Help with sindarin translation

Discussion in 'The Languages of Middle-earth' started by vMarie, Jul 3, 2018.

  1. vMarie

    vMarie New Member

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    Hi, so I've been working on translating two sentences into sindarin. I'm going to have them tattooed so I want them to be as accurate as possible.
    They are:
    "I have passed through fire." and
    "and I have forgiven those who trespassed against me." (a mix of the last lines in the lord's prayer and changed it to past tense)

    This is a long text, so bear with me.
    What I've come up with is:

    I have passed through fire -> I (have) traversed through fire -> trevennin tîr naur

    - I'm not sure if "trevennin" is correct as it's derived from the verb "trevad-" (through-go). Would it, when changed to 1st person past tense, take the ending -in with mutation vad -> venn?
    - Also, is the sentence structure correct? Should it be "I (have) traversed through fire", or "fire I (have) traversed through"?

    and I have forgiven those who trespassed against me -> ar gohennin di ai agorir úgerthanner anim
    This is the one that has given me the most problems as you can imagine.

    First "gohennin" same problem as with "trevennin". It is derived from "gohena" (forgive) (In the lord's prayer it is "gohenam"). Would it then change from "gohena" (present tense - to forgive) to "gohenne-" (past tense - forgiven), and subsequently "gohenn-in"? Or should it be "gohenne-n"? (You see my confusion)

    Second, "di ai agorir". In the lord's prayer it is written "di ai gerir", my understanding is that this would be translated as "those who do". Would "di ai" still be used when the sentence is changed to past tense?
    - gerir, this is a tough one as several of my sources point out that this is another form of "cerir" (derived from the verb car- (to do, make)). However, they also list the past tense as agor-/agore-. Would I be correct in using agor-ir as "they did"/"they have done"?

    This would make my sentence so far (translated directly) to: "and forgiven-I those who did", right?

    And lastly we come to úgerthanner. In the lord's prayer it is written as úgerth (as both present tense singular (trespass) and plural (trespasses)), would I then keep úgerth and only add an ending to change it to 3rd person past tense?
    I have found two possible endings: -anner and -ernir to indicate 3rd person past tense, as in "trespassed + them/they", I am however uncertain as to which I should use as there doesn't seem to be a concrete rule for 3rd person past tense endings for words that end with -rth (that I have found that is).

    If I have done this correctly it should read: "and forgiven-I those who did trespassed to-me" which would be the closest to "and I have forgiven those who trespassed against me". At least if you follow the way the lord's prayer was written. (I hope)

    If anyone would be able to help with even a few of my questions I would be forever grateful :)