The Noldor - exiled by will or necessity?

[Sharkey]

What do you think...were the Noldor exiled by will or by necessity/force? Or was it a combination of both?

If the Silmarils had never been stolen, do you think they would had been content with living in Aman?

Discuss.

[Lhunithiliel]

Nice topic!

And one suitable for my "What if?"-game, too!

But on the subject. At the start I will only say that thinking of it all, I believe that sooner or later there would have been a process of immigration from Aman to ME.

From that initial number 144 (where the h*** can I find this chapter?!) the Elves population had grown it seems to quite a large state. And Aman was just an island. With all their skills and with that typical for them (especially for the Noldor) desire to achieve new aims and to create new things and to explore new horizons... I am sure this would have happened one way or another.
The rape of the Silmarils unfortunately made it have a negative meaning and consequences.

I wonder.... would the Valar willingly have aided the Quendi in their immigration back to ME if it had been a peaceful process?

[Sharkey]

Lhun, I agree. I cannot possibly imagine the Noldor staying in Aman forever. It is just not in their "fiery" nature. We know that Galadriel, Fingon and Finrod were eager to adventure to Middle Earth and I daresay they would want to go there even if the rape of the Silmarils hadn't occured. I also think that the majority of the Noldorin people felt the same way.

So what was it? Their own will or necessity? I'd say that at the moment of their departure it was more of a necessity than their own will. But a necessity for what? Revenge? Regaining the Silmarils?

And what if they stayed in Aman - what would Melkor have done with the Silmarils and no resistance?

[Nóm]

I think it was necessary for the war against Morgoth.

Maybe much of the Noldor would have returned to Middle-earth if not for the silmarils and Finwe's death. It was after Melkor went among the Noldor that they started to envision realms that they could have ruled and began to question the motives of the Valar. It was after these ideas were conjured up by Melkor but even before the loss of the silmarils and Finwe that Feanor began to speak openly against the Valar and Noldor grew proud.

Would the Noldor have left Aman if not for the release of Melkor?

[Sharkey]

by Nóm
It was after Melkor went among the Noldor that they started to envision realms that they could have ruled and began to question the motives of the Valar.

I don't think Melkor had much to do with these visions of free lands. They were part of the adventurous Noldorin spirit I think, to test their skills upon Middle Earth without the supervision of the Valar.

[Nóm]

Originally posted by ithrynluin
I don't think Melkor had much to do with these visions of free lands. They were part of the adventurous Noldorin spirit I think, to test their skills upon Middle Earth without the supervision of the Valar.

From the Sil, Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor

Ever Melkor found some ears that would heed him, and some tongues that would enlarge what they had heard; and his lies passed from friend to friend, as secrets of which the knowledge proves the teller wise. Bitterly did the Noldor atone for the folly of their open ears in the days that followed after.

When he saw that many leaned towards him. Melkor would often walk among them, and amid his fair words others were woven, so subtly that many who heard them believed in recollection that they arose from their own thought. Visions he would conjure in their hearts of the mighty realms that they could have ruled at their own will...

What indication is there that the Noldor had such thoughts before the release of Melkor?

[Sharkey]

From Unfinished Tales: The History of Galadriel and Celeborn
Galadriel was born in the bliss of Valinor, but it was not long, in the reckoning of the Blessed Realm, before that was dimmed; and thereafter she had no peace within. For in that testing time amid the strife of the Noldor she was drawn this way and that. She was proud, strong, and selfwilled, as were all the descendants of Finwë save Finarfin; and like her brother Finrod, of all her kin the nearest to her heart, she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage.

This is a pretty general description of Galadriel's character. I don't see any association with Melkor here. This is what many Noldor were like. Melkor might have just speeded the process up a little bit.

[Nóm]

Originally posted by ithrynluin
This is a pretty general description of Galadriel's character. I don't see any association with Melkor here. This is what many Noldor were like. Melkor might have just speeded the process up a little bit.

Well I haven't read that in UT, but based on the portion you have quoted it sounds to me as though that came to be after Melkor's release.

"Galadriel was born in the bliss of Valinor, but it was not long, in the reckoning of the Blessed Realm, before that was dimmed; and thereafter she had no peace within. "

[Sharkey]

Ah indeed! I only quoted the whole paragraph to provide some context. The first few sentences certainly have to do with Melkor.

She was proud, strong, and selfwilled, as were all the descendants of Finwë save Finarfin; and like her brother Finrod, of all her kin the nearest to her heart, she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage.

But this part is a description of their character in general. This is who she was. Her (and the rest of the Noldor's) characteristics did not change because of Melkor's lies, only their desire to go to Middle Earth surfaced sooner and quicker. I stand by what I said.

[Goldberry]

Although the Noldor were immortal, they still displayed many human qualities. I don't think humans are ever content in paradise. They'll always do something to ruin it.

I agree that the Noldor would have left Valinor with or without Melkor. They were very proud and very strong-willed. Otherwise, Melkor's words would have had no effect on them. He was just the catalyst that made them go.

[Nóm]

Goldberry, welcome to the guild! It's good to have you join us.

I also think the Noldor were most like men, and least content in the elvish paradise.

It is said that the Vanyar held Melkor in suspicion, for they dwelt in the light of the trees and were content, whereas Melkor gave small heed to the Teleri thinking they didn't have enough to offer him, but the Noldor were open to him and delighted in the knowledge gained from him.

