🧙 The Tolkien Forum 🧝

Welcome to our forum! Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox! Plus you won't see ads ;)

A Purist's Review: Yes I've finally seen it! All welcome!

Thorin

LOTR Purist to the end
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
1,402
Reaction score
15
Okay, first off let me say that it was an okay movie. Some of the things that I was worried about did not bother me so much. Others that I didn't have an issue with truly peeved me. Here goes!

Characters in General: Though it is difficult to establish deep character development to the extent that Tolkien did, I felt PJ really fell flat in Aragorn. Half the nonsense he spent at Orthanc (I'll get to that in a minute!) Could have been better used at Bree to develop Aragorn better. For one of the most important characters, he was most poorly developed. Gandalf didn't bother me as much as I thought. Overall, Ian did a good job with what was given to him. Ian Holm did a good job of Bilbo. Elrond and Galadriel bit the big one and I'll get to that in a second. Legolas, Boromir and Gimli were good. The hobbits were made out to be more like baggage then any useful characters. Make no mistake, I was nearly dying trying to live through the Arwen at the Ford scenes. That was too much to take. "Hang on Frodo!" "I've never seen a Ranger caught unaware." Sorry FADs or NLDs, that was just too bad. And Saruman....oh my, we'll get to that in a minute.

Moria: Moria satisfied me quite well (except for the cheesy cave troll and extended battle with him). The Balrog looked good, but was a bit too large. Tolkien said that the Balrogs stood about 14 feet high.

Rivendell: Rivendell as a place looked good. Elrond's character and the actor who played him were downright disappointing. Elrond was so flat and gloomy and the council of Elrond was a HUGE bomb. Once again, the time wasted at Orthanc (I'm getting to that) could have been better spent there.

Lorien: Though the gloomy-ness of Lorien bothered me, I was most perturbed by the evil/slow-mo, poor portrayal of Cate Blanchett. Her character was so poorly done, I don't even know why PJ stuck her in there. Almost as sad as Aragorn.

Emyn Muil/Amon Hen: Despite the "Frodo meets Aragorn on the hill and Aragorn lets him go" scene which was totally against the spirit of Frodo's decision, I was quite pleasantly suprised with it all. Boromir was great and lived up to how I imagined it all to be. (I ignored the Lurtz thing and just imagined him as some wayward orc)

Saruman and Orthanc: Okay, where do I begin. Let's just say that out of all the changes (Yes, even Arwen). Saruman was the HUGEST travesty of his character! All the time wasted on Orthanc and Saruman with pathetic orc scenes, the cheesy wizard fight and idiot telepathic dialogue between Gandalf and Saruman could have been put to better use in other areas of the movie. Saruman bringing Caradhras down on the Fellowship?? Saruman in league with Sauron?? The dark Lord's crony?? His character was the worst portrayed in the movie and I am ashamed of Christopher Lee as a Tolkien fan to allow himself to act it (though I'm sure he didn't have much say). Pathetic, pathetic!

My wife just finished reading FotR today for the first time (I told her she couldn't see the movie until she did. And she was bitterly disappointed with the movie because of the liberties and unnecessary changes and lack of character development. Here is someone who liked the story and has not internalized it as much as us purists and despised the changes in the show. Being an English major I guess she recognizes the sacredness of the written word! So just remember that movie lovers! Heh, heh.

Overall Diagnosis: Moria, Emyn Muil, Shire and Bilbo's party : GOOD
Elrond, Arwen, Galadriel, Bree, Orthanc and Saruman : BAD
Weathertop, Trip from Shire to Bree, Character Development: POOR
 
Last edited:

Foe-Hammer

Registered User
Joined
Dec 20, 2001
Messages
985
Reaction score
0
Suprise, suprise, suprise......

(Rude remark removed by foe-hammer)

Where to start.....

Characters in General: Though it is difficult to establish deep character development to the extent that Tolkien did, I felt PJ really fell flat in Aragorn. Half the nonsense he spent at Orthanc (I'll get to that in a minute!) Could have been better used at Bree to develop Aragorn better. For one of the most important characters, he was most poorly developed.
There's plenty of time for Aragorn to develope over the next two movies.

