Is Mankind kind fading right now?

[Celebthôl]

Is mankind fading right now?

simple question...

my theory, we have started killing each other more than ever in the last century, more poeple have died in wars in the last 100 years than in any other we are still killing each other to this day, we are going backwards in time, (not literaly) but we have resorted to killing people becoming more primal in our behaviour, i mean i have lived in my house for nearly 7 years now and when i first moved in it was a fairly pleasant neighourhood, now there wont go passed one night without at least 1 police-car going passed with sirens blaring!
I rememer the days when children could be outside after dark and not worry about gangs beating them up, but now everywhere you go there is a a gang on a street corner and there are constant police cars everywhere...

so are we fading as Tolkiens Elves would have? are we going to become more primal? comments please

(if this is in the wrong place please move it to the correct place)!

[Emowyn]

No I agree with you, Mankind is, well, fadeing as you put it.
It seems very much so that we are going backwards in time, hypathecticly speaking of course. However is we advance anymore in technology, I wouldn't be suprised if it ended in us riding around on horseback again. Ever seen the matrix? It's a good theory.
Anyway back to the first point, I really think that the human race is more interested with killing each other out, very priative.

[Nóm]

In my opinin (to the best of by ability to measure, at this point) a lot of people are not open to having sympathy and understanding, and find it easier to hate than to understand.

Another is that humans are by nature curious to discover and create, so technology is always ahead of what human nature or society on the whole is capable of handling.

I think a lot of people have just lost touch with the Earth and themselves, and with eachother - with true life. People get wrapped up in the day to day boring things of life, and get stressed out over things.

I think we are by nature not yet suited to live in the world we have built around us.


I suppose one might, if putting this in the light of Tolkien's writings, conclude that the evil of Morgoth is at work in the human race. It taking shape in our race, rather than in a Dark Lord.

This does not make us evil, but we are, as Arda, marred.

[Celebthôl]

That is precisily (sp) what i was thinking and had in mind Nóm, thank you for putting it so simply :)

[Nóm]

Not a theory so much as an observation.

You may like to take a look at this thread. (http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=9142)

There is also more to be said about what I posted, you guys can expand upon it, if you'd like.

What is it in human nature that causes us to fight against eachother?
Pride would be one thing, what are some others?

...and do these things exist because men were marred by the evil of... well I want to say Morgoth, but if you are religious you may want to view of this another way.

Also, what may come of us in the nearer future, and what end will we come to eventually?

[Kellivara]

k, it wouldn't be a theory because a theory is something that is not certain. It is a type of guess. An observation, on the other hand, is something that is seen, that is certain.

also, in my opinion, no, we are NOT becoming more primative. We are becoming STUPID. When humans were still a more primative race, they were more honorable men, and traditions and heritage were honored. People understood more about the world around them. Aye, but we are also becoming rather blind....

[Celebthôl]

(can a mod change the title to, "Is Mankind fading right now?" thanks)

that is also a good theory, even with all the cameras and news etc, we still turn a blind eye to places of poverty like Etheopia (sp)...

[Jon]

the world has always been bad. it hasnt suddenly `turned bad`.
people tend to look at the past and remember people were better then than now. this may well be true, but this doesn`t mean thatif you go back further and further it gets better and better does it? obviously not. people have always been killing each other, with wars etc, its just we`ve got more technology now so more people are killed in wars nowadays.

it goes in waves.

in many ways man has improved from man of the past. in almost every way. i mean, jst as an example in the `old west` people used to kill each other over anyhting and this was considered normal everyone had a gun.

im not saying go back ten years and it was the same. it was better. but go back 500 years and it was worse in nearly evey way

[Celebithil]

We are becoming STUPID.

I tend to agree with this people get dumber and dumber, at least all those people who aren'tme:D

[Jesse]

Yes, Mankind is fading. We have been fading since the death of Christ. Look at all the wars fought in the name of Christianity. It's rediculous! Millions died for nothing. Yes, mankind is fading into nothingness. That's why I want to move to Fiji where I'll be isolated and away from Mankind (except the capital city of Savu, but that's far away from civilization as it is).

[Elfhelm25]

I think that humans have these unfixable flaw built in them...no matter how much we "advance", we still continue to follow the same patterns... we judge each other almost by instinct, put people into ranks, kill, rape, torture, abuse each other .... there is always, always a war going on somewhere, someone who doesnt have rights or freedom or food ...it was the same from the beginning, and it hasnt changed in the least.
I think maybe theres a reason humans are born with this "glitch"...maybe its beyond what I can understand ...
I dont think mankind is fading out , I think they will eventually lead to total destruction and have to start over form the beginning again and keep going on wit this cycle until our "era" is over..

