The "WHAT IF...?" game-Archive

[Lhunithiliel]

"There in the black shadows, beyond the sight even of Manwe in his highest halls, Melkor with Ungoliant plotted his revenge. But when Ungoliant understood the purpose of Melkor, she was torn between lust and great fear; for she was loath to dare the perils of Aman and the power of the dreadful Lords, and she would not stir from her hiding."

"Therefore Melkor said to her: 'Do as I bid; and if thou hunger still when all is done, then I will give thee whatsoever thy lust may demand. Yea, with both hands.' Lightly he made this vow, as he ever did; and he laughed in his heart. Thus did the great thief set his lure for the lesser."

So, Melkor persuaded Ungoliant to help him. He had understood that alone he could not have defeated the united force of the other Valar. He needed her assistance.

The question is:
“WHAT IF UNGOLIANT HAD REFUSED?”

Sub-questions:

1. Would he have dared to assault the very heart of Valinor ALONE?

The events that followed:

“But even as Nienna mourned, there came messengers from Formenos, and they were Noldor and bore new tidings of evil. For they told how a blind Darkness came northward, and in the midst walked some power for which there was no name, and the Darkness issued from it. But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Feanor, and there he slew Finwe King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwe alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark. And they told that Melkor had broken the stronghold of Formenos, and taken all the Jewels of the Noldor that were hoarded in that place; and the Silmarils were gone.”

2/ Would Melkor had been able to take over Formenos and the Silmarills WITHOUT Ungoliant’s help? What if Ungoliant’s dark horror had not been there to scare the defendants of Formenos? Would they have chased Melkor away, in which case the Silmarils would have been saved….

And then……? THEN what would have happened IF….?

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Remember that you can offer your opinions in any possible form – a post, respectively changed quotes, your own story, pictures, drawings…whatever!

Let’s rewrite Tolkien!

[gate7ole]

What if Ungoliant had refused?

The aid of Ungoliant to Melkor was double dimensioned. She (female?) covered Melkor with her darkness, so that their entrance would not be revealed until it was too late, and she consumed the light of the Trees to cause confusion in the ultimate darkness. So, two questions arise if we suppose that Ungoliant would have refused in fear of the Valar.
a) Would Melkor be able to reach the two trees and Formenos and avoid being seen?
b) Would he be able to destroy the light of the Trees?
Let’s deal each question alone.
First, we must take into account that Melkor chose the perfect day to assault the Trees. He chose a celebration day, when Manwe invited everyone to come to his halls on Taniquetil. Thus, the “streets” would be emptied for his unbidden arrival. Also, another fact to be considered is that Melkor had at that time departed from Valinor and the other Valar where in trouble not knowing what he was planning, not even hearing any tiding of him. Thus, undoubtedly, whoever might see him, he would instantly inform Manwe. So, we conclude that if there was a possibility that Melkor would be noticed before reaching the Trees or Formenos, he would have to confront Tulkas at no time. This shows how great was Ungoliant’s contribution to the plan of Melkor. The streets were empty but how can we tell whether there were a few who had stayed home? Besides, Melkor would be able to come “incognito” since we read that every time he neared the Trees, they were losing their brightness. No, I think you would be caught before reaching the Trees.
But what about Formenos? We know it was not near Taniquetil where the Valar would be gathered and even when an elf might be aware of Melkor’s presence, he would have to travel some distance to inform the Valar. The Gods could travel in fast speed, but not elves. This delay would give some time to Melkor to complete his plan to kill Finwe and grab the Sils. I don’t think that it would be a problem to him to confront the great Finwe, even without the darkness of Ungoliant.
As for the second question, with the assumption that Melkor would eventually reach the Trees unnoticed, the light of the Trees might be too strong for him to conquer. His knife wouldn’t do such harm to completely destroy the Trees as the famine of Ungoliant did. Then the Valar would pursue him, under the faint (but existing light) of the Trees and possibly capture him.
As a conclusion, Ungoliant was an indispensable ally. Without her contribution Melkor would only partly succeed in his plan and even then the risks of being caught would be great. He knew it, that is why he tried to convince her before venturing. He probably wouldn’t follow this plan, he would put his cunning mind in thought of another.
That’s my opinion on the subject. It’s not a story, it’s more of an analysis of the possible development of the story

[Lhunithiliel]

gate7ole (btw. always wanted to ask what it means ), as always, great post!