Overall, Ian did a good job with what was given to him. Ian Holm did a good job of Bilbo.
Agreed

Agreed

The hobbits were made out to be more like baggage then any useful characters.
Baggage that laughs, crys, causes the wisest characters to change their plans, etc.?

Make no mistake, I was nearly dying trying to live through the Arwen at the Ford scenes. That was too much to take. "Hang on Frodo!"
I'm sure that every elf in Rivendale was hopeing the little weenie would become a wraith?

"I've never seen a Ranger caught unaware."
If anyone could sneak up on a Ranger, it'd be an elf.

The Balrog looked good, but was a bit too large. Tolkien said that the Balrogs stood about 14 feet high.
Did you get out your measuring stick? Can you say nit-picking?

Rivendell: Rivendell as a place looked good.
Agreed

Elrond's character and the actor who played him were downright disappointing. Elrond was so flat and gloomy and the council of Elrond was a HUGE bomb.
I always thought the guy from matrix reminded me of an elf.

Once again, the time wasted at Orthanc (I'm getting to that) could have been better spent there.
patiently waiting....

Lorien: Though the gloomy-ness of Lorien bothered me, I was most perturbed by the evil/slow-mo, poor portrayal of Cate Blanchett. Her character was so poorly done, I don't even know why PJ stuck her in there. Almost as sad as Aragorn.
She always reminded me of an elf too.

Emyn Muil/Amon Hen: Despite the "Frodo meets Aragorn on the hill and Aragorn lets him go" scene which was totally against the spirit of Frodo's decision,
Try re-reading that part of The Breaking of the Fellowship. You missed it.

I was quite pleasantly suprised with it all. Boromir was great and lived up to how I imagined it all to be.
I wasn't suprised in the least.

(I ignored the Lurtz thing and just imagined him as some wayward orc)
You should have done the same thing with 90% of your complaints.

Saruman and Orthanc: Okay, where do I begin. Let's just say that out of all the changes (Yes, even Arwen). Saruman was the HUGEST travesty of his character! All the time wasted on Orthanc and Saruman with pathetic orc scenes, the cheesy wizard fight and idiot telepathic dialogue between Gandalf and Saruman could have been put to better use in other areas of the movie.
Oh, I thought you were going to enlighten us with the specifics.

Saruman bringing Caradhras down on the Fellowship??
They knew that Sauron had great powers and many allies. Gandalf said that Sauron's arm had grown long. Meaning Saruman was an extension.
Next.

Saruman in league with Sauron?? The dark Lord's crony?? His character was the worst portrayed in the movie and I am ashamed of Christopher Lee as a Tolkien fan to allow himself to act it (though I'm sure he didn't have much say). Pathetic, pathetic!
Show me where is says that only Saruman could resist the power of Sauron. The book say exactly the opposite. Tolkien expected that the reader would know that Saruman was under Sauron's control to an extent. He still has the desire to get the ring. We know that if Saruman uses the ring that Sauron will eventually take it from him. Sauron HOPES that Saruman gets the ring, then he'll know where it's at.

Overall Diagnosis: Moria, Emyn Muil, Shire and Bilbo's party : GOOD
Elrond, Arwen, Galadriel, Bree, Orthanc and Saruman : BAD
Weathertop, Trip from Shire to Bree, Character Development: POOR
Overall diagnosis: I'm not surprised in the least.
 
Last edited:

Rhumatad

Registered User
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Location
Scotland
i just want to put in a few things.
i agree that galadriel was not well done.
i also agree that emyn muil, although changed, was a great scene in the movie. maybe i only liked it so much because i am a battle-loving martial arts enthusiast but i believe we can look forward to mind blowing battle scenes in the next two films.
 