[elfgirl]

"Chlorine has been added into the gene pool, and people are drowning!We need a lifegaurd!"-Unknown
Words of wisdom. Hey, look on the dim side! In about twenty years' time, none of this will matter because the earth will be overpopulated and people will be fighting wars over crops.
If that doesn't happen, we will probably kill each other off in about 60 years' time anyway...
You see, to have world peace, we would all have to be drones... so don't say, 'I am for world peace', say 'I am anti-war' because no war is going to happen when our weapons advance so much that we cant wage a war without blowing everybody into radioactive dust. Yet World Peace means no arguements, means no opinions, means changing the very nature of human beings, meaning that we would all be like comic strips, being written and sold for somebody else's laughter. Elfhelm25, that unfixable law is human nature.
Then, there is the question: "What will we do when we can't wage a war?" One book theorizes that we will turn to sports, yet I think that trade will slow when nations are arguing. Countries will withhold materials. Iraq might stop sending oil, Brazil might stop sending coffee(:eek:), etc. That means that we will have to be able to survive without trade. Which brings us back to overpopulation. Whoever said "You cant feed a city with only rice and water" was right. I hope that it will get to the point where all of the leaders wake up and smell the death.
War is childish. War starts when one group of people thinks that another group of people are loonies. Then that one group of people convinces other groups of people, and they ban together to distroy the loonies. When that war is over, allies might go to war for the same reason. War, to put it kindly, is childish. It is rather wierd that the only time we see real peace is in war. For example: Two groups have been fighting for years. Then a third group comesalong and says, "Look, tht group over there- they're loonies. They are completely insane! I am trying to get other groups to help me take them down." So the two groups that have been fighting agree, and suddenly become allies. That has, ironically, happened quite a few times in History.
Then, there are traitors in war. HIROSHIMA, SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED. The Japanese representative was never told about Pearl Harbor, just so that he would not tell us. We were so infuriated about Pearl Harbor, we sent a nuclear bomb there way. Also, we should have never been involved in WWII. In order to get us to come into WWII, the British made a fake map of how the Germans were going to come in through Mexico, and invade the US. Then, the president went on live TV, and tdeclared that the US was going to war. The Germans saw this, and were probably thinking 'What the- we didn't do that! That's wrong!' If war was fought WITHOUT traitors, and without alot of lying, then maybe the wars would be quicker and cleaner. SOMEBODY GO TEACH THESE GUYS MORALS!!!!!

[Feanorian]

You see, to have world peace, we would all have to be drones... so don't say, 'I am for world peace', say 'I am anti-war' because no war is going to happen when our weapons advance so much that we cant wage a war without blowing everybody into radioactive dust. Yet World Peace means no arguements, means no opinions, means changing the very nature of human beings, meaning that we would all be like comic strips, being written and sold for somebody else's laughter. Elfhelm25, that unfixable law is human nature.
Then, there is the question: "What will we do when we can't wage a war?" One book theorizes that we will turn to sports, yet I think that trade will slow when nations are arguing. Countries will withhold materials. Iraq might stop sending oil, Brazil might stop sending coffee(:eek:), etc. That means that we will have to be able to survive without trade. Which brings us back to overpopulation. Whoever said "You cant feed a city with only rice and water" was right. I hope that it will get to the point where all of the leaders wake up and smell the death.


War is chilish? No, war is not chidish, it is very serious and real death is not something that you can ever call Childish, this is not a war of egos. America is not attacking Iraq for no reason, there are truly loonies as you put it in the world that need to be stopped. War is a last result, when a man who has the history of testing his weapons on his own people and killing thousands of the people in the country, to some thats war worthy. Iraq has been give 12 years to dis arm and they havent, what stops Saddam from supplying international terrorists with weapons of mass destruction that can be used on the US, Britian, Isreal, etc. War IS NEVER fought for no reason. And War is never the first choice.


War is childish. War starts when one group of people thinks that another group of people are loonies. Then that one group of people convinces other groups of people, and they ban together to distroy the loonies. When that war is over, allies might go to war for the same reason. War, to put it kindly, is childish. It is rather wierd that the only time we see real peace is in war. For example: Two groups have been fighting for years. Then a third group comesalong and says, "Look, tht group over there- they're loonies. They are completely insane! I am trying to get other groups to help me take them down." So the two groups that have been fighting agree, and suddenly become allies. .

