The "WHAT IF...?" game

Discussion in '"The Lord of the Rings"' started by Lhunithiliel, Sep 10, 2002.

  1. Bucky

    Bucky Registered User

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    Yes, I agree with that completely - from the text of course:

    'And Sauron immediately took the form of a vampire , great as a dark cloud across the moon, and he fled, dripping blood from his throat upon the trees (where did the blood come from ? Huan?) and came to
    Taur-Nu-Fuin, and dwelt there, filling it with terror."

    Luthien:

    '...and the bat-fell of Thuringwethel. She was the messenger of Sauron, and was wont to fly in vampire's form to Angband (hence a shape-shifter also); and her great fingered wings were barbed at each joint's end with an iron claw....'
     
  2. YayGollum

    YayGollum Conscience of TTF

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    Is there some other as well as more popular website thingy out there? I don't know. I don't deal in internets much. oh well. Wild theories are crazy fun, though. Sure, they're better if they agree with the material more often than not, but they're fun, either way. Yay for a different way of looking at things? No? Anyways, since your quote doesn't exclude the existence of vampires, I type that they still could have existed. Supporting evidence for why he wouldn't have included them in his list ---> Were not vampires mostly as well as merely employed as messengers, and, while Sauron was shapeshifted, a getaway car? Of course, he could have included them, merely to include lots of scary things in his list, but if vampires in Middle Earth are mostly known for just being flying noncombatants, they would have diminished his list, yes? Also, where did anyone type about what they figured vampires to look like? I figured them to be giant man-bats, mostly, like ---> This :D But either way works. *grumbles about sickening vampires and their most horrifying feature ---> Their inexplicable popularity
     

  3. Bucky

    Bucky Registered User

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    Well, reread my quotes....

    They seem to indicate, as I said, Maiar of a greater (Sauron) or lesser (Thurwhatshername) nature that can shift shape, a 'gift' or 'power' certainly not given to any child of Illuvator, but only to Ainur.
    And as I said, the only Ainur left in M-e after the First Age appeared to have been Sauron & Durin's Bane.
     
  4. YayGollum

    YayGollum Conscience of TTF

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    Hm? Where did I type that I didn't think that they were Ainur type things? I merely mentioned what I figured they looked like, and, since Ainur take the form of whatever is most like their spirit, they all must have had very batty personalities. I also figure werewolves to be a lesser type of Ainu, just wolfier than most. Oo! What If...more people answered the current What If question, or someone came up with a new one? :rolleyes:
     

  5. Bucky

    Bucky Registered User

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    As I said, most Ainu type folk seem to have been dealt with in the War of Wrath and were not around in the Second and Third Ages.....

    Sauron and Durin's Bane were the main exceptions.

    Then, we have the apparent issue that evil seems to deprive Ainu from changing shape over the course of time.

    And as for were-wolves being Ainu, well, that's a tough one.....

    Tougher than dragons, and we all know how tough that one is, right?

    Wanna go there? :confused:

    If so, you start and I'll reply - too tired now & having to talk before the mayor and aldermen tonight, I need to prepare before my son gets home. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2010
  6. YayGollum

    YayGollum Conscience of TTF

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    Most of the Ainur type folk seem to have been dealt with in the War of Wrath and were not around in the Second and Third Ages? That seems a bit crazier than some of the other stuff you've been spouting. Most Ainur type things were invisible or just hanging out in paradise, from what I've read. But then, it would make more sense if you were merely typing of Mel's minions, which, sure, I'd agree with. They were thinking about taking Sauron back to paradise. I wouldn't be surprised if plenty of Mel's Ainurish buddies switched sides, then, and during the war, it would make sense for the popularly seen as good guys to kill the more dangerous minions first. But still. I would type that Sauron and that one balrog that Tolkien puts into a story were merely notable survivors. Plenty of things could be sleeping or hiding or somesuch.

    Towards the idea that being evil deprives Ainur of shapeshifting options, I thought that what actually did that was the loss of the energy to employ such powers. Mel couldn't do it anymore, because he poured so much of his energy into corrupting stuff, and Sauron couldn't, since one of his bodies got destroyed. If it was just acting in ways in which one person or another happens to currently believe to be evil, is there some way of measuring just how long they'd be able to have as many options as possible? And, either way, dang. How was Sauron being evil by getting drowned with Numenor? Seemed as if that one was beyond his control. If it was an evil act, shouldn't he have noticed that he couldn't shapeshift as well, directly after running over that one squirrel?

    Towards werewolves, I figure that they are Ainu because they are a kind of sentient shapeshifter. A low-rung brand of Maiar type thing. Sure, they could have been another crazy amalgamation type of thing, but I would have expected some form of explanation, if so. The explanation of Ainur, though, covers the existence of plenty of crazy monsters.

    What is tough about the subject of dragons? With my supreme confidence in all of my crazy ideas, I am sure that I know everything about dragons. If you wish to debate on the subject of dragons or wish to get into more of this other stuff that we've been de-railing the What If thread with, there are most probably other threads for it.
     
