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  • I thought I'd move this convo, just to prevent it getting too off topic!
    It is harder, but I completely forgot how to play it at all! I guess you have got the advantage of more experience, though. Do you still play in a band, or do you just play for fun?
    The idea works better than my Halley's Comet one, since people would get to read about another favorite old character. :rolleyes: Makes sense, to myself. Add an illusion crafter to his list of minions, just to be safe. I'm still working on who the hero is. Haven't forgotten.
    Hm? Ah, greetings. I was just thinking about asking you when I should be showing up at some Renaissance Festival type thing. You mentioned the middle of the month. Mayhaps I missed it already. Anyways, yes, you should have.:rolleyes: I gots to hammer all kinds of details about this story, and real life is best.
    Once I got through the first season of Next Gen, I was hooked. And I loved Brent Spiner's versatility as Data/Lore. What fun that must have been. And yes, I remember that episode pretty well, though my favourites were "Lal" and "All Good Things". The spinoffs were, eh, so-so and I couldn't abide the reincarantion of Kirk that was Janeway. Nope, give me Q and Lwaxanna any day!
    Huh. I hadn't noticed that. Yay me, for having such a cool avatar! To answer your question, though ---> I don't know. I didn't make the avatar. I have very little knowledge in that realm, and the person who made it for me hasn't been seen in years. *closes eyes as if concentrating, that he might quell any nervous eye darts* Ask someone else with an avatar that does that, if you haven't already. *glances to the right* Ah! The Barliman Butterbur person is one such person! *runs away*
    :eek: Did you happen to see my avatar? Oh indeed I am! I had always loved the Trek growing up, but when The Next Generation came out; I was completely consumed. I loved the other spin offs as well, but in my opinion, nothing compared to Picard and crew (though Kirk and Spock are a very close second). I’m sure you have seen it, as I’m sure you are familiar with most of the episodes; but there is a real gem called “The Inner Light” with Picard and crew that is just incredible; and is a five star must see. (Picard lives an entire alternate lifetime within the span of 25 minutes). Better than 99.999% of any big budget “big screen” I’ve ever seen :).
    Hehe...loved your little Trek parody in the Motivationish thread. Are you perchance a Trekker like myself?!
    Yes, but I am still thinking. We are just playing around with a foundation; which has to be firmly established before a story can move forward. I want this to be good, and I don’t intend to be hasty. I am exploring many ideas at the moment; and when a design becomes suitable, I’ll go with it. Right now I am still in thought.
    Hmmm. Now that’s an idea I had not considered; and a good one. To take an actual astronomical event or phenomenon and incorporate that into the story...akin to Earendil.....:D.......let me ponder this for a little bit.
    And on to the telling of the story! From what viewpoint will it be told? I love the first person thing, but mayhaps no. Who is the main character? Or will the view be pulled back so much that we mostly have large movements going on? Turin elfbane can't be that big of a character, can he? He'd be showing up at the last second with a wave of awesome music. Or mayhaps Music, too. Unless some of the story is told from within the observatories in the Halls of Eru or something. Another idea that could be incorporated was my old one of the ship that is Halley's Comet. In the original story, its light was the silmaril that had been retrieved from the sea, and it was filled with a bunch of my more adventurous characters, who had explored Arda enough and wanted to check out the Void, although they did get homesick via a schedule. But it doesn't have to be a silmaril. And they could even be a mayhaps unwitting help to Mel, since they'd have to be let in through the Doors Of Night for anyone to see their light, as far as I know.
    Never mind, I found it:

    Since Eru obviously foreknew the rise of evil and the harvest of suffering that it would produce, He opted to allow Melkor and evil to exist for thousands of years to benefit Elves and Men; and the Valar as well . The long drawn-out drama of evil and it’s consequences played out and experienced first hand over many millennia would give the Elves, Men, and Ainur an intimate and detailed understanding of good and evil (along with the long term repercussions); which in turn (hopefully) should prevent the rise of a rebellion, like that of Melkor a second time after Ea and Arda have passed away. A world of "freewill" coexisting in harmony with a world that is "evil-free" is indeed a conundrum; yet it is entirely possible (at least maybe in our tale) that it is Eru’s long term goal when all is said and done. And....:p, I wouldn’t exactly call that a happy ending….more like; "Do you get it now?"