As for me, I last night read smth. in the Guild of Writers, that gave me an idea. Would you all like to make up a "story" out the present "What if?-assumption? I'll start and everyone of you would continue to lead on the story, of course, not as it really happened, but having in mind the "What if?- main and sub-questions.
I'll give this idea a chance and let's see where it will take us.
There we start:
In a ravine Ungoliant lived, and took shape as a spider of monstrous form, weaving her black webs in a cleft of the mountains. There she sucked up all light that she could find, and spun it forth again in dark nets of strangling gloom, until no light more could come to her abode; and she was famished.
Now Melkor came to Avathar and sought her out; and he put on again the form that he had worn as the tyrant of Utumno: a dark Lord, tall and terrible. There in the black shadows, beyond the sight even of Manwë in his highest halls, Melkor with Ungoliant plotted his revenge.
But when Ungoliant understood the purpose of Melkor, she was torn between lust and great fear; for she was loath to dare the perils of Aman and the power of the dreadful Lords, and she would not stir from her hiding.
Therefore Melkor said to her: 'Do as I bid; and if thou hunger still when all is done, then I will give thee whatsoever thy lust may demand....and he laughed in his heart.
But Ungoliant sensed he was not telling her all the truth. Could she expect anything else?! A thief he was and a dark soul. She could sense the deceit in his eyes.
She loved the deep shadows beneath the sheer walls of the mountains and the cold dark sea. She feared the light, she hated the trees of the Valar... Why leave and go out in the light?! ...But she felt hunger. Little she had around to feed on, while there was the Guarded Realm of the Valar, the woods of Oromë, and the fields and pastures of Yavanna... "Stupid Valar!"-she thought."Do you think all this should be for your own delight? I could be the mistress of this valey! ...... Yet, the Valar are mighty!" And her ugly huge black body shivered with fear at the thought of the eyes of Tulkas, eyes burning with the fire of revenge. ......
Now it's your turn

[gate7ole]

Oh, I'm not a good writer myself. That's why I didn't join the Guild of Writers, although I adore making stories of ME. But I'll give it a try and I'll write my passage when I get some free time (damn these boring university exams).
As for my name, the explanation may dissapoint you. It has nothing to do with Tolkien. It's related to the football team I support (my other great love besides Tolkien, probably greater).

[Gil-Galad]

Neither do I.But I suppose that thing:
She will be scared to attack Valinor,but soon she will be so hungry that she will go without any fear.Having in mind that she is a mighty creature,Valar will have many problems before to defeat her.At the same time Morgoth will be watchig from somewehere,hidden from Manwe's eyes.When he see what Ungoliant is doing he will come out of his "hole".Then he will reach Valinor from north,while the Valar are fighting with Ungoliant.He will do what he does in the book and the stoy will continue as it's written.
I'm not very good at writing fantasy stories.........,but Lhu you're so talanted,I'm proud of you!!!Why don't you write something else?

[gate7ole]

Ok, I stole some time from the exams.
The story goes on:

It was perilous. She had not illusions. What this dark Vala was proposing was an attack against his powerful kin. The profits gained should deserve the risk… Then again her famine conquered her mind. She lusted the silver light of Telperion. There in the ravine, many times before her shadow was defeated by the glorious light of the Two Trees. She wanted her revenge… At last she decided. She would give a chance to Melkor, but any treason by him wouldn’t be tolerated.
A cloak of darkness she wove about them when Melkor and Ungoliant set forth;..... . Then slowly she wrought her webs: rope by rope from cleft to cleft, from jutting rock to pinnacle of stone, ever climbing upwards, crawling and clinging, until at last she reached the very summit of Hyarmentir, the highest mountain in that region of the world, far south of great Taniquetil. There the Valar were not vigilant. But Ungoliant suddenly stopped. Seeing far away the great white mountain, terror overcame her greed. The Valar might be celebrating but still Thorondor was watchful. In a sudden burst, she turned south and with great speed she abandoned Melkor.
There in the summit of Hyarmentir stood Melkor, bewildered and wrathful for the betrayal. He could not go back. There was only one way, the one leading to Valmar. It was a time of festival, as he knew well and thus his only chance to proceed with the plan, with or without Ungoliant’s help. So, he stepped forward, towards the north...

As I said, I’m not much of a writer. I hope it doesn’t suck. Next writer, please…

[Gil-Galad]

O,it doesn't suck!!!The idea is very intersting.....would you continue.......?

