The Lord of The Rings vs. Harry Potter

Discussion in 'The Hall of Fire' started by Black Captain, Dec 5, 2011.

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Do you like Harry Potter or the lord of the rings better?

  1. Harry Potter

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. The lord of the rings

    17 vote(s)
    100.0%
  1. Black Captain

    Black Captain My breath brings death

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    I have a lot of cousins and friends who are really into this whole Harry Potter thing, and most of them hate TLOTR. Personally, I love the lord of the rings, and I can't stand Harry Potter and his twig-wand. Whenever I bring up the subject of TLOTR, they're always trying to get me to admit that there's really no difference between Harry Potter and the lord of the rings, and that I should just shut up. One girl in particular told me that there's really no difference between Mithrandir and Harry Potter except for the age difference. Well, I then proceeded to explain to her that there's a huge difference between Harry and Gandalf. I explained how Gandalf's a Maia and all, but then they told me that I was wrong, and Gandalf's just a regular person with magic too. And these guys have never even read The Silmarillion. Do any of you ever experience this kind of thing?
     
  2. Erestor Arcamen

    Erestor Arcamen Archivist Staff Member

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    I love them both, have read both sets of books mult. times. I'm more of an LOTR fan than HP though just because I've been reading LOTR longer. Being an LOTR board, you're probably running a biased poll here lol I don't think anyone here will be a bigger HP fan than LOTR
     

  3. Black Captain

    Black Captain My breath brings death

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    Perhaps... but I'm on an atheist forum called "Happy Atheist Forum," and yet I'm a Christian.
     
  4. Turgon

    Turgon Ghost-King of Gondolin

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    It's apples and oranges for me. While I'm a massive fan of Tolkien, I also like what Rowling did with the Potter stories. I don't think I can compare the two though. In fact I have trouble comparing Tolkien with most fantasy authors, because I'm not really sure if his stories are what I would really consider 'fantasy', or rather what has come to be considered 'fantasy'.

    I think it's also worth remembering that Rowling is still a relatively young woman, and that there could be more to come from her. Look how LoTR evolved from The Hobbit. If Rowling could come up with something fresh for the world she created, something that took Potter as the starting point but was vastly more ambitious, then she could create something quite spectacular. The success of the Potter books would certainly give her a massive springboard for her ideas.
     

  5. Prince of Cats

    Prince of Cats Among the Trees

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    I like The Lord of the Rings better. I don't believe it's fair to either of the writings to be compared too much with each other, as I feel they fall in different genres. It especially isn't fair to the Harry Potter series, as that isn't a fair fight :D But I'll give it a shot ...

    First, the Lord of the Rings is a historical fantasy set in a high fantasy setting that's presented in a way to not particularly be read as fantasy but more as tales of true events passed through the ages, and many people are inspired to feel like it's something that actually has happened. I believe he intelligently but organically weaves memes and archetypes that he's found to have profound effects on imagination and the greater mind through the ancient poetry he studied - and not always consciously or for a particular motive. I think that Tolkien wrote the stories more for himself than for publishing or to impress, as indicated by the great amount of writing that he never seemed to intend on printing that his son Christopher has since made available to us. It seems to me that Middle Earth was Tolkien's great personal passion and Tolkien's painting of it is a genuine and forgotten art.

    Whereas with the Harry Potter series ... it's a collection of memes and archetypes that we've come to associate with the genre of fantasy, but they're empty (IMO), assembled as such because that's what readers are looking for and expect. They lack the pseudo-spiritual essence of fairy-stories that Tolkien expertly brings forward. For me it's akin to the difference between harp music and one of those fake taxidermy fish like you would mount on the wall that dances and sings parodies of songs when you walk by. It's like a counterfeit made by a craftsman who didn't understand the true purpose of what they were making a forgery of. It looks like a computer, the parts inside it are the parts of a computer, but it doesn't turn on.
     
  6. Dúathiel

    Dúathiel Registered User

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    That's a very harsh criticism imo.

    I can enjoy both series in their own way and I don't think anybody would have thought to compare them if the movies had not been released almost at the same time.

    Tolkien was an author, but he was also a scientist. The amount of studying he has done before inventing the languages and legends of his world is incredible.

    Whereas the Harry Potter series was simply meant to be a novel for entertainment - for children originally.
    That does not mean it is empty. JK Rowling has processed many ideas of life and morality that concern not only children, but humans of all ages.

    Both series can be very enjoyable and inspiring - just in a different way.
     
  7. Bucky

    Bucky Registered User

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    I wouldn't
    really call Harry Potter inspiring ~ it represents much of the 'post-modern' world at it's finest: characters made to be ridiculed like Snape, The blonde kid (sorry his name escapes me now) & his fat, dumb friend, uh, Crabbe!. ;*)

    Hatred spewing forth from Harry is hardly wholwsome; and Lord Voldamort, well he's not a rip off of Sauron now is he? :*eek:

    Over all, HP is okay, but hardly has the depth of TLOR.

    I guess if I grew up on HP, I might think differently.
     
  8. Troll

    Troll Lorekeeper of Nardor

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    Harry did some growing up, though; he mostly got over the whole angst thing by the end... and both Snape and the blonde kid (Draco) got pretty good character development as well.
     
  9. Dúathiel

    Dúathiel Registered User

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    Well it's a good thing, that people can draw inspiration from many different things!