    Well,if this is truly how Eru was portrayed in the Sil, then Tolkien did not follow the Bible on this account at all.
    Well, no…so far we have just been mulling over the basics. This is just to provide a credible, convincing mythology (consistent with what little of the prophecy has been given concerning the “Dagor Dagorath"). I think (since quite a bit of information has been discussed) you have to read what has been said between Yay and I thoroughly. If you understand the prophecy of final battle, and have read what Yay and I have discussed…maybe you could join us and supply some input. That would be welcomed :).
    Hi! I have been commanded to read this profile before just so that I can get into the action of what you and Yay have been brainstorming about. I must admit, I'm very confused. But he's very interested in this so I want to understand it more. I think he's been concocting this plotline. Can you give me a gist of what you two have basically disgussed?
    Perhaps; but it seems that within Tolkien’s universe, parallels were commonplace. Arien; not being corrupted by Melkor; was a spirit of fire (obviously Maia; an uncorrupted Balrog). Sauron being the Maia apprentice under Aule was a master craftsman; Manwe had the Eagles; Yavanna had the Shepherds of the Trees (simply put two and two together). It seems overtly obvious that Ungoliant; taking the form of a great, dark spider would be logical for a corrupted Maia that once served The Weaver :rolleyes:.
    Argh! Huh. Why had I never connected Vaire and Ungoliant? But oh well. If I didn't just think of the superly cool Ungoliant as just another unique thing (since there are so many possibilities, and not all things need be related to others), I usually thought of her as a Varda type of thing. Varda was all about beauty, Ungoliant was all about hideousness. Varda was all about light, Ungoliant ate light and made a creepy and magical darkness. Mel had a high school crush on Varda and was reluctant to work with Ungoliant, since he wasn't as evil at first. She might also have been an Ainur related to the Void, though, which is an idea that I have for another R. P. G. character. Producing nothingness and all of that.
    Well, I wish I didn’t have to hit the rack :(. Some really good stuff you have just sent me. Before I check out here, I will briefly mention that although I think what you have said is not simply playing “The Devil’s Advocate” (because of the genuine, in-depth, thought provoking ideas…albeit rooting for the dark side just a bit), I must indeed point out that I am certain Melkor already most definitely made use of “Vaire’s tapestry”. I believe Ungoliant was to Vaire as Sauron and Saruman were to Aule (i.e. corrupted Maiar learned in their craft). A Valar (Vaire) can weave time and history, and her apprentice (Spider-women) can attempt to weave …well anything to satisfy the tummy. It seems obvious that Melkor didn’t pass that opportunity up early on. But indeed, to be continued. I want to address some of your ideas when I am actually conscious. I’m dozing off in the chair again; but have some things to share concerning this.
    Got it.

    Anyways, Mel's motivations:

    They toss him into the Void. Yes, he's angry, but he's also plenty intelligent and patient. Why wouldn't he be out there, recruiting new Ainur? Sure, these were the ones with little interest in the world, and sure, plenty of them would know of his reputation, but you saw how, after only a bit in Mandos' halls, he convinced them to let him out.

    And about that stay, I keep wondering what he must have learned. There weren't any dead elves yet, at least according to most versions of the story, but there is the question about what happens to Orcs. They have the spirits of elves. It seems unlikely that none of them would have died before or after they were turned into Orcs. Nienna is all about crying and consoling the spirits. A big job of hers could have been reforming Orcish spirits. Maybe he learned a thing or two about calling them there, since he was always catching the spirits that didn't immediately head for Mandos.

    And how could he have passed up a corruption of Vaire's tapestry? She's back there, weaving all of history. Couldn't he have made some suggestion that ends up helping him in some way? A subliminal message in the border that instructs newly rebodied spirits to quack like a duck whenever they hear a phone ring? Probably something more helpful.

    Anyways, if he had some plans laid, he wouldn't be too stressed, and he'd be distracted by recruiting, either way. He's looked for the Imperishable Flame before and either learned his lesson or decided that it was a waste of time. He wants revenge, but it would have to be, of course, cold. He knows that he's not a match for the Valar types anymore. There doesn't seem to be a way to drain power from others. Hm. Wait a minute. I just got a vision of Melkor, after the battle looks hopeless for him, taking existence (or at least the bits with his spirit in them) and becoming a giant Unicron-esque bad guy for Turin elfbane and friends to whittle away at. :D

    His deeper motivation is just vanity. He's supposed to be the greatest. The only ones to praise him just wanted power. He is the spirit of creativity. Nobody ever even tried to persuade him to follow any paths besides the ones they chased him down, even though he constantly showed them how easy it was to manipulate others. He should have been the one in charge. Manwe was idiotic. The Valar were worshiped by the elves, but he became their friend.

    Feanor was a wrench, in more ways than one. Mel had always had free reign to put his own spin on everything. Feanor wouldn't let him hold the Silmarils even when he, the greatest, asked nicely. Nothing for it but to take the things and, in the bargain, show everyone how justified annoyance can be when denied beauty. Hm. Come to think of it, with Feanor being stuck in the Halls Of Mandos for so long, he would have been able to decipher any subliminal messages that Mel put into Vaire's tapestry. oh well.

    Ah, I have rambled. With everyone's utter failure to recognize greatness, his only course is to force them into it. Quite logical. Some humans were good at it. Humans were supposed to be the most like him, but, for some reason, Ainur seem to be a lot more interested in elves. Saruman was different, and Sauron was very indiscriminating. But Mel was a bit obsessed. Humans were just tools or entertainment. One reason for why the battle would mostly be in Valinor. He'd want to sneakily neutralize the Valar, declare his Dark Lordship again, get the praise that he is due.
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