[Lhunithiliel]

.......Now it was a time of festival. Manwe made a high feast for the praising of Eru, when all the peoples of Valinor poured forth their joy in music and song upon Taniquetil. This now was the hour, and Manwe decreed a feast more glorious than any that had been held since the coming of the Eldar to Aman.
There came the Vanyar, and there came the Noldor of Tirion. All the Maiar were gathered together, and the Valar were arrayed in their beauty and majesty; and they sang before Manwë and Varda in their lofty halls, or danced upon the green slopes of the Mountain that looked west towards the Trees.
Melkor watched all this joy and splendour and his heart was filled with wrath. HE! -the greatest of all was not invited! HE!! – the mightiest of all had been chased away like some despicable servant-Maia… He laughed and his laughter was harsh and malicious. “So, what if that monster of Ungoliant refused to be on my side?!” – he thought , “Let her rot there in the deepest shadows! What I need, I’ll get and no one will ever stand in my way!”
And what Melkor wanted, was to ruin the Trees, as he knew too well how precious they were to his brethren and what a severe wound he would cause them - right into their hearts! No more light there will be over the valley of Valinor, the shadow will reign and in that shadow – HE – Melkor the Dreadful, Melkor - the Great, Melkor – the Fearful will be the ONLY ruler of all Arda!…..Now was the time! He laughed again and there was a lightning, then a dark shadowy cloud – shapeless and black, appeared where he stood before. And then suddenly it was parted in two. One part was quickly carried away, as if by a strong wind, and where it went, noone knew then.
And there crawled the other half as a dark shadow and it moved to the light, the music and the joy of the feast… and it moved swiftly. Malice and horror it brought, lust for destruction and death. Noone noticed it and those who did, were too late. The shadow wrapped the Trees and the light was gone. And there grew a great confusion among all and they cried, but knew not what to do. Now strange rain-drops started pouring over the Trees and the poison of Death that dark rain brought and it went into their tissues and withered them, root, branch, and leaf; and they died.
So the great darkness fell upon Valinor. Valmar had foundered in a deep sea of night No song or tale could contain all the grief and terror that then befell, and there was silence in Valinor, and no sound could be heard.
But then a terrible sound aroused – a laughter – triumphant, malicious and cruel. And all the eyes looked around to see where it came from. And they saw the tall dark figure of Melkor towering over, for he had returned his shape again.
“Now!” – cried Melkor – “Bow before your Master and Lord!” And his voice was terrible and many Eldar and Maiar were terrified.
But there stood Feanor. He had decided to obey Manwe and come to the feast, but he had come not in raiment of festival, and he wore no ornament, neither silver nor gold nor any gem; and he denied the sight of the Silmarils to the Valar and the Eldar, and left them locked in Formenos in their chamber of iron.
Now, none of the Eldalië ever hated Melkor more than Fëanor son of Finwë and when he now saw what his bitter enemy had done he was filled with rage.
“Bow I shall not before you, Morgoth!” – he cried. “Cursed you are among the Gods and you will never reign over the Eldar, for WE are the Firstborn – the Children of Illuvatar! Do you, in your madness, believe HE will let you rule in his name?!”
“I hear you miserable creature!” – laughed back Melkor. “How dare you say these words to me – the Dark Lord!” And then he mocked - “Oh, and where are your precious stones? If you believe you have them and your father well protected in Formenos, then you are wrong!”……….

Now it's your turn

[gate7ole]

Mmm, I had a difficulty to choose whether Melkor will battle with Tulkas or not. Finally I didn't decide and I'll let the next one do

And he opened his hand and the light of the Silmarills poured in front of Feanor’s stoned stature. Then the three gems feeling the sorrow and wrath of their creator, revenged their burglar and started to burn him and his hand was clenched in pain. Nonetheless Melkor closed his fist and raising his malicious hammer, stroke once on the ground. But this sudden quake arose Feanor from his torpidity and bounced forth he screamed.
“I curse you, Morgoth, Dark Lord of emptiness, I vow to my father’s rest that I will revenge you for the blood you have split, for the light you have drained. You have provoked the wrath of the Noldor and this you will repent many times.”
And he grabbed his sword and leapt once more forth.
“No vows can help you now, pitiful slave of Manwe. No Noldo and no Vala can stop my conquer now.”, laught Melko.
He said it lightly and as soon as he raised his hammer for another stroke, yet this time against Feanor, the terrible voice of Tulkas seized the air. He and Orome had started a-hunting. Now Melko’s scar in his face by Tulkas’ punch ached again and forgetting Feanor he leapt back and pondered the situation. Dealing with Tulkas was not of his original plan.
“He will have my revenge in due time”, he thought. “I’ll let them weep now for the loss of their trees”.
Thus, giving a last stroke on Feanor, which he readily avoided, he turn north and with great speed run towards the Grinding Ice.