    You just have to look at the amount of HP themed fanart and fanfiction that floats around the internet, (some of which is really good) to know that HP is inspiring for many people. That's a fact not an opinion.

    HP was never meant to have the depth that Tolkien's world has. That is one point that absolutely doesn't have to be compared. That does not mean it can't be enjoyable and inspiring.
     
  10. Bucky

    Bucky Registered User

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    Yeah, HP whining is kinda like Luke whining in Star Wars. I honestly never even noticed that until I started reading about it online when checking in on whacky theories between movies when Lucas were making the 'PT'. So, it's really not too bad...

    I was just making the point that hate is hardly 'inspiring', that's all.

    One thing Rowling does do is steal a bit of Tolkienisms though, like 'Dark Lord' & don't I recall a woman named 'Bagshot'?

    But then again, Lucas also stole 'Dark Lord' too, as in DARk lord of the siTH'....

    DARTH :*eek:

    Did Tolkien 'steal' Dark Lord himself?
     
  11. Mr. Istari

    Mr. Istari Registered User

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    I personally love both, but I still had to go with LOTR over HP. Don't get me wrong, I love Harry Potter, but no story has affected me as much as LOTR with its depth of history, culture, and language.
     
  12. Dúathiel

    Dúathiel Registered User

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    There are probably many more parallels that could be drawn... the Dementors always reminded me of the Nine for instance, though their background is different.

    If I had to chose between Tolkiens books and Harry Potter to take on a lonely island, Tolkien would definitely win.
    I just don't think it's fair to dismiss HP as superficial junk. It has a huge amount of depth compared to the Twilight series and even that seems to be inspiring to many people ;*)

    Luckily I don't have to chose :*D


    Btw. Frodo's whining under influence of the ring always appeared to me in the same way. He's actually one of my least favourite characters from LOTR even though he's supposed to be the main hero.
     
  13. host of eldar

    host of eldar for mirkwood!

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    well, I experienced this a lot. actually I see this HP hooliganism especially among younger ones which is under twenty. they think HP is their generation book. when they started school they met HP first, read all one by one and became a fan. I try to explain some about lotr but some of them strictly responsed me. I think they don't want lotr or anything become dearer than HP:D or whatever..
     
  14. Bucky

    Bucky Registered User

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    Yeah, I definitely felt the dementors were a Nazgul rip-off. But, that has been said before, like the 'skull-bearers' in the Shanara series.

    Tolkien was accused of getting the Nazgul from Vampire stories like Dracula anyhow. :*eek:

    Frodo a whiner? I've never heard that before...

    Are you a 'movies first' person by any chance?

    I find that those who fell in love with M-e by seeing the movies first have often had their view substantially skewed by PJ's twisted take on the tale forever. :*rolleyes:
     
  15. Dúathiel

    Dúathiel Registered User

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    Yes for the first movie, no for part 2 and 3. I read all the books after seeing the first movie.

    You're probably right that the movie influenced my view on some things, especially Frodo, because I'm sometimes not so sure I like how he was performed.

    Fortunately it didn't influence the rest of the story so much. And I do love the movies in their own right, despite all the changes.

    I'm sure Tolkien had many different sources of influence for his stories. The Nazgul were always more wraithlike to me.
     
  16. Prince of Cats

    Prince of Cats Among the Trees

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    The presence of wraith in the modern English language is, as far as I've been able to find, credited to Tolkien. And the Nazgul were indeed wraith-like, ring-wraith-like in fact ;*)
     
  17. DerBerggeist

    DerBerggeist The Mountain Spirit

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    Both writers were geniuses in their own right. I love both series very much, yet LOTR takes the cake in this debate.
     
  18. Kolbitar

    Kolbitar Registered User

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    Some thoughts.

    I think this is a topic in which both taste and faculty come into play, both of which change scope, intensity, and ability over time and for various reasons.
    To compare LOTR with HP is akin to comparing a gourmet menu designed by PhD level nutritionists (obsessed with both taste and nutrition) for themselves, with 7 value meals from a pretty decent “burger joint.” No doubt, the Wendy’s double-stack was standard fare for my college days; now my favorite burger place is 5-guys. Compared with the food that my body really craves: whole natural foods, a variety of greens--naturally seasoned, fish—salty sweet and good to eat! (well cooked, mind you) and beans for protein—given the opportunity, I’ll take the gourmet blackened tilapia or salmon with a heaping plate of veggies on my rotating elaborate gourmet 3-month meal plan over the value meals #1 through #7 any day! The point is, when Tolkien made a metaphorical burger, it was with nutrition and taste in mind; but his range went so far well beyond just burgers. (BTW, I don’t think this is quite the ideal analogy...and I'm out of coffee, therefore >>>lays down and gives up on life<<<).

    Tolkien’s work passes through the same (in fact, it may have created the majority of) and beyond the dimension of Rowling’s. It exists within the same genre as Rowling’s work in the same way the Sphere from E.A. Abbot’s Flatland exists as a circle within Flatland itself (the second dimension.) This sounds a bit arrogant, but the Sphere may perhaps only be perceived as a “circle” to the circles inhabiting that plane, but to those who can travel beyond the second and into the third dimension….


    By the way--this is a great forum with some brilliant and beautiful minds. I've lurked here for many years before I joined. There really isn't a better forum out "in the wide-wide world" about Tolkien, is there? No need to answer such a non-sensical question.