Tengwar question - English Mode

Discussion in 'The Languages of Middle-earth' started by Andrew King, Sep 23, 2015.

  1. Andrew King

    Andrew King New Member

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    Hello!

    I've been playing about using the Tengwar to represent English words for a little while now, but have stumbled across a situation I can't quite figure out.

    If a word ends with two vowels, can you have a sequence of two vowel carriers next to each other to finish the word?

    For example, in writing the name 'Victoria', there's a fairly standard sequence of tengwar letters, with the tehta for 'i' over the 'c' and 'o' over the 'r'. However, at the end would you have the tehta for 'i' and 'a' on two vowel carriers, or is there anotehr way of representing a sequence of these two vowels?

    Apologies for the description, but not sure how to write out using script in this window.

    Thanks in advance for any input!

    Andrew.
     
  2. Galin

    Galin Registered User

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    Hi. I would guess that two final carriers in a row is acceptable, but at the moment I can't think of a Tolkien written example in English, if so. But if you want to avoid two final carriers, I think (one way at least) is to employ the "general mode" for English, which appears to allow vowel marks over the preceding or following consonant, as long as you are consistent within the same word, name, passage, document.

    Tolkien wrote English Rivendell both ways in a letter, for instance. Mans Bjorkman chose one version of JRRT's (Elvish version of) Rivendell for the phonemic spelling section in the following link (he notes here that the second vowel is ignored, but also notice the vowel placement in general, with i above r for example).

    http://at.mansbjorkman.net/teng_general_english.htm

    But I'm no expert... I should add :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015

  3. Gothmog

    Gothmog Lord of Balrogs Staff Member

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    Another possibility to avoid this question is to use the Mode of Beleriand which has Tengwa for the vowels. This can be a simpler way around the problems of English spellings.
     
  4. Galin

    Galin Registered User

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    The full modes look very nice too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
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  5. Andrew King

    Andrew King New Member

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    So I have translated the names like this...

    Erin Victoria.JPG
    is either more strictly 'correct' than the other? I guess this is straight-up orthographic vs. phonemic, but can anyone spot an error or anything i've done wrong? Its so strange seeing the double vowel carriers at the end!
    How would the names look using the mode of beleriand? I have always used the traditional tengwa straight from the appendices where i can because that's how i learned them when i was younger!

    Many thanks for the feedback!

    Andrew.
     
  6. Galin

    Galin Registered User

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    "Its so strange seeing the double vowel carriers at the end!"

    Hmm, in this style they almost look like another tengwa. Anyway, if you put the vowels over the preceding consonant (again, as in one version of Tolkien's "Rivendell" at least), you would have one carrier at the start (of erin), and one at the end (of victoria), although I assume you already realized this, but didn't go for it.

    No problem of course :D

    I mean obviously you don't have to, but if they look too strange to you... anyway I don't have much time, but here's a link that illustrates some of the full modes. Modes for English start at around page 22 I think.

    http://www.starchamber.com/paracelsus/elvish/tengwar-textbook.pdf
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2015

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