Thorin

LOTR Purist to the end
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
1,402
Reaction score
15
Foe, I don't know which book you're reading, but in my Tolkien FoTR, it says that Frodo went straight to the river from Amon Hen without telling anyone because of the rings effects on those around it. He knew that Aragorn and the others would have followed him, and had every intention if Frodo decided to go to Mordor instead of Minas Tirith first...Oh, wait, that wasn't in the movie so you may not be aware of that..Sorry, read it, it's there. Don't sit there and tell me what Tolkien says when you don't seem to have any clue what it says.

You're ignorant and rude response towards my wife is duly ignored. Please put me on your ignore list because I would rather have some reasonable, respectful and intelligent responses to my posts, like Rhumatad's. You are a waste of my time.
 

Foe-Hammer

Registered User
Joined
Dec 20, 2001
Messages
985
Reaction score
0
Thorin

Well, if we had the same copy I could give you the page #. We were talking about Aragorn, not Frodo.

Start from the paragraph right after he takes off the ring when he's on Amon Hen. It starts with "Frodo rose to his feet...."
Start there and read through to where Boroimr reappears. You will see that Aragorn would go with Frodo, but doubt's they could force themselve's on him. It was still Frodo's choice, as it has always been. This is another reason why I don't agree that he was portrayed as a piece of luggage.

I apoligize for the remark about your wife. I will remove it immediatly.
 
J

Jaco

Guest
While it was a generally decent film, it was a poor representation of the book. Although i am suprised that no-one has mentioned Aragorn's final line

"Lets hunt some orc"

Still makes me cringe
 

Ancalagon

Quality, not Quantity!
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
1,786
Reaction score
10
I have to say, I thought that a great deal of Galadriels (Kate Blanchett) screen-time has been removed. This obviously means most of her overall presence has suffered as a result. The reason I say this is because I watched 'Elizabeth' this evening and realised what an absolutely tremendous actress she is, because of this, I feel that we have lost possibly one of the more credible performances to the cutting-room floor.
 

Greymantle

Registered User
Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
348
Reaction score
2
Location
San Francisco
Originally posted by Jaco
While it was a generally decent film, it was a poor representation of the book. Although i am suprised that no-one has mentioned Aragorn's final line

"Lets hunt some orc"

Still makes me cringe
Ick, why'd you have to remind me of that!? :rolleyes: That made me gag.

" 'Yes,' said Aragorn, 'we shall all need the endurance of Dwarves. But come! With hope or without hope we will follow the trail of our enemies. And woe to them, if we prove the swifter! We will make such a chase as shall be accounted a marvel among the Three Kindreds: Elves, Dwarves, and Men. Forth the Three Hunters!' " -TT, 22

Now, which do you prefer...
 
J

Jaco

Guest
Sorry.. It seemed the line that was the least Tolkien and most 'Hollywood' in the film. Oh.. and although people have said that loads of lines had been kept from the book they were placed out of context and in totally the wrong scenes
 

Foe-Hammer

Registered User
Joined
Dec 20, 2001
Messages
985
Reaction score
0
Everyone prefers the book....

But that doesn't work in a movie. It would come off as redundant, preachy, and contrived.

"Lets hunt some orc" works, if you allow for the difference in the mediums. (it will never be an "I'll be back" line)
 
J

Jaco

Guest
It does not work i feel. It is out of character. Lile the T-800 saying 'I shall return shortly'

The people of Middle Earth did not speak like that.

Can you imagine Russel Crowe in Gladiator saying things in a cheesy american way. No i imagine. Yet the language in that film worked perfectly. I feel the director and screeplay writers could at least respected the characters in middle spoke and not put that line to appeal to the lowest common de-nominator
 

Foe-Hammer

Registered User
Joined
Dec 20, 2001
Messages
985
Reaction score
0
Ok

I see what you mean. It didn't sound cheesy to me, but I am an american, so what do you expect? :)
 
J

Jaco

Guest
Sorry for any offence. By american i meant the epitome of american films that is hollywood. Generalising and stereotyping are generally bad things.

Most of the greatest Jazz musicians have been/are american so i don't think all americans are cheesy, but some are. same for every country wouldn't you say....?


By the way i am not patriotic in anyway..
 

