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A humble translation request

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Agba

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Good morning mates,

as time goes by, i recently made the desicion to prpose to my girlfriend.
She has a passion for music and lord of the rings.
Whith the proposel, id like to hand her, some lines and sentences, which really matter to her, and which i collected over the years.


I know, for the fist post, its not quite nice to ask for such a thing in this forum. But this really matters to me and id like to ask kindly if there is some expert who could translate this.
Sindarin or Quena, both are fine


If these were the last beats
Of your heart dance to them.
Look inside your heart
And get through the night
Feel the thunder rise inside
It's time for the fire to reignite.
You´ve got the thunder running through your veins
It feels like a hurricane.
 

Elaran

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I don't think that these can be relayed properly in Quenya, let alone Sindarin, hence my lack of replies on Reddit. If you end up finding help elsewhere, be very suspicious of its accuracy.
 

Agba

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a freindly girl gave me this translation. Ill post it, as you asked out fo curiosity.

"I've got it!
Ai hin na cín métima palelwer
O cín elwen lilta na hin
Thír min cín elwen
A koi trí i dú
Felmë i gerund eri min
Hin lúmincë na i nár na enheria
Cín kép i gerund cel trí cín celusercë
Hin felmë sui er gaer polalagos"
 

Elaran

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I did not ask anything. I said that whoever will help you will be wrong. What you have is beyond wrong. It is not even Elvish! It literally says "gerund" (English word) in some lines. It is so bad that, if I was an admin in this forum, I would have hidden it so that it could not mislead people with its countless problems.
 

Galin

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Agba

Perhaps your girlfriend might like the English transcribed into Elvish writing -- in my opinion that's a "marriage" (of some measure) of the two things you're after. Not that you'll necessarily get an arguably correct transcription from "friendly person on internet", but anyway, in other words, the English can look like the sample text on this page (see the bottom of the linked page):


Galin Endorfin

Edit: Do you see what I did with "marriage" there? Dim Galin would never have thought of that!
 
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Arquen

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I came up with a Neo-Quenya translation. All the words I used can be found on Parf Edhellen, except for few, which I discuss below. I hope it's not too wrong or loose or non-corresponding to what we know about Neo-Quenya.

If these were the last beats
---Cé sina nauva i métima *palpalë
---If this was the last beating
Of your heart dance to them.
---Hónetyo, á lilta...
---Of your heart, dance... (I don’t think we know what preposition or case goes with "lilta-" when we want to express "dance to something",)
Look inside your heart
---Á cenë tirë óretyanna
---Look inside your heart
And get through the night
---Ar á lanya i lómë
--- And cross the night
Feel the thunder rise inside
---Á cetta felë raumo orya *mityë
---Witness Feel the storm-noise rise inside you
It's time for the fire to reignite.
---I nárë atanartuvaina sí.
---The fire shall be rekindled now.
You´ve got the thunder running through your veins
---Óretya quanta raumo
---Your heart is full of storm-noise
It feels like a hurricane.
---Nemë vë hwinwaiwa
---It seems like a whirlwind (the closest I could get to "hurricane" with existing words)

*Palpalë - from "palpa-", meaning "to beat", by adding a suffix "-lë". Cf. nurtalë (hiding), hantalë (thanksgiving), lindalë (music)
Cetta- - "to witness", neologism from Eldamo, suggested by Helge Fauskanger
*Mityë - "milyë" is attested as "in you“, I simply used the familiar form
Hwinwaiwa - "whirlwind", neologism from Eldamo, suggested by Tamas Ferencz

And about using two different words to refer to "heart":
Hón - physical heart. Made more sense to use this word, when "beating" is mentioned
Órë - heart as in "inner mind". Made more sense to use this word, when "looking inside" is mentioned

EDIT: corrected the mistakes that have been pointed out below.
 
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Elaran

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Very nice translation, can't get much better than this. It has some "nitpickable" bits, but they are trivial at best. Though I would most certainly have used #fel- over *cetta- there. And rather Á tirë óretyassë.
 

Atwe

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A very good effort indeed. My only gripe is with the first line, where you translate "if these were" as ké sina né". This is a literal translation. In English the past tense form serves as a subjunctive after "if" to express the hypothetical situation. Quenya uses the future form instead: ké sina nauva...
 

Arquen

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Thank you very much for your appreciation, both of you, Elaran and Atwe.

Yes, I completely forgot that the word tir- exists. Much better than cen- indeed.