The fact that it did happen cannot be reversed. People complain about the Nuclear bombs and although there were other methods, there would have been just as many if not more deaths among soldiers and civilians....the estimated death toll for a land invasion of Japan was 1,000,000 instead of a couple hundred thousand.

Then, there are traitors in war. HIROSHIMA, SHOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED. The Japanese representative was never told about Pearl Harbor, just so that he would not tell us. We were so infuriated about Pearl Harbor, we sent a nuclear bomb there way.

Why should the U.S. have stayed out of WW2, would you prefer a world where races are killed off because they are not fit to a madmans standards. Europe needed America, in no way can you say we should not have been involved, if anything we should have been involved sooner. Hitler killed what was it 9 million jews? Thats one reason why we all love The Lord of The Rings, the bad guy is always defeated and challenged. No one knows what would have happened had we not gone to war. Clearly Germany had thoughts or at least back up plans of attacking the U.S. we all got that point throught the Zimmerman note, which was the main reason we went to war that and the sinking of American vessels.

Also, we should have never been involved in WWII. In order to get us to come into WWII, the British made a fake map of how the Germans were going to come in through Mexico, and invade the US. Then, the president went on live TV, and tdeclared that the US was going to war. The Germans saw this, and were probably thinking 'What the- we didn't do that! That's wrong!' If war was fought WITHOUT traitors, and without alot of lying, then maybe the wars would be quicker and cleaner. SOMEBODY GO TEACH THESE GUYS MORALS!!!!! [/B][/QUOTE]

Now look i am not trying to bring down your points and the fact that i am just 14 not that much older then you and have little effect in politics and war makes my opinion just the same as yours.

[Feanorian]

And back to the main point of this thread. Its true mankind is fading, Man is becoming less and less dependant on itself and more and more dependant on what is popular and what is said by society. Now, I for one love technology, however sometimes we dont realize that we let technology make decisions for us. Alot of people especially yougner people are all carbon copies of eachother, and there are different groups of these drones. Punks, thugs, etc kids say they make the decision to be there own person but really they are letting their friends, and what is cool decide for them. In my area things are very "soft" I guess you could say I dont live in a place where you need to survive, but some kids try to make it that way and its sad because people get hurt, injured, and even killed for no reason. The bottom line is that: Humans lose respect for other humans and for them selves as the years go by. In my humble opinion.

[elfgirl]

You are absolutely right about mankind fading. As for the opinions on war, everyone has their own opinion, and I have a very unique perspective, which is what sets me apart from the cliques* and the groups.

*clique(s)- pronounced 'click' or 'c-leash'- a group or 'gang' that all have a same personality triat or hate the same people; usu. seen in schools walking in little groups down the hall, and talking, snickering, or giggling.

[Feanorian]

Everyone is entilted to their own opinion, but i would probably not call yours unique, the thousands of people who have protested and been arrested share the same beliefs. I am just saying the only reason we are killing their soliders is so that they won't kill our people...


You are absolutely right about mankind fading. As for the opinions on war, everyone has their own opinion, and I have a very unique perspective, which is what sets me apart from the cliques* and the groups.

[elfgirl]

For your information, I don't 'protest' and I have never gotten arrested. Yet I do believe that online we are all entitled to our own perspective of life, and i don't mean to be rude but, don't make assumptions about anybody here.

[legolasismine]

Even though I don't like to believe it,its true these are definetly the end days and any moment now,any moment at all life as we know it will be over,I mean just look at the facts the world is collapsing as we speak,with war and how crime is I wouldn't be surprised if the world was over by tonight,but these are just my beliefs,and sometimes I scare my friends when I talk about the world being over,but those are the facts and we all need to get used to it!

[elfgirl]

You speak the sad, sad truth.

[Feanorian]

You dont have to be arrested or protest in the streets to hold the same opinions of the people who did, yes you are entitled to our own opinions as am I, so I am not making any assumptions about you simply replying to the things that you have stated. So dont assume I am making assumptions. And to reply to your last post agreeing to the fact that we are now in the End Times, none of us have that knowledge things could get ALOT worse then they are right now, this is nothing compared to WW1, WW2, or Vietnam. O and please do not get mad at me for replying this way cause as you say I am entilted to my own ideas and opinion.

For your information, I don't 'protest' and I have never gotten arrested. Yet I do believe that online we are all entitled to our own perspective of life, and i don't mean to be rude but, don't make assumptions about anybody here. [/B][/QUOTE]

[jallan]

Things are fading?

Certainly it is possible in a way that it was not possible one hundred years ago or before for mankind to put an end to mankind, perhaps all life.

