Is Sauron a Necromancer?

Discussion in '"The Lord of the Rings"' started by Ecthelion, Jan 26, 2003.

  1. Ecthelion

    Ecthelion .................

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    Is Sauron a Necromacer? I was looking through the Index in the back of The Return of The King and saw 'Necromancer', right next to the word it says 'see Sauron', I never heard of Sauron bieng a Necromancer, so my question is, is Sauron really a Necromancer?
     
  2. Glomund

    Glomund Registered User

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    I do not know if he was a necromancer, but in the Hobbit the "Necromancer" was a evil wizard used as a excuse for Gandalf to leave Bilbo and the Dwarves for a while, and he evolved into Sauron as LotR was written
     
  3. Ithrynluin

    Ithrynluin seeker of solace Staff Member

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    Yes he is. He is skilled in dark sorcery. He knows ways to unnaturally prolong life of mortals (the Ringwraiths, arguably the Mouth of Sauron).
     
  4. Bombadillo

    Bombadillo Skipping right along

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    yes, sauron was presumably the necromancer mentioned in the hobbit, when the wizards assault the tower in mirkwood, sauron fled and went to Mordor...
     
  5. Niniel

    Niniel Random Quoter

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    Hey Bombadillo ;)
    Are there any other wizards that are referred to as Necromancers, anywhere in Tolkien's work?
     
  6. Brent

    Brent Registered User

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    Tolkien doesn't really mean to use the word in its strict sense. Necromancer is a term for the evil presence in Dol Guldor not fortelling the Future by means of the Dead.
    And yes Sauron IS THE Necromancer.
     
  7. BlackCaptain

    BlackCaptain Vast Menace of Despair

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    A Necromancer is generally someone or something that conjurs spirits of the dead, and performs other magical things for evil use.

    With that said, Sauron would be magicaly re-enabling himself since he is planning to take over middle earth again. The first reply also put it good. The white council was held when Gandalf left bilbo and the Dwarves in Mirkwood, and went to drive out the Necromancer from Dul Goldur in south Mirkwood. Tolkien then turned him into Sauron, when he was making his story bigger (LOTR). I assume, that when he was thinking of an enemy, the Necromancer came to mind, and he evolved him into Sauron, and then developed more characters such as Aragorn, the saver of man-kind, Legolas, the son of Thranduil, and Gimli, son of Gloin, all who are essential to the plot.
     
  8. Bombadillo

    Bombadillo Skipping right along

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    no there isn't but can't I just act like i know something about lotr??:rolleyes:
     
  9. Lantarion

    Lantarion no house

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    Hehe Bombadillo. :)
    MorgulKing, a Necromancer, as far as it's name is concerned, refers directly to the reanimating of the dead, and nothing else.
    People, please don't try to categorize Tolkien's characters as things like "a Necromancer" or "a Witch" or "a Sorcerer". Apart from being all too D&D-ish, such rigid categories do not exist in Tolkien's world. So there. :p
     
  10. 10000 strong

    10000 strong Registered User

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    Awesome, I never knew why Gandalf had to leave the hobbits behind, I especially never thought that it would be Sauron that he was going to!!!:eek:
     
  11. BlackCaptain

    BlackCaptain Vast Menace of Despair

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    When he was writing the Hobbit, I dont think he knew it was Sauron. I dont even think he had any idea who exactly the necromancer was. The Necromancer was kind of an excuse for Gandalf to leave Bilbo and the Dwarves.

    So technicaly, he didnt go to Sauron in Dol Guldor, until he had developed his thought more... I think i put that right...
     
  12. Brent

    Brent Registered User

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    One hates to enter pedant of the year award but Necromancer is one who divines the future by means of the dead, just like a geomancer is one who divines the future by means of the earth and cartomancer is one who divines the future by means of cards.
    You don't have to reanimate them, though many famous woodblocks from the 15/16 00's show this.

    Couldn't agree more with your second point, though I think D&D pinched ALL their character classes from the characters in Tolkien.

    any takers on who is what ?
     
  13. Úlairi

    Úlairi Crying in the Wilderness

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    The Necromancer of Dol Guldur...

    Which of the dead would have these inherent qualities? Did Tolkien give any consideration to this? Was the 'gift of foresight' actually given to the Wise by those who were dead? We know that Mandos could certainly see the future, he predicted it many times, and he is in constant contact with the dead. Any opinions?
     
  14. grendel

    grendel Registered User

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    I suspect that he took the word to mean "evil sorcerer" or something like that... it does have an evil sound to it. I didn't realize it had an official definition.
     
  15. Illuvatar

    Illuvatar The One

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    Also, keep in mind that he wasn't really a Necromancer after all, he was the most powerful of all the Balrogs and Morgoth's right-hand man

    --The Silmarillion, pg. 285
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2003
  16. Úlairi

    Úlairi Crying in the Wilderness

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    Huh, I really don't know why I bother, but here goes:

    Think that says it all there, so, now we have all the petty stuff out of the way, let's get into the more interesting aspect of the conversation!
     
  17. nthman

    nthman Registered User

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    I'm not sure your definition is entirely accurate. I've always been under the impression that necromancy pertained to any sort of counsultation with the dead and not neccesarily telling the future. I could be wrong though, I'm no expert on the occult. It is a very interesting theory in any case.
     
  18. Inderjit S

    Inderjit S Bootylicious

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    LQII; HoME 10

    Of The Ruin of Beleriand

    Also, Sauron wasn't a Balrog.
     
  19. Úlairi

    Úlairi Crying in the Wilderness

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    Was that Later Quenta Inder? 'They do not speak truth or wisdom'. Hmmmm, but they can be used in a sense. This could make a very interesting discussion. Thanks for thre quote Inder.
     
  20. Illuvatar

    Illuvatar The One

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    I may be wrong, but in LOTR somewhere, I seem to remember Gandalf saying that the Balrog he slew was the most powerful one, SAVE THE ONE AT THE TOP OF THE DARK TOWER! Unless I'm mistaken, Sauron is the only thing on top of Barad-Dur, unless he had gathered some of the remnants of Morgoth's Balrogs to himself.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2004

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