The Eagle Factor

[Talimon]

I don't claim to be master of all that's Middle Earth, but these few thing has been bothering me for some time. If anyone knows the answer I'll be grateful.

My main puzzlement is over Gandalf, following his escape from Isengard. He is carried by Gwahir (I think that's the name) to Rohan, where he recieves Shadowfax. Here is where my problem arises. Why couldn't Gandalf tell Gwahir to come to Rivendell, and at that point carry Frodo closer to Mordor? I haven't read the Sil, but from what I can tell it seems as though the Eagles have immense stamina and speed. Couldn't they carry Frodo right into Mordor, or at least somewhat closer? This would seem to take care of a lot of trouble.

[Gamil Zirak]

The key to getting the ring into Mordor was secrecy. It would be really obvious if an eagle was flying Frodo into Mordor. The eagle would be an easy target for arrows. Also, the Nazgul were on winged steeds. Just imagine the nine chasing after Frodo as he's held onto by his shirt. The eagle wouldn't be able to do much in the form of combat while carrying someone. If they send a flock of eagles (not flock of seagulls), they are easily spotted.

[chrysophalax]

Plus the books wouldn't have been nearly as exciting!

[Lantarion]

About the arrows, I don't think any of the Great Eagles (which I believe are the servants of Manwë, from Beleriand) could be killed by a few arrows - even if they did hit.
And Gwaihir did not fly Gandalf to Rohan, but to Lothlórien.
But yes, the book might be a bit too dull if the climax was achieved so easily.

[Gamil Zirak]

Gwaihir did in fact fly Gandalf to Rohan from Orthanc. He also flew Gandalf to Lórien from Zirakzigil.

Gwaihir may not be killed by a few arrows but a hobbit in his tallons would be.

[Talimon]

I have to disagree. For one, I didn't say necessarily into Mordor. Just closer. If you think an Eagle, flying thousands of feet in the sky, could be easily spotted, you have it quite wrong. Only Aragorn and Legolas could spot things that high, and folk of thier kind were quite rare. And besides, couldn't Gwahir choose a safe path? It would save the company plenty of trouble if they were at least just given passage over the Misty Mountains.

Of course, story wise this would ruin everything. I'm not complaining about that. But Tolkien had a way of filling holes in the story. For example, much of the Council of Elrond is spent filling holes as to why the ring must be destroyed, and not hidden. Too bad he couldn't have mentioned something about the Eagles while he was at it. But like I said, I bet there is some explanation if you read the Sil.

[Elu Thingol]

I have found a website which I find very interesting which responds to most arguments about Frodo coming into Mordor on Eagle.

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kurisuto/eagles.html

Now the reason maybe the Eagles did not take Frodo nearer to Mordor is only because they are used in the direst of need and maybe an eagle flying through the air would alert Sauron's forces. Now as to the Eagles getting into Mordor I have written something that should prove this impossible.

This is a letter which I wrote to the creator of the website I listed:

I find your scenario very interesting but I have an argument which I think you should respond to that has not yet been posted. I find it safe to say that the one problem with your plan is that Frodo would NOT THROW THE RING INTO THE FIRE. I quote " 'I have come,' he said. 'But I do not choose now to do what I came to do. I will not do this deed. The ring is mine!' And suddenly, as he set it on his finger, he vanished from Sam's sight." (pg 274 paragraph 4 The Return of the King). The problem with your plan is that you underestimate the power of the ring. You assume that Frodo would be able to throw the ring in because he would not have been in Mordor for that long period of time and it would be a quick descision. These are valid arguments yes, You might say how could I possibly know if he would throw the ring in or not. I have two instances in which both men and hobbits could not throw the ring into the mountain. Frodo could not throw it in at the end of the last book and Isildur could not throw it in after he cut it from Sauron's finger. You also might say that the power of the ring would not have enough time to take over Frodo's mind, but the power of the ring increases steadily as you get closer to the mountain and by the time Frodo got to the mountain it would be at full strength. The effects of the ring on the mind are hard to tell but by the examples in the book it doesn't take a long time before you would not be able to destroy the ring or part with it. The ring is in the book and is a perfectly viable in my argument, just as eagles are in the book and are perfectly viable in your theory. You also might say that the council should have picked the eagles plan, but I think I have a reason the Council may not have considered flying Frodo through the Mountains. By saying the mountains are unable to climb(as stated at the site) means they are probably extremely high. Most people consider Mount Everest almost impossible to climb so I figure these mountains are close. Now Mount Everest is nearly 30,000 ft tall and to fly over it would be relatively easy with a plane. But exposed the environment at such high altitudes one would develope a severe case of hypoxia which would almost certainly make the person faint and might be fatal (too dangerous). The only other alternative is to navigate your way through the Mountains at low altitudes still a bit chilly but hey it wont kill you. The only problem is Mordor is extremely dark and Mountain fog is very common. Without a 5 mile radius range of sight only an experienced flyer of that area could navigate the mountains(Mountain flying for flatlanders). Getting lost is much easier that you think. I conclude that flying through mountains in the dark with a high chance of fog is just an equation for disaster so the council judged it as too much of a risk factor and found it safer to go through by land.

THIS SHOULD DISBAND ANYONE'S FANTASY THAT THE EAGLES COULD HAVE FLOWN FRODO INTO MORDOR

[DRavisher]

The original question was why the eagle that flew Gandalf from Orthanc to Rohan didn't carry him any longer. I remember that Gandalf asked the eagle how far he could go, and the reply was: "far, but not to the end of the world", or something like that. Gandalf then said that he needed a horse, and the eagle agreed to fly him to Rohan. So it seems like it was Gandalfs choice, and perhaps when the eagle said "not to the end of the world", Gandalf knew that he would not go all the way to Rivendell.

[HLGStrider]

Also, they would've needed several Eagles to take the whole quest there if they were only bringing Frodo Closer to Mordor, which I believe was in the origenal question. This would be obvious and risky with a flock of eagles going everywhere carrying humans, dwarves... etc. After all, Frodo couldn't get into Mordor on his own.

[Greenwood]

I agree with those who say that one or more eagles carrying people hundreds of miles would be noticed. They could not fly it non-stop so would have to put down occasionally and the Enemy also had birds in service as spies (for example the crebain the Fellowship hid from before the passage through Moria). And, of course, there are the Nazgul's flying steeds to contend with.

[HLGStrider]

I'd like to see an Eagle and Nazgul's flying stead battle... or several eagles...

Do you think a large group of Eagle's could take out a Nazgul?

[pohuist]

I think this question was duscussed on this forum before, but nonetheless:

It seems indeed that Frodo would have been unable to throw the Ring into the Mountain of Doom, as he was unable to throw it into the fireplace in his own home much earlier ("The Shadow of the Past"). So, flying him into Mordor seems rather useless. Flying him closer to Mordor doesn't seem such a good idea either, the key in the Quest was secrecy and Sauron didn't have a clue that the Ring goes to Mordor. Flying Frodo and the rest of the Fellowship couldn't go unnoticed by winged spies of Sauron so the secrecy would have been lost.

Last but not least, the Eagles were Maiar, but it was up to the characters of M-E to deal with the problems of M-E (Olorin and other Istari were only sent as guides), so I don't think the use of Eagle's power was allowed, at least before all other options failed.

As a side note, the Eagles being Maiar, the Nasgul and their winged steeds didn't stand a chance in battle with them, nor could Eagles be slained by arrows.

[HLGStrider]

That would make the battle even better... Maia eagles vs. Nazguls!!!