Aulë and the Creation of the Dwarves

Discussion in '"Morgoth's Ring"' started by Erestor Arcamen, Apr 1, 2019.

  1. Erestor Arcamen

    Erestor Arcamen Archivist Staff Member

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    From what I understand, Melkor aka Morgoth lost a lot of his power as it was dispersed into his creations. This is from Morgoth's Ring:

    So Aulë created the dwarves. Did he have to disperse some of his power in order to create them too? I know that Eru was aware of their creation and adopted them as his own but Aulë did the initial 'creating.'
     
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  2. Miguel

    Miguel Active Member

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    DwarfCraft. I think i read that they all loss power over time as ages passed and became more blended to the world?. They most likely spent a lot of power managing/shaping/crafting/giving birth (Yavanna) to everything. Before Eru gave them fae, the Dwarves would only move or speak when Aulë did. If he could do this, Melko most definitely could too, and i can imagine this happening a lot with the difference that nothing had seal of approval.
     
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  3. Inziladun

    Inziladun Member

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    Yea, Aulë's spirit was not diminished because he did not intend for his creations to contend with the Children of Ilúvatar, so it is fair that they were granted the Secret Fire. Melkor gave much of his own power to beings that already possessed a spirit - the Balrogs are corrupted Maiar, and the Orcs are corrupted Elves. And much of his power was given to his lieutenant Sauron. It was the love of Aulë that created the Dwarves, and the hatred of Melkor that dispersed himself through his creations.
     
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  4. Miguel

    Miguel Active Member

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    Yes but what i really want to point out is that besides the Belryg...etc etc, he could have been creating things that would exist as pure puppets and that would act as long as he makes them telepathically before they are either destroyed or forgotten about just like the Dwarves before they had souls. I tend to think about stuff that might be plausible but not mentioned in the books, it's kind of inevitable given their nature.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2019

  5. Erestor Arcamen

    Erestor Arcamen Archivist Staff Member

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    Thanks for the responses. Someone else on another forum also explained it to me. Since Morgoth created his own creatures that had their own free-will, he used his power/spirit to create them. Aule created beings but didn't pump his spirit into them, leaving them as just mindless semi-conscious things and Eru adopted them.
     
  6. Miguel

    Miguel Active Member

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    It's like an animator but without programming?. If he didn't thought about it, they would simply stay still unless he moved them with his thought again. Aulë was about to teach them Khuzdul before Eru showed up, he was like putting more and more into them.

    Also, take this into consideration:
    As mentioned there, Melko definitely loved smithcraft and build stuff.

    As for his creatures that have fae, besides attraction/corruption of other powerful beings everything else was the sub-creation of a new species from others that already existed independently, then breed. All creatures might not necessarily go through the exact same process to become what they are but who knows.
     
  7. Ithilethiel

    Ithilethiel Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree that Morgoth's "creations" had free will. I even hate saying he,"created" any beings. He poured his evil will into them and that kept them animated thereby causing the diminishment of his power. But only Eru can create life, something from nothing. Aulë, Yavanna and Manwë may have designed and inspired the creation of their respective races but none had free will until Eru created them i.e. bestowed each with fëa and made them a part of his divine plan.

    Not even the Professor could agree on the origin of Orcs. If you read the Silmarillion it's corrupted elves but his other writings draw that into question. So what is Canon? I tend to trust his letter and later writings. But each person must decide for him/herself.
     
  8. Inziladun

    Inziladun Member

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    Aulë did not perceive the free will of the Children as a thing apart from themselves, it was of the World without, and only granted by Eru. The spirit of Aulë was not diminished in this work, and it was his masterpiece. His father made him with the will to create, and so he did; Melkor was not made to corrupt, but his own free will corrupted his spirit.
     
  9. Miguel

    Miguel Active Member

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    There's this part where there's an assembly at Estolad and they're arguing if they should join the Noldor or not:

    Seems like Morgoth had a replica of Amlach there. Something similar happens far later when Sauron catches Gorlim. That practice was for the most part in line with the powers that the Fëanturi have which Morgoth also possessed. I wonder if this knowledge was given to Sauron by Morgoth during The Siege, since at the time of the Bragollach: "was become now a sorcerer of dreadful power, master of shadows and of phantoms", it's like suggesting that he upgraded during those 455 years.

    Edit: Sorry, 400 years since the Aglareb, 455 years since the coming of Fingolfin/Rising of the Sun.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
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