Foe-Hammer

Registered User
Joined
Dec 20, 2001
Messages
985
Reaction score
0
No offence taken

I think you're right. A more middle earth dialect and words would have done better.

" Legolas! Gimli! Let us hunt these orc and exact a dear price upon thier heads!"

How's that?
 
J

Jaco

Guest
I would not be so hasty as to devise a new line so soon. I don't know what would have been better. Something paraphrased from the original line would have been better... but a valiant effort nonetheless;)
 

aragil

Just another loremaster
Joined
Aug 27, 2001
Messages
1,852
Reaction score
4
Location
Secondarily Beautiful State of Washington
Originally posted by Thorin

Lorien: Though the gloomy-ness of Lorien bothered me, I was most perturbed by the evil/slow-mo, poor portrayal of Cate Blanchett. Her character was so poorly done, I don't even know why PJ stuck her in there. Almost as sad as Aragorn.
I think the portrayal of the elves (except for Legolas) is one of the more interesting things in the movie. After reading the books I immediately fell in love with them, considering them to be the most noble people I'd ever heard of. In fact, I remember telling my school matest that Santa had DWARVES with him up north, that elves were in fact tall and beautiful and not so much given to toy-making. But humans in the books (esp. Eomer and Boromir) were very mistrustful of them, at least before meeting them. I think the portrayal of Galadriel (and Elrond) were portrayed to reflect this. They are a little cold, a little aloof, a little other-worldly, and a little scary. They act a little differently than the same characters in the book, but they also give an indication as to why mortals might be fearful fo them.
 

Bucky

Registered User
Joined
Dec 20, 2001
Messages
1,623
Reaction score
12
Location
Near New Haven
>>>I'd bet a million dollars that tolkien would be more ashamed of you than
the interpretation of his book.

I thought Tolkien was just concerned about 'respect for living authors'.......

On 'Let's hunt some orc', reminds me of saying "The batter has 100 RBI".

I know one person, who hasn't seen the film, who said "If I see one more commercial with another anorexic elf-maiden, I'll puke".
I kinda thought Kim Bassinger would've made a good Galadriel.
Or Pamala Anderson.
Just kidding on Pam.
On 2nd thought.......

Please excuse my ignorance, I'm just asking, not commemting: Where does Tolkien say that Balrogs are about 14 feet tall?
I've read TLOTR, Silmarillion & Unfinished Tales numerous times, & I don't ever recall that.
 

Eonwe

Upper Class Twit
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Messages
543
Reaction score
1
I just remember seeing the part after they leave Moria and Sam is slow motion crying...

I started laughing out loud because that is what I felt like doing about the movie.

Too much visual (like Sam slowly drowning with one hand up) and not enough dialog which could have easily been taken from the book. How about when they left Balin's tomb and Gandalf tried to hold the door shut with a spell and the balrog touched the door handle on the other side... boom

I liked Saruman but way too much time on him, I hated the Council of Elrond what a joke, I hated when they left Moria and Aragorn didn't say "if you pass the doors of Moria beware!" because he knew about the balrog ahead of time

I thought too little time on Lorien, too much time with Frodo and Sam and the boats, Borimor was great, Bree sucked, etc... sorry but I was really disappointed. I will see the other two movies.
 

Thorin

LOTR Purist to the end
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
1,402
Reaction score
15
Originally posted by Bucky
[BPlease excuse my ignorance, I'm just asking, not commemting: Where does Tolkien say that Balrogs are about 14 feet tall?
I've read TLOTR, Silmarillion & Unfinished Tales numerous times, & I don't ever recall that. [/B]
It is in one of Christopher Tolkien's commentaries in the History of Middle Earth series (I think it is either "War of the Jewels, VOL XI" or "Book of Lost Tales 2 - VOL II" Probably the latter. When Tolkien talked about the elves fighting the Balrogs, it says that they were about twice their height. Christopher Tolkien places this at between 12-14 feet high considering that the average height of the elves were between 6-7 feet tall.
 

Thread suggestions

Top