What was the reason behind this claim of Men? Surely, there is some reason (allthough in the Athrabeth Men do loathe to tell that to elves) what are your thoughts about this claim, and what do you think is the reason behind this claim. 2. Isn't this claim appose to the general opinion? Men's life span was shorter before they reached Beleriand? Do you believe this claim to be true? If yes, then why? 3. Why? Did the Atani learned most of their craft from the Dark Elves and the Nandor? or were they born with the knowledge of Middle-Earth? And if not then the development of a whole civilaztion is a long prcoess while the men achieved it in about three hundred years? Had the Vala or Eru already (if Vala had the power) enriched the brains of Men with the knowledge of Middle-Earth? 4. What might the answer be? Since the Answer of Ingold seems so logical? 5. Lets look at it. Men awoke in 1 A.O.S. (age of Sun) Baran lived from 262* to 355* A.O.S. He lived to the age of 93. Seeing that he died at a pretty old age, surely in his youth people would have been alive who were 80 to 90 years old, and who fathers and grandfathers would be the first generation of Men. Surely from them Beor would have learned the old traditions and they would have been kept alive. And Andreth is only three generations on from Beor and she was born only after 5 years of Beor's death. So with regard to that the lore and earlier knowledge should have been transferered to Andreath. Not a lot of time and generations have elasped since the first begining of men, speically if we consider Andreath's claim that save only legends of days when death came less swiftly and our span was still far longer And Andreath here is talking as if ages of Sun or trees have elasped when really not more then 8 or 7 seven generations of men would have passed since the first awakeing of men. I just am not clear about the point. I am not sure i have made the point very clear, since i myself am perplaxed in which way to put the interogative question, but i'd like you to explain whatever you know about this topic.