are almost exactly similar in temperature, geography, culture and people
Actually I think most Americans understand this very well, hilarious TV soundbites from the handpicked unsuspecting notwithstanding.

[Ciryaher]

anywaY cYPHER we have been bashing the USA because basically this thread started out well not to kindly towards Canadians if you know what I mean.

First, my name is Ciryaher, which only resembles the word "cypher" because it begins with a C and ends with an R.

Second, this thread was NOT started by an American. If you would take the effort to inform yourself, you'd know that Gloer is European.

Third, I can name off the provinces of Canada about the same as I can name of the federal states of Germany, and only slightly less easily than I can name off the American states. I am learning more about the Canadian government, but seeing as so little is taught to Americans about Canada (unless you go out of your way to learn, such as people like me) it's not the people's fault that they don't know (not entirely, anyways). How many Americans know that Canadians landed on the beaches of Normandy (namely Juno)?

This isn't hard to believe, but some Americans think that I moved to Mexico, seeing as there is this large square of Mexico sitting between Arizona and Texas :rolleyes:

[ms Greenleaf]

I thiink your name should be Cypher sorry about the spelling. There are many things I do not know about the USA mainly because I choose not to know them. This is better than not knowing because you were never taught just my two cents

[Ciryaher]

Well in my opinion, to be inadvertently ignorant is not half as bad as being deliberately ignorant. To want ignorance, and then accuse others of being ignorant is a little hypocritical.

I am neither a code, nor a nobody, and so your calling me "Cypher" (which is spelled cipher) is incorrect. Please return to the argument when you have a point to make, as well as the evidence to make it with, rather than bigoted country-bashing.

[Dain Ironfoot]

ok, people,

Yes most of america is ignorant of Canada, but that is because:

1: As Cir said:"but seeing as so little is taught to Americans about Canada (unless you go out of your way to learn, such as people like me) it's not the people's fault that they don't know (not entirely, anyways)."

2: I am aware that most American dont know simple facts abut Canada, such as the fact that some of the Canadian Providences speak french. ( SIMPLE FACT PEOPLE)

3: The reason that Canadians know so much about America is becuase America is the Axis of Power in the world. We may have a president that people make jokes at frequently, but he is also one of the most powerful men in the world.

[ms Greenleaf]

Does that mean that in 50 years when China is the axis of power we will have to know the long names of their government...Icarumba....

Another fact they teach everyone in Canada to speak French... or they try to anyway.

[Thorin]

Originally posted by Dain Ironfoot
3: The reason that Canadians know so much about America is becuase America is the Axis of Power in the world. We may have a president that people make jokes at frequently, but he is also one of the most powerful men in the world.

Hmm. I've never taught or been taught in school, "Okay, kids, because America is the axis of power, we should be learning about them. So, what should we know about America?"

First of all, we start by logically assuming (and after years of cohabitating next to each other, this should automatically be ingrained in our thinking) that we are pretty much the same. No sleds vs cars, igloos vs houses, whale blubber vs the cheese burger. Something American citizens overall, either refuse to do, or are too lazy to try and learn without some beligerent Canadian sick of the ignorance to point it out to him.

Second, we look at the media as our source of information. Apparently, Americans don't watch anything concerning Canada. No news, sports, sitcoms or documentaries featuring Canada. How is that possible? Beats me.

I'm sorry. With ALL that is out there and with years of media and travel, there is NO excuse for the gross ignorance of Americans concerning Canada.

[Parrot]

Originally posted by Thorin
Hmm. I've never taught or been taught in school, "Okay, kids, because America is the axis of power, we should be learning about them. So, what should we know about America?"

First of all, we start by logically assuming (and after years of cohabitating next to each other, this should automatically be ingrained in our thinking) that we are pretty much the same. No sleds vs cars, igloos vs houses, whale blubber vs the cheese burger. Something American citizens overall, either refuse to do, or are too lazy to try and learn without some beligerent Canadian sick of the ignorance to point it out to him.

Second, we look at the media as our source of information. Apparently, Americans don't watch anything concerning Canada. No news, sports, sitcoms or documentaries featuring Canada. How is that possible? Beats me.

I'm sorry. With ALL that is out there and with years of media and travel, there is NO excuse for the gross ignorance of Americans concerning Canada.

I say again Thorin, I think that most Americans do understand or assume that our countries are very much alike, and, despite your extensive visits, I think I have spoken to more Americans than you. The fact that most Americans can probably not name your capital does not lend veracity to your contention that we all labor under these gross misconceptions (i.e. "two months of darknes", "live in igloos"). Actually I think part of the problem here is that many Americans assume that we are so much the same that there is not much to learn beyond specifics like geography.

You can believe what you will, I don't really care and I'm done with this thread; but please don't presume to speak for "most Americans" and spread your own misconceptions to the membership eager for one more reason to be down on Americans, no matter how unfounded that reason might be.

[Ciryaher]

Thorin, if I were to rely on the media sources that are put on TV, here in the Southwestern US, I would know more about Mexico and Britain than Canada, by far. Over the course of my life, living in Indiana and here in New Mexico, I have seen only a handful of shows originating from Canada, while on the other hand, I can watch entire channels devoted to England and Mexico.

People are ignorant the world 'round. I was viewing a web page that had a list of stupid things people said about other countries, and there were just as many Americans with misconceptions about Canada as there were Austrailians with misconceptions about New Zealand. Ignorance is not just an American phenomenon.

[ms Greenleaf]

Just a question but does any non-canadian know about the war 1812??? just a question/

[Thorin]

Originally posted by Ciryaher
Thorin, if I were to rely on the media sources that are put on TV, here in the Southwestern US, I would know more about Mexico and Britain than Canada, by far. Over the course of my life, living in Indiana and here in New Mexico, I have seen only a handful of shows originating from Canada, while on the other hand, I can watch entire channels devoted to England and Mexico.

All the more clout to my argument that the US couldn't care less about Canada.

Originally posted by Ciryaher

People are ignorant the world 'round. I was viewing a web page that had a list of stupid things people said about other countries, and there were just as many Americans with misconceptions about Canada as there were Austrailians with misconceptions about New Zealand. Ignorance is not just an American phenomenon.

But ignorant people the world around have no bearing on Canada/US relationships. I'm sure the New Zealanders are gnashing their teeth and shaking their heads at the audacity and ignorance of Australia as well. I guess Canadians can sympathize with them. :)

[Gandalf White]

Just a question but does any non-canadian know about the war 1812??? just a question/ Umm.... yeah, that's when the Capital Building and White House were set on fire! :rolleyes: I'm pretty sure the War of 1812 is known to be a war.

[Parrot]

I know I said I was done with this thread but a guy posted this on another board I frequent earlier today and it cracked me up;Originally posted by GobbleDog:
Personally, I've always liked the Candians. They're just like us, except the drink more beer and have no international responsibilities.
See Thorin, some of us get it. ;)

[ms Greenleaf]

Hey we only drink more beer because Canadian vbeer actually tastes like something:p