Pick 1 Biggest Flaw in the Movies

Discussion in 'New Line Cinema's "The Hobbit"' started by Azrubêl, Mar 15, 2017.

?

Biggest Flaw

  1. Character development

    5 vote(s)
    62.5%
  2. Dialogue

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Plot development

    3 vote(s)
    37.5%
  4. Visuals

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Other

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Azrubêl

    Azrubêl Drúadan

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    I think the LOTR movies are so much better than The Hobbit ones, that it seems strange they were made by a lot of the same people. I think the absolute worst part about The Hobbit movies is how there are so many characters who "turn evil" for a short period of time then go back to normal. It's like the awkward scene from LOTR where Galadriel is tempted by the ring, except amplified. Introducing new "character flaws" like this just utterly changes the film and turns it into incoherent blockbuster garbage, relying on conflict that never is integrated into the plot in a meaningful way. Also, I think it's fine that they introduced a new female elf character and that it's utterly unacceptable how they make her primarily into a love interest, complete with Hollywood innuendos. The characters are done so poorly that it overshadows all the other flaws in the movies and nearly makes the story unrecognizable from the book. I hate the uninspired dialogue, the ugly CGI, and the cold mellow-dramatic plot tone, but I hate the characters the most.
     
  2. CirdanLinweilin

    CirdanLinweilin The Wandering Wastrel

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    DISCLAIMER: Before anyone lashes out at me like raptors on rabies, please understand, I am not a sexist in the slightest, I have no problem with female characters, as long as they are written RIGHT, go through fire, have flaws, and aren't lifeless MARY SUES. I am writing a ton of female characters in my own WIP Novel, so please don't go Jaws of Life on me. Kay? Good. :)

    *breathes*


    Tauriel.
    First off, they make her a love interest...to nothing else, but a dwarf, which defecates upon everything The Professor set down into his mythos about Dwarves, Elves, their mutual animosity, and how Legolas and Gimli healed that common hatred, and how that friendship was the first and ONLY of its kind.

    Kill dies, like we all knew and expected, so PJ, what was the point of Tauriel anyway?

    Second. She is nothing but a feminist Mary Sue. Even if she is an elf, i'm tired of seeing 90 pound women take out 200+ pound Orcs, men, what have you, and then say after how it's TOTALLY REALISTIC. o_O:mad: Give her flaws, make her feminine, not someone trying to be a man, not some Xena warrior Elf, (and don't we remember what happened last time? ;)) No flaws, no fire for her to go through, no character development. The whole of the two movies I was expecting an Orc to mop the floor with her...

    NOPE.:mad:

    It just goes to show that female characters today are lifeless, boring, flat and uninteresting to watch. :confused:

    Another flaw is Azog. HE SHOULD BE DEAD.

    Legolas is all right, I mean, I'm sure he was there, it's a high possibility.

    *whew* Rant Over

    Thanks for listening.

    CL
     

  3. Starbrow

    Starbrow Tolkien Fan

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    Can I vote for more than one? I've tried to block the movie from my mind; it was so horrible. One moment I hated was when the company split up instead of them all going to the Lonely Mountain.
    I don't really have a problem with adding characters, but I hate that PJ changed the characters - especially Thorin. What he did to him was demeaning.
    And what's with those orc worms digging through the earth.
     
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  4. Azrubêl

    Azrubêl Drúadan

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    I agree. I feel like there were constant "jump scares" too, where all of a sudden, for example, I went from enjoying a relatively good scene of all the dwarves in barrels going down the river to SURPRISE, another orc attack. It wasn't just that the movies were bad when compared to the source material, but they were literally incoherent in themselves.

    Every time it introduced a character, they appeared ominously for a few moments before it was revealed "oh actually this is just Bard, and he's a good guy".

    And seriously what the heck was with the worms?? So many awkward suspense moments that went nowhere.

    Yes, they made her a stereotypical love interest (I still can't believe there was a "guess what is in my pants" innuendo with Kili!!), and yet made her just stereotypically like a male elf warrior for the rest of it. That's just like a double insult.

    Yes, I was very mad when they did it with Denethor and Faramir in LOTR, but they magnified it in the Hobbit movies. I agree, I like it when there is some freedom in interpretation, but Tolkien's characters are so carefully crafted that EVERY flaw is very intentional and relates to the story in some significant way. It just ruins the whole plot by changing the characters like that.
     