  7. Bucky

    Bucky Registered User

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    Well, I'll agree with you on one point:

    There sure were and STILL are TROLLS.

    Get it?

    :D
    'Nuff said.
     
  8. childoferu

    childoferu Registered User

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    speaking of dragons, what were their origins...i forgot
     
  9. Peeping-Tom

    Peeping-Tom Noldo & Uruk-Hai in one

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    I've always pictured them as derived from Balrogs in some way...
    (Morgoth's Evil Genetics Manipulation & Reproductions Lab. Inc.)

    Mostly because of the fire-breathing/shooting stuff...and maybe because in the drawn pics of them, they sure looks like each other.

    And then there's the isue about flight....do Balrogs fly?
    Well, even Tolkien himself was in doubt...so he made the first Balrog-decendents (Dragons) to be non-fliers, and the second generation to be fliers...
    But they all did have wings.....

    But this is just my own unjustified fantacy running wild.....have nothing to back it up!
     
  10. Jacob6080

    Jacob6080 Registered User

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    Towards werewolves, I figure that they are Ainu because they are a kind of sentient shapeshifter. A low-rung brand of Maiar type thing. Sure, they could have been another crazy amalgamation type of thing, but I would have expected some form of explanation, if so. The explanation of Ainur, though, covers the existence of plenty of crazy monsters.
    [​IMG]

    ----------------------------------
    Travesti
     
  11. ethan6080

    ethan6080 Registered User

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    the moment he was reaching for a knob a terrible knocking could be heard.
    "i'm coming! i'm coming!" - Bilbo shouted, red with anger for he didn't like to be urged (like most of us, right?). he pulled the knob and wanted to rebuke an impatient guest(s), but words choked in his throat. all he could stutter out came to: "master Gandalf?..."

    ------------------------------------------
    Best hotels at bhubaneswar
     
  12. BlackNúmenórean

    BlackNúmenórean Survivor Of Númenor

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    I'm confused from reading the last few pages? Is there a question you are discussing at the moment, :*confused: sorry.
     
  13. Mouth_Of_Sauron

    Mouth_Of_Sauron Herald of Mordor

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    scary thought: what if ungoliant had eaten the silmarils?
     
  14. Firawyn

    Firawyn Verbatim et litteratim.

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    I suppose that would be some Middle Earth archaeologist's dream come true when they found the pile of spider poop they were in. :p
     
  15. host of eldar

    host of eldar for mirkwood!

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    I have a fancy that as it burned hand of Morgoth, it would burn Ungoliant to ashes in her belly.
     
  16. Beorn84

    Beorn84 Member

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    What if frodo had fell in with the ring and gollum had survived
     
  17. Exma

    Exma Noldorian

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    Gollum looked into the fiery chasm just as the last bit of Frodo sank below the molten slag. He soon found his voice, or rather it found him as he croaked, Really? He stared harder as if doing so would alter what had just happened. He sucked in, filling his lungs with the hot ash filled air and screeched, REALLY? Disgusted, he turned away. Make no mistake, for it was not at the loss of Frodo that filled Gollum up with blind rage. It was at the loss of his Precious. The fetid creature made his way towards the opening of Sammath Naur, stepping right on top of Samwise as he went. Shut up, stupid fat Hobbitses, was Gollum's response. Once outside, Gollum looked about at the desolation unfolding around him. Perfect, he hissed. This is just perfect. He started down the steep, secret stairs that had brought them up Mount Doom, muttering to himself as he went along and occassionally cursing. All of it for nothing, for nothing. Catching the conies, keeping watch while they snoozed, taking that putrid Shelob on all those dates, kissing that Bagginses ass! Soon he was blubbering loudly as tears and boogers rolled down his chin and dripped onto his chest. Precioussss, oh my preciousss. His sight blinded by tears, he missed a step and went rolling down the steps until falling atop a small plateau into something like mud...yet it wasn't mud. It was a great pile of Fell Beast dung! In disbelief, Gollum raised his head sputtering, Ewwww....Wings of Wraith's poopses! He slipped some as he raised himself up and repeated his earlier mantra, REALLY!? Covered in Sauron's pet's manure and minus forever of his Precious, Gollum sat down on the steps and waited for whatever was to be...
     
  18. HarryTheWhite

    HarryTheWhite Wadiyatalkinabeet

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    What if Bilbo had Killed Gollum?
     
  19. DarkLordMelkor

    DarkLordMelkor What doesn't kill you, dissappoints me.

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    As Mithrandir said that Smeagol is gonna play a major role at this, the latter.. true, thus if Bilbo would have killed him.. the Nazgul would never have learned that the One Ring is in the Shire therefore there would be no reason to rush and everything would have been quite different. We can only speculate but I still fail to see that Frodo would have manage to reach Mount Doom, therefore my only option of somebody throwing the Ring is Elessar.
     
  20. Gigantor

    Gigantor New Member

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    Basically, what happened to Smeagol aka Gollum and what was starting to happen to Bilbo and then to Frodo would have happened to Isildur, you know, the whole going bats, not ageing a day, and eventually becoming like Gollum. Happy thought indeed (notice the sarcasm :)