Corn and culture heroes

[Ilmarin]

I’ve come across two other references in Tolkien in Sauron Defeated, “The Notion Club Papers (Part Two)”, both from Lowdham’s vision of the Old English hall. The first concerns traditions heard by Ælfwine in Ireland:The stories of the voyages of Maelduin and Brendan as well as some other voyages are well known. But here the tale of Men escaping from a land in the west that had been cast down is not part of any Irish tradition I know of.

(...)

There is nothing here of men from the sea.

Tolkien again seems to be inserting his own inventions into the background of recorded legend.

Greetings Jallan, I've found and read several interesting messages of yours in my researches in the NET during the last months.

I want to give my two cents about this comment made by you in the quoted message.

It seems that there are indeed stories in celtic legend about fugitives ( and kings ) of a land drowned in the sea. They are very obscure but Tolkien didn't invent them.

I believe that the text in the link right below 'll be fascinating to you as it was to me

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...i/lsatbrit.htm

Particulary intriguing is this passage

In the poem of the bard Taliesin called "The Spirits of the Deep," Arthur, in his mythological character, is alluded to in connection with a great deluge or similar catastrophe. The composition in question is obscure in verbiage and import, and evidently, as Turner observes, "involved in mythology." Davies believed the poem to allude "to the mysteries of the British Bacchus and Ceres," which were connected with "diluvian mythology," but admits that "another hand might be more dexterous in moving the rusty wards which guard these mysteries." The poem states that "Thrice the number that would have filled Prydwen (Arthur's ship) we entered into the deep; excepting seven, none have returned to Caer Sidi" (Place of the Circle).

The second stanza of this mysterious song proceeds to praise the lore, or mystic knowledge, "which was four times reviewed in the quadrangular enclosure." "We went," it concludes, "with Arthur in his splendid labours." Farther on, the bard sings: "In the quadrangular enclosure, in the island with the strong door, the twilight and the pitchy darkness were mixed together."
(...)

The fifth stanza of this weird lay also casts further light upon its Atlantean significance: "I will not redeem the multitudes with trailing shields. They knew not on what day the stroke would be given, nor what hour in the serene day, Cwy ('the agitated person') would be born, or who prevented his going into the dales of Devwy ('the possession of the water'). They know not the brindled ox with the thick head-band, having seven score knobs in his collar." This obviously refers to the populace of a country unconsciously awaiting the shock of catastrophe by deluge. As regards the allusion to the ox, "in almost every British memorial of the deluge," writes Davies, "the ox is introduced." The ox or bull was, it will be recalled, the sacred animal worshipped and sacrificed in Atlantis.

The song quoted above evidently refers to the escape from deluge of a company of persons under the 1eadership of the mythological Arthur.

Other interesting and relevant informations are available in these links
http://www.kingarthursknights.com/theland/lyonesse.asp

http://www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/myths_...s/wales/w_mid/

http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/...s/cantrev.html


http://www-personal.umich.edu/~merri.../lyonesse.html

Curious similarity between the quoted poem and the text of the Akhalabeth

In an hour unlocked for by Men this doom befell, on the nine and thirtieth day since the passing of the fleets

They knew not on what day the stroke would be given, nor what hour in the serene day(...)

I've just found that the quoted poem is an ill-translated excerpt of the Spoils of Annuvin ( Spirits of the Deep is an erroneous translation of Spoils of Annuvin ) ( there is indeed strange parallels with Akhalabêth. Both the stories are about kings ( Gilgamesh's like??) that are leading armies in order to invade guarded realms in which, supossedly, are held the secrets of immortality- the cauldron of life and the mystic land of Aman itself, in the teachings of Sauron, at least, in the later case )

http://www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/annwn.


23. Neut wyf glot geinmyn
kerd glywanawr. 23. I am honored in praise;
song is heard 24. ygkaer pedryfan
ynys pybyrdor 24. in the Fortress of Four-Peaks,
isle of the strong door. 25. echwyd amuchyd
kymyscetor 25. Flowing water and jet
are mingled. 26. gwin gloyw eugwirawt
rac eu gorgord. 26. Sparkling wine their liquor
before their retinue. 27. Tri lloneit prytwen
yd aetham ni ar vor. 27. Three fullnesses of Prydwen
we went on the sea. 28. namyn seith
ny dyrreith
ogaer rigor. 28. Except seven none rose up
from the Fortress of Hardness.

29. Ny obrynafi lawyr



llen llywyadur 29. I merit not the Lord's
little men of letters30. tra chaer wydyr ny welsynt wrhyt arthur.