  5. Elessar

    Elessar Chieftain of the Dúnedain

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    1 painful flaw: Making Sam give up so easily after Frodo dismisses him in Cirith Ungol. I mean, come on! Sam would've followed Frodo to the end.
     
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  6. Narya

    Narya ~He-he-he~

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    ...the last line made by Thranduil to his son.... doesn't make sense and is not canon.
    I can understand the love-angle - PJ needed to sell this movie to everyone - including those who were too lazy to read the book first. He had to add something that would be appealing to other audiences. Tolkien fans like us look for the interpretation of the book, other people want a love story, action, special effects, and costumes.
     
  7. CirdanLinweilin

    CirdanLinweilin The Wandering Wastrel

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    Right?

    Tolkien is definitely rolling in his grave....:(:eek:o_O

    CL
     
  8. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Member

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    I'm so glad I can look at the movies and novels as two different things. I love both, and don't care one bit about the differences. PJ made six very entertaining films, and I love them all.

    If the exact same three Hobbit films came out and there was never a Hobbit book, everybody would love these movies. Just sayin'.
     
  9. Gothmog

    Gothmog Lord of Balrogs Staff Member

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    The biggest flaw with the Hobbit movies? The badly misguided attempt to stretch the story over three films. It would have been hard enough to make enough filler to have two, three was probably one and a half too far.

    As for the films without the books that inspired them? In my view PJ managed one reasonably entertaining film (but only in the extended DVD cut), one mildly entertaining film, one "Curate's egg" film, and three possibly entertaining films though I have yet to force myself to sit through the whole of the Hobbit saga so cannot really say.
     
  10. Miguel

    Miguel Active Member

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    I can't take seriously main characters that are entirely made in cgi, that should be used to decorate what is filmed, not otherwise. Yeah, Smaug was bound to be cgi but still, Azog and Bolg looked and felt very nice (for Shadow of Mordor), not this. I feel in need of more Stan Winston's formula. I'm not sure but the overwhelming use of cgi may have been the cause of having so little time to finish the films in time, which i don't think he had the slightest fun doing.

    [​IMG]

    But see it this way, the movies are a gateway for newcomers to find out about the books.
     
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  11. Elaini

    Elaini Lost in Eä

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    Are you sure about that? If The Hobbit wouldn't exist and the Silmarillion still would, there would still be the lore on which basis the book readers would still critique the movie even if they were entirely original work.

    "What ifs"
    are useless anyway if it's already history. The Hobbit book cannot be unwritten, and Tolkien's other books wouldn't have gotten as much attention without it. Silmarillion was the lifelong project that he started first.

    Take the romance of Kili and Tauriel for example, which is a romance between a Tolkien's canon and Jackson's original character. The Silmarillion readers know how the relationships between mortals and immortals can be very tricky and they cannot stay together in both life and death unless the Valar would give it some kind of a bittersweet blessing and that is why they were very rare to begin with.

    Only five such cases had been written in over Three Ages (Andreth and Aegnor, Beren and Lúthien, Tuor and Idril, Imrazôr and Mithrellas, and Arwen and Aragorn).

    But the movies give no hints about the dilemma of differing fates and movies as a media have too limited time to go in such depths (which books can do) unless the topic was the actual focus.

    The Hobbit movie trilogy had its focus all over the place anyway.

    And silly scenes like these:

    0:18-0:30



    0:00-0:18

     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
  12. Menegilda Brandybuck

    Menegilda Brandybuck New Member

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    The whole extended 'Golbin-Town' scene defies the law that if you fall from a high place you usually die. The King Goblin is absolutely ludicrous. Old Bilbo in the FotR Rivendell in scene is scarier than the Goblin King could ever be.
    [​IMG]

    And also, I totally agree with this:
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Eebounnie

    Eebounnie New Member

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    My biggest problem with the Hobbit (movies) for me is the Relationship with Tauriel and Kili.
    I can understand why he wanted to add Tauriel and it could have been really interesting to have a strong minded female character. Alas she's completly dull (at least for me) and why would he create a "love interest" with a dwarf ? It make absolutely no sense !! If it was with Legolas well it would have been more credible...

    I'm not even going to mention the CGI, I found it ridiculous for the most parts.
     
  14. Elaini

    Elaini Lost in Eä

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    They didn't nail it in all parts indeed. In the movie theatre when I was watching the 3D version the running wargs appeared to be hovering off the ground.
     
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  15. Eebounnie

    Eebounnie New Member

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    Oh yes you're right ! For me the worst part was the fight between Legolas and Bolg at the end when Legolas was jumping on the rocks.