This gives me the impression that if the Noldor had been content, they would have held Melkor in suspicion as did the Vanyar. Were the Vanyar content only because they lived nearer the trees? I don't think so, but the wording can suggest that, depending upon how it's read. We know that they were content to dwell in that light while the Noldor were not and wishing to see the stars again ended up in Tirion.
So the wording may instead suggest that the Vanyar were content as is evident by their dwelling in the treelight, rather than that the treelight dwelling made them content.
It is my belief that it was both of these things; being more content the Vanyar wished to dwell in the light, and being it that light furthered their contentment.

I am not sure that the Noldor would eventually have returned to Middle-earth, but I think it is most likely.

As far as pride being a part of their character, we do have this:

High princes were Feanor and Fingolfin, the elder sons of Finwe, honoured by all in Aman; but now they grew proud and jealous each of his rights and his possessions. Then Melkor set new lies abroad...

and then...

And when Melkor saw that these lies were smouldering, and that pride and anger were awake among the Noldor, he spoke to them concerning weapons...

Maybe this pride would have come out eventually because of something else. I don't know what would have brought out this kind of pride or anger, and especially a distrust of the Valar, if not for Melkor, but I suspect Feanor would have been at the heart of it.

Now since I think it was necessery that the Noldor return to Middle-earth to fight against Morgoth, I can not imagine what necessity there would have been if not for Melkor's release. It could be the meeting with men, the Noldor were faster in friendship with men than were the Sindar. But I believe the release of Melkor, the making of the silmarils, the darkening of Valinor, and the Flight of the Noldor were doomed.

I also think that it was the different character of the kindreds which caused Manwe and Varda to love more the Vanyar and Aule more the Noldor. But I think that the character of these kindreds was further changed by the guidence they recieved from the Valar who most delighted in them. So I would say that the characteristics of the Kindreds were both the cause of and the result of the love and friendship of the
Vala(r) to whom they were most beloved.

Another thing that I think caused something that in turn effected that cause to increase, is the Noldor's relationship with Melkor in Aman.
Melkor's lies and deceptions enhanced those characteristics of the Noldor that drew him to them.

[Lantarion]

Originally posted by Nóm
Maybe this pride would have come out eventually because of something else. I don't know what would have brought out this kind of pride or anger, and especially a distrust of the Valar, if not for Melkor, but I suspect Feanor would have been at the heart of it.

Now since I think it was necessery that the Noldor return to Middle-earth to fight against Morgoth, I can not imagine what necessity there would have been if not for Melkor's release.

I agree that Melkor was the only reason for the exile of the Noldor. Perhaps the Noldor were proud or non-receptive to governance (i.e. of the Valar) from the beginning, but without Melkor's influence they would have either stayed in Aman for ever, or would have begged leave of the Valar to explore Middle-earth. Because as the 'messenger of Manwë' says to Fëanor as he is leaving Valinor:

"Against the folly of Fëanor shall be set my counsel only. Go not forth! For the hour is evil, and your road leads to sorrow that ye do not foresee. No aid will the Valar lend you in this quest; but neither will they hinder you; for this ye shall know: as ye came hither freely, freely shall ye depart. But thou Fëanor Finwë's son, by thine oath art exiled..."

They were not prisoners in Aman, and I have no doubt that had matters been less evil the Valar would have even ferried them to Middle-earth, if the Eldar had wished it, and had Melkor not ever come among them.

[Nóm]

I agree that Melkor was the only reason for the exile of the Noldor.

Maybe I worded things poorly. I do not thinkwar against Morgoth was the only necessity, just the primary one. The contact that men had with the Calaquendi, and the unions of the races were also necessary. No less necessary perhaps... but I say Morgoth was the primary because I think it was the effects of this that caused the others to be necessities. That if not for Morgoth's return to Middle-earth, men may have been such that they did not need this contact with the Noldor.

[Lantarion]

Well yes: what I meant was that had it not ben for Morgoth the Noldor probably wouldn't have been exiled at all.

[gate7ole]

From Letter #131

The doom of the Elves is to be immortal, to love the beauty of the world, to bring it to full flower with their gifts of delicacy and perfection, to last while it lasts, never leaving it even when 'slain', but returning – and yet, when the Followers come, to teach them, and make way for them, to 'fade'

It is intriguing to think how the Elves would have taught Men, if the Noldor hadn’t returned to the Middle Lands. Someone might argue that the Sindar would play this part, but certainly it would not be the same; the knowledge of the Valar would not pass from the Calaquendi to the Edain.
So, was it also a part of Eru’s plan? Of course, we again mix with the difficult topic of free will and a preordained future. But still, I can see that the return of the Noldor was in a way a “return” to the plan of Eru that they would be the teachers to the Followers, plan which seemed to have diverged by the coming of the Elves to Valinor.

Anyway, to answer the question of the thread, it was neither just will not just necessity. As it is always the case, the middle is the answer. The Noldor would not have been “forced” to abandon Valinor for Middle-Earth, by anyone or any necessity. And on the other hand, the will is always “enforced” by necessities or situations. The exact moment that the Noldor flied back to the Middle Lands combined both their will to dominate other lands, as well as the necessity to revenge Morgoth.
And to answer the “what-if” part of the question, if Morgoth hadn’t stolen the Silmarils, there would be soon another cause for the Noldor to flee. Morgoth just played his part in the unfolding of Eru’s plan.