Quick Questions:

Discussion in '"The Shaping of Middle-earth"' started by Miguel, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. Miguel

    Miguel Member

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    Is it ever mentioned what's beyond Valinor going West?, Is it just Ekkaia until you reach The Land of the Sun?.

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  2. Kinofnerdanel

    Kinofnerdanel Member

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    Before Aman was removed from the circles of the world, there was Ekkaia, the Encircling Sea and beyond that, the Void. The whole world was flat and floated on that Outer Ocean, which formed air above sea level.

    Now our world is round (accurately: geoid) and that of the Valar can still be the same as it was. As I recall there is no exact information about it.
     
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  3. Miguel

    Miguel Member

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    I've been reading more into this but it's kinda puzzling. It seems like Vaiya (later renamed Ekkaia) was an ocean above the sky and everything else, but with air above sea level like you said. Yet Númenorian ships sank when they tried to sail on its waters, which means it was indeed reachable over the Belegaer; (Bermuda triangle...) Elves who tried to reach Valinor without permission probably lost in Ekkaia as well?, or crashed into Ilmen somehow?. Amandil?.

    1- The barely visible light gray is Vaiya/Ekkaia. It Surrounds everything and its edge is called "Ilurambar" which separates everything from The Void/Kúma. Ulmo's Halls were in Ekkaia, underneath the "Martalmar", the foundations of the earth. Apparently, Melko was carried over these waters before he was cast into The Void. The Door of night seems to be the only way in and out of Arda, even for the Valar. I would guess Ilurambar was probably not yet made when Tulkas came.

    2- The next layer is "Ilmen", said to have unbreathable airs and stars. Now, i think these "Stars" may refer to the ones made by Varda before the awakening of the Elves, apart from all the other stars in The Halls of Eä. Also, the air in Valinor is that of Ilmen, and only the ones who are allowed to live there can breath it.

    3- Next one is "Vista", filled with airs everyone outside Valinor can breathe. The upper part is "Fanyamar", where the clouds are and the lower part is "Aiwenórë", the land; or where birds may fly.

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    Now, after the fall of Númenor, wouldn't it still be a hidden half just like there was when it was flat?. Otherwise Aman should meet with The Land of the Sun.
     
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  4. Kinofnerdanel

    Kinofnerdanel Member

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    Wow, Miguel, that is a fascinating detail! Your elaborate answer suggests that your own question was to some extent rhetorical :D I am amazed by your insight into the topic!

    I share your point, it has to be a hidden half. So ships and airplanes got lost in the Bermuda triangle because that is where the passway to Aman was hidden?
     
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  5. Miguel

    Miguel Member

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    Oh that's all i learnt so far after a while on nerd mode, but i hope there could be notes telling more about this.

    To find the outer sea you just gotta water ski into the triangle, it's kinda complicated to come back tho. Also, Ulmo is way scarier than Melko, trust me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
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