The die is cast

[Maedhros]

The time is now. The Guild of Scholars challenges you to a debate of Tolkien lore.
Because we challenge you, you have the choice of the side of the debate. Would a team of 4 be ok with you.

[Lhunithiliel]

I'm in!
What a "surprise", isn't it! :D

The topic????????

[gate7ole]

Wonderful!

A team of 4 is ok.

To all Guild Members who want to participate, post here or PM me.
Lhun is the first.

And it would be good if the topic was not announced yet.

[Anamatar IV]

Yes, I will wait until I know the topic to decide....but don't keep a post open for me if too many people wanna join.:)

[Mithlond]

I wouldnt mind being in the debate.
But perhaps the more active members of our guild should get first choice before me..

Will the topic be posted after the team is chosen? hmmm.

[Maedhros]

Will the topic be posted after the team is chosen? hmmm.
I will ask a member of OiE to choose the topic.

[Mrs. Maggott]

If there is room, I would consider it an honor to participate in the debate, even as a substitute should a more worthy member be unable to take his or her place therein.

[FoolOfATook]

It seems to me that it would be most appropriate to wait until we know the subject before we officially announce a team. This way, we could ensure the best possible combination of skills, knowledge and experience. For example, if the subject is within my particular area of Tolkien study, which focus more on the man himself, and his influences, style and themes than they do on more "story-internal" subjects, than I feel that I could be a valuable asset for the Guild. However, if the subject is, as I expect it will be, completely within Middle-earth, than I would not hinder the Guild with the relatively weak assets that I could provide. If it would be within the established rules and protocol, it is my counsel that we only announce a team captain (I'd suggest either Grond or Gate7ole), and wait until after the subject is posted before we reveal the composition of our team.

[gate7ole]

Or, it would be better if the team comprised all “kinds” of debaters, so that all topics could be handled efficiently. This may be more suitable since traditionally the topic is announced last, when the teams have been created.
But the amount of knowledge is not the major criterion of the creation of the team. I find most important the eagerness to search for information in the books and participate actively independently of whether s/he is an Expert or an Apprentice.

[Maedhros]

It seems to me that it would be most appropriate to wait until we know the subject before we officially announce a team. This way, we could ensure the best possible combination of skills, knowledge and experience.
What is this? The purpose of the debate is to discuss about Tolkien. What happened to the love that we feel towards the books? What happened to passion?
If it would be within the established rules and protocol, it is my counsel that we only announce a team captain (I'd suggest either Grond or Gate7ole), and wait until after the subject is posted before we reveal the composition of our team.
The topic will be posted in the Guild of Scholars, after the composition of the teams is announced.
But the amount of knowledge is not the major criterion of the creation of the team. I find most important the eagerness to search for information in the books and participate actively independently of whether s/he is an Expert or an Apprentice.
At least my time in this guild was not wasted. This is what a debate is about.

[Mrs. Maggott]

Originally posted by Maedhros
What is this? The purpose of the debate is to discuss about Tolkien. What happened to the love that we feel towards the books? What happened to passion?

The topic will be posted in the Guild of Scholars, after the composition of the teams is announced.

At least my time in this guild was not wasted. This is what a debate is about.
I hope you don't mind my passion being somewhat diluted by a month-long bout with something that doesn't allow me to sleep for more than 15 minutes at a time (and then only when sitting up), or with a throat that feels as if I am gargling with broken glass, or a headache that I am putting down on my income tax as a dependent, or with both my ears clogged to the point that when I speak I feel as if my head's in a can.... If you don't mind a somewhat diminished "passion" owing to the foregoing, I will gladly wade into the foray. At least my posts are not "catching" - but then, my mental processes might not be very "fetching" either!:p

[FoolOfATook]

I fail to see how my suggestions go against the most noble ideas that you bring up, Maedhros. Perhaps my thinking seemed to Machiavellian to you. However, I'll explain my way of thinking, to a certain degree. In a private conversation a few weeks ago, Grond brought up the possibility of such a debate, and asked if I would participate. However, I do know that I am considerably less interested, and less experienced and knowledgable, than many other members of the Guild when it comes to discussions of "story-internal" questions, but when it comes to debating "story-external" issues- questions of a more literary bent, such as sources that Tolkien drew from, questions of themes or structure of his works, and so forth, I consider myself to be as good as just about anyone here. Was it perhaps arrogant to make suggestions for the sole benefit of determining my own involvement? Sure- in retrospect that is quite clear to me. Do I still take a certain degree of offense at your implications regarding my passion for Tolkien? Most assuredly. Perhaps you and I have different ideas about the purpose of debate. So be it. That doesn't change the fact that my ideas were put forth with essentially noble intentions (intentions, mind you). I have no idea about whether or not your time in the Guild was wasted, and frankly I could care less. I do know that I'm quickly learning to be glad that your time in the Guild is past.

[Maedhros]

Sure- in retrospect that is quite clear to me. Do I still take a certain degree of offense at your implications regarding my passion for Tolkien? Most assuredly. Perhaps you and I have different ideas about the purpose of debate. So be it. That doesn't change the fact that my ideas were put forth with essentially noble intentions (intentions, mind you). I have no idea about whether or not your time in the Guild was wasted, and frankly I could care less. I do know that I'm quickly learning to be glad that your time in the Guild is past.
Sheeeeeeeeeeeeesh, that's too bad then.:(
We definitely have different views of debates. I do not hide, simple. As for my time in the guild, I wonder what Grond would think.

