Grey Havens?

Discussion in '"The Return of the King"' started by L.Greenleaf, Dec 19, 2003.

  1. L.Greenleaf

    L.Greenleaf Shire Dweller

    I am a little confused. I know that Frodo, Bilbo, and Gandalf take the ship at the end of the movie to go to the Grey Havens. I also know that the Grey Havens are known as the undying lands. However, I am a little confused because if the Grey Havens are the undying lands then that means they never die. However, Gandalf said he only came back until his work was done which implies he will die at the end. Can someone clarify this whole undying lands thing for me? Thanks.
  2. BelDain

    BelDain The Faithful

    The Grey Havens is where they took the boat from, not to.
    The undying lands are Aman.
  3. Gandalf White

    Gandalf White Gone Missing

    I don't think it implies he will die, merely that he will leave M-E.
  4. Elessar II

    Elessar II The Clark Kent of ME

    Another question. When everyone's on their way to the Grey Havens, and Frodo's narrating, didn't he say something like,
    "... the last voyage to the Grey Havens". But in the book, doesn't Sam eventually go as the "last of the ringbearers", as well as Legolas and Gimli?
  5. Gildor

    Gildor In Exile

    That's correct, in the book it wasn't the last ship. They just simplified it for the movie.
  6. Brytta

    Brytta 11th King of the Mark

    And according to the plot according to PJ, Sam will never go to the Undying Lands.

    In the book, Sam follows the others years later after Rosie passes away and his many children (I forget the exact number right now) have come to adulthood. Sam is allowed to go because he also is a ringbearer.

    In PJ's film, I believe that Sam never actually puts on the ring. So he is not a ringbearer and is not entitled to go to Aman.

    Reason for the change? Probably the stock answer that there wasn't enough time.
  7. 33Peregrin

    33Peregrin hmmm

    I am hoping that in the EE there will be something about Sam and the Ring. If there isn't, they'll probably use the same kind of excuse they used for Faramir not being able to resist the Ring.
    In the movie, it never says that Sam never went. Frodo's over voice is probably what he wrote in the red book, and he wouldn't know that Sam would never come.
    But who knows, even now, what PJ will make it be? Frodo and Sam's story was very not bookish, Sam wasn't even living in Bag End. I have very high hopes for the EE!
    Maybe the only appendicy PJ concerns himself with is Aragorn and Arwen.
  8. L.Greenleaf

    L.Greenleaf Shire Dweller

    Ok so they take the boat from the Grey Havens to the undying lands right? So that means Frodo, Bilbo, and Gandalf never die?
  9. breadfan35

    breadfan35 Registered User

    Are those stories in the Appendix of Return of the King? Where can I read about that? I never saw it before I heard people talking about it on here.
  10. Thingol

    Thingol King Of Doriath

    Yes, you can find all of this in the appendices lokk over the chronological part of the appendices to give a quick and easy insight.

  11. 33Peregrin

    33Peregrin hmmm

    I don't know about Gandalf, but I am pretty sure the hobbits will all die, in the Valinor. I am not, though, the best person to ask. The hobbits probably will die, because of Bilbo's unnatural long life, and him beating the old Took and all. Saruman also tells Frodo that he will not have a long life.
  12. Niirewen

    Niirewen Tear-maiden

    No, Gandalf does not die, he is a Maia and is immortal. Yes, the hobbits die because they are mortal and there is no way for a mortal to be made to live eternally. The hobbits go to the the Undying Lands and are cured of all their grief and eventually die. I believe Tolkien said in one of his letters that mortals' lives actually burn up more quickly in the Undying Lands.
  13. L.Greenleaf

    L.Greenleaf Shire Dweller

    I figured the hobbits die eventually because they are mortal but I was a little confused because they go to the undying lands so the "undying" part led me to believe they don't die. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

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