[Lhunithiliel]

Super!

But, remember this part of my "story"?

!…..Now was the time! He laughed again and there was a lightning, then a dark shadowy cloud – shapeless and black, appeared where he stood before. And then suddenly it was parted in two. One part was quickly carried away, as if by a strong wind, and where it went, noone knew then. (I intended THIS part to be the "thief" of the Silmarils, but as Melkor had already got hold of them somehow... magic?)

But let the story go on...
The North! The Ice lands... There he could be safe and perhaps the ice will heal his hand burning with those gems in it! And swift was his march to those far lands. ... But then Melkor felt that the other part of his own, was calling him from another place.....Sweet to his ears was that call, for it was filled with lust for blood and death...And Melkor knew where it came from - the Gates of Formenos. Now the pain that the Silmarils caused him was so great! But the only thing he could think of was REVENGE! And he will have it! He will fly to Formenos and he will rejoin with his other part and become invincible! He will ruin Formenos and slay Feanor's father and all his men...THEN he will finally avenge that boastful Eldar! ...
From the highs of Taniquetil Manwe saw a dark cloud flying fast to Formenos. And he knew it was Melkor and he knew that the first blood will soon be spilled in the Blessed Realm if Melkor reached his aim. Now rose the migthy Vala and he summoned his eagles. "Fly!' - he said to them - "Fly fast and warn the Masters of Formnos and when the right moment comes, fight the Dark Lord and give my blessing for the Firstborn!" .....And the air over the darkened valey of Valinor felt a fresh and strong wind - the Eagles of Manwe were flying over it and the dark shadows were cast away by the wind their mighty wings brought....
And with the wind and in the new light, down across the valey ran wildly Feanor, and his sons followed, and many Noldor were with them - their shining swords up and ready for fight. Ahead of this little army rode Orome and the sound of his horn could be heard far in the distance. And by his right side was Tulkas. Fierce was his face and heavenly fire was burning in his eyes.... They all moved fast and soon they could see the Gates of Feanor's castle.....

Your turn

[Nenya Evenstar]

Great story!

But, with the sight of the gates came despair into the hearts of the great host. Many of the Noldor cried aloud for there before them stood the gates of Feanor, now blackened and wrenched from their posts in ruin. Feanor's heart gave way within him - for what reason he knew not, but he knew that something terrible had happened in his halls. The black cloud of Morgoth, the Black Enemy, covered the halls and from inside could be heard a great wailing. The Thorondor flew into the reaking smoke as Orome let blow a great blast from Valaroma. Tulkas sprang through the twisted gates followed closely by Feanor, who would not be stopped, and together they ran up the front steps on Formenos. With the coming of Tulkas a dark shadow drifted out of the halls and sped away to the north like the wind. Close on its heals was Tulkas and behind him rode Orome, blowing the heavenly horn with all his might.

Feanor, however, stayed at his home with the rest of the Noldor. When they entered the halls they came upon Finwe lying on the ground as though smitten with a deadly wound. The elves of Feanor's house were surrounding him, but relief, not sadness was in their eyes. "My Lord," they said, "this dark shadow entered the gates of Formenos and broke them. It bore down into your stronghold and ascended onto your father, Finwe. However, we would not forsake him, and we overcame our fear of the darkness. We thought he had died, but your father lives still." With a grateful heart and tears pouring down his face, Feanor embraced his father who was weak, but still alive. He cursed Morgoth for causing the ill health of his father, but he praised Illuvatar for allowing Finwe to live. Then, in the midst of the thankful group of Noldor, a shadow decended. Melkor had not forgotten about his second half - indeed his plan was only beginning to unfold.