[Mrs. Maggott]

Gentlemen, please! Two such great Tolkienologists may disagree, but surely always with courtesy and respect. Perhaps it is the lateness of the hour or one or both of you might be stricken by the same galloping crud that I am resisting (unsuccessfully, alas!). But everyone in the Guild would be most disturbed to see the both of you any way but at your obviously excellent best!

I pray therefore, that you both sleep on your exchange and post again when rest and a new day bring happier and more charitable thoughts! As for FOAT, he certainly could debate me on the veriest parts of the stories themselves and win without breaking a sweat but his humility is a pleasing virtue.

And for our "dark Elf", his loss to the Guild is considerable and I am sure that all welcome his appearance whenever he can spare us the time.

So, please, I must ask for all of our sakes that we end this evening in peace and charity, always hoping for a brighter day tomorrow (and a good night's sleep tonight, please God!)

God bless

[Nóm]

I'd just like to say that Maedhros' words are not indicative of the thoughts or opinions of the entire Guild of Scholars.


PS: Mrs. Maggott, Maedhros is not a dark elf, and it is good to run into you outside of those darn Jackson threads! :D

[Mrs. Maggott]

Originally posted by Nóm
I'd just like to say that Maedhros' inconciderate words are not indicative of the thoughts or opinions of the entire Guild of Scholars.


PS: Mrs. Maggott, Maedhros is not a dark elf, and it is good to run into you outside of those darn Jackson threads! :D

Listen, the way I feel now, it was guess at dark elf or try to spell Maedhros without looking it up! I do know there was a dark elf around somewhere (if this dratted whatever doesn't go away soon, I'm going to do something very, very bad....)

Anyway, I am trying to give up the film threads at least until the last film when I can make one overall judgment and then give it up cold turkey. I helped myself today by finding - and using - the "ignore" button on one of the more annoying persons therein. I would prefer to spend my time on the works themselves. I'm afraid Mr. Jackson's defenders are starting to annoy me more than Mr. Jackson!

[Maedhros]

After using the advice of Mrs Maggot, I have to apologize for the way my post sounded to Foat. It seems very inconsiderate. I made a mistake and I'm sorry for it.

[gate7ole]

So, the debate has already started! But let’s keep our energy for the “real” debate.

About the Tolkienologists that will be included in our Team, I think that it is fairer that those who don’t participate in the on-going debate of the guild will have priority.
So, Lhunithiliel and Mithlond will be the first two of the Team.

[FoolOfATook]

There is no question that my actions were guided more by anger than compassion or reason. This was innappropriate on my part. I appologize to Maedhros.

[Maedhros]

It is my who has to give the apology to FOAT. My words were inconsiderate to him.

[Mrs. Maggott]

The Psalmist says that it is sweet when brothers meet in unity. I think we have a fine example of two brothers who have so met and we are all the better for it.

God bless you both and prosper all of your handiwork.

[Anamatar IV]

hmmm I am in the current debate but have yet to post as I am not too comfortable with the topic....

If I can, I would like to be in this debate (seeing now that the debate announced after the teams are decided) and hope that this will be a topic I can feel comfortable debating about.:)

[Lhunithiliel]

BLESS YOU Mrs.Maggott !!!!!! :)

I was so troubled to see the boys quarelling!
Thanks to you they have settled the misunderstanding just as true gentlemen!
I congratulate you Gentlemen, too! :)

[Lhunithiliel]

IMPORTANT & URGENT

Concerning the debate with the Schollars' Guild, here is their team:
From Scholars we have:
Inderjit S
Elfarmari
Nóm
ithrynluin/Nenya Evenstar

So, WHEN are we to form OUR team ?

[Beleg]

If there is place left I would also like to participate considering that I am in none of the debates in the Guild and the future of the debates at TD seems dark:rolleyes:

But if any other senior and offcourse learned member would like to participate then i have no objection to it as it would be in the benifit of the Guild. So if there is a spare place in the debate i'd also like to apply.

[gate7ole]

The team of the Tolkienologists that will participate in the debate against the Scholars is:

Anamatar IV
FoolOfATook
Lhunithiliel
Mithlond

Good luck to our team.

[Maedhros]

I have posted the team, but it is not the same as the one that Lhun posted.
Turgon has informed me that he will post the Topic later.

[Ithrynluin]

Our team is:

Maedhros
Inderjit S.
Nóm
Elfarmari

Good luck and have fun debating!

[Lhunithiliel]

I think that we should chose that Fingolfin sought for the suicidal combat with Morgoth ON PURPOSE!!!

What do the other members of our team think of that?

I also would VERY MUCH ask the members of the team to PM each other exchanging each one's future strategies.

I will soon PM everyone with my opinion on the matter.
********

P.S. I would also like to add that in activities like this one I do NOT work under the captainship of ANYbody!
This is a team and EVERY ONE is with EQUAL rights.
The most important thing is COOPERATION!!!!!!

So, I'd advise everyone to ASAP post here or through PM-s express their opinions concerning the team's choice and let's start the debate ORGANIZED!

[Lhunithiliel]

I would strongly advise and ASK Mithlond and FoT take part in the on-going debate with the Schollars.

Not that me and Anamatar do not cope with it all right! ;)

But against the knowledge of Maedhros we NEED someone, who has read the same sources as he and help also with some fresh opinions!

Mithlond and FoT, you bothe claim to be Experts Tolkienologists! Prove it!

Now, FoT, I know that it must be hard for you..... (we know why ;) ) but we NEED you!!!!!!