30. Beyond the Glass Fortress they did not see
the valor of Arthur. 31. Tri vgeint canhwr
aseui ar y mur. 31. Six thousand men
stood upon the wall. 32. oed anhawd
ymadrawd
aegwylyadur 32. It was difficult
to speak
with their sentinel. 33. tri lloneit prytwen
yd aeth gan arthur. 33. Three fullnesses of Prydwen
went with Arthur. 34. namyn seith
ny dyrreith
ogaer golud. 34. Except seven
none rose up
from the Fortress of Guts (Hindrance?).

35. Ny obrynaf y lawyr
llaes eu kylchwy 35. I do not merit little men,
slack their shield straps. 36. ny wdant wy pydyd
peridyd pwy.36. They do not know which day
who was created (or: created whom?); 37. py awr ymeindyd
y ganet cwy. 37. what hour of midday (?)
Cwy was born. 38. Pwy gwnaeth
arnyt aeth
doleu defwy. 38. Who made him
who did not go
(to the) meadows of Defwy? 39. ny wdant wy yrych brych
bras y penrwy. 39. They do not know the brindled ox,
thick his headband. 40. Seith vgein kygwng
yny aerwy. 40. Seven score links
on his collar. 41. Aphan aetham ni gan arthur
auyrdwl gofwy. 41. And when we went with Arthur,
dolorous visit, 42. namyn seith
ny dyrreith
o gaer vandwy. 42. except seven
none rose up
from the fortress of God's

It seems that the two campaigns end tragicaly compare the

except seven
none rose up
from the fortress of God's

with

But Ar-Pharazôn the King and the mortal warriors that had set foot upon the land of Aman were buried under falling hills: there it is said that they lie imprisoned in the Caves of the Forgotten, until the Last Battle and the Day of Doom.

Hope that helps

Paulo

[Ilmarin]

http://camelot.celtic-twilight.com/i...o_garanhir.htm

Gwyddno Garanhir

From Lady Guest's Mabinogion Notes: -
"Gwyddno Garanhir was Sovereign of Cantref y Gwaelod, a territory bordering on the sea, and protected from its ravages by a high embankment. One evening there was revelry at the Court, and Seithenin, the son of Seithyn Saidi, King of Dyved, upon whom it devolved to look after the embankment and see that all was safe, became inebriated and neglected his charge. The consequence was that the sea broke in through the bank in the course of the night. Gwyddno and his Court escaped with difficulty from the impending ruin, and the Cantrev y Gwaelod was submerged and irretrievably lost. By this calamity sixteen fortified cities, the largest and finest that were in Wales, excepting only Caerlleon upon Usk, were entirely destroyed, and Cardigan Bay occupies the spot where the fertile plains of the Cantrev had been the habitation and support of a flourishing population. Such as escaped the inundation fled to Ardudwy, and the county of Arvon, and the mountains of Eryri (Snowdon), and other places not previously inhabited. By none was this misfortune more severely felt than by Gwyddno Garanhir, to whom the reverse of circumstances it occasioned was so great that, from being an opulent monarch, he was all at once reduced to the necessity of maintaining himself and his only son, the unfortunate Elphin, by the produce of the fishing weir mentioned in the text."
This disastrous event is commemorated in a proverb still repeated in the Principality-

"The sigh of Gwyddno Garanhir
When the wave rolled over his land."

There is also preserved in the Myvyrian Archaiology (I. 165), a short poem upon the subject attributed to Gwyddno Garanhir, in which there are some exceedingly poetic and striking passages. 'The bereft monarch calls upon the author of his distress to view the calamitous effects of his intemperance, pronounces maledictions upon his head, and describes the outcry of the perishing inhabitants of that unhappy region'. The poem bears a strong resemblance to some of the poems attributed to Llywarch Hen, and is probably as old as the sixth century.

"Stand forth Seithenin and behold the dwelling of heroes,-the plain of Gwyddno the ocean covers!
Accursed be the sea guard, who after his carousal let loose the destroying fountain of the raging deep.
Accursed be the watcher, who after his drunken revelry, loosed the fountain of the desolating sea.
A cry from the sea arises above the ramparts; even to heaven does it ascend,-after the fierce excess comes the long cessation!
A cry from the sea ascends above the ramparts; even to heaven does the supplication come !-after the excess there ensues restraint!
A cry from the sea awakens me this night!-
A cry from the sea arises above the winds!
A cry from the sea impels me from my place of rest this night!
After excess comes the far extending death!"

Another composition, attributed to him, is to be found in the same collection. It is in the colloquial form, between himself and the king of Faerie, Gwyn ap Nudd.
The magic basket of Gwyddno has a place amongst the Thirteen Precious Things of Britain.

[Prince of Cats]

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