Oops! Forgot this part: Your turn

[gate7ole]

“We meet again, servant of Manwe and this time not even Tulkas will save you.” laughed Melkor at Feanor’s face. Then he raised Grond and gave a heavy strike on him. Feanor though, was not unprepared and leapt on the right. No other elf stood in front of the Dark Lord. So, began a great battle that no tale dares to contain all its grief and sorrow. Two strikes gave Melkor and twice did Feanor leap back. At last another sudden crush kneeled him but good fate finally came and Melkor proudly left his feet unprotected. Feanot grabbed the chance and with furious rage he thrust Melkor’s leg with his sword. So vicious was the scar that Melkor’s scream quaked the earth and all the elves in the room shivered with fear. But Feanor’s heart did not faint and he arose again and warded off Melkor’s crush. But he was exhausted by the battle and would not stand up more. Then Grond was raised for a final time and falling would have crushed Feanor’s body, but for Finwe’s intervention. He had gathered his last strength, came between the two combatants and received the fatal blow. So, ended the great king of Noldor.
Next to Finwe’s body laid Feanor who receiving a part of the blow had lost all his strength. Melkor arose in full stature and mocked. “Take now your father’s body and give it to Manwe to protect it. You provoked my Wrath and this was your punishment.” And turning back he walked away, letting Feanor live, for this was also his way, to spread lies and mischief among his foes. And as he was drawing away unhambered through the dismayed elves, Feanor gathered his last breath and vowed. “I curse you Morgoth. I will hunt you and revenge my father’s blood.”. Morgoth didn’t heed him and left the halls.
“I must find my other half”, he thought, “we have problems there”. And turning north he headed towards Helcaraxe.


(sadly I couldn't let Finwe live)

[Nenya Evenstar]

(I am glad you didn't let him live - I had hoped that the story would run that way.)

The shadow of one half of Melkor's body drifted out of the halls of Feanor leaving behind sorrow and despair. It drifted north to where the sky could be seen strewn with lightning and bursts of fire, and there it waited unseen in the shadows. A battle was taking place between Tulkus, Orome, the Eagles of Manwe and one half of Melkor's evil spirit. It seemed that Melkor was hard put to defend himself from the numerous attacks of the mighty Valar and the mighty servants of Manwe, but he defended himself well though he received many injuries which scored his body, for he had indeed taken shape as well as he could having only one half of his spirit with him. The other half waited. The battle was long and terrible, and few songs have survived to tell the tale of how Tulkus wrestled with his greatest foe, how Orome would blow the great Valaroma to the very weakening of Melkor, and how the Eagles would brave the very fires and sword of Melkor, the evil one, to conflict him with painful gashes. But deep in his heart, in the midst of his despair, Melkor laughed aloud. He knew that he could not be vanquished here for he was not whole, and half of his spirit still survived untouched. It was just at that moment, when Melkor cackled in the uttermost depths of his heart, that the sword of Tulkus swept across Melkor's body and he fell. His breath came in labored gasps and he knew that he would have passed away and out of all knowledge but for his little secret. "You have met your doom, dog and demon of evil!" Tulkus cried. But Melkor only laughed. "Your days of tyranny in Ea are ended!" Tulkus again cried as he smote Melkor on the crown, and the spirit of Melkor fled out of his body. The two Valar stood puzzled for they knew that Melkor's spirit itself should have been vanquished and utterly destroyed, and yet they knew it was not so. Their hearts were filled with the burden that they had been deceived, and they were filled with anger and sorrow.

[Gil-Galad]

Hey guys if I were you I would write a whole book.I must confess I like all your ideas.Be careful,cause you may write things better than Tolkien!

[gate7ole]

Far ahead, a great storm aroused. Clouds filled the clear sky and lightning burst. A darkness spread all over and every bird and animal was filled with terror. But no mist, no darkness could restrain the wrath of Tulkas. With Orome just behind him they fled towards the mist. They knew what had caused it and were prepared this time to get rid of Morgoth once and for all.
Melkor had not been idle. After the joining with his other wounded half, he had still the strength to run and escape from the hunt. He was after all the mightier Valar and even if he couldn’t outdistance Tulkas, his cunning and misdirection aided him and confused his foes. He had still the ability to take the shape of a shadow and befog the others, though this ability was soon to be lost.
Thus it came that Melkor arrived safely at Helcaraxe and neither the birds and beasts of Orome, nor the speed of Tulkas managed to reveal his hiding. From there the road to the Iron Mountains and his tower on Thangorodrim was free. The other Valar knew it as they also knew that they could not at the moment fight into Morgoth’s dark dungeons. So, they arrived back in Valinor and informed Manwe of the unsuccessful hunt for Melkor.

I believe that here ends this section. From here, Silmarillion describes the following events much better.
Maybe it’s time for another What If section. Lhunithiliel, give the next subject, and of course start the story.