Did Gimli lie to Eomer?

Discussion in '"The Lord of the Rings"' started by Confusticated, Oct 3, 2002.

  1. Confusticated

    Confusticated Registered User

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    Later on at Helm's Deep Gimli speaks to Eomer...
    Was this a lie to prevent Gimli from having to talk about what happend back by the river? Was it just forgetfulness on his part? If so, would't Legolas have corrected him? Was this a simple mistake by Tolkien? Or was it something different?
     
  2. DGoeij

    DGoeij Pan Narran

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    I'd say it was a simple mistake. I haven't, until now, ever realised it was an incorrect statement by Gimli, simply because in the book, we are no witness of the actions of Legolas and Gimli at Amon Hen.
    But you're right, Gimli's statment is not the truth.
    Maybe he meant more something like, 'I haven't had a good figth ever since we left Moria, because merely hunting and slaying retreating orcs isn't very honourable'.
    I wonder if Tolkien himself ever noticed this mistake?
     

  3. Pale King

    Pale King Registered User

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    I expect that it is a simple mistake. Well spotted Confusticated.
     
  4. Lindir

    Lindir Registered User

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    I suppose it might be a mistake, but Legolas could have included Gimli in the statement even if the Dwarf didn't kill any of the Orcs in person. He was certainly part of the hunt in the woods and the 'we' could refer to the team of Legolas and Gimli. Legolas would probably have said 'I have hunted and slain...' only if he had been alone in the woods.
    I use 'we' like that all the time. I would for example say 'We found a Bronze Age sword' regardless of who actually found it, as long as it happened at my excavation.
     

  5. Confusticated

    Confusticated Registered User

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    Which do you think it was Lindir?
    I agree that Legolas would have said "we" even if Gimli did not slay any orcs, but I think it is unlikely that Gimli would not have. Other options seem unlikely too. I have no opinion about this, just some ideas. I am hoping that someone will add something new that may make up my mind or even prove something to all of us.
     
  6. Legolam

    Legolam Ad astra per aspera

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    Maybe Gimli was not using his axe to kill orcs on Amon Hen, and therefore it really had not "hewn naught but wood since Moria"

    Just a thought ...
     
  7. Confusticated

    Confusticated Registered User

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    I have considered that but I think it is not likely.

    Any other ideas?
     
  8. Anamatar IV

    Anamatar IV Anabadger

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    yeah and i dont think hew refers only to axe blows. Maybe gimli didnt kill any orcs on aman hen. I would imagine that first they spent a while chasing them, then legolas shot them down, maybe gimli engaged in combat with some but didnt kill so legolas could shoot. Proabably a mistake though.
     
  9. Anárion

    Anárion King of Gondor

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    Well, Gimili had just seen the Glittering Caves, and no other site awed him so, so maybe he was in a good mood and didnt want to talk about something that would just get him depressed again.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2002
  10. Confusticated

    Confusticated Registered User

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    Yep! You've got it. :D
    That is it! That also explains why he didn't mention Moria. ;)
     
  11. Anárion

    Anárion King of Gondor

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    Wow, Im right for once!
    That never happens...
    Im so proud of myself:D
     
  12. EverEve

    EverEve Back from a long hiatus

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    Wowee, you should be! It is possible that it was a mistake, but I think your right that that battle would be depressing. i seriously would have never caught that mistake though. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2002
  13. Confusticated

    Confusticated Registered User

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    Well...
    I was just kidding with you, I was being sarcastic (in a friendly way though) I thought this reply by you was doing the same, but perhaps not.
    You reasoned that Gimli did not mentioned the battle near the river because it would be depressing for him: He did mention Moria though, and I would like to know how you think that is different.
     
  14. Anárion

    Anárion King of Gondor

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    Hmm.....well.....
    I think you got me, because thinking of Moria would depress him.
    However maybe he didnt trust Eomer quite yet? And therefore he did not want to say that too him, however that is doubtful.
    I am thinking however, that maybe a close friend dieing is more grevious then a friend of your father and other beings of your race.
    Think about it: Gimli would have been sad, but not THAT sad, he would have been sadder(is that a word?) when Boromir died.
    Also, people die in this world every day, and we dont really know them, and dont think about it. But when your close friend dies, you grieve very much, and you do grieve if a freind of your fathers dies, yes, but a much closer friend you would grieve much more, especially when you knew that man and were traveling with him on a great quest, and you had been through hard times together.
     
  15. HLGStrider

    HLGStrider All Knowing Magic Cat

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    Truthfully, my thought would be "Where, when, and for what purpose was Gimli hewing wood?"

    It just doesn't seem like him to stop in the midst of their journey to chop down a tree.

    Anyway, it could be said that he was just being poetic to make a point. When one is witty one is careless with the truth, or however it is said.
     
  16. Inderjit S

    Inderjit S Bootylicious

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    I see no reason as to why Gimli would want to lie to Eomer, with regards to the attack by the river, since Aragorn had already informed Eomer of the attack-and the fact that the Ork's took the hobbits captive.

    I also do not think that Gimli didn't slay any Orks. Legolas uses the word "we", plural, implying him and Gimli, some argue that he was just using "we" as a matter of course but I don't think so. He also had his knife out, maybe it was because he had lost all his arrows, but I cannot help but think there was some close, hand-to-hand fighting.

    I think it was just a slip. There are quite a few of them, if you take enough notice. Why does Aragorn think the Ents are a Rohirric legend if they helped his father in his attack on the Dwarves of Nogord? He knew the Lay of Leithian.
     
  17. HLGStrider

    HLGStrider All Knowing Magic Cat

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    I think this is just a slip. . .but I DO have what I consider to be a perfectly good explanation for the Ent one, and I'm sticking to it.
     
  18. AustintheGreen

    AustintheGreen the Green Man

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    Don't you guys ever skip over certain events in your recent history when summarizing to someone in order to avoid the inevitable inquirey into something that is best left undisturbed in your memory for a time. The fellowship had lost both Boromir and Gandalf within a moon of each other. Perhaps Gimli simply wanted to make a statement without digging up the recent painful past.
     
  19. Inderjit S

    Inderjit S Bootylicious

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    Possibly, but why miss it out anyway? It's not like Eomer is going to ask Gimli a dozen questions about it, he already knows that they were attacked by Orks, who kidnapped their friends. And if Gimli was thinking about it and decided not to mention it that does not take away from the fact that he was thinking about it, and so the painful memories were already there, even if he did not mention them. And I think they must have spoken and thought about if a awful lot. And it wouldn't really have hurt much to say "the falls of Rauros" instead of Moria.
     
  20. HLGStrider

    HLGStrider All Knowing Magic Cat

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    I could believe that if this were a skip over, but this isn't. It is an add in.

    He didn't have to say anything at this point. He wasn't answering a question really. He was just making a poetic, unnecessary, point about how he would like to "Hunt some Orc." :rolleyes:

    The only slip on Gimli's part I could believe is that he wanted to be poetic, even at the expense of trimming the truth.

    But I don't know if this fits with his character. . .He can be poetic,but he is also very blunt.