It is also possible for any two people in the world who share a language to communication ideas through the internet, and increasingly the wealth of all available knowledge for all cultures is becoming available on the internet, to anyone who uses it.

Lies spread more easily, but it is also easier to debunk them.

As Charles Dickents wrote in A Tale of Two Cities:IT WAS the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way – in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

[The_Swordmaster]

Here is a quote I heard by Albert Einstien that i think involves somewhat that we are talking about here.

Qoute by Albert Einstien
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

This quote for some reason scares me a little because it is the truth. I find this as a warning more than anything else.

[de_uda]

With the world fast becoming a more and more individual place, peolpe are looking out for themselves. Human nature also drives, our desires. Wanting to be the best, the most powerful. For example, look at sport, what was once an entertainment for children has now become one of the most competitive environments, and also one of the best ways to gain power and money. The two drivers behind human desire (power and money), the wants and greed to always have the most money, the most power, the most recognition.
Thats my opinion.

[elfgirl]

In human nature, there is nothing about "money". Also, define money. A couple thousand years back, people used ROCKS as money. I think you mean power and goods (trading goods, food goods, etc.).

[Feanorian]

In human nature, there is nothing about "money". Also, define money. A couple thousand years back, people used ROCKS as money. I think you mean power and goods (trading goods, food goods, etc.).

Well what do you think gold is? Its a rock, money is power and came in many forms thousands of years ago. The people with the money are in control and thats how it has always and probably will always be. Money is in a way in human nature, because money is greed, you can never get enough of it, and all humans are greedy to a degree.

[elfgirl]

I agree that all humans are greedy. Yet way back, people didn't have gold. They traded food for food, or clothing for clothing. It is the people with the items that are in control.

[Feanorian]

It is the people with the items that are in control.

Items were money then, there have always been rich and poor and there always will be.

[de_uda]

By money, i mean possessions. For example in the stone age, meat would've had the value. By money i meant the greed to have the most or the best of the best.

[Lúthien Séregon]

I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

That's a frightening quote...all the more frightening because it is true.
I believe that humankind is heading towards its end...there must be a conclusion to everything. I dearly hope that there will never be a nuclear war, if there is, it would wipe out everything in its vicinity.
Even without the threat of war, the world population is now over 6.5 billion, assuming that the rate of growth will remain the same the world population could possible be at 15,900,800,000 people at the end of this century. How is it possible to maintain Earth AND a population this huge?

[Feanorian]

It is true that man kind is in the gutter, however my religious beliefs teaches me that only God knows when the world will be ended and it will be by his hand, and not those of men, so I do not fear Nuclear War. I think Earth could house all those people, there are many uninhabited places that would just need to be cleared and developed, I do not think food is an issue.

[jallan]

Feanorean posted: I think Earth could house all those people, there are many uninhabited places that would just need to be cleared and developed, I do not think food is an issue.Where are these places Feanorean?

The starving people of the world can’t find them.

The amount of desert in the world increases every year, in part because of destruction of trees and overuse of land for agricultural use and for pasture.

[Feanorian]

Look around the world for uninhabitited places. It would be harder to live because we already live in the best areas and thus the choices get worse and worse, but hey we have to survie. Of course there there is more desert every year, the world is basicly a living organism and grows older as all planets do. I think the aging process is sped up because of all the living things taking from the earth and all of the polution.

[syongstar]

maybe this is why elves hide? should we not?elin silva luminin umonentilmo,where do e go from here?

[Zale]

If we are fading, who is to replace us as the Edain replaced the Eldar?

[jallan]

Feanorian posted:Look around the world for uninhabitited places. It would be harder to live because we already live in the best areas and thus the choices get worse and worse, but hey we have to survie.People don ’t have to survive. They can and do die, of starvation or disease.

Places of low habitation are such because they cannot support dense habitation by a community producing what it needs to survive. You can’t farm tundra or desert, for example.I think the aging process is sped up because of all the living things taking from the earth and all of the polution.But in the prosperous countries people are living longer on the average (presumably in part because of increased medical knowledge more than balancing the health problems caused by pollutionm for people who have access to better medical knowledge).

Where is there any evidence that aging of humans or animals has “speeded up” in historic times?

[Kellivara]

ah, but I think Feanorian meant the aging of the Earth itself, and not in the blessed way of trees growing older and wiser, but in the horrifying way of death and decay.....

[Feanorian]

Exactly, Kellivara. I am talking about pollution, global warming, etc and all that other good stuff:rolleyes:. Meaning the atmosphere is becoming weaker and weaker and harmful things are coming in and being produced even on Earth.