As for cetta-, when I searched for "feel" on elfdict, the word fel- didn't come up, so that's why I used cetta- instead.

The use of locative in óretyassë is very interesting. I thought that analogically to motion, "looking into somewhere" would also ask for the allative. So it's not the case in this context?

And the conditional often eludes me even in English (not my first language), so thank you for clarification.

EDIT: Have you any idea how to express "dance to something"?
 

Atwe

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For what it's worth, to me tir- requires either an object of a direction, so óretyanna looks OK to me.
"Dance to something" is probably idiomatic; in my native language for instance, we say "dance onto something".
 

Elaran

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I would say that tir- itself has the "direction". Meaning that I read it as "to look at" instead of simply "to look". Either way, I am not sure if -nna fits because to me it says "upon" rather than "inside", hence my suggestion. But I lack as firm a grasp as that of Atwe on the intricacies of Quenya, since my area of expertise is rather Sindarin and the ancestral forms like Eldarin (and the historical phonetic development rules).
 

Atwe

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Allative as a case can variably mean "to, towards, onto, upon, into, as far as" depending on context (see Paul's article on the case on Aglardh); if one wants to be specific it's best to use a preposition with a specific meaning, like min(n)a.
 

Galin

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Yikes. I forgot about Atwe joining here in 2018!

We are brimming with Elvish scholars here Agba -- not me, but I recognize names from my years of wandering silently through Tolkien-based linguistic forums and websites and whatnot. I realize it's difficult (to put it mildly) for folk new to Tolkien's languages to know who to trust, but in any case you've come to "a right place at a right time" so to speak.

Are you there :)

[taps computer screen]
 

Elhath

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This thread is, IMO, a rather heartwarming example of where an attempt to discourage other people's assistance with an issue (linguistic or otherwise) both should and does lead to.
 

Elaran

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I am not quite sure on what is meant with that, though I fail to see any discouragement of assistance. Rather a suggestion of suspicion towards assistance (evidently necessary due to the poor attempt), and then an acknowledgement of a successful translation. In any case, we seem to be in agreement that it all led to good.
 

Elhath

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It is also a mature sign of non-bulliability that people show themselves to be sharp enough to spot and treat appropriately things such as attempts (subtle or nonsubtle) to posture as a towering solo-authority on something — wherever they may come across such hypotheticality! 😊
 
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Elaran

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Quite a non sequitur comment, if indeed it concerns a hypotheticality, but sadly the matter is rather clear. It appears that my past attempt to reconcile our misunderstanding bore no fruit, so I should try again in private here. But thanks to your new comment, I can now see what you originally meant.

You were expressing your joy towards the arrival of a proper translation, because it disproved(?) my suggesting otherwise, which must have been this "hypothetical posturing" to which you refer. Well, we have a slight problem there; I simply said "I don't think that these can be relayed properly in Quenya [...]", and I can say the same again. Because I do believe that, for example, "get through the night" is not properly relayed by saying "cross the night" in Quenya (but that doesn't mean that it is a bad translation). That such a simple statement is viewed as posturing is not really my doing.
 

Galin

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Agba, just to add to my earlier suggestion, if you go to


. . . and if you learn how to write English with Elvish letters (if you do not already know how, that is), your wife-to-be might appreciate your effort
if not your possible mistakes.
Or she might get mad at you -- in her possible opinion -- for wasting your time. I don't know.

It's still just an option, and in no way a negative comment on the Quenya here, or the opinions of the Elvish scholars in this thread.

[signed in Ando's blood]

Galin

Breaker of Chains, the Unbanned (for now), the Repetitionist, Lord of Bear-poking, The Jackass of Jabberwalk, The Annoyer, and The Decider
(when my wife is away)
 
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Elhath

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Quite a non sequitur comment, if indeed it concerns a hypotheticality.
One must trust that people who read e.g. this page from the top down are perfectly capable of evaluating the truth in that matter — and the justifiability of my first observation — by themselves.

You were expressing your joy towards the arrival of a proper translation, because it disproved(?) my suggesting otherwise.
Planting-attempt of strawman detected. (And a rather egotistical one at that, I must say. :D)

... No, I was not.

Neither me, nor (I should hope) other adults online are here to spend our limited free hours to sniff out opportunities to rejoice from any individual's minor trippings!

That being said, you can, however, rest assured that any antics with similar mentality and non-constructiveness as your "whoever will help you will be wrong" will be called out in